The oversized Bloomingdale’s panties.

[UKGuy]

I'd love to know why the package was not taken as evidence on the initial police search? Did they simply not see the importance of them? Did they not find them? Or were they simply not in the house? I'm sure that team Ramsey figured that after 5 years, any evidentiary value was gone and that providing them to LE would again show how the Ramsey's were cooperating with LE lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

andreww,
Well they were not in JonBenet's underwear drawer, which is where Patsy claimed to have put them.

So patently one of the R's removed the size-12's from wherever they were located!

The big clue is that Patsy never really knew about the size-12's until prior to her interview on this subject, otherwise if she did she would have had a more convincing story to tell, she just made stuff up as she went along and forgot whatever never fitted her story.

That is, Patsy is telling a story about the size-12's to cover for another R who redressed JonBenet in them.

It could be BR who left JonBenet in the size-12's and pink barbie nightgown, later replaced by, say JR with the longjohns and white gap top?

The pink barbie nightgown and the white blanket are bloodstained with JonBenet's blood, suggesting a common factor that should not have arisen if either were random objects that arrived after JonBenet was cleaned up?

I'd love to know why the package was not taken as evidence on the initial police search?

Either because they were well hidden or removed by the Intruder.

I always speculated if Patsy had placed them with her own underwear, if so, I would have expected Patsy to have had a better explanation for JonBenet wearing a pair of size-12's?

.
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[MURDERER_SERVANT]

andreww,
Well they were not in JonBenet's underwear drawer, which is where Patsy claimed to have put them.

So patently one of the R's removed the size-12's from wherever they were located!

The big clue is that Patsy never really knew about the size-12's until prior to her interview on this subject, otherwise if she did she would have had a more convincing story to tell, she just made stuff up as she went along and forgot whatever never fitted her story.

That is, Patsy is telling a story about the size-12's to cover for another R who redressed JonBenet in them.

It could be BR who left JonBenet in the size-12's and pink barbie nightgown, later replaced by, say JR with the longjohns and white gap top?

The pink barbie nightgown and the white blanket are bloodstained with JonBenet's blood, suggesting a common factor that should not have arisen if either were random objects that arrived after JonBenet was cleaned up?


Either because they were well hidden or removed by the Intruder.

I always speculated if Patsy had placed them with her own underwear, if so, I would have expected Patsy to have had a better explanation for JonBenet wearing a pair of size-12's?

.
.

Yeah, It could be that the pink nightgown were changed by white gap top and longjohns by J .

Isn't it strange that both P and JB wore the same clothes from the prev day (JB white top only) . I wonder whether B and J wore the same clothes also?

My guess is that they tried to avoid any evidence that good link them to the murder?
How could they explain any evidence on new worn clothes ?
They weren't sure that LA couldn't find JB before them and LA could prevent them from touching and tampering the evidence . So P wore the same clothes, same as the gap top to JB and probably the others wore the same too.

 

[OliviaG1996]

Yeah, It could be that the pink nightgown were changed by white gap top and longjohns by J .

Isn't it strange that both P and JB wore the same clothes from the prev day (JB white top only) . I wonder whether B and J wore the same clothes also?

My guess is that they tried to avoid any evidence that good link them to the murder?
How could they explain any evidence on new worn clothes ?
They weren't sure that LA couldn't find JB before them and LA could prevent them from touching and tampering the evidence . So P wore the same clothes, same as the gap top to JB and probably the others wore the same too.

According to ST's book, PR had an inconsistent story when it came to what JBR wore to bed that night. On December 26th, she told LE that JBR wore the red turtleneck sweater to bed. Later, in her April 30, 1997 interview with the BPD, she said JBR wore the white Gap top to bed.

In my opinion, JBR probably wore the Barbie nightgown to bed, along with the longjohns. It was winter, so she may have been cold with the nightgown alone.

 

[Anti-K]

It seems that some people accept the panties being changed as fact. Well, it isn’t fact. If people want to pretend that it’s a fact for the sake of speculation – fine; no objections. But, it isn’t a fact. And, no, I’m not trying to start trouble or be contrarian, etc. It simply isn’t a fact.

The argument seems to be that jbr could not have worn the panties while alive because they were too large. But, the urine and the blood on the panties suggest that these were the panties that she was wearing when assaulted. Even the asphyxiation plays into this sequence because the assault occurred at or near point of death and the urination probably occurred at or near point of death. And, the body was wiped… when?

It just seems like the simple explanation here is that jbr put on the over-size panties.
…

AK

 

[Annapurna]

There was not the same amount of blood on the panties as was revealed to have been wiped from her legs during autopsy. Linda Ardnt's report as a witness to the autopsy states that a light was used which illuminated where fluid had been wiped from her inner thighs. It was originally thought to be semen, it was tested and revealed to be her own blood.

There were only two small spots of blood in the ridiculously oversized panties.

 

[DeeDee249]

The package containing the remaining size 12 panties (6 pairs from a set of 7 Day Of the Week panties) was never taken by police during the search of the home because police never found it. Police never found ANY panties in size 12 and never found any Day of the Week panties in JB's own size of 6. They did report removing panties from the home that were sized 4-6 and all that they found were stained with fecal stains. 5 years later the Rs sent the (alleged) remaining panties from Atlanta (where they were living) to Boulder LE via their lawyer. They claimed to have found them in an unpacked box from their move. This proved Patsy lied when she told police that she had placed the size 12 panties in JB's drawer and she "helped herself" to them, claiming she never put the too-large panties on her daughter. Police never found them in a drawer, and when they were returned 5 years later the remaining 6 pairs was still in the plastic gift pouch. Christmas that year (1996) was a Wednesday. JB was wearing panties that said "Wednesday". JB could not yet read, so she would not know what the panties said. If any of you have ever seen those novelty gift sets (I have) they are packed IN ORDER according to the days of the week, with Wednesday pair being in the middle of the tube. Therefore, it had to be a deliberate act to pull out the Wednesday pair. Coincidence? There are none, remember?

 

[icedtea4me]

It seems that some people accept the panties being changed as fact. Well, it isn’t fact. If people want to pretend that it’s a fact for the sake of speculation – fine; no objections. But, it isn’t a fact. And, no, I’m not trying to start trouble or be contrarian, etc. It simply isn’t a fact.

The argument seems to be that jbr could not have worn the panties while alive because they were too large. But, the urine and the blood on the panties suggest that these were the panties that she was wearing when assaulted. Even the asphyxiation plays into this sequence because the assault occurred at or near point of death and the urination probably occurred at or near point of death. And, the body was wiped… when?

It just seems like the simple explanation here is that jbr put on the over-size panties.
…

AK

Or how about JonBenet wore her usual size 4-6 underwear that day and the person who got her ready for bed dressed her in the size 12-14 for easier access.

 

[Anti-K]

There was not the same amount of blood on the panties as was revealed to have been wiped from her legs during autopsy. Linda Ardnt's report as a witness to the autopsy states that a light was used which illuminated where fluid had been wiped from her inner thighs. It was originally thought to be semen, it was tested and revealed to be her own blood.

There were only two small spots of blood in the ridiculously oversized panties.

Yes. The blood might have dripped onto the panties immediately after withdrawal of object or during the clean-up phase; or even after the wiping and the panties are pulled up.

The assault was at or near point of death.

She was, presumably, face up when wiped, with panties down.

She was face down when she urinated. She probably urinated at or near point of death.

So, when do you think the panties were changed?

It seems that if the panties were changed then she should have been found in clean panties, and dry leggings. She was found in the opposite. So, why do you think the panties were changed?
…

AK

 

[Anti-K]

The package containing the remaining size 12 panties (6 pairs from a set of 7 Day Of the Week panties) was never taken by police during the search of the home because police never found it. Police never found ANY panties in size 12 and never found any Day of the Week panties in JB's own size of 6. They did report removing panties from the home that were sized 4-6 and all that they found were stained with fecal stains. 5 years later the Rs sent the (alleged) remaining panties from Atlanta (where they were living) to Boulder LE via their lawyer. They claimed to have found them in an unpacked box from their move. This proved Patsy lied when she told police that she had placed the size 12 panties in JB's drawer and she "helped herself" to them, claiming she never put the too-large panties on her daughter. Police never found them in a drawer, and when they were returned 5 years later the remaining 6 pairs was still in the plastic gift pouch. Christmas that year (1996) was a Wednesday. JB was wearing panties that said "Wednesday". JB could not yet read, so she would not know what the panties said. If any of you have ever seen those novelty gift sets (I have) they are packed IN ORDER according to the days of the week, with Wednesday pair being in the middle of the tube. Therefore, it had to be a deliberate act to pull out the Wednesday pair. Coincidence? There are none, remember?

Not finding the panties doesn’t mean they weren’t there. They might have been overlooked, or maybe they were ignored because they were new and still in the package. Maybe BPD goofed cuz, you know, sometimes they did.

I don’t understand what is being proposed as reason for the Ramseys hiding the package. What are they supposed to have done with it; and, why? Someone help me make sense of this, please.
…

AK

 

[neesaki]

andreww,
Well they were not in JonBenet's underwear drawer, which is where Patsy claimed to have put them.

So patently one of the R's removed the size-12's from wherever they were located!

The big clue is that Patsy never really knew about the size-12's until prior to her interview on this subject, otherwise if she did she would have had a more convincing story to tell, she just made stuff up as she went along and forgot whatever never fitted her story.

That is, Patsy is telling a story about the size-12's to cover for another R who redressed JonBenet in them.

It could be BR who left JonBenet in the size-12's and pink barbie nightgown, later replaced by, say JR with the longjohns and white gap top?

The pink barbie nightgown and the white blanket are bloodstained with JonBenet's blood, suggesting a common factor that should not have arisen if either were random objects that arrived after JonBenet was cleaned up?


Either because they were well hidden or removed by the Intruder.

I always speculated if Patsy had placed them with her own underwear, if so, I would have expected Patsy to have had a better explanation for JonBenet wearing a pair of size-12's?

.
.

How confusing, I don't think I can even follow this, it's to the point that all it does is enforce my opinion about how screwed up that family was. Is that the jist? Or am I just tired and sick ? Yes I am.
ETA: Ok, and why would JB be in size 12 underwear, that Patsy claimed she didnt' know about? I for one always knew what size underwear my son wore when he was that age. If I ever found some larger size underwear in his drawer I would know about it Pronto. And think immediately, Hinky is Here. And, I would not allow him to wear something that didn't fit. That's all I can say about this, other than that this is very much a :gaah: moment.

 

[UKGuy]

How confusing, I don't think I can even follow this, it's to the point that all it does is enforce my opinion about how screwed up that family was. Is that the jist? Or am I just tired and sick ? Yes I am.
ETA: Ok, and why would JB be in size 12 underwear, that Patsy claimed she didnt' know about? I for one always knew what size underwear my son wore when he was that age. If I ever found some larger size underwear in his drawer I would know about it Pronto. And think immediately, Hinky is Here. And, I would not allow him to wear something that didn't fit. That's all I can say about this, other than that this is very much a :gaah: moment.

neesaki,
Nope, its not really confusing, its just Patsy's explanation which even IDI have to concede is convoluted, since you did the maths and came up with an AHAH moment!

.

 

[SweetT]

Yeah, It could be that the pink nightgown were changed by white gap top and longjohns by J .

Isn't it strange that both P and JB wore the same clothes from the prev day (JB white top only) . I wonder whether B and J wore the same clothes also?

My guess is that they tried to avoid any evidence that good link them to the murder?
How could they explain any evidence on new worn clothes ?
They weren't sure that LA couldn't find JB before them and LA could prevent them from touching and tampering the evidence . So P wore the same clothes, same as the gap top to JB and probably the others wore the same too.

Or you wear the same clothes cause you never slept that night and were up all night.

 

[Anti-K]

Or you wear the same clothes cause you never slept that night and were up all night.

Sorry, but I still chuckle over this one.
Even people who stay up all night change their clothes (particularly, those whose habit it is to change their clothes). And not everyone who is wearing the same clothes has stayed up all night.
…

AK

 

[Anti-K]

I don’t understand what is being proposed as reason for the Ramseys hiding the package of panties. What (and, when) are they supposed to have done with it; and, why? Someone help me make sense of this, please.
…

AK

 

[UKGuy]

I don’t understand what is being proposed as reason for the Ramseys hiding the package of panties. What (and, when) are they supposed to have done with it; and, why? Someone help me make sense of this, please.
…

AK

Anti-K,
mmm, RDI have no reason for hiding the package of panties. This is why they were caught out and people like you have to ask these questions?



.

 

[Tawny]

Sorry, but I still chuckle over this one.
Even people who stay up all night change their clothes (particularly, those whose habit it is to change their clothes). And not everyone who is wearing the same clothes has stayed up all night.
…

AK

PR doesn't seem the type to throw on dirty clothes from the day before.

 

[TeaTime]

Tidbit. Young women used to buy those day of the week Bloomies for themselves. A woman who normally wears a size 2-4 in slacks would easily fit into the size 12-14 panties. The panties came in packages of 7 but at the Christmas season there would be an extra panty included and the favorite among young women was the package with the extra "Wednesday" panty. My friends all had these Bloomies and the Wednesday package was for 'Hump Day', so as to change panties before going out to happy hour after work.

It is possible that PR bought these for herself, tried on one pair, realized she no longer fit into the panties and decided to wrap the package of remaining panties as a gift for Jennie. For all we know those panties could have been shipped for Christmas and is the reason the package could not be found in the house. It could be as simple as PR not wanting to tell anyone she was trying to wear little girl panties or that she had re-gifted something she couldn't use.

For whatever reason it was important to pretend that the panties were upstairs, tucked away in a drawer. Why?

Why did she lie and tell LE that she put all the other Bloomies in JBR's panty drawer? Because she had a habit of not telling the truth when she didn't know where the line of questioning would lead.

The simple fact is that the ONLY pair of size 12-14 Bloomies in the house were found on JBR's dead body. PR bought a whole package of them, JBR was dressed in a pair, none were in her drawer, none were found in the house and in fact, they disappeared until they were 'found' in Atlanta.

Like the pineapple, the panties became a mystery because the explanation did not fit with the story of what happened the night of 12/25.

 

[icedtea4me]

PR doesn't seem the type to throw on dirty clothes from the day before.

From Patsy's June 1998 BPD interview:

0019
1 know.
2 I put make up on and brushed my
3 hair but --
4 TOM HANEY: Let me steal that for a
5 second before --
6 PATSY RAMSEY: It's all over your
7 shirt, yeah.
8 TOM HANEY: So this would have not
9 been your normal routine, though, to put the
10 same clothes on?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, I do whatever
12 I want. I told you that. I mean if I had a
13 pair, you know, of black shorts on, you can wear
14 them two, three days, before I send them to the
15 dry cleaners. I might have changed the top or
16 something but --

So, according to her, she would have still worn the pants, but not the top/sweater.

 

[Anti-K]

Anti-K,
mmm, RDI have no reason for hiding the package of panties. This is why they were caught out and people like you have to ask these questions?



.

I thought RDI was saying that the Ramseys hid the package of new panties and that is why BPD didn’t find them.
…

AK

 

[UKGuy]

I thought RDI was saying that the Ramseys hid the package of new panties and that is why BPD didn’t find them.
…

AK

Anti-K,
mmm, according to BPD no size-12's were to be found in the house, and assuming they never flew out the window ...