The Police Officers in this case

[coloradokares]

That's what I thought! They were very heartless, IMO! You sound like a kind and caring soul, so sorry about your mother.

My point about how quickly they left is the condolence phone calls in post #33. It would be my understanding (I believe I have common sense) that in order to receive a condolence call you have to be there to take the call and who ever might be calling you has to know of a death. Just another R spin on the phone calls that didn't happen.

I think they knew JonBenet was dead so it was a total faux paux to call any calls condolence calls.

 

[Shanny]

That's what I thought! They were very heartless, IMO! You sound like a kind and caring soul, so sorry about your mother.

My point about how quickly they left is the condolence phone calls in post #33. It would be my understanding (I believe I have common sense) that in order to receive a condolence call you have to be there to take the call and who ever might be calling you has to know of a death. Just another R spin on the phone calls that didn't happen.

Heartless? Well some people have their way of dealing with pain, people don't deal with pain the same.
When my mother died, we all stayed in the hospital room until she was brought down to the morgue but the silence in the room the whole time was so eerie and deathly, no one knew what to say, we all just stood there while my mother laid on the bed. I could not bare to stay one more minute in the room, not because I was "heartless" but because I was in shock. When someone dies there is nothing to say because you are in such shock. What were the Ramsey's suppose to do? Stand over JonBenet's body and talk about the weather or sports until the people from the morgue came to take her away?

 

[coloradokares]

Heartless? Well some people have their way of dealing with pain, people don't deal with pain the same.
When my mother died, we all stayed in the hospital room until she was brought down to the morgue but the silence in the room the whole time was so eerie and deathly, no one knew what to say, we all just stood there while my mother laid on the bed. I could not bare to stay one more minute in the room, not because I was "heartless" but because I was in shock. When someone dies there is nothing to say because you are in such shock. What were the Ramsey's suppose to do? Stand over JonBenet's body and talk about the weather or sports until the people from the morgue came to take her away?

The point is no matter how hard it was, you stayed until they came. You are so correct in saying it is hard. The Ramseys could have stayed and not left her laying there. I dont know that I ever read that they were made to leave, it seems every accomodation was made to that point. Many believe the only place they should have gone based on the evidence was to headquarters for interrogation and no I dont appologize for that as that is where many innocent loved ones have been taken following a family members death under suspicious circumstance. Especially when no contact was made with the kidnapper no footprints in the snow no sign of an intruder. That would and I believe should have been the protocol followed. It sounds heartless but it would have answered alot of unanswered questions that no one can answer now.

 

[DeeDee249]

Condolences? Hmmm, wouldn't they have to have been there to answer the phone? How long were they at the house after JB body was found?

Not if the calls came to their cellphones. Suspiciously- it was their cellphones that supposedly showed "no activity" for the month of December. Yeah, right.
When the Rs left the house Dec. 26th, coldly leaving their daughter's body under the Christmas tree (where 24 hours before she had played with the toys Santa brought her) they vowed never to return to "that place". And they didn't. They sent Aunt P to raid the house and remove evidence, escorted by police (who never even accompanied her as she went through the house).

 

[JMO8778]

The point is no matter how hard it was, you stayed until they came. You are so correct in saying it is hard. The Ramseys could have stayed and not left her laying there. I dont know that I ever read that they were made to leave, it seems every accomodation was made to that point. Many believe the only place they should have gone based on the evidence was to headquarters for interrogation and no I dont appologize for that as that is where many innocent loved ones have been taken following a family members death under suspicious circumstance. Especially when no contact was made with the kidnapper no footprints in the snow no sign of an intruder. That would and I believe should have been the protocol followed. It sounds heartless but it would have answered alot of unanswered questions that no one can answer now.

it actually isn't heartless,it's standard procedure to do the questioning asap,as had there actually been an intruder,it's best to go thru the day minute by minute as closely as possible,while their minds and memories are still fresh...for any little thing could have been important,and even the slightest detail could have been revealed,and nothing should have been overlooked.anything at that point could have been important.I'm sure JR knew this...but he also knew they weren't innocent,and hadn't had time to get their stories straight,for one thing...so he put on his whine act,even employing Dr Beuf goof into the act,which would have been ignored had they been anybody else.Patsy can't walk? Put her in a wheelchair! it would have been empowering to her to have her do what she could to help,even at that early stage...that is, if she were innocent of all knowledge of the murder!

 

[DeeDee249]

I am not so sure if the Rs would have been allowed to stay after the house was sealed as a crime scene. Though standard police procedure obviously wasn't followed from the very first, and it isn't clear that the Rs WANTED to stay with the body of their daughter. My impression is that they couldn't wait to get away from the mess they made. The house, their dead child, the soiled panties, the soaking red turtleneck- ALL of it. Especially the horrific memories of their last hours in that house. By turning away and leaving, and vowing never to return, they put the whole horrible mess behind them (and their lawyers made sure it stayed there). It wasn't just leaving the body...it was leaving that awful life, with manic stage-mother PR; distant and sneaky JR; "in-his-own-world" BR- the stress of the pageant-go-round and the immense pressure to maintain a perfect, flawless image of JBR and her family (especially her mother) and all the awful events behind closed doors in that house. By walking out, never to return, the Rs shut the door on whatever happened there; not just THAT night, but all the other times an helpless little girl was abused at the hand of someone in that home. By leaving, they put their stamp of denial on the whole, sordid thing.

 

[coloradokares]

it actually isn't heartless,it's standard procedure to do the questioning asap,as had there actually been an intruder,it's best to go thru the day minute by minute as closely as possible,while their minds and memories are still fresh...for any little thing could have been important,and even the slightest detail could have been revealed,and nothing should have been overlooked.anything at that point could have been important.I'm sure JR knew this...but he also knew they weren't innocent,and hadn't had time to get their stories straight,for one thing...so he put on his whine act,even employing Dr Beuf goof into the act,which would have been ignored had they been anybody else.Patsy can't walk? Put her in a wheelchair! it would have been empowering to her to have her do what she could to help,even at that early stage...that is, if she were innocent of all knowledge of the murder!

I agree from the moment the first officers arrived at the scene nothing went by the book as it should have. Why the cuffs were not on and business was not conducted as usual can only be explained that the friends in high places had immeasureable dividends. My sister in laws mother was raped and murdered. Brutally . I also had my niece kidnapped and Thank you Lord recovered. But those experiences were much different than the Ramsey handling.

 

[DeeDee249]

I have also had a relative murdered. It was long ago. The killer was caught. The surviving witness refused to return to testify. Charges were dropped.

The killer was himself killed a few months later. ( this IS New Jersey, after all)...

 

[BBB167893]

Death-dealing is a double-edged sword.

 

[trixie]

I agree,to not escort her body to the morgue...that just has guilt written all over it.They didn't escort her b/c *they were the reason she went there in the first place!

They were told they had to leave. Remember the incident about the police wanting to put them up in a motel and JR said no? They couldn't stay, it was a crime scene and nobody could stay.

 

[JMO8778]

They were told they had to leave. Remember the incident about the police wanting to put them up in a motel and JR said no? They couldn't stay, it was a crime scene and nobody could stay.

..they were told they couldn't leave the state.but if I'm not mistaken,they would have been allowed to escort her body to the morgue.no one need go inside the house to be able to do that.

 

[DeeDee249]

You're right about that, but they could have asked to accompany her body to the morgue. Even if they waited in the car. LE was so lax in their treatment of the Rs and the crime scene itself, would it really have been so surprising for them to allow the Rs to remain in the house (with police supervision) until the body was taken out? They shouldn't have even been allowed to leave wearing the clothes they had on that day and Christmas Day. We all know PR never changed her clothes- obviously she did not, in fact, put the same clothes on tat day, she just never took them off in the first place. But what about JR? We all have read about PR, but was JR also wearing the same clothes from the White's party? I don't think so. I know fibers from the shirt he wore were found on the body, so obviously eventually that shirt was turned over to LE. We all know blood was wiped from JBR- even microscopic blood splatters would be detected in forensic tests- I don't ever recall seeing that JR's clothes or PR's clothes were tested for blood- imagine IF proper police procedure had been followed and the Rs had to turn over those clothes right away? The case may have been solved right then. But as the R took a YEAR to send them (and LE reported some of the clothes appeared new or unworn) there was no way to tell if they even were the same clothes. They could have been brand new, unworn.
Then they go and allow PR's sister to go through the house alone while LE stayed outside and remove whatever she wanted.

 

[trixie]

You're right about that, but they could have asked to accompany her body to the morgue. Even if they waited in the car. LE was so lax in their treatment of the Rs and the crime scene itself, would it really have been so surprising for them to allow the Rs to remain in the house (with police supervision) until the body was taken out? They shouldn't have even been allowed to leave wearing the clothes they had on that day and Christmas Day. We all know PR never changed her clothes- obviously she did not, in fact, put the same clothes on tat day, she just never took them off in the first place. But what about JR? We all have read about PR, but was JR also wearing the same clothes from the White's party? I don't think so. I know fibers from the shirt he wore were found on the body, so obviously eventually that shirt was turned over to LE. We all know blood was wiped from JBR- even microscopic blood splatters would be detected in forensic tests- I don't ever recall seeing that JR's clothes or PR's clothes were tested for blood- imagine IF proper police procedure had been followed and the Rs had to turn over those clothes right away? The case may have been solved right then. But as the R took a YEAR to send them (and LE reported some of the clothes appeared new or unworn) there was no way to tell if they even were the same clothes. They could have been brand new, unworn.
Then they go and allow PR's sister to go through the house alone while LE stayed outside and remove whatever she wanted.

I agree with this as far as of course the R's could have asked to accompany the body to the morgue but I don't think there is any way at all that would be allowed to happen. This body is now in itself a crime scene and there is a chain of custody attached to it once she was found murdered. It's not like she was alive and being rushed to the emergengy room for treatment which the parents would have to be there to give permission for. Once she was found dead I think the Ramseys no longer had any say over what happened with her body until all evidence was gathered from her body and then it would be turned over to her family for burial. This is just MO. And besides, the Ramseys had no intention of staying with her body and wanted to get away from it as fast as possible as evidenced by LE who overheard the phone conversation by JR to his pilot about getting out of there immediately. Big red flag.

 

[DeeDee249]

Yes, it is. Of course they had no intention of staying with the body. If they could have left the state, they would have. Yet another thing that points to their guilt, IMO. They didn't ask. Whether they would have been allowed to isn't the point. They didn't even try. Innocent parents would have tried.

 

[BOESP]

Everything you say is true. Don't forget that word came down right from the governor's office to "Treat those people (the Rs) like VICTIMS, not like suspects.". That's why it happened the way it did, and that's also why those phone records were "not available". Right.

BBM. Bumping this for those who don't know about the responding officers being advised to treat the Ramseys like victims, not suspects.

Thank-you, DeeDee.

 

[UKGuy]

BBM. Bumping this for those who don't know about the responding officers being advised to treat the Ramseys like victims, not suspects.

Thank-you, DeeDee.

BOESP,
Nice. Just watched The Untouchables, PBS, all those poor Bankers, victims of the markets, yada yada.

If the R's were to be treated as victims in advance of any investigation, what does that suggest about any prior communication?

Maybe there was dysfunctional children from various families who were abusing, among others, JonBenet.

The abuse of JonBenet on 12/25 culminating in her death, from what seems to be some kind of enraged response to JonBenet likely saying NO!

I link this with the R's Christmas Party, something took place there, that allows some of the guests to form an alliance with the R's, specifically around the issue of sexual abuse.

Did JR or PR talk to BR after the Christmas Party, telling him that playing doctor, or similar is actually incest? Did he then look it up in the Websters Dictionary? Other children can look for this information in their own house or library, i.e. ruling them out?

Its this aspect, the prior knowledge of innapropriate behaviour, that might allow the R's to communicate to BPD, the nature of the case and why they should be considered as victims?


.

 

[BOESP]

UKGuy,

This is just my opinion, but I hold to Steve Thomas's theory making the most sense to me. For whatever reasons the powers-that-be had decided the Ramseys weren't guilty before an investigation was made. Talk about blatant dispensation of special privileges!

 

[Edmond.DantesIII]

This is just my opinion, but I hold to Steve Thomas's theory making the most sense to me. For whatever reasons the powers-that-be had decided the Ramseys weren't guilty before an investigation was made. Talk about blatant dispensation of special privileges!

"For whatever reason" is not much to base a theory on; but then again, ST was never much of a homicide detective.

 

[redheadedgal]

ST was never much of a homicide detective.

your opinion. imo, a detective is a detective, no matter which branch of policing he's focusing on.

i wait with baited breath for you to show us YOUR one hundred plus career awards and commendations...

A graduate of the University of Colorado, Steve Thomas received more than a hundred commendations and awards during his 13-year police career, including the Award of Excellence, a medal for lifesaving, a SWAT citation, and a Distinguished Service Award. Thomas' career included a variety of assignments, ranging from recruit training and SWAT to special investigations and undercover narcotics. One of Thomas' drug cases was heard by the Colorado Supreme Court, resulting in a unanimous search-and-seizure decision favoring law enforcement. After two officer-involved shootings, Thomas also instructed on surviving critical incidents. Prior to the Ramsey case, Thomas worked on a multi-state task force investigating racketeering and organized crime that resulted in numerous grand jury indictments.

http://www.forstevethomas.com/stevethomas.htm

 

[Edmond.DantesIII]

your opinion. imo, a detective is a detective, no matter which branch of policing he's focusing on.

That may be true, but he is not necessarily a competent detective, at least in the branch of homicide investigation.

i wait with baited breath for you to show us YOUR one hundred plus career awards and commendations...

A graduate of the University of Colorado, Steve Thomas received more than a hundred commendations and awards during his 13-year police career, including the Award of Excellence, a medal for lifesaving, a SWAT citation, and a Distinguished Service Award. Thomas' career included a variety of assignments, ranging from recruit training and SWAT to special investigations and undercover narcotics. One of Thomas' drug cases was heard by the Colorado Supreme Court, resulting in a unanimous search-and-seizure decision favoring law enforcement. After two officer-involved shootings, Thomas also instructed on surviving critical incidents. Prior to the Ramsey case, Thomas worked on a multi-state task force investigating racketeering and organized crime that resulted in numerous grand jury indictments.

http://www.forstevethomas.com/stevethomas.htm

Funny, but with all his awards and experience, none of it appears to be related to homicide investigation. I wonder why that is?