The Official Websleuths Investigative Book Club Book #2 - Confessions Of A serial Killer: The Untold Story of Dennis Rader, the BTK Killer.

[tricia]

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[OneLove]

Okay. 46 minutes. I will enjoy the discussion from others. I am out on this one.

Oh no; did you quit because the audio felt like stepping down into the pits of hell and you dont want to be infected by that? I totally got that myself from only 5 minutes of the "voice" that felt creepily infected with BTK's demented spirit.

In all these years since he stalked then attacked me in a public place & I went into shock learning who he actually was from the televised allocution, I've been unable to read or watch any of the various things about him.

Looking into his demented eyes from 12-16 inches from my face in 1985 and seeing there was nothing of "human" in him, at least in that moment, changed how I "walk" in this life.

The awareness that there are monsters walking among us disguised as human gave me a built-in hyper-awareness sensor that changed me forever. For example, I don't walk out of a store without pausing to see who is sitting in every car within view & I literally detour around some for safety. I've even entered on the passenger side at times and climbed over to the driver's seat after quickly locking the doors. Its been 40 years now... but it still hangs with me.

After stumbling on this thread by accident, I decided this is finally the time to look back and slay the dragon that has followed me through life since 1985. I scanned all the links online that pertained to books, articles, & documentaries about him then took a peak at and a listen of a few just ladt night. I quickly learned that audible allows too much & too deep an insertion of the demented into my being and that reading instead helps provide a bit of a shield between "IT" and my soul being.

I did eventually read just a bit about Ramsland's work with and about him and greatly admire what she has done and how it helps us to better understand those who walk among us disguised as human, or maybe only "part human" at selected times.

I'm hoping, by reading her book, I can be guided back to living a day to day life less "infected" by whatever the hell that was I saw in his eyes that day that terrified and sickened me and radically changed my life forever.

Since that assault is a large part of why I have used Websleuths for these many years as a self-soothing non-pharmaceutical means of both affirmation AND reassurance, I am amazed at the coincidence of both the choice of THIS book for the book club AND my stumbling "by accident" onto this thread. It also seems no accident I was lead to it while searching for a member here who is a trauma specialist. Thanks again, angelainwi. Maybe its a sign that the time has come?

I'm thankful to be doing this in the company of those of you who seek both understanding and a deeper level of awareness of such pathological creatures. I know not to ever *really* feel safe, but this feels *more* safe than all these 40 years past so thank you all for being here. ~♡~

 

[mickey2942]

Oh no; did you quit because the audio felt like stepping down into the pits of hell and you dont want to be infected by that? I totally got that myself from only 5 minutes of the "voice" that felt creepily infected with BTK's demented spirit.

In all these years since he stalked then attacked me in a public place & I went into shock learning who he actually was from the televised allocution, I've been unable to read or watch any of the various things about him.

Looking into his demented eyes from 12-16 inches from my face in 1985 and seeing there was nothing of "human" in him, at least in that moment, changed how I "walk" in this life.

The awareness that there are monsters walking among us disguised as human gave me a built-in hyper-awareness sensor that changed me forever. For example, I don't walk out of a store without pausing to see who is sitting in every car within view & I literally detour around some for safety. I've even entered on the passenger side at times and climbed over to the driver's seat after quickly locking the doors. Its been 40 years now... but it still hangs with me.

After stumbling on this thread by accident, I decided this is finally the time to look back and slay the dragon that has followed me through life since 1985. I scanned all the links online that pertained to books, articles, & documentaries about him then took a peak at and a listen of a few just ladt night. I quickly learned that audible allows too much & too deep an insertion of the demented into my being and that reading instead helps provide a bit of a shield between "IT" and my soul being.

I did eventually read just a bit about Ramsland's work with and about him and greatly admire what she has done and how it helps us to better understand those who walk among us disguised as human, or maybe only "part human" at selected times.

I'm hoping, by reading her book, I can be guided back to living a day to day life less "infected" by whatever the hell that was I saw in his eyes that day that terrified and sickened me and radically changed my life forever.

Since that assault is a large part of why I have used Websleuths for these many years as a self-soothing non-pharmaceutical means of both affirmation AND reassurance, I am amazed at the coincidence of both the choice of THIS book for the book club AND my stumbling "by accident" onto this thread. It also seems no accident I was lead to it while searching for a member here who is a trauma specialist. Thanks again, angelainwi. Maybe its a sign that the time has come?

I'm thankful to be doing this in the company of those of you who seek both understanding and a deeper level of awareness of such pathological creatures. I know not to ever *really* feel safe, but this feels *more* safe than all these 40 years past so thank you all for being here. ~♡~

Wow. Thanks for sharing so much. I could only find the audio at the library. And you are right, audio does seem to imprint on me more than reading for some reason.

I just didn't want to learn about BTK and his symbolism, and while Ramsland did refer to BTK having a "developmental disability". I actually inferred from her immersion into BTK's life, head, and even his twisted psyche, some sort of "crush" about him and his symbolism. BTK is NOT a "Minatour". He keeps trying to separate himself from his behavior. I just can't do it.

I would be interested if Dr. Ramsland ever writes about Bryan Kohberger.

I was more impressed with Dr. Samenow's writing about criminals, because foremost, he refers to them as "criminals". There is no admiration for their thought process or executions. They are always "Criminals". He refers to them as "criminals". It may be dehumanizing them, but really, do we want to "humanize" criminals?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/contributors/stanton-e-samenow-phd?page=21

 

[DustysMom]

I'm so sorry. I understand how truly disturbing it can be. It is subhuman. Please protect your psyche while you venture into this.

I was assaulted by him in 1985, long before anyone knew who he was. It was in a public place and I had my face right up close to his as he had pushed me against a wall. So I got a long long look into it's demented eyes from about 12 inches. He just... wasn't there... whatever "it" was that had control of his eyes and brain was from another dimension, and was being very active inside his eyes... It was more disturbing than I can describe. I knew that IT had already killed and IT would kill again. I insisted as much so vehemently to the police that they had a sketch artist come in to draw him based on my description.

My best friend and her husband at the time were professional counselors at a local mental health center. A year or so later she told me I was still way too affected by that "handsy" sexual assault by a common pervert in a public place. I told her "but you didnt look into his eyes, that robotic demon is a serial killer."

Over the years my career changed and I moved 6 times to 3 different states and my terror softened as I was so very busy.

We were all taken totally by surprise and gutted when ~15 years later the guy they arrested as btk the serial killer turned out to be HIM. I never connected the guy I heard about vaguely several states over until I SAW him as his allocution was televised. I went into shock.

I did eventually call the lead investigator, who was very kind, to ask for my dog's collar back and we had a very nice conversation and he gave me some heartfelt advice. He had clearly been very affected himself. Chewbacca the Redbone Wookie Dog, Chewy for short, had his name and my phone number on his collar. But they couldn't release anything that had been taken into evidence. He assured me I didn't want to touch ANYTHING that monster had ever touched. I suppose that was good advice, but damn, that monster DEFILED my beloved dog's collar.

That ... that freaking demented ... ..

I really would like to know what made him that way... I think thats why I've studied cases here at Websleuths through all these years, looking for the often unanswerable whys...

I’m blown away, One Love. I am so very sorry that this happened to you. I am in awe at how you have dealt with this frightening and life altering experience. You are a warrior in my book.

 

[DustysMom]

Granted, I’ve only listened to a couple hours but I noted that BTK read old Detective magazines and was very influenced by some of the articles. I watched the movie with Charlie Hunnan based on Ed Gein - Gein, too, was intrigued by old Detective magazines, specifically articles about a female Nazi who (supposedly) used human remains for home decor.
Were these magazines considered risqué for their time? Or, were they just dramatic fiction targeted at teen boys?

 

[Lynle0219]

I can only listen to this in small doses, and not one I would listen to when trying to sleep. I am only on Chapter 2, and I am already disturbed by the description of his first murder of a family. I pray for all his victims, their families, and his family. Just wow!

 

[OneLove]

Granted, I’ve only listened to a couple hours but I noted that BTK read old Detective magazines and was very influenced by some of the articles. I watched the movie with Charlie Hunnan based on Ed Gein - Gein, too, was intrigued by old Detective magazines, specifically articles about a female Nazi who (supposedly) used human remains for home decor.
Were these magazines considered risqué for their time? Or, were they just dramatic fiction targeted at teen boys?

I tend to think anything that "gets a rise" out of young boys, if ykwim, who are the precipice of just forming their sexual imprint, can twist their sexuality. I'd bet that Nazi sadistic woman turned him on in his budding years and it grew from there. I'm curious at what age he tortured and killed his first animal and if he was, himself, tortured by a father who was overly enthusiastic in his discipline. The biochemicals released during beatings are... interesting. Endorphins, dopamine, testosterone... can have a big effect on a boys sexual imprint, not to mention the anger it can generate.

 

[cujenn81]

I tend to think anything that "gets a rise" out of young boys, if ykwim, who are the precipice of just forming their sexual imprint, can twist their sexuality. I'd bet that Nazi sadistic woman turned him on in his budding years and it grew from there. I'm curious at what age he tortured and killed his first animal and if he was, himself, tortured by a father who was overly enthusiastic in his discipline. The biochemicals released during beatings are... interesting. Endorphins, dopamine, testosterone... can have a big effect on a boys sexual imprint, not to mention the anger it can generate.

I’m only up to chapter 4, but he hasn’t spoken ill of his father so far. He’s described him as strict and hardworking but that’s about it. If anything, I get the impression that he harbored a weird mix of perverted attraction and resentment towards his mother.

He’s mentioned a few instances when his mom disciplined him by holding him down and whipping him with a belt or a switch. One incident occurred when she found dirty underwear with semen stains in the laundry. She disciplined him for masturbating, which he found humiliating. He also thought his mom was a traitor for telling his grandparents about it. At the same time, he described being held down and whipped by his mother as a pleasurable experience even though it hurt. It’s quite disturbing to read, TBH. He even recalled rubbing the satin of his grandmother’s hair ribbons while lying in bed with her as a child and then later stealing her ribbons to masturbate with them as a teenager.

He also felt like his mom ignored them (he and his brothers) a lot — she spent a lot of time reading instead of engaging with them. He said his mom resented them because she wanted a girl but got 4 boys instead.

I can’t find a specific age for the animal cruelty, but he admits that he lured and killed cats by hanging them in sacks.

 

[OneLove]

I’m only up to chapter 4, but he hasn’t spoken ill of his father so far. He’s described him as strict and hardworking but that’s about it. If anything, I get the impression that he harbored a weird mix of perverted attraction and resentment towards his mother.

He’s mentioned a few instances when his mom disciplined him by holding him down and whipping him with a belt or a switch. One incident occurred when she found dirty underwear with semen stains in the laundry. She disciplined him for masturbating, which he found humiliating. He also thought his mom was a traitor for telling his grandparents about it. At the same time, he described being held down and whipped by his mother as a pleasurable experience even though it hurt. It’s quite disturbing to read, TBH. He even recalled rubbing the satin of his grandmother’s hair ribbons while lying in bed with her as a child and then later stealing her ribbons to masturbate with them as a teenager.

He also felt like his mom ignored them (he and his brothers) a lot — she spent a lot of time reading instead of engaging with them. He said his mom resented them because she wanted a girl but got 4 boys instead.

I can’t find a specific age for the animal cruelty, but he admits that he lured and killed cats by hanging them in sacks.

Wow; thanks for this report so far. That he had already matured to the point of being able to masterbate AND his mom whipped him for it, bare butt no less, AND the mix of chemicals surging through his veins from that, AND not being able to control the chemical process that had control of his body in those moments, AND that he likely already had developed a fascination with detective & spy
literature, its not hard to see how this could badly mess up a young boy. What a convergence of unholy storms. It could well explain the dissociative affect I saw in him, as though someone else inhabited his body shell.

So now I'm even more curious about how he lost his very humanity in the process. Many people have odd fetishes & fantasies & traumas & mental illnesses & manage to integrate them into a well managed life without causing harm to others. As long as they're functioning in their chosen life, why ever give a thought to what anyone's weird proclivities might be & we mostly have zero inclination to know.

But that "whatever" that looked back at me as I looked back at it did not look human at all, truly as though a monster from another dimension had come to inhabit that body. It just looked like a facade of a human body with another presence in control of it. It just stood there, obviously robotically living a vivid internal experience as I stood frozen in shock, locked eye to eye. I now know the kinds of things that creature from another world was visualizing. I felt it in my bones.

While its been the most disturbing experience in my life (thankfully so & counting my blessings), at least I was vindicated &, yay, NOT a crazy woman for insisting so vehemently that my assaulter had already killed & would kill again & they just HAD to find him to save innocent lives. I begged & I was NOT an overwrought crazy woman! Yay me!!

Earlier the same day as my assault, when the very kind water department worker in the ball cap knocked on my front door to return my dog to me, *those* ball capped clipboard eyes seemed normal enough to not cause any hackles at all other than that his eyes scanned past the door & around the room until they noticed the security system.. Nice man had called from the treatment plant after watching my dog swim in the retention pond & go under several times so long he was sure he'd drowned, until he was finally close enough to reach him & drag him out BY THE COLLAR, whereupon he found my number on it and called, offering to bring him to me. I told him I'd be there in only 5 minutes but, no, he insisted I couldn't come get him because he was locking up & leaving right then. I gave him my address. Friendly little town and all.

It took me MANY YEARS after 1st seeing him on tv to even realize he was the VERY SAME MAN as the nice water dept man who had so kindly rescued Chewy from the treatment pond. The 2 men looked nothing the same, even on the same day. Like dissociative split personalities, the way they each moved & gestured, the whole spirit essence, was just different. And of course, a different shirt, no ball cap with hair hidden in it, no clipboard. They finessed totally differently, one robotically vacant, the other warm & kind, though authoritatively insistent which I took to be from cconcern for my dog so no problem there.

Also, I didn't even realize they were one & the same CONSCIOUSLY through my analytical thinking brain. It came only after my dear friend, that lifelong mental health counselor, by phone from across the continent by now, asked me the oddest question of all, or so I thought it was: WHY was I at looking at dog collars at the store that day when i was assaulted?. Duh. How would I know, by now 30+ years later? And what an odd question to ask anyway. Hah. I thought & thought & just couldn't remember. Then I woke up in the middle of that night about 60 feet away from my bed, scratching the wall in a corner of a powder room as high as I could reach my arms & screaming bloody murder. It was my own screams that woke me up & my husband who was shaking me.

And than I woke up just KNOWING. Holy hello, water dept guy and demented serial killer guy were one & the same person & I had gone to buy a dog collar because killer guy TOLD me to,. Holy hell, serial killer had been at MY HOUSE earlier the very same day. And I had KIDS, yikes.

Those 2 men, it was like they each just happened to inhabit the same body suit. I had the hardest time reconciling that *nice guy* was also *serial killer guy*.

And here's the kicker: why did I NOT REALIZE all those years that nice water dept guy couldn't possibly have even called me to get my address to bring Chewy home unless he HAD that collar with my number on it, the one he claimed had slipped off & sank when pulling him out of the retention pond. I went as soon as he left my front porch to go buy a new one *because* he had spoken with such a firm authoritative voice when he said "you need to go get him a new collar right away". Pretty sure he also said that right after his scanning eyes noticed the ADT console on my wall that the former owners had installed but which I had never bothered to hook up.

He did say at his televised allocution that there were some very lucky women "out there" that he stalked but didnt kill. I felt like he was saying that directly to me, and I had only JUST THEN seen him on tv & saw that he WAS that one who assaulted me in 1985 and that I had KNOWN in my bones had already killed & would kill again. My heart nearly failed
I had been so desperate to save those women who were out there in the world unsuspecting. It was a hard thing to live with, knowing innocent people would still die at his hands, knowing he was out there, walking among the humans masked as human.

Okie dokie now, that has to be the all time worst bedtime story I'll ever tell, lol. Past my bedtime here so off I go. And thanks for being here. And reporting in. I tried but haven't been able to order the book yet. I keep asking myself "do I really want to go there?". I've kinda been there already, in those hollow but busy inhumane eyes. "Will I gain from this" I keep asking myself. Your excellent review of the first 4 chapters just answered that I think. As a long long ago social worker & later juvenile justice worker, you've given me empathy for the innocent child he once was before life tortured the humanity out of him. I'll sleep better for that. He was human at one point in life. All children are. And we must do better for our children, collectively speaking. We simply must. It costs too much to not. Clearly. ~♡~

 

[cujenn81]

Wow; thanks for this report so far. That he had already matured to the point of being able to masterbate AND his mom whipped him for it, bare butt no less, AND the mix of chemicals surging through his veins from that, AND not being able to control the chemical process that had control of his body in those moments, AND that he likely already had developed a fascination with detective & spy
literature, its not hard to see how this could badly mess up a young boy. What a convergence of unholy storms. It could well explain the dissociative affect I saw in him, as though someone else inhabited his body shell.

So now I'm even more curious about how he lost his very humanity in the process. Many people have odd fetishes & fantasies & traumas & mental illnesses & manage to integrate them into a well managed life without causing harm to others. As long as they're functioning in their chosen life, why ever give a thought to what anyone's weird proclivities might be & we mostly have zero inclination to know.

But that "whatever" that looked back at me as I looked back at it did not look human at all, truly as though a monster from another dimension had come to inhabit that body. It just looked like a facade of a human body with another presence in control of it. It just stood there, obviously robotically living a vivid internal experience as I stood frozen in shock, locked eye to eye. I now know the kinds of things that creature from another world was visualizing. I felt it in my bones.

While its been the most disturbing experience in my life (thankfully so & counting my blessings), at least I was vindicated &, yay, NOT a crazy woman for insisting so vehemently that my assaulter had already killed & would kill again & they just HAD to find him to save innocent lives. I begged & I was NOT an overwrought crazy woman! Yay me!!

Earlier the same day as my assault, when the very kind water department worker in the ball cap knocked on my front door to return my dog to me, *those* ball capped clipboard eyes seemed normal enough to not cause any hackles at all other than that his eyes scanned past the door & around the room until they noticed the security system.. Nice man had called from the treatment plant after watching my dog swim in the retention pond & go under several times so long he was sure he'd drowned, until he was finally close enough to reach him & drag him out BY THE COLLAR, whereupon he found my number on it and called, offering to bring him to me. I told him I'd be there in only 5 minutes but, no, he insisted I couldn't come get him because he was locking up & leaving right then. I gave him my address. Friendly little town and all.

It took me MANY YEARS after 1st seeing him on tv to even realize he was the VERY SAME MAN as the nice water dept man who had so kindly rescued Chewy from the treatment pond. The 2 men looked nothing the same, even on the same day. Like dissociative split personalities, the way they each moved & gestured, the whole spirit essence, was just different. And of course, a different shirt, no ball cap with hair hidden in it, no clipboard. They finessed totally differently, one robotically vacant, the other warm & kind, though authoritatively insistent which I took to be from cconcern for my dog so no problem there.

Also, I didn't even realize they were one & the same CONSCIOUSLY through my analytical thinking brain. It came only after my dear friend, that lifelong mental health counselor, by phone from across the continent by now, asked me the oddest question of all, or so I thought it was: WHY was I at looking at dog collars at the store that day when i was assaulted?. Duh. How would I know, by now 30+ years later? And what an odd question to ask anyway. Hah. I thought & thought & just couldn't remember. Then I woke up in the middle of that night about 60 feet away from my bed, scratching the wall in a corner of a powder room as high as I could reach my arms & screaming bloody murder. It was my own screams that woke me up & my husband who was shaking me.

And than I woke up just KNOWING. Holy hello, water dept guy and demented serial killer guy were one & the same person & I had gone to buy a dog collar because killer guy TOLD me to,. Holy hell, serial killer had been at MY HOUSE earlier the very same day. And I had KIDS, yikes.

Those 2 men, it was like they each just happened to inhabit the same body suit. I had the hardest time reconciling that *nice guy* was also *serial killer guy*.

And here's the kicker: why did I NOT REALIZE all those years that nice water dept guy couldn't possibly have even called me to get my address to bring Chewy home unless he HAD that collar with my number on it, the one he claimed had slipped off & sank when pulling him out of the retention pond. I went as soon as he left my front porch to go buy a new one *because* he had spoken with such a firm authoritative voice when he said "you need to go get him a new collar right away". Pretty sure he also said that right after his scanning eyes noticed the ADT console on my wall that the former owners had installed but which I had never bothered to hook up.

He did say at his televised allocution that there were some very lucky women "out there" that he stalked but didnt kill. I felt like he was saying that directly to me, and I had only JUST THEN seen him on tv & saw that he WAS that one who assaulted me in 1985 and that I had KNOWN in my bones had already killed & would kill again. My heart nearly failed
I had been so desperate to save those women who were out there in the world unsuspecting. It was a hard thing to live with, knowing innocent people would still die at his hands, knowing he was out there, walking among the humans masked as human.

Okie dokie now, that has to be the all time worst bedtime story I'll ever tell, lol. Past my bedtime here so off I go. And thanks for being here. And reporting in. I tried but haven't been able to order the book yet. I keep asking myself "do I really want to go there?". I've kinda been there already, in those hollow but busy inhumane eyes. "Will I gain from this" I keep asking myself. Your excellent review of the first 4 chapters just answered that I think. As a long long ago social worker & later juvenile justice worker, you've given me empathy for the innocent child he once was before life tortured the humanity out of him. I'll sleep better for that. He was human at one point in life. All children are. And we must do better for our children, collectively speaking. We simply must. It costs too much to not. Clearly. ~♡~

You are spot on about fetishes and fantasies. In fact, Ramsland goes into a bit of detail about this in the book.

Here’s an excerpt about it —

Spoiler: Spoiler - Short Excerpt from Chapter 4

Paraphilias develop as the sexual instinct gets coupled with other experiences. Once set, they become the primary form of arousal and it becomes difficult to shift to more normal experiences. Bruce Arrigo and Catherine Purcell write that children who experience upsetting or frightening events might withdraw into fantasies and daydreams, which then shape their developmental process. They escape a reality in which their lack of control upsets them, and find a form of control in a world in which their needs are central. Dissociating from reality becomes increasingly easier, even preferable. Those fantasies that become violent, according to criminologist Eric Hickey, are attempts to feel in control and raise self-esteem. Self-pity, loss of confidence, or an inability to accept criticism or rejection can all be triggers. Paraphilias develop from fantasies that feel good, and then reinforce them in a feedback loop. There are hundreds of paraphilias. Rader’s paraphilias, while shocking, are not extraordinary. More perverse paraphilias include an attraction to dead bodies or body parts, wanting insects to bite the genitals, craving to be trussed up and basted like a turkey, a desire to consume another person, and arousal from being smeared with waste products.

Paraphilias are not chosen. They happen as experience and biology fuse. Paraphilias are not criminal unless they become coercive on non-consenting parties or the person abuses protected items (e.g., bodies). There comes a tipping point for some, where fantasy evolves into action. Many serial killers force victims to do things that will enact the fantasy and satisfy the need. Erotophonophilia—lust murder—is one of the most extreme forms of paraphilic behavior in which the offender is aroused by both the act and the fact of murder. When a sexual fantasy is attached to a psychological drive, the need to satisfy it becomes both complex and urgent, motivating compulsive and repetitive crimes.

Typically intelligent, lust killers develop a solitary existence (even if married) where fantasy plays a strong role. They usually plan the murder. Often, the energy they direct at a victim is infused with anger, which might be aimed at a primary caretaker. However, there is no single causal factor in the development of a lust killer. Dr. Louis Schlesinger, a psychologist and expert on sexual lust murders, states that attempts to predict the development of lust killers are complicated. There are no clear threats, they are not psychotic, and they might not show violent tendencies. Yet in the background of many, Schlesinger has noted specific red flags. Abuse or serious neglect during childhood tops the list, followed by sexually inappropriate conduct by the mother or female caretaker, and a strong tendency to lie and manipulate for no reason (aside from gamesmanship). The emergence of sadistic fantasies, usually in secret, may be revealed in therapy sessions or in drawings or writings. Then animal abuse or repetitive fire-setting might be evident, as well as the need to dominate other kids. There might also be indications of a developing paraphilia or ritual behavior, as well as voyeurism and sexual burglary. In addition, unprovoked attacks against girls indicate anger, and ritual behavior in other areas of life signals the need for control. These children show low levels of empathy, and they often grew up in chaotic or behaviorally inappropriate homes.

Of these ten items, we find at least half to be true for Rader. It is not difficult to trace how he developed an erotic attachment to the items that he identifies: women’s underclothing, ropes, binding, helplessness, and experiencing another person’s sense of impending death. When he was busy with ordinary activities (church, employment, friends, classes), his deviance receded, but certain images that were easily available in catalogs or men’s magazines could trigger these fantasies, especially if he were frustrated, depressed, or bored.

 

[Insightful1]

What does everyone think of the book so far ?

 

[NeilC]

What does everyone think of the book so far ?

I appreciate all of the comments so far. I’m listening to the audiobook and it’s definitely intense. My first thoughts about Ramsland’s approach is that she is a very patient person! Interpreting all of the killer’s code had to be difficult. I appreciate how she told the readers to come back to the beginning and the introduction to the code-breaking after we’ve finished the book in order for it all to make sense.

Also, the first murder (the Otero’s) was so hard to listen to. I’ve read “The Inside Story” by the 4 reporters who covered the BTK case so I knew about the Otero family but to hear the killer describe the event was chilling. So I guess to answer your question @Insightful1, I appreciate the depth and breadth of this book so far, and I also appreciate Ramsland’s effort to further our understanding of the mind of a serial killer, I’ll have to listen in fairly small doses. Spending this much time focused on a mediocre, disgusting and evil man is tough.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I’m reading the book. It’s intense reading it, I’m not sure I would like the audiobook.
What a vile monster!

 

[cujenn81]

The book is definitely different than most due to its “guided autobiography” format. I think I’ve only read one other book in this format, and that was “Final Truth” — a book co-written by the serial killer Pee Wee Gaskins and a journalist named Wilton Earle. It was also VERY intense (in fact, it’s way more graphic than this one). I’ve found parts of “Confessions of a Serial Killer” to be somewhat repetitive, but I think that’s just the result of Rader repeating things in his letters to Ramsland over time.

I’m also stunned by how many careless mistakes and dumb decisions Rader made during the commission of his first two murders. Contrary to what I’m sure he believes, his ability to evade the police was nothing more than dumb luck.

And I know it may be crass to admit this… but every time I read about how he hung himself for autoerotic asphyxiation purposes, I can’t help but think that it’s really too bad he didn’t accidentally kill himself in the process.

 

[angelainwi]

Oh no; did you quit because the audio felt like stepping down into the pits of hell and you dont want to be infected by that? I totally got that myself from only 5 minutes of the "voice" that felt creepily infected with BTK's demented spirit.

In all these years since he stalked then attacked me in a public place & I went into shock learning who he actually was from the televised allocution, I've been unable to read or watch any of the various things about him.

Looking into his demented eyes from 12-16 inches from my face in 1985 and seeing there was nothing of "human" in him, at least in that moment, changed how I "walk" in this life.

The awareness that there are monsters walking among us disguised as human gave me a built-in hyper-awareness sensor that changed me forever. For example, I don't walk out of a store without pausing to see who is sitting in every car within view & I literally detour around some for safety. I've even entered on the passenger side at times and climbed over to the driver's seat after quickly locking the doors. Its been 40 years now... but it still hangs with me.

After stumbling on this thread by accident, I decided this is finally the time to look back and slay the dragon that has followed me through life since 1985. I scanned all the links online that pertained to books, articles, & documentaries about him then took a peak at and a listen of a few just ladt night. I quickly learned that audible allows too much & too deep an insertion of the demented into my being and that reading instead helps provide a bit of a shield between "IT" and my soul being.

I did eventually read just a bit about Ramsland's work with and about him and greatly admire what she has done and how it helps us to better understand those who walk among us disguised as human, or maybe only "part human" at selected times.

I'm hoping, by reading her book, I can be guided back to living a day to day life less "infected" by whatever the hell that was I saw in his eyes that day that terrified and sickened me and radically changed my life forever.

Since that assault is a large part of why I have used Websleuths for these many years as a self-soothing non-pharmaceutical means of both affirmation AND reassurance, I am amazed at the coincidence of both the choice of THIS book for the book club AND my stumbling "by accident" onto this thread. It also seems no accident I was lead to it while searching for a member here who is a trauma specialist. Thanks again, angelainwi. Maybe its a sign that the time has come?

I'm thankful to be doing this in the company of those of you who seek both understanding and a deeper level of awareness of such pathological creatures. I know not to ever *really* feel safe, but this feels *more* safe than all these 40 years past so thank you all for being here. ~♡~

I would definitely take it as a sign that it is time. I can tell you are ready to do it. No one is ever totally ready, but there always comes a time and sometimes that comes with signs. I am rooting for lots of AHA moments for you and even though at times it will be painful, I PROMISE that it is so worth it. I promise you can offload the worst of it and feel lighter as a result. I am here if you ever need to chat. You can do this! It can sometimes hurt so good. Have you come across the term "post-trauma growth". I think you will be one to achieve that. Sorry that I just saw your comment now.

 

[maamager]

Just started, on chapter two. difficult read…

 

[Tippy Lynn]

The book is definitely different than most due to its “guided autobiography” format. I think I’ve only read one other book in this format, and that was “Final Truth” — a book co-written by the serial killer Pee Wee Gaskins and a journalist named Wilton Earle. It was also VERY intense (in fact, it’s way more graphic than this one). I’ve found parts of “Confessions of a Serial Killer” to be somewhat repetitive, but I think that’s just the result of Rader repeating things in his letters to Ramsland over time.

I’m also stunned by how many careless mistakes and dumb decisions Rader made during the commission of his first two murders. Contrary to what I’m sure he believes, his ability to evade the police was nothing more than dumb luck.

And I know it may be crass to admit this… but every time I read about how he hung himself for autoerotic asphyxiation purposes, I can’t help but think that it’s really too bad he didn’t accidentally kill himself in the process.

I was also stunned by how careless he was. With all the camera’s around now he would have been caught much sooner. I’m interested to see if he was less careless further into the book. I thought the same thing regarding him accidentally going to far during his autoerotic asphyxiation.

 

[Lynle0219]

What does everyone think of the book so far ?

Good Morning, it's intense. I can only listen to this in small doses.

 

[LadyDragonBorn]

Just started the new book. Finding this one a lot easier to get into than the first book. Peeked my interest straight away.
Something I learned today..........my 9 year old son shares a birthday with btk .

 

[OneLove]

I would definitely take it as a sign that it is time. I can tell you are ready to do it. No one is ever totally ready, but there always comes a time and sometimes that comes with signs. I am rooting for lots of AHA moments for you and even though at times it will be painful, I PROMISE that it is so worth it. I promise you can offload the worst of it and feel lighter as a result. I am here if you ever need to chat. You can do this! It can sometimes hurt so good. Have you come across the term "post-trauma growth". I think you will be one to achieve that. Sorry that I just saw your comment now.

Thank you for these words. I do look forward to the 'post trauma growth'. And, as it seems to me in *this* moment, the "worst of it" has been living with knowing that depraved killers walk amongst us disguised as friendly human beings. Not just people doing bad things (like robbing and raping) but KILLING for pleasure.

I dont expect this book, once I get to it, will walk back my hyper awareness, nor would I want it to. But I do miss thinking the worst that could happen when walking from a store to my car is being mugged for my bags or even my car. I'm always envious when a friend with me just thinks about suspicious looking peeps who might want their purchase while I'm having visions of a kidnapping, terror, & brutal torturous horror, pain, & senseless murder for PLEASURE.

Please, take my bags, take my car. I'll be fine and even wish you healing and good will on your journey through life. But its the sheer monstrosity of murder hidden behind friendly caring eyes that has changed my awareness as I walk through daily life.

Its been many many years now since DR happened to waltz across my path. I've always wondered exactly what it was about me that caught his interest so I could be very sure to never DO that again or BE that again. I'm almost sure he first saw me at a community college where there was a fiddlers convention event open to the public. There must have been 300 or more people milling around and wandering from room to room. He had to have followed me home and seen that I had a friendly fluffy golden retriever. The water department was halfway between that community college and my house. My house had small acreage with no development at all in front of it or behind it, only wooded and pastured green space. How easy it would have been for him.... except he was away from home and likely with his family, and maybe grandfather who played fiddle, and his absence would have been missed by someone.

Coincidentally, that was also where my kids and I first saw Alison Krauss who was just a little girl then. It would have been in just an ordinary classroom with seats for maybe 25-30, with people meandering in and out at will. Those of us who stayed KNEW that little girl was going places. She was a phenomenon. Wow. I remember that like it was yesterday. My son played violin at that time and my husband, his father, had helped organize the annual event in his job as Director of Student Activities. Its been fun to watch her career over the years. I believe her grandfather also played, taught her, and brought her there.