The Missing and Unidentified

[Marilynilpa]

A sad fact about unidentified bodies is that many of them are probably transients, prostitutes, runaways - people who may have lost touch with their families/friends over the years for whatever reason. They may drift from one town to another, from state to state. Even if someone does become concerned and wants to report them missing, they usually have no idea when or where the person was last seen. Things like that make it hard when we try to match up missing persons with Jane or John Does.I read last week that some of the Green River Killer's victims have never been identified, even though the police have posted photographs of the women. This is an example of what I'm talking about - the families may not even know these women have died. As prostitutes, they moved from place to place, and probably didn't contact their families very often, if at all.

 

[mysteriew]

A sad fact about unidentified bodies is that many of them are probably transients, prostitutes, runaways - people who may have lost touch with their families/friends over the years for whatever reason. They may drift from one town to another, from state to state. Even if someone does become concerned and wants to report them missing, they usually have no idea when or where the person was last seen. Things like that make it hard when we try to match up missing persons with Jane or John Does.I read last week that some of the Green River Killer's victims have never been identified, even though the police have posted photographs of the women. This is an example of what I'm talking about - the families may not even know these women have died. As prostitutes, they moved from place to place, and probably didn't contact their families very often, if at all.

While I can agree with you in part, think of all the missing persons cases we know of (and we don't catch them all). Many are children, many have no known connections to drugs. And many are never found even after many, many years have gone by. My theory is that many of them were taken to a different state, where they were eventually listed as an unknown, and advertised locally. Then buried in an unknown grave, because there is no requirement for them to do DNA testing, or to report the body to any national authority. The number of unknowns being buried, with no national attempt of identifing is overwhelming.

 

[Marilynilpa]

While I can agree with you in part, think of all the missing persons cases we know of (and we don't catch them all). Many are children, many have no known connections to drugs. And many are never found even after many, many years have gone by. My theory is that many of them were taken to a different state, where they were eventually listed as an unknown, and advertised locally. Then buried in an unknown grave, because there is no requirement for them to do DNA testing, or to report the body to any national authority. The number of unknowns being buried, with no national attempt of identifing is overwhelming.

I certainly didn't mean that all missings persons cases (or unidentified bodies) fall into the category of transient, prostitute, runaway, etc. I was simply pointing out that people who fall into that category can disappear without anyone immediately raising an alarm. It could be months, or even years, before their families report them as missing. In the meantime, if their unidentified body is found in another city or state, the chances of matching that missing person to the unidentified body diminishes.

The article I posted a link to (see post #19) really opened my eyes about how unidentified bodies are handled, i.e., local authorities aren't required to report them to any other authority. While that is discouraging to people like us who try, through this forum and others, to match missing persons to Jane and John Does, it certainly doesn't deter us from trying.

 

[LButler]

I really think that someone could "run away" from their family, move around alot, not make any real close, personal relationships, die at some point and never be positively id'ed. Some people change so much in their looks as they age (watched American Justice last night about David Davison .... never would have known that was the same man as his younger photos, amazing). And, I think that could happen even if they were reported missing. I think it would account for a very small number of bodies.

marilynilpa ... I do agree that a large percentage of un id'ed bodies are just as you said - runaways, prostitutes, transients...

 

[LButler]

My post sounds stupid now that I reread it. My runaway story makes them a runaway. So, let me say that I think of a runaway as a minor child who just wants out of the house for whatever reason.

In my runaway story, I'm thinking more of an adult who chooses to "walk away" from their life, responsibilities....could live a false life and die without a real identity. I guess that would be a "walkaway."

Maybe I'll just shut up!!

 

[mysteriew]

I wonder if a lot of the missing kids aren't alive out there some way? Of the UID bodies they find, most are adult. UID children are advertised more than adult. Yet, a lot of the missing kids are never found. When I think of Steven Staynor, and Sharon Marshall I wonder if those who are kidnapped at a young age, could possibly be alive out there some way. Maybe living under false identities, and not remembering where they came from.
Or feeling so used up or afraid that they don't attempt to find their way home.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I wonder if a lot of the missing kids aren't alive out there some way? Of the UID bodies they find, most are adult. UID children are advertised more than adult. Yet, a lot of the missing kids are never found. When I think of Steven Staynor, and Sharon Marshall I wonder if those who are kidnapped at a young age, could possibly be alive out there some way. Maybe living under false identities, and not remembering where they came from.
Or feeling so used up or afraid that they don't attempt to find their way home.

I don't know if "a lot" of them are alive, but I feel certain that some of them are. As you said, children who are kidnapped at a young age may have been raised by their abductor and cannot remember who they really are, or where they came from. It's possible that as the children get older, they are killed to keep them from figuring out their true identity. Or they could be killed because their abductor only likes young children, not older kids or teens. Some of the unidentified Jane Does could be missing children, all grown up. In those cases, it would probably take DNA testing to verify that an unidentified adult Jane Doe is actually a "missing child".

Also, I have heard about children being kidnapped and sold into pedophile rings here and abroad. I don't know if this is true or not, but if it is true, that could explain where some children are. If this happened to a child, it's possible that they would feel too damaged to return to their family.

Finally, some of the missing children might be living happy lives, blissfully unaware that they have been abducted.

 

[shadowangel]

I would agree "some" may still be alive, but I don't feel its many. I have ran across cases, some posted here on other threads, of abducted children found with their kidnappers living under assumed names-the children had not, at least to that point, been harmed in any way.

Unfortunately, the grim truth is that a child's body is easier to dispose of than an adults-the body can be placed into an object, such as an ice chest, and buried, or simply taken into parts of the woods where no one ever ventures-the light body of a child is easier to carry much farther than an adult's, which most likley will be left near a roadway or simply rolled down a ravine.

 

[laini]

Don't shut up, LButler. I know what your saying. On a side note, I don't understand how women can "runaway" with children still at home, and not at least call or eventually come back. It blows my mind, but I know it happens.

There was a missing young woman who was listed on all the missing sites last year and I was very interested in it. It turns out she left and started a new life and didn't want to be found. She was a professional career woman and doing fine she said (according to LE). She didn't have children left behind. But I wonder if there are many more missing people who truely left for good and never looked back, and who are listed on missing people sites.

 

[reportertype]

I would agree "some" may still be alive, but I don't feel its many. I have ran across cases, some posted here on other threads, of abducted children found with their kidnappers living under assumed names-the children had not, at least to that point, been harmed in any way.

Unfortunately, the grim truth is that a child's body is easier to dispose of than an adults-the body can be placed into an object, such as an ice chest, and buried, or simply taken into parts of the woods where no one ever ventures-the light body of a child is easier to carry much farther than an adult's, which most likley will be left near a roadway or simply rolled down a ravine.

At one time, what mysteriew suggests might have been possible. I know in the 1920s to as late as the 1950s many children were stolen and later sold as part of adoption/orphanage house scams. But these days, I fear most of them are dead and hidden. I hate to admit it, but I was incredibly shocked when Elizabeth Smart was found alive. Relieved, but shocked.

 

[wondering22]

Some time during the last year, I read a really interesting news article about a teenager who had been adopted. He sent a sample of his own DNA to a genaeology research place that he found online, and they were able to match his DNA to a specific surname.

Sorry, but I don't remember all the details, but IIRC, he was able to locate his bio-dad.

Now..... if a teenager could do that.... what might the pros be able to do, were they to send in DNA samples to the same place which matches DNA to surnames?

 

[mysteriew]

Was that the Genome project? I think it was National Geographic, I posted an article down in the geneology forum on that.

 

[mysteriew]

Was that the Genographic project? I think it was National Geographic, I posted an article down in the geneology forum on that.

https://www5.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/journey.html

 

[outofthedark]

Liani - I know just how you feel.

I've gone through all the information in the "unidentified" section, and read it several times each case.

It's unbelievable. Some of those cases sound like transients, and the family never knew what happened to them, and probably won't ever take the time to look.

Some of the others, though, sound like they were living completely normal lives, well-dressed, well-groomed, and then they were killed and no one ever attempted to find them.

But I also think when I read through some of them, they've gotten a detail so completely wrong (age, date of death, etc. ) that it keeps them from being identified - they are ruled out by searchers as not a possibility.

Best wishes with trying to cross-match them. I did send in a couple thoughts on several of them, but they were pretty long-shots.

I've done that too- I look through missing persons that I find and see if they match my John Doe or any other UID cases that I can remember facts from.

Whenever I try and find a match, I type in any keywords from the UID case and see if the search comes up with anything. I usually type in the race, height or anything like a scar or injury to see if anything comes up...

I, however get frustrated easily whenever a possible match comes up and doesn't quite match anything I am looking for...

I did come up with an idea to make a video with the sketches/photos of UID's when they were still alive along with information about the UID's- but unfortunatley- I can't do this because I don't have a video making program and the only way I could do this is through the computer programs at school- providing I can remember how to use a specific program

 

[mysteriew]

I did come up with an idea to make a video with the sketches/photos of UID's when they were still alive along with information about the UID's- but unfortunatley- I can't do this because I don't have a video making program and the only way I could do this is through the computer programs at school- providing I can remember how to use a specific program

Some community broadcast or cable stations allow for "community" broadcast time or "local programming". Most of the time it is used for local ministers to use for broadcasting their church services. But I am wondering if something could be worked out through them? And they may have the needed equipment also.

 

[welder 79]

good idea!!! that's what community broadcast time is set a side for..

 

[outofthedark]

Some community broadcast or cable stations allow for "community" broadcast time or "local programming". Most of the time it is used for local ministers to use for broadcasting their church services. But I am wondering if something could be worked out through them? And they may have the needed equipment also.

I was actually thinking about posting it on YouTube if I ever get around to making a video- alot of people are on YouTube, so it might attract alot of viewers.

 

[Zanko]

It is funny you should bring this up. I have been thinking the last couple of days. They use the facial recognition technology in many different ways. One of the major ones is in watching for terrorists to come into the country through the airlines.
If they had the technology installed at the missing and exploited, doe network, and North American missing organizations- I wonder how successful it would be with matching to the sketches and reconstructions they do? Or could software be developed that takes the measurements they use in the reconstructions, and somehow use it in making comparisons of pictures of the missing? I don't know enough about the technology aspect to know if this is already being used, or if anyone is working on it. But if they had something like this, and loaded the various databases and ran checks on all of them, it could make the process so much faster.

I'm glad I found this thread. I have thought a lot about the software from Homeland Security and how it may be applied to help with missing persons. Maybe the overwhelming number of those missing would make this impractical, but what about using it for AMBER ALERTS and recent missing/abducted? It would be wonderful if this was at least attempted. It wasn't long ago that the idea of a national database on DNA was a dream and before that when a national database of fingerprints was beyond imagination. Anyone else thinking about this? Can anyone think of how this might work, or why it wouldn't work? I'd love to brainstorm this idea.

 

[AfterMidnight]

Glad you resurrected this thread, I find it interesting to say the least.

I don't believe any national database which collects fingerprints of EVERYONE would be a good idea. Would work great for missing and UID however.

I'm wondering why we don't start our own group right here to work on cases. There seems to be no lack of VERY talented people.

Feedback anyone?

 

[Kelly]

For close to two years now, I have begged for volunteers for the Campaign for the Missing. While it's not the magic pill or resolution for all that ails our cause, having it in place would put us much closer to a remedy. This, in combination with the new NamUs sites, can start to bring us out of the dark ages when it comes to the missing and unidentified.

There are already some working on national legislation, but that may be harder and take longer. We knew back in 2005 when we met with all the gov, FBI, ME's, LE, Coroners, scientists, etc in Philadelphia about this, that it was not going to be an overnight solution. Each step brings us closer. Anyway, in the meantime, we need serious and dedicated people to help get it passed at state level. (see link above)