The HW or WH belt evidence at gilgonews

[Sleuth_Noob]

DetectiveB—Or do you believe that Bellone may have been pressured into appointing Burke—by Spota—and is now trying to rectify the image of SCPD?

 

[3Patriots]

DetectiveB—Or do you believe that Bellone may have been pressured into appointing Burke—by Spota—and is now trying to rectify the image of SCPD?

Yes.

 

[DetectiveB]

Detective B—So do you believe that the current SCPD Chief, GH, was appointed ‘with conditions’, possibly prohibiting/restricting any internal investigation of current and/or former members of SCPD in relation to the “ongoing” LISK investigation? Just trying to make sense of GH appointment in relation to the context of your post.

At this junction of the investigation and all that hasn't transpired even with all that's been brought to the forefront, I question the county executive's motive. In other words, can anyone appointed by SB be trusted? I believe that GH's may have good intentions to a certain extent, but hands may be tied unless something substantial is brought forward by a credible witness or DNA.

 

[DetectiveB]

Detective B—So do you believe that the current SCPD Chief, GH, was appointed ‘with conditions’, possibly prohibiting/restricting any internal investigation of current and/or former members of SCPD in relation to the “ongoing” LISK investigation? Just trying to make sense of GH appointment in relation to the context of your post.

At this junction of the investigation and all that hasn't transpired even with all that's been brought to the forefront, I question the county executive's motive. In other words, can anyone appointed by SB be trusted? I believe that GH's may have good intentions to a certain extent, but hands may be tied unless something substantial is brought forward by a credible witness or DNA.

 

[DetectiveB]

Part 2 Unraveled Youtube

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

At this junction of the investigation and all that hasn't transpired even with all that's been brought to the forefront, I question the county executive's motive. In other words, can anyone appointed by SB be trusted? I believe that GH's may have good intentions to a certain extent, but hands may be tied unless something substantial is brought forward by a credible witness or DNA.

Good point...That might explain the release of the images of the belt, and appeal to the public for leads. It’s safe to assume that any evidence related to the LISK case, other than dna (i.e. bodies), obtained during Burke’s tenure as SCPD Chief is being viewed as possibly tainted/compromised, and she is trying to go another route in order to avoid having to ascertain whether or not evidence is credible or not, an impossible task in context of Burke’s involvement...

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

If the Shannen Gilbert 911 call is somehow related to this case, and Hart/SCPD knows whether or not it is (along w. John Ray, attorney for estate of Shannen Gilbert), then there is very good reason for SCPD not wanting to release it publicly.

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

Next to dna—it’s the next best thing as far as actual evidence goes (the Shannen Gilbert 911 call, that is, if in fact the call is related to LISK investigation).

 

[Blunova]

If the LISK belt was purchased from a second hand clothing store, the HM or WH may not be of any great significance, as far as catching the killer.

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

If the LISK belt was purchased from a second hand clothing store, the HM or WH may not be of any great significance, as far as catching the killer.

The lettering on the belt is significant only to the person who recognizes it as belonging to someone they know/knew. I think that SCPD has a very good idea of who they suspect the belt belongs/belonged to (POI) but they have not said that...

What SCPD Chief Hart has said publicly is that they believe that the belt was handled by the killer (I’m saying that ‘killer’ is synonymous with ‘owner’), and they are releasing the images in an appeal to the public in helping to identify the owner in order to validate what they already know but cannot prove (that the belt belongs/belonged to their POI). This is most likely because they either no longer have the belt in their possession, or they are/were unable to obtain any substantial dna from it...or both.

The ‘appeal to the public’ is most likely then, an appeal to a very specific individual(s)—who SCPD almost certainly also know the identity of—who can positively identify the belt, and its association to that specific person (their POI).

 

[3Patriots]

The lettering on the belt is significant only to the person who recognizes it as belonging to someone they know/knew. I think that SCPD has a very good idea of who they suspect the belt belongs/belonged to (POI) but they have not said that...

What SCPD Chief Hart has said publicly is that they believe that the belt was handled by the killer (I’m saying that ‘killer’ is synonymous with ‘owner’), and they are releasing the images in an appeal to the public in helping to identify the owner in order to validate what they already know but cannot prove (that the belt belongs/belonged to their POI). This is most likely because they either no longer have the belt in their possession, or they are/were unable to obtain any substantial dna from it...or both.

The ‘appeal to the public’ is most likely then, an appeal to a very specific individual(s)—who SCPD almost certainly also know the identity of—who can positively identify the belt, and its association to that specific person (their POI).

Yes, but for purposes of putting them on paper, which then produces cause for further investigation, ultimately for warrant for DNA. They need someone to build that bridge.

 

[3Patriots]

The lettering on the belt is significant only to the person who recognizes it as belonging to someone they know/knew. I think that SCPD has a very good idea of who they suspect the belt belongs/belonged to (POI) but they have not said that...

What SCPD Chief Hart has said publicly is that they believe that the belt was handled by the killer (I’m saying that ‘killer’ is synonymous with ‘owner’), and they are releasing the images in an appeal to the public in helping to identify the owner in order to validate what they already know but cannot prove (that the belt belongs/belonged to their POI). This is most likely because they either no longer have the belt in their possession, or they are/were unable to obtain any substantial dna from it...or both.

The ‘appeal to the public’ is most likely then, an appeal to a very specific individual(s)—who SCPD almost certainly also know the identity of—who can positively identify the belt, and its association to that specific person (their POI).

And I'm of the belief they have it, and probably have enough DNA from it. But they need that connection to proceed. Like Denzel said "It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

I agree with you 100%...I can’t tell you the number of times I too reference that Denzel line from ‘Training Day’...
Yeah, I couldn’t really make sense of the initial release of photos of the belt, or more accurately photos of the lettering on the belt. From the first photos, we knew that the item was a belt only because SCPD said it was from a belt; based on the images, those letters could have been on any item.
So the specificity of what they released says “we know who this belt belongs to”, and the appeal to the public is really to a specific audience: “and we know that you do too”. But they need that person/persons to make that connection, as you said.

 

[3Patriots]

I agree with you 100%...I can’t tell you the number of times I too reference that Denzel line from ‘Training Day’...
Yeah, I couldn’t really make sense of the initial release of photos of the belt, or more accurately photos of the lettering on the belt. From the first photos, we knew that the item was a belt only because SCPD said it was from a belt; based on the images, those letters could have been on any item.
So the specificity of what they released says “we know who this belt belongs to”, and the appeal to the public is really to a specific audience: “and we know that you do too”. But they need that person/persons to make that connection, as you said.

Yes. And don't discount that they're counting on the POI to do something stupid just by their rattling of the cage.

As a tangent, there were some decent mistakes made here by LISK. Points to very hurried relocation of GB4.

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

It is logical to assume then, that if SCPD has a POI related to the belt, that POI is somehow connected to the Shannen Gilbert 911 call, and this would explain SCPD’s continuing refusal to release the contents of the call to the public, based on their classification of the call being part of ongoing LISK investigation...
Their belt POI is either audible on the 911 call, is referenced on the 911 call, or is identifiably linked to that 911 call in some other way.

 

[3Patriots]

It is logical to assume then, that if SCPD has a POI related to the belt, that POI is somehow connected to the Shannen Gilbert 911 call, and this would explain SCPD’s continuing refusal to release the contents of the call to the public, based on their classification of the call being part of ongoing LISK investigation...
Their belt POI is either audible on the 911 call, is referenced on the 911 call, or is identifiably linked to that 911 call in some other way.

Logically, maybe. But minus that 911 tape saying "There's someone here trying to wrap a belt around (Shannan's) neck, and the belt is a 1.5" black belt with WH on it"......

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

I was really just trying to formulate a logical reason for their adamant refusal to release the Gilbert 911 call on the premise of the call being part of the ongoing LISK investigation, and think that the belt POI scenario would be a solid reason...

If the Gilbert 911 call is part of the active LISK investigation, as SCPD has claimed, and they do have a POI related to the belt (I know that’s a big IF), then the only relevant reason for them not to release it would be to ensure the identity of their POI is not disclosed publicly, which would mean that the POI is either on the call (possible voice recognition), referenced during the call (as in, by name), or is identifiably connected to that call in some other way.

 

[GrayShadow]

Sleuth, something I posted in "Shannan Gilbert's 23 Minute 911 Call" thread.

Suppose for a moment that SG (1) was actually able to provide more precise location information but it was mishandled (beyond the transfer of the call to NY State Police); (2) provided additional information as to why she feared for her life; (3) was able to provide names or provide descriptions; or what if (4) when SG was on 911 while still at JB’s and the background voices were not just JB and MP as has been reported and (5) those voices were identifiable and in contradiction to what JB and MP gave in following investigative discussion; (6) as SG went door to door while still connected to 911 that the homeowners’ voices were also recorded and later testimony found contradiction; or, OMG, even worse (7) the tapes reveal SG encounters someone while running who identifies themselves as LE; what if that voice is identifiable?

If releasing the 911 tapes were to simply reveal a terribly mishandled call that would be an embarrassment to the County, current LE and prosecution would jump to release them with great fanfare if only to be able to say “that was then, this is now” and “that happened under the old guard and we are here now fixing things.”

There is very likely something tangible on those tapes that indicates a culpability and LE has not yet compiled enough evidence to secure a conviction. And if that intended conviction is for a government official? There need be a lot of credible, solid, untainted evidence. Things need be done by the book.

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

Yeah, those are all great points re: the 911 call. It took John Ray, attorney for estate of Shannen Gilbert, 10 years of court battles to finally be awarded access to that call. There is a great interview w. him from LISK podcast (not the new Unraveled: LISK podcast) where he describes explains the various court proceedings which ultimately led to a judge mandating that he be provided with a copy of the call, a transcript if the call, and any available voice analyses...
Interestingly, in context of your post, while he was provided w. a copy of the call, he was not provided a transcript or voice analysis, and there were strict conditions accompanying the release of the call to him (he cannot disclose what was on the call, but is allowed to, and already has, refute information that SCPD had previously disclosed in the public forum).

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

This is the link to the LISK podcast that I referenced in previous post.‎LISK: Long Island Serial Killer on Apple Podcasts