The Phone Calls in the early morning of Dec.18, 2013 (both PayPhone & cells)

[UndiscoveredTruth]

I wonder.....

If Heather had VM set up on her phone --- there COULD HAVE BEEN CALLS SHOW UP ON THE LOG........even if her actual phone was destroyed/smashed to bits/etc.

The call log could show INCOMING calls (past the 3:41 time).

That could be why the initial 2-6 a.m.

After obtaining more information about the phone - the GPS signal information - etc - they were able to narrow it down to the time of 3:41 (regardless of if the log showed incoming calls to the phone) as the time HEATHER'S PHONE basically went ~poof~

You are right, VM would show incoming calls past the 3.41 time, but the call/activity log showed back and forth communications, that means, incoming and outgoing, (not just incoming) between Heathers ph. and Sidney Moorers ph. :scared:

I haven't read this entire convo but wanted to point out that it is possible to make a mistake with phone numbers that are almost the same,as you've said. I went to T-Mobile a few years ago to get cell phones for myself,as well as my son and daughter. We aren't with them anymore but kept the same numbers when we switched and this is how close our numbers are.


Me: 123-456-7650

Son: 123-456-7893

Daughter: 123-456-7894

I was always confusing my son's number with my daughter's as the only difference is the last number. Hope that helps.

Thank you for your input Motherof5--I can absolutely understand how a genuine mistake could be made in regards to getting cell no's. mixed up, we're only human, mistakes are made, but in this case, a family member is missing, her car is discovered left in an isolated area. Maybe it's just me, but there would be no room for mistakes, I would read very thoroughly, check and double check the call history.

BBM


But since LE has acknowledged what Terry Elvis saw in the log on the 19th, I guess I don't see the utility of referencing dated remarks by LE?

I don't understand what you mean by LE acknowledging what Terry Elvis saw? Didn't LE see what he saw and much more? I don't think they did or had to acknowledge anything. They had logs and subpoena power to to get much more than Terry Elvis could see.

I also don't understand what you mean by "referencing dated remarks by LE." If you mean Feb. 6, 2014, that's not dated. Heather disappeared on Dec. 18, 2013 and the Moorers were arrested on Feb. 21, 2014

The remarks that are not dated were made less than two weeks before Sidney and Tammy Moorer were arrested. So, I'm trying to figure what is.

LE can't have the back and forth going on until 6am if Heather was killed at PTL like they say, and all communication on her phone stopped at 3:41am. If SM and TM had used Heather's phone to create a false lead, then all communication on her phone would not have stopped at 3:41am.

This is what I don't understand either, Terry Elvis showed police T-Mobile phone records indicating phone activity between Heather Elvis and Sidney Moorer as late as 6 a.m. Showed being the key word :deal: The Police saw what Terry Elvis saw! :deal: I don't know what I am missing here, I don't don't know why I can't see it the way others are seeing it!

*I apologise in advance if I am frustrating other members by sounding like a cracked record. I would love to understand it the way others are but I just can't, I'm sorry*

 

[Madeleine74]

This may be a semantics problem and for that we'd need LE to clarify exactly what they mean.

The cell phone companies use these terms:

Talk
Talk & txt
Data (i.e. Internet connection, either 3G or 4LTE)

Smartphone plans typically require the owner of said phone to purchase the ability to do all the above things, including "data." The cell radio is what allows the pure phone usage (talking, receiving and sending calls). The data allows access to the Interwebs and data can be turned off on the phone and the wifi radio can be enabled so the user is not eating up their data amount and can use the phone in a wifi mode. They would have all the same capabilities except they wouldn't be using either 3G or 4LTE quota when they are accessing the Internet through wifi only.

Even with all data off, the phone itself would still be able to make & receive phone calls and the GPS tracking would still be operational. I think txt messages can still be sent/received, though I'm not 100% sure of that since I use Google Voice for txting on my phone and that is only through a data or wifi connection.

IF the phone is turned off completely or is disabled, then no calls or txts can be sent or received, the GPS would not be able to be tracked, there would be no pinging the cell towers, and no Internet usage could be done on or from the phone either.

Frankly, I'm not sure what LE means when they say "activity." Maybe they are using it as an all-inclusive term or maybe it means something very specific to them. Without their definition, it's kind of a toss up. I assumed they were using it as an all-inclusive type meaning, but who knows...

 

[nosysw]

You are right, VM would show incoming calls past the 3.41 time, but the call/activity log showed back and forth communications, that means, incoming and outgoing, (not just incoming) between Heathers ph. and Sidney Moorers ph. :scared:


Thank you for your input Motherof5--I can absolutely understand how a genuine mistake could be made in regards to getting cell no's. mixed up, we're only human, mistakes are made, but in this case, a family member is missing, her car is discovered left in an isolated area. Maybe it's just me, but there would be no room for mistakes, I would read very thoroughly, check and double check the call history.


This is what I don't understand either, Terry Elvis showed police T-Mobile phone records indicating phone activity between Heather Elvis and Sidney Moorer as late as 6 a.m. Showed being the key word :deal: The Police saw what Terry Elvis saw! :deal: I don't know what I am missing here, I don't don't know why I can't see it the way others are seeing it!

*I apologise in advance if I am frustrating other members by sounding like a cracked record. I would love to understand it the way others are but I just can't, I'm sorry*

First of all, question away. I have no problem with someone who keeps trying to figure something out, even if others aren't seeing in the same way. I think we've all been there, and as long as you're respectful (which you always are) there's no reason anyone should get annoyed- they can just move on by, lol.

Now, on the other hand, maybe people get frustrated when lazy (and/or busy ) posters such as myself don't want to go back to find quotes. But, IIRC didn't the quote say 'back and forth as late as 6 am". So maybe it wasn't stated precisely- as in it was back and forth until 3:41, then only incoming after that, but they lumped it all togther(?). Just a thought, but I'm not married to it.

 

[stillwatersc]

Here's a direct link to the interview:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/peterhyatt/2014/02/09/-with-peter-hyatt

Thank you for the link. By early Feb, Terry Elvis was convinced that 3:41AM was the last time Heather used her phone. Listen to the end of the interview - the 41 minute mark.

:deadhorse:

 

[Ghostwheel]

First of all, question away. I have no problem with someone who keeps trying to figure something out, even if others aren't seeing in the same way. I think we've all been there, and as long as you're respectful (which you always are) there's no reason anyone should get annoyed- they can just move on by, lol.

Now, on the other hand, maybe people get frustrated when lazy (and/or busy ) posters such as myself don't want to go back to find quotes. But, IIRC didn't the quote say 'back and forth as late as 6 am". So maybe it wasn't stated precisely- as in it was back and forth until 3:41, then only incoming after that, but they lumped it all togther(?). Just a thought, but I'm not married to it.

This is only my opinion, but "back and forth as late as 6am" could still mean the phone was last used (going out) at 3:41, but incoming activity showed for the phone as late as 6am (as in a call or text came in for that phone's number) around 6am.

I also agree with other posters that anything that has been previously written could have been misprinted, inaccurate, reassessed and/or interpreted in some odd manner. It won't stop me from having an opinion, but I am more than willing to leave doors open.

 

[Motherof5]

You are right, VM would show incoming calls past the 3.41 time, but the call/activity log showed back and forth communications, that means, incoming and outgoing, (not just incoming) between Heathers ph. and Sidney Moorers ph. :scared:


Thank you for your input Motherof5--I can absolutely understand how a genuine mistake could be made in regards to getting cell no's. mixed up, we're only human, mistakes are made, but in this case, a family member is missing, her car is discovered left in an isolated area. Maybe it's just me, but there would be no room for mistakes, I would read very thoroughly, check and double check the call history.


This is what I don't understand either, Terry Elvis showed police T-Mobile phone records indicating phone activity between Heather Elvis and Sidney Moorer as late as 6 a.m. Showed being the key word :deal: The Police saw what Terry Elvis saw! :deal: I don't know what I am missing here, I don't don't know why I can't see it the way others are seeing it!

*I apologise in advance if I am frustrating other members by sounding like a cracked record. I would love to understand it the way others are but I just can't, I'm sorry*

For the record...I didn't mean to imply that I feel that the mistake I made was the same mistake made in this case or that there was a mistake made. I was just pointing out that #'s between family members who are all on the same contract/bill can be very close to each other. Like you,if my child was missing I would not be mistaken.

 

[CellarDoor]

I've been keeping up with Heather's case and something sticks out to me regarding the 6am phone activity mentioned in earlier reports.
I personally believe the 6am timeline was just a broad initial time given by LE. But, after watching countless episodes of forensic files, 48 hours, dateline, etc., I know it's common for LE to intentionally put false information forward to "shake up" the persons of interest.

The M's would undoubtedly know what time the crime occurred, and apparently her phone was immediately destroyed. Since the reports about 6am phone activity came out before their arrest, I think it's plausible that the purpose was to plant doubt in their minds as to whether they had effectively destroyed the phone. If the phone was off and in their possession they might panic.. Know what I mean? IMO this is a reasonable scenario.

 

[Rochestergirl]

I am not sure if this theory was mentioned but one came to me as I was thinking about the payphone call, the call back to it, and the calls from HEs phone to SM's phone and the last call where someone answered for roughly 4 minutes. I also thought about how SM and TM could have kidnapped and killed HE at PTL in under a couple minutes. So here is my theory. Sidney calls Heather from payphone he asks her if she's home and can he come over. HE either agrees or says she'll call him back. HE thinks about it calls back no answer at payphone. She then tries his cell phone. In the meantime SM shows up at HE's apartment. They talk and decide to go to PTL together and look at the stars or whatever excuse is given for going. SM uses HE's phone to call TM (on his cell) to (his excuse tell her where he is) but really to initiate the plan. HE and SM go together to PTL in HE's car. SM kills HE. SM calls his cell phone from HE's that is with TM. TM takes truck and is picked up by cameras and picks up SM and HE (who is dead) from PTL. Quick pick up and they take off back towards their home.

 

[imamaze]

We are not allowing any discussion or links to any of the facebook pages on Heather's case. :tyou:

 

[NFYIAMY]

I am not sure if this theory was mentioned but one came to me as I was thinking about the payphone call, the call back to it, and the calls from HEs phone to SM's phone and the last call where someone answered for roughly 4 minutes. I also thought about how SM and TM could have kidnapped and killed HE at PTL in under a couple minutes. So here is my theory. Sidney calls Heather from payphone he asks her if she's home and can he come over. HE either agrees or says she'll call him back. HE thinks about it calls back no answer at payphone. She then tries his cell phone. In the meantime SM shows up at HE's apartment. They talk and decide to go to PTL together and look at the stars or whatever excuse is given for going. SM uses HE's phone to call TM (on his cell) to (his excuse tell her where he is) but really to initiate the plan. HE and SM go together to PTL in HE's car. SM kills HE. SM calls his cell phone from HE's that is with TM. TM takes truck and is picked up by cameras and picks up SM and HE (who is dead) from PTL. Quick pick up and they take off back towards their home.

Something I keep thinking is: Do we know that the 4 minute phone call was answered - or could it be a very long explanation/goodbye left on the voicemail of his phone?

I think the way things played out could be very pivotal with that information.

I have an iphone and it will let people leave 4 minute (or longer! ugh!) voicemails.

 

[nosysw]

That is a very interesting point. That is a super long voicemail...but, also, I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks I've hung up my cell phone, only to find out it was still connected to someone else's voicemail, a couple minutes later. At least I'm pretty sure
Even butt dials often go to someone's voicemail and they're like 'you left me a long message but I couldn't understand any of it'. Could that have happened in there somewhere?

 

[paris_paris]

TM said that SM answered that phone call (if that helps).

I still can't figure out why, if this was all planned... why did SM at first not say he spoke with Heather that night. He had to have known the calls would show on her cell records. Why would he lie when he knew he'd be caught? Is he that stupid?

Something in the back of my mind tells me he didn't know about the cell calls.

 

[TedMac]

TM said that SM answered that phone call (if that helps).

I still can't figure out why, if this was all planned... why did SM at first not say he spoke with Heather that night. He had to have known the calls would show on her cell records. Why would he lie when he knew he'd be caught? Is he that stupid?

Something in the back of my mind tells me he didn't know about the cell calls.

Yes, he is that stupid!

 

[nosysw]

TM said that SM answered that phone call (if that helps).

I still can't figure out why, if this was all planned... why did SM at first not say he spoke with Heather that night. He had to have known the calls would show on her cell records. Why would he lie when he knew he'd be caught? Is he that stupid?

Something in the back of my mind tells me he didn't know about the cell calls.

Thanks for reminding me, but, respectfully, although it is quite possible, even probable, that one of them did, I really have no reason to believe anything either one of them said. She took a really long time before she came up with that story, and we really have no idea whether anything she said was true. The statements she made were very calculated. So, I really don't put much stock in them. JMO.

 

[paris_paris]

Thanks nosysw. I think one of them answered the call. If Heather had left a long voicemail, I think TM would have said that.

I always felt like she posted information as we received it anyway. Like telling her side when she felt she had to.

 

[Rochestergirl]

Thanks for reminding me, but, respectfully, although it is quite possible, even probable, that one of them did, I really have no reason to believe anything either one of them said. She took a really long time before she came up with that story, and we really have no idea whether anything she said was true. The statements she made were very calculated. So, I really don't put much stock in them. JMO.

TM said that SM answered that phone call (if that helps).

I still can't figure out why, if this was all planned... why did SM at first not say he spoke with Heather that night. He had to have known the calls would show on her cell records. Why would he lie when he knew he'd be caught? Is he that stupid?

Something in the back of my mind tells me he didn't know about the cell calls.

My theory is that TM answered that call the 4 minute one but SM had Heather's phone at that time (calling from her apartment before they headed to PTL)and it was a call to either inform TM they were heading to PTL or to let TM know that the plan they had put in place was going forward.

 

[Madeleine74]

I can't imagine Heather talking to TM for even 1 minute, let alone 4 minutes. No, I think it was SM who did the calling and the talking, each time they spoke.

Why would Heather go out at 3:30am to meet "The Mrs?" According to the Solicitor's office, Heather feared TM. Her leaving her apartment to go to PTL was to meet SM (or who she thought would just be SM). Obviously the Mrs was there as well, maybe hiding in the back seat area.

I don't think there's any way that SM went to Heather's new apartment. If he did, there would have been no reason to leave the apartment, as they would have the place to themselves. No, Heather was lured out of her place, where she likely left, alone, to go to PTL. Further, when Heather spoke to her roommate, who was in FL at the time, she said SM called her and told her he was leaving his wife. She did not say "and he's here at the apartment" or "and he's coming over." Plus, why would Heather be trying to call the payphone several times, an hour later, and then SM's phone if SM was with her at the apartment? She wouldn't, because she wouldn't have to go looking for SM.

Common sense.

 

[jillycat]

We don't know who had what phone at what time. We only know for sure that phones were connected to other phones at particular times.

The statement that SM would have no reason to leave the apartment because they would have the place to themselves implies that we know SM would have been there to spend time with Heather, not kill her.

This makes no sense if we also accept the claim that both M's are equally guilty.

The truth is, we don't know what SM thought or felt when he called Heather that morning from the pay phone, or whether or not the claim that he was leaving his wife had any truth to it.

What went on in conversations and in the minds of the parties that morning remains a secret known only to the parties, and Heather is no longer here to fill in the blanks.

We will probably never know anything from the Moorer's, so we're likely to see circumstantial evidence and theory combined, with room for other scenarios, depending on how convincing is the circumstantial evidence. At least that's how the defense is going to chase an acquittal.

I personally don't think it's a coincidence that SM called Heather from a phone so close to her home. Whether or not he went there is another issue, but if your plan is to meet at PTL for a murder, why are you driving to a pay phone so far from that site and so close to the victim's residence to get her lured to the site?

I think we are missing some pieces here and they may never come to light.

 

[NFYIAMY]

Unless I am incorrect on where Heathers apartment was - I don't consider the gas station where he called from 'close' at all. IMHO it's almost as far from that gas station to river oaks as it is from river oaks to PTL.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Surfside]

Unless I am incorrect on where Heathers apartment was - I don't consider the gas station where he called from 'close' at all. IMHO it's almost as far from that gas station to river oaks as it is from river oaks to PTL.

Thanks Hoppy. I keep thinking the same thing, in regards to the proximity of the payphone. Even if it was at the intersection of 10th North and Bypass, it was about 4 miles from her place. Sure, it's even closer, the way the crow flies, but 4 miles, to me, isn't that close by, in an area where everyone sort of lives in their own pocket of town. For instance, I live in Surfside. A lot of people I know who live on the South End (Surfside, Garden City, Murrells Inlet), don't go north of Market Common all that often. Sorry for getting a little off track. I just wanted to agree with you on the whole "payphone being close" thing. I really don't see it as THAT close to her place.

Though, I did map it, and PTL is about 10 miles from River Oaks Apartments.