The HW or WH belt evidence at gilgonews

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  • #81
jpfdtriggerH said:
I tend to disagree on this one. All indications according to some fbi reports is that this guy has a family . They infer this by the timing of the killings (summer, hollidays) and because he does not take things from the victims (tokens). My theory on peaches is he might met her in the street ad or escort service and got her phone or adress and might have had further meetings with her. She might went along with her child specially if she lived alone in the big city. If she lived alone without a family she would be a perfect victim since there would no missing person report. Peaches was identified by the guy that made her tattoo and he told investigators she was half african american half caucassian (we know this is what he likes in his deviant sexual fantasy because he went ballistic with melyssas sister which has the same etnical characterstics) (she called her on the phone as "halfbreed"). Also note when he called melyssas family he was asking them if they filed a missing person report. Also he might buried valerie mack with the child in order to cover his tracks, to make sure if found LE would be somehow think they are related, no more significance than that. I think this guy does not understand nothing about anatomy or medicine, in the way he tried to remove jessica taylor tattoo is very crude. If he had some basic knowledge about anatomy he would remove the whole tattoo by making incisions and removing by pulling on the connective tissue, very easy to do. But he did not, hence he does not know nothing about human anatomy (not a doctor, nurse, etc). If he does not have that basic knowledge we can infer he also does not grasp the full value of DNA, and on that line, he put valerie mack with the child because he does not understand full well how DNA works.

To summarize.
- He does not have basic anatomy knowledge
- He might not understand at some point how DNA works
- He is infatuated with mixed race young girls (peaches was)
- He does not like missing persons report he is very self aware of that
- We might infer peaches lived alone in the city and worked as a sex worker
- The best way to gain her trust would be to "date" a few times before killing her
- The child beeing present probably was her constraint in order to date her out of her house and beeing her his sexual fantasy he took the risk regardless.
Click to expand...

Your theory is all under the assumption that it’s one killer, which might not be the case. There was a recent interview with the Suffolk police commissioner and she states she believes it’s two killers and I agree.

“Peaches was identified by the guy that made her tattoo and he told investigators she was half african american half caucassian (we know this is what he likes in his deviant sexual fantasy because he went ballistic with melyssas sister which has the same etnical characterstics) (she called her on the phone as "halfbreed"). Also note when he called melyssas family he was asking them if they filed a missing person report. Also he might buried valerie mack with the child in order to cover his tracks”

There’s some issues with your info.
#1 is that baby doe was not buried with Valerie’s remains, the police in fact stated that baby doe was found in the closest proximity to Valerie. This does not mean they were buried together, this does not mean their remains were side by side, it just means Valeries remains were the closest to baby Doe.

#2 The tattoo artist who “identified” peaches has not been confirmed as fact by police. The fact that peaches still remains unidentified and the police have never confirmed the tattoo artist as being factual in his info or confirming that he is the artist that did her tattoo means the info can’t be taken as factual as of yet.

Also how are you coming to the conclusion that LISK likes mixed raced black woman as a part of his “deviant sexual fantasy?” The women all found in burlap (who we know for certain that LISK killed, it’s very probable the others were killed by someone else) were all white. Calling Melissa’s sister a halfbreed means he’s racist. Not that he fantasizes about mixed race women. LISK is a sadist, he derives pleasure out of torturing, humiliating and terrifying others. He wanted to speak to Amanda because Amanda was a child at that time, vulnerable and innocent, as a result he could maintain more control over her. His conversation with Amanda was far more violent than it was sexual, he taunted her, he enjoyed the fact that he was terrifying Amanda and taking away her innocence by saying these things to her. LISK wanting to speak to Amanda had nothing to do with her race and everything to do with the fact that he could get the reaction he desired from Amanda because she was so young and innocent. He took sick pleasure in it, that’s the essence of the sadist.
 
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  • #82
jpfdtriggerH said:
I tend to disagree on this one. All indications according to some fbi reports is that this guy has a family . They infer this by the timing of the killings (summer, hollidays) and because he does not take things from the victims (tokens). My theory on peaches is he might met her in the street ad or escort service and got her phone or adress and might have had further meetings with her. She might went along with her child specially if she lived alone in the big city. If she lived alone without a family she would be a perfect victim since there would no missing person report. Peaches was identified by the guy that made her tattoo and he told investigators she was half african american half caucassian (we know this is what he likes in his deviant sexual fantasy because he went ballistic with melyssas sister which has the same etnical characterstics) (she called her on the phone as "halfbreed"). Also note when he called melyssas family he was asking them if they filed a missing person report. Also he might buried valerie mack with the child in order to cover his tracks, to make sure if found LE would be somehow think they are related, no more significance than that. I think this guy does not understand nothing about anatomy or medicine, in the way he tried to remove jessica taylor tattoo is very crude. If he had some basic knowledge about anatomy he would remove the whole tattoo by making incisions and removing by pulling on the connective tissue, very easy to do. But he did not, hence he does not know nothing about human anatomy (not a doctor, nurse, etc). If he does not have that basic knowledge we can infer he also does not grasp the full value of DNA, and on that line, he put valerie mack with the child because he does not understand full well how DNA works.

To summarize.
- He does not have basic anatomy knowledge
- He might not understand at some point how DNA works
- He is infatuated with mixed race young girls (peaches was)
- He does not like missing persons report he is very self aware of that
- We might infer peaches lived alone in the city and worked as a sex worker
- The best way to gain her trust would be to "date" a few times before killing her
- The child beeing present probably was her constraint in order to date her out of her house and beeing her his sexual fantasy he took the risk regardless.[/
Click to expand...
 
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  • #83
jollyjustice said:
Your theory is all under the assumption that it’s one killer, which might not be the case. There was a recent interview with the Suffolk police commissioner and she states she believes it’s two killers and I agree.

“Peaches was identified by the guy that made her tattoo and he told investigators she was half african american half caucassian (we know this is what he likes in his deviant sexual fantasy because he went ballistic with melyssas sister which has the same etnical characterstics) (she called her on the phone as "halfbreed"). Also note when he called melyssas family he was asking them if they filed a missing person report. Also he might buried valerie mack with the child in order to cover his tracks”

There’s some issues with your info.
#1 is that baby doe was not buried with Valerie’s remains, the police in fact stated that baby doe was found in the closest proximity to Valerie. This does not mean they were buried together, this does not mean their remains were side by side, it just means Valeries remains were the closest to baby Doe.

#2 The tattoo artist who “identified” peaches has not been confirmed as fact by police. The fact that peaches still remains unidentified and the police have never confirmed the tattoo artist as being factual in his info or confirming that he is the artist that did her tattoo means the info can’t be taken as factual as of yet.

Also how are you coming to the conclusion that LISK likes mixed raced black woman as a part of his “deviant sexual fantasy?” The women all found in burlap (who we know for certain that LISK killed, it’s very probable the others were killed by someone else) were all white. Calling Melissa’s sister a halfbreed means he’s racist. Not that he fantasizes about mixed race women. LISK is a sadist, he derives pleasure out of torturing, humiliating and terrifying others. He wanted to speak to Amanda because Amanda was a child at that time, vulnerable and innocent, as a result he could maintain more control over her. His conversation with Amanda was far more violent than it was sexual, he taunted her, he enjoyed the fact that he was terrifying Amanda and taking away her innocence by saying these things to her. LISK wanting to speak to Amanda had nothing to do with her race and everything to do with the fact that he could get the reaction he desired from Amanda because she was so young and innocent. He took sick pleasure in it, that’s the essence of the sadist.
Click to expand...

i believe melyssas father was black and mother white, the same as her sister (not white). the killer is obsessed with race in some way. Amanda picked up the first calls from the killer by chance and he already knew her "mixed" race because he was in posession of melyssas phone (including pictures of her family). The tattoo artist confirmed he had done peaches tattoo because LE published it in a magazine, so from the point of view of the tattoo artist it is confirmed he knew the victim and done the tattoo. Alsoa coincidence is that the torso of peaches is listed as half caucassian half african american and the artist coincides in the race of the victim. According to a last interview i saw of him he was not further interviewed by police. We are talking about fire island jane doe, GB4, baby doe, peaches, jessica taylor, valerie mack, andre isaac, at least all are related to the same killer. I dont care really what the police are saying because is only speculation. They infer there are more than 1 killer because of differences in MO and "demographics". Example they dont think the asian doe is related because...demographics, but then they tie another black transgender to him (isac jamal) he is even listed as a lisk victim on the LE website, for reasons we dont know. Dormer said at some time it could be 1 killer, the fbi is not talking. I think is fair to say there is not enough data to say if it is 1 or more killers.

to summarize

- Killer is obsessed with race (as many racists are)
- Melyssa is not white, neither her sister.
- Peaches is half african american half white (like melyssa)
- The artist confirmed he had done the tattoo and described the victim (peaches)
- Isaac jamal has been linked to him (gilgo website) allthough does not
fit his "profile of victims". The speculations of 2 killers
are based mainly on "demographics" allthough asian doe and that this case related to him (sugar bear)
belong to the same demograpic (transexuals). The sugar bear case is on the gilgo LE website for some
reason.
- There is not enough information to say if it is one or 2 killers , specially since we dont
know all the victims or maybe other burial sites.
- Agree the toddler was not buried in the same "bag" as valerie mack.
- The killer is very geographically self concious. Geography and "placing" are important
factors in his mind. Either for practical or symbolic reasons.
- We also need to take with a grain of salt what the comissioner or any LE people are saying
we know they are playing media games also with this guy, asi it is in the book of good practices
for LE.
- The guys that most probably know the most accurate profile of this guy is the
behavioural unit of the fbi in quantico. And they did not talk and would not talk
to the media.
 
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  • #84
  • #85
jpfdtriggerH said:
i believe melyssas father was black and mother white, the same as her sister (not white).
Click to expand...

Melissas father was white and her mother was white.
 
  • #86
  • #87
It’s very obvious that the release of the belt buckle info is just to look like Hart is hard at work . This info should have been released long ago. And...How long was the actual belt? Men’s or Women’s belt? Instead of having a press conference a decade later about a buckle, why in the hell is the NYPD not using Parabon for the unknown victims?!?!?! NYPD states they need the public’s help but they are not utilizing all of the resources!
Also, all of the absolute nonsense the NYPD has been up to over the last 20 years is flabbergasting!
 
  • #88
Disco1 said:
It’s very obvious that the release of the belt buckle info is just to look like Hart is hard at work . This info should have been released long ago. And...How long was the actual belt? Men’s or Women’s belt? Instead of having a press conference a decade later about a buckle, why in the hell is the NYPD not using Parabon for the unknown victims?!?!?! NYPD states they need the public’s help but they are not utilizing all of the resources!
Also, all of the absolute nonsense the NYPD has been up to over the last 20 years is flabbergasting!
Click to expand...
Was the buckle released recently??
Did I miss new info?

FWIW I think it's important to distinguish between NYPD and SCPD in this case specifically. I know Suffolk County is NY but there are certain names within SCPD particularly that operate like rogue proxy groups.
Just my opinion tho.
But I certainly feel your frustration.
 
  • #89
Disco1 said:
It’s very obvious that the release of the belt buckle info is just to look like Hart is hard at work . This info should have been released long ago. And...How long was the actual belt? Men’s or Women’s belt? Instead of having a press conference a decade later about a buckle, why in the hell is the NYPD not using Parabon for the unknown victims?!?!?!
Click to expand...

I feel your frustration, too. If they haven't had any serious leads from that belt by now, it's time to throw out some more clues, and fast. Time is not on their side anymore.

And when you think about it, throwing out a nibble like the belt initials but not allowing Ray to release the contents of the SG 911 tapes is completely backwards!

SCPD wants to give the impression they're forwarding the case when really they're pawing the public around.

Let's pray we're wrong, though, and that John Ray has a good day in court on Thursday (he's filed a motion to release the contents of the 911 call).

That will tell us what we need to know about how committed Hart is, or if it's just more smoke and mirrors.
 
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  • #90
I never heard any mention of a belt BUCKLE. Where did that info come from ?
 
  • #91
  • #92
  • #93
Disco1 said:
It’s very obvious that the release of the belt buckle info is just to look like Hart is hard at work . This info should have been released long ago. And...How long was the actual belt? Men’s or Women’s belt? Instead of having a press conference a decade later about a buckle, why in the hell is the NYPD not using Parabon for the unknown victims?!?!?! NYPD states they need the public’s help but they are not utilizing all of the resources!
Also, all of the absolute nonsense the NYPD has been up to over the last 20 years is flabbergasting!
Click to expand...

Whilst I feel your frustration, I think that the reason for the release of the belt buckle is nothing to do with them not working hard (although this might be true). This is more to do with the fact that this case is now classed (almost) as a cold case. Prior to this, keeping things up their sleeves was a necessary choice. In case it was needed to separate the faker from the killer. Now, they have weighed up the alternatives and feel that releasing it to social media would be helpful in a cost/benefit analysis kind of way. I.e, Facebook forums, Websleuths, any number of pages would start looking into this and, as the saying goes, many hands make light work. It is, strangely, the sensible thing to do at this stage.

Please do not take this as me excusing the horrendously slow uptake of investigation of this case, or the obvious prejudice, because I am not, however, at this point I do feel this is the most positive step that they could take.
 
  • #94
Ktsleuth said:
Police reveal new crime scene evidence in Long Island serial killer case
Click to expand...

I wonder, they are looking at the belt as though it could be a name, but it could mean numerous things, could be a place, could be a company, or, this is my opinion of it so far, it's a navy thing. HM, stands for Hospital Corpsman (an enlisted medical specialist) in the Navy. A Medical Specialist would know that strangulation, i.e cutting off the blood flow to the brain (not oxygen asphyxiation, it takes too long) is the quickest way to kill someone cleanly. The US Navy department is literally just down the road... And, strangely, Burlap (used to wrap the victims)was originally used in Military outfits by the German military (Burlap=Hessian). Maybe all a coincidence, but quite a strange one wouldn't you say?
 
  • #95
Anyone know the status of dna evidence?

torso killer: I don't think this killer wants to be found considering all the disposal behaviors..JT,VM , Peaches and Cherries

GB4 : internet/computer forensics from backpage/ craigslist accounting to learn more about perps dns address, this guy left some sort of trail... and with the phone calls and pings, he likes the cat n mouse game with Vics and LE, he is leaking clues...

Male Killer/s: bodies at both Manorville and Gilgo area.

Also, this number 4 keeps popping up: GB4, AC4, TORSO 4 all with tattoos (JT, VM, PEECHES, CHERRIES)....how many males found so far total? ( at least 2 Manorville), 1 GB) that I have read about
 
  • #96
Disco1 said:
It’s very obvious that the release of the belt buckle info is just to look like Hart is hard at work . This info should have been released long ago. And...How long was the actual belt? Men’s or Women’s belt? Instead of having a press conference a decade later about a buckle, why in the hell is the NYPD not using Parabon for the unknown victims?!?!?! NYPD states they need the public’s help but they are not utilizing all of the resources!
Also, all of the absolute nonsense the NYPD has been up to over the last 20 years is flabbergasting!
Click to expand...

the release of the belt buckle reminds me a little bit of the most recent press release re the Libby and Abbie case...where a year after the murders they release "more" of the infamous "down the hill" recording... seemingly almost less
for the sake of getting the public's help, but more of " rattling" the cage of the perp ....I wonder if this is a newish police psychological tactic ....
 
  • #97
Ktsleuth said:
the release of the belt buckle reminds me a little bit of the most recent press release re the Libby and Abbie case...where a year after the murders they release "more" of the infamous "down the hill" recording... seemingly almost less
for the sake of getting the public's help, but more of " rattling" the cage of the perp ....I wonder if this is a newish police psychological tactic ....
Click to expand...

I would say that it is definitely a new tactic. Ruffle their feathers and maybe they will make mistakes. After all, GSK and the genealogy sites, BTK and the disc, serial killers obviously keep up with the news and know IT is the way forward with catching these killers and I think the authorities are hoping that releasing this information so loudly will send ripples onwards. It may not work, but the way things are currently standing, I think that any hope is better than no hope.

Obviously, this belt was not left by accident, this was left by the killer to give at least a clue. I think that they honestly felt that the authorities were struggling with this so much that he had to drop a clue for them. After all, if they are never caught, or at least suspected, nobody would know what they did. It would never be his/her (probably him, but, just in case) initials, that would be too easy, it would be something as I suggested earlier.

I do believe that this is all the work of one person, with the possible exception of Asian Doe (I really hate that btw, so derogatory). But I do think that they were also a victim of LSK.
 
  • #98
Its a belt not a buckle, at least last I've read/heard.
 
  • #99
  • #100
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