The Grand Jury

[joeskidbeck]

Agreed. And they hate him for it.

Dave, can you imagine how much they hate us? You know they read these forums, it would be human nature to do so. They may even be members, who knows or just reading as guests. The thing is, I wonder how many of us have hit close to the truth? You know the R's would really be steamed at that!
Besides, even if they don't read here, their minions do, that's a fact. Or what is it KoldKase calls them? Shills. I'm sure their shills read here often.

 

[CathyR]

I agree 100%. I think those bigger undies were wrapped, and Patsy (or JR) fished them out to dress JB in and then lied, lied, lied when questioned about it. It's easy to lie when the person who would know you're lying is dead and can't contradict you.

I thought the R's found the panties later still in the package and then turned them over. Going through boxes of stuff they had packed from the Co home.

 

[DeeDee249]

I thought the R's found the panties later still in the package and then turned them over. Going through boxes of stuff they had packed from the Co home.

They found the REMAINING 6 pairs of panties (of a 7-pair set) still in the package and turned them over to their lawyer 5 years later. I guess that proved Patsy was lying when she told LE she had put those size 12 panties in JB's drawer.

 

[CathyR]

UK,why would you think that? It was JR's shirt fibers found in that area,and he would be more likely to have put the oversized underwear on her.But perhaps those fibers got there as her carried her to the basement,if she was not fully dressed at that time?? I kind of doubt that though..I think the most important factors here are that 1- JR's fibers are found in that region and 2-she was WIPED down (to remove dna evidence,IMO) and 3-CLEAN underwear replaced her MISSING size 6's,saying Wed. at that.That further removes any dna evidence of his.But IMO,that does not mean that JR killed her,but it implies a sexual assault on her by him sometime prior to her death that night.It could have been bf he went to bed,then he goes on up to bed,and Patsy comes in sometime later and something occurs then.Later he wipes her down and changes her underwear, to remove any trace of his prior assault.

I know this may sound weird but if JBR was wiped down and fibers from whatever was used are found? What is it. We know it is dark in color from report. Can this be tied to a washcloth in the house? A disposable item like baby wipe, paper towel, napkin, toilet paper, are all white or multi, never dark.

 

[DeeDee249]

I know this may sound weird but if JBR was wiped down and fibers from whatever was used are found? What is it. We know it is dark in color from report. Can this be tied to a washcloth in the house? A disposable item like baby wipe, paper towel, napkin, toilet paper, are all white or multi, never dark.

A dark blue terrycloth bathrobe belonging to JR was found in the den. Odd place for a bathrobe. His Israeli shirt was dark wool, but I believe the fibers found on JB's thighs and pubic area were found to be dark blue cotton.

 

[BBB167893]

Dave, can you imagine how much they hate us?

I can ONLY imagine.

You know they read these forums, it would be human nature to do so. They may even be members, who knows or just reading as guests. The thing is, I wonder how many of us have hit close to the truth? You know the R's would really be steamed at that!

Beck, I occasionally wonder that myself. Do they read these and think, "this is the one. This one KNOWS."

Besides, even if they don't read here, their minions do, that's a fact. Or what is it KoldKase calls them? Shills. I'm sure their shills read here often.

Of that, I have no doubt.

 

[madeleine]

They found the REMAINING 6 pairs of panties (of a 7-pair set) still in the package and turned them over to their lawyer 5 years later. I guess that proved Patsy was lying when she told LE she had put those size 12 panties in JB's drawer.

Whaaat?I didn't know this,do you have a link pls pls?
Where did they find (Ramseys) the remaining set?And why wasn't it taken into evidence that morning by LE?
So this proves I guess that the intruder didn't bring those panties with him,right?So it's either he found the pack (WHERE??) or it was used by the Ramseys.Weird for them to admit that they found the set,why did they do that.

:waitasec:

 

[CathyR]

Whaaat?I didn't know this,do you have a link pls pls?
Where did they find (Ramseys) the remaining set?And why wasn't it taken into evidence that morning by LE?
So this proves I guess that the intruder didn't bring those panties with him,right?So it's either he found the pack (WHERE??) or it was used by the Ramseys.Weird for them to admit that they found the set,why did they do that.

:waitasec:

I followed a link from a previous post. I couldn't tell you which thread.

The story as I remember it was the remaining underwear still in the opened package ( I'm assuming the manufacturers) was found in a box of stuff taken when they moved from CO to Atlanta. Someone pointed it out to Patsy, when they were unpacked and they sent the undies to BPD. I think it was Pam Paugh who found them.
I think the link was on candy rose or the site with all the autopsy photos. It is supposed to be in the area where the R's are listed as cooperating with police, giving hair, DNA, blood, handwriting samples long before the April 30 meeting. I don't know if the BPD acknowledges receiving them. Certainly she would have sealed them in a zip lock and sent them certified mail ATTN Lou Smit or Mary Lacy since he/she was sympathetic to the R's. It may be one of those things they aren't releasing. Imagine if they tested the package of unused undies and found ........?

 

[madeleine]

Yes but the location where the set was found is very important,cause I don't see an intruder travel from the basement to the first floor to get them like the R's would probably claim.

So I guess they were in the basement somewhere ready to be sent to the niece,right,as a gift or whatever.

But my question still is,if the pack was in the basement,why the heck did LE not collect it??

 

[madeleine]

If the BPD collected everything that was down in the basement and they didn't find the remaining set,then the R's have a problem cause this means the set was somewhere else and someone knew where to go and get that pair.And what intruder would be that stupid to risk being get caught for that.Just leave her without underwear ,period.

 

[SunnieRN]

If the BPD collected everything that was down in the basement and they didn't find the remaining set,then the R's have a problem cause this means the set was somewhere else and someone knew where to go and get that pair.And what intruder would be that stupid to risk being get caught for that.Just leave her without underwear ,period.

And here, in your final statement is where the evidence points AWAY from any intruder, other than one of the other Ramseys inside the house that night!

Patsy at first admitted they were a gift for her niece, then said she gave the undies to JB. Either way, they would have been IN JB's drawer or in the basement with the rest of the wrapped packages.

Why would they have turned in the rest of the underwear? Doesn't make any sense to their defense perspective.

 

[DeeDee249]

And here, in your final statement is where the evidence points AWAY from any intruder, other than one of the other Ramseys inside the house that night!

Patsy at first admitted they were a gift for her niece, then said she gave the undies to JB. Either way, they would have been IN JB's drawer or in the basement with the rest of the wrapped packages.

Why would they have turned in the rest of the underwear? Doesn't make any sense to their defense perspective.

Well we know there weren't in the panty drawer. We know this because LE would have found them. They also weren't still in the unwrapped boxes. Where they were that night was (IMO) hidden in the golf bag (the one JR asked specifically for and PP removed from the house). THAT is why the Rs were able to "find" them years later. And the fact that they "found" them still in the package proved Patsy did not put them in JB's panty drawer like she said she did.

 

[JMO8778]

It was to their advantage somehow,to say they 'found' them.Just as it was to their advantage to recant their story and say that BR was indeed awake that morning.
I guess when they didn't turn up in the drawer,Patsy had to come up w them somewhere,else it would have looked suspect on her.
But to think JB would have specifically picked out the Wed. pair on her own,right out of the package,is just ridiculous.

 

[madeleine]

This was a huge mistake they made IMO,admitting the large Bloomies set was theirs.
I would have said "I never saw those,they don't belong to me,hte intruder brought them".

 

[otg]

Well we know there weren't in the panty drawer. We know this because LE would have found them. They also weren't still in the unwrapped boxes. Where they were that night was (IMO) hidden in the golf bag (the one JR asked specifically for and PP removed from the house). THAT is why the Rs were able to "find" them years later. And the fact that they "found" them still in the package proved Patsy did not put them in JB's panty drawer like she said she did.

Maybe... along with a small piece of wood? some recently purchased cord from McGuckin's? and knows what else?
.

 

[21merc7]

This was a huge mistake they made IMO,admitting the large Bloomies set was theirs.
I would have said "I never saw those,they don't belong to me,hte intruder brought them".

madeline;

Maybe they had to admit to it. Credit card receipts would have shown that they were bought, IDK but I doubt Patsy paid cash for them. The mistake was saying they found them 5 years later!

 

[madeleine]

Yes,I didn't know this but the more you find out about this crime and people's actions the more absurd it gets.

 

[Becky319]

madeline;

Maybe they had to admit to it. Credit card receipts would have shown that they were bought, IDK but I doubt Patsy paid cash for them. The mistake was saying they found them 5 years later!

The DA wouldn't even let them check phone records so they probably weren't given access to credit card bills..grrrrr. I agree with you merc, just not sure they could get to the bills. When did the touch DA come out? Is it possible that the Ramsey's knew the other pairs would NOT have the same touch DA on them that JBR's did? IE they knew who the touch DNA probably belonged to and knew that same person hadn't touched the other pairs? Figuring that they turned the panties in to prove it couldn't be a factory worker, why the other pairs didn't have that DNA on them so must be an intruder in to their home that night.

 

[21merc7]

The DA wouldn't even let them check phone records so they probably weren't given access to credit card bills..grrrrr. I agree with you merc, just not sure they could get to the bills. When did the touch DA come out? Is it possible that the Ramsey's knew the other pairs would NOT have the same touch DA on them that JBR's did? IE they knew who the touch DNA probably belonged to and knew that same person hadn't touched the other pairs? Figuring that they turned the panties in to prove it couldn't be a factory worker, why the other pairs didn't have that DNA on them so must be an intruder in to their home that night.

I wonder the same Becky, they could have bought another pack and taken Wednesday out. Paid cash, that winter, with gloves on, just in case. Thought about it a lot. So, if touch the DNA came out about then, they had a pack on hand.

 

[JMO8778]

The DA wouldn't even let them check phone records so they probably weren't given access to credit card bills..grrrrr. I agree with you merc, just not sure they could get to the bills. When did the touch DA come out? Is it possible that the Ramsey's knew the other pairs would NOT have the same touch DA on them that JBR's did? IE they knew who the touch DNA probably belonged to and knew that same person hadn't touched the other pairs? Figuring that they turned the panties in to prove it couldn't be a factory worker, why the other pairs didn't have that DNA on them so must be an intruder in to their home that night.

yes,I think it's quite possible someone else dressed JB that night.JR did slip and say there were a lot of ppl there at 3 am.
also to add...IMO,JR himself revealed he knew more about this crime,including who redressed her,when they did the touch dna analysis.He had n/p with it..why? because he knew the intimate details of it,inc. who all had touched JB,and where.