The HW or WH belt evidence at gilgonews

[SlapKFD]

WH = Wayward House

 

[Ironbutterfly8]

Never thought of that but not something I would think would be on a belt. Interesting though.

 

[SlapKFD]

Another random thought. All we see is HM or WH. The belt was sitting in the elements for years. Could've been an S and M collar on the victims neck and might have spelled out before it weathered. Again just a thought

 

[Ironbutterfly8]

Another random thought. All we see is HM or WH. The belt was sitting in the elements for years. Could've been an S and M collar on the victims neck and might have spelled out before it weathered. Again just a thought

Yes, all very interesting!! Such a twisty case, if 10 years hadn't gone by it might be less confusing. I'm starting to look deeper at other surrounding possibilities. For instance, who's affiliated with who etc., I watch/listen to every new podcast/doc and I seem to get something more out of each one.

 

[SlapKFD]

Yes, all very interesting!! Such a twisty case, if 10 years hadn't gone by it might be less confusing. I'm starting to look deeper at other surrounding possibilities. For instance, who's affiliated with who etc., I watch/listen to every new podcast/doc and I seem to get something more out of each one.

I'm right there with you. So many different connections it seems that tie into each other in someway or another

 

[jpfdtriggerH]

If this is a belt, they dont have the buckle. otherwise they would infer if it is a wh oe hm (there is only one way to put correctly a belt). If they dont have the buckle it can be some sort of strap. If the letters are half inch it seems quite small to put your initials on something. It might be also some sort of bdsm stuff, maybe the brand.

 

[jpfdtriggerH]

I did read somewhere that Sugar Bear was seen getting into a red BMW with nice rims, he was never seen again. It was also stated that the driver looked to be Hispanic. I haven't seen anything more about this, has anyone else heard anything more about this car/driver?? I think its extremely important.

it seems sugar bear is related in some important way, maybe dna. his name is on the gilgo police website with no further information. I think this is to let know the perp that they have some information. Its common practice that LE plays this kind of games in order to make some noise to the perp in the hope he makes a mistake. My personal take on sugar bear is his demise is related some way to jessica taylor, maybe to hide his tracks. They are very close in the timeline and somehow geographically related. I think this guy might have killed sugar bear maybe the asian doe not out of pleasure but maybe because they were related to other victims to cover his tracks.

 

[Ironbutterfly8]

it seems sugar bear is related in some important way, maybe dna. his name is on the gilgo police website with no further information. I think this is to let know the perp that they have some information. Its common practice that LE plays this kind of games in order to make some noise to the perp in the hope he makes a mistake. My personal take on sugar bear is his demise is related some way to jessica taylor, maybe to hide his tracks. They are very close in the timeline and somehow geographically related. I think this guy might have killed sugar bear maybe the asian doe not out of pleasure but maybe because they were related to other victims to cover his tracks.

Yes, good point on them covering their tracks with the murder of SB and Asian male. ( I just realized I went off track on this thread topic, sorry admin!)

 

[Ironbutterfly8]

If this is a belt, they dont have the buckle. otherwise they would infer if it is a wh oe hm (there is only one way to put correctly a belt). If they dont have the buckle it can be some sort of strap. If the letters are half inch it seems quite small to put your initials on something. It might be also some sort of bdsm stuff, maybe the brand.

Yes!! No buckle! Thats why they can't distinguish which way the letters should be. Excellent point!

 

[CatLady710]

My guess is that if they believe the suspect to be law enforcement, that the belt is standard uniform issue, which is why they're not giving additional details. Would also make some sense of the initials being on it; make sure if it gets mixed up in a locker room or something they can identify it.

That said, my guess is that they released the belt info simply to rattle the suspect. I think they're closer than they're saying.

 

[jpfdtriggerH]

My guess is that if they believe the suspect to be law enforcement, that the belt is standard uniform issue, which is why they're not giving additional details. Would also make some sense of the initials being on it; make sure if it gets mixed up in a locker room or something they can identify it.

That said, my guess is that they released the belt info simply to rattle the suspect. I think they're closer than they're saying.

it is very plausible. It is a good idea. I watched a few years ago a youtube interview of dormer in a retired nypd postcast. I noted his tension was very high during the interview and he was showing the victims pictures to rattle him. Had the same thought at that moment. Its an old trick to show "tokens" or stuff that the perp might feel "belong" to him, in order to make him make a mistake. I am sure this guy will not make a mistake or be rattled by that old tricks, because he knows how it works.

 

[Sallyla]

I did read somewhere that Sugar Bear was seen getting into a red BMW with nice rims, he was never seen again. It was also stated that the driver looked to be Hispanic. I haven't seen anything more about this, has anyone else heard anything more about this car/driver?? I think its extremely important.

From a few yards, would you be able to tell this man’s ethnicity.

 

[Ironbutterfly8]

From a few yards, would you be able to tell this man’s ethnicity.

Good point!

 

[Sallyla]

If they dont have the buckle it can be some sort of strap. If the letters are half inch it seems quite small to put your initials on something. It might be also some sort of bdsm stuff, maybe the brand.

I wondered if it was used as a strap to make it easier to carry the burlap.

Also I could extrapolate from that 4 x very petite women in an advance state of decay would be easy for a fit man to move. So maybe he had a disability? Like a missing limb? Pure speculation though.

 

[Sallyla]

My personal take on sugar bear is his demise is related some way to jessica taylor, maybe to hide his tracks. They are very close in the timeline and somehow geographically related. I think this guy might have killed sugar bear maybe the asian doe not out of pleasure but maybe because they were related to other victims to cover his tracks.

This is speculation again. But when considering the early victims I always come back to the Fred West case in the UK. His early victims were people he had personal relationships with and their deaths served some sort of practical function as well as being a fetish, sexually exciting killings.

Two women who were heavily pregnant with his child but causing issues for him. His 80 stepdaughter Charmaine who was an inconvenience, then his first wife Rena was killed when she came back looking for Charmaine (reminds me of peaches and the toddler).

After that he and his wife Rose knew they enjoyed killing, it’d given them a taste but they figured out killing people with personal connections was dangerous (they were right, it was killing their eldest Heather that they got caught.

It’s pure, pure speculation but I have a hunch that many of the early victims may be people he had connections with in real life.

 

[jollyjustice]

I’ve zoomed in on the photo of the belt and analyzed the letters a number of times and it looks like the correct letters or ‘initials’ are in fact HM. HM when the belt is right side up. WH looks to be the belt upside down to me.

 

[jpfdtriggerH]

This is speculation again. But when considering the early victims I always come back to the Fred West case in the UK. His early victims were people he had personal relationships with and their deaths served some sort of practical function as well as being a fetish, sexually exciting killings.

Two women who were heavily pregnant with his child but causing issues for him. His 80 stepdaughter Charmaine who was an inconvenience, then his first wife Rena was killed when she came back looking for Charmaine (reminds me of peaches and the toddler).

After that he and his wife Rose knew they enjoyed killing, it’d given them a taste but they figured out killing people with personal connections was dangerous (they were right, it was killing their eldest Heather that they got caught.

You are right. According to the "doctrine" used by the behaviour unit in the FBI the first case is statistically more relevant, in the sense it is usually closely geographically and personally to the perp. In the case of baby doe / peaches, i think she was a sex worker, they met first maybe on the street without the child , but killed in a 2nd or 3rd arranged meeting, the child might have been collateral damage. The child was "buried" wrapped in a blanket , usually demostrates some care or "remorse", for what its worth.

 

[Sallyla]

You are right. According to the "doctrine" used by the behaviour unit in the FBI the first case is statistically more relevant, in the sense it is usually closely geographically and personally to the perp. In the case of baby doe / peaches, i think she was a sex worker, they met first maybe on the street without the child , but killed in a 2nd or 3rd arranged meeting, the child might have been collateral damage. The child was "buried" wrapped in a blanket , usually demostrates some care or "remorse", for what its worth.

I guess for a person to find out that killing people is erotic to them, they’d need to do it at least once to find out. So yes, the earlier ones being in a relationship of some sorts often happens.

The thing that’s strange is that Peaches remains were found in 1997 but the toddlers remains remains were found with Valerie Mack’s. Valerie died in 2000 so it is not possible the toddler died at the same time as Valerie. However, the toddlers remains had been unfounded for quite some time. And it was VM’s identifiable parts (head, hands, feet) that were stowed with the toddler. Obviously discovery of a dead toddler would have caused huge ructions, so maybe he saw that as the most secure unfindable place for the most damining pieces of evidence.

A lot of it is frustrating because the police have revealed so little. Peaches torso was found so the police must know how many births she had and probably could make a good guess at how far post natal she was. Also police have revealed nothing about Baby Doe’s DNA or her father’s ethnic background.

I tend to lean towards thinking he was in some sort of personal relationship with Peaches and kept the child for some times after her death, he may have killed her because questions were being asked about where Peaches had gone and it wasn’t convincing to say she’d gone without her child.

 

[jpfdtriggerH]

I tend to lean towards thinking he was in some sort of personal relationship with Peaches and kept the child for some times after her death, he may have killed her because questions were being asked about where Peaches had gone and it wasn’t convincing to say she’d gone without her child.

I tend to disagree on this one. All indications according to some fbi reports is that this guy has a family . They infer this by the timing of the killings (summer, hollidays) and because he does not take things from the victims (tokens). My theory on peaches is he might met her in the street ad or escort service and got her phone or adress and might have had further meetings with her. She might went along with her child specially if she lived alone in the big city. If she lived alone without a family she would be a perfect victim since there would no missing person report. Peaches was identified by the guy that made her tattoo and he told investigators she was half african american half caucassian (we know this is what he likes in his deviant sexual fantasy because he went ballistic with melyssas sister which has the same etnical characterstics) (she called her on the phone as "halfbreed"). Also note when he called melyssas family he was asking them if they filed a missing person report. Also he might buried valerie mack with the child in order to cover his tracks, to make sure if found LE would be somehow think they are related, no more significance than that. I think this guy does not understand nothing about anatomy or medicine, in the way he tried to remove jessica taylor tattoo is very crude. If he had some basic knowledge about anatomy he would remove the whole tattoo by making incisions and removing by pulling on the connective tissue, very easy to do. But he did not, hence he does not know nothing about human anatomy (not a doctor, nurse, etc). If he does not have that basic knowledge we can infer he also does not grasp the full value of DNA, and on that line, he put valerie mack with the child because he does not understand full well how DNA works.

To summarize.
- He does not have basic anatomy knowledge
- He might not understand at some point how DNA works
- He is infatuated with mixed race young girls (peaches was)
- He does not like missing persons report he is very self aware of that
- We might infer peaches lived alone in the city and worked as a sex worker
- The best way to gain her trust would be to "date" a few times before killing her
- The child beeing present probably was her constraint in order to date her out of her house and beeing her his sexual fantasy he took the risk regardless.

 

[jpfdtriggerH]

I tend to disagree on this one. All indications according to some fbi reports is that this guy has a family . They infer this by the timing of the killings (summer, hollidays) and because he does not take things from the victims (tokens). My theory on peaches is he might met her in the street ad or escort service and got her phone or adress and might have had further meetings with her. She might went along with her child specially if she lived alone in the big city. If she lived alone without a family she would be a perfect victim since there would no missing person report. Peaches was identified by the guy that made her tattoo and he told investigators she was half african american half caucassian (we know this is what he likes in his deviant sexual fantasy because he went ballistic with melyssas sister which has the same etnical characterstics) (she called her on the phone as "halfbreed"). Also note when he called melyssas family he was asking them if they filed a missing person report. Also he might buried valerie mack with the child in order to cover his tracks, to make sure if found LE would be somehow think they are related, no more significance than that. I think this guy does not understand nothing about anatomy or medicine, in the way he tried to remove jessica taylor tattoo is very crude. If he had some basic knowledge about anatomy he would remove the whole tattoo by making incisions and removing by pulling on the connective tissue, very easy to do. But he did not, hence he does not know nothing about human anatomy (not a doctor, nurse, etc). If he does not have that basic knowledge we can infer he also does not grasp the full value of DNA, and on that line, he put valerie mack with the child because he does not understand full well how DNA works.

To summarize.
- He does not have basic anatomy knowledge
- He might not understand at some point how DNA works
- He is infatuated with mixed race young girls (peaches was)
- He does not like missing persons report he is very self aware of that
- We might infer peaches lived alone in the city and worked as a sex worker
- The best way to gain her trust would be to "date" a few times before killing her
- The child beeing present probably was her constraint in order to date her out of her house and beeing her his sexual fantasy he took the risk regardless.

he might not have understanded how DNA works in his first killings (97-2000) might have understood later. Also i think that this guy does not necessarly enjoys the dismemberment, since the last 4 (gilgo 4) were found without any body parts missing.