The Pontiac - "Revisted" #1

[Reagan]

I listened to that and thought CA said "why didn'tcha pick up the car?"

Hmm, interesting. I always heard, "why didn't she pick up the car" also. So I was assuming "zenaida"? It makes more sense your way.

O/T but sheesh... CA had a good job and now it's gone. I would be lucky to get 2 days vacation let alone two weeks. Too bad.

 

[cecybeans]

Remember that CA asked KC while visiting her in jail "why didn't she pick up the car?" Who the h is she and why would CA ask that question in the first place (like she had foreknowledge or had been clued in in some way).

I am probably the only person that heard that differently. I went back and listened to again and again, like 20 times. I can see where people heard CA say "she", but I also thought it sounded like the (perhaps primarily Midwest colloquial) "yuh's" (or something similar like "youse"), as if she was asking KC why she herself didn't pick it up. I can't remember exactly the exact terms (and I should really go down and hunt it up and listen to remember exactly what I heard), but I know it was slurred (as in a quick elision of "why didn't you just" which gave it the "sh" effect, and it just sounded as if she was talking in the second person singular instead of third person. I might be nuts, but if I can find it, I'll post the link and see if you hear it differently. If not, I'll just quietly go to the ear doc....

 

[cecybeans]

I listened to that and thought CA said "why didn'tcha pick up the car?"

You nailed it - that's exactly what I was looking for. And WBG don't worry - most people heard "she" and thought it was ZG. I thought I was alone.

I think we should all get certificates in audio and visual engineering forensics when this is over with how we've all pored over photos and replayed audios a billion times to hear things.

 

[JWG]

Moved to here from the doc dump thread.

On page 8407 (http://www.clickorlando.com/download...9/21146773.pdf) FBI agent Cowan describes the stain in the trunk as looking like the image of a child in the fetal position. :shakehead:

Heart-wrenching. :cry:

 

[KenoshaKid]

Moved to here from the doc dump thread.

On page 8407 (http://www.clickorlando.com/download...9/21146773.pdf) FBI agent Cowan describes the stain in the trunk as looking like the image of a child in the fetal position. :shakehead:

Heart-wrenching. :cry:

View attachment 5320

I think this is a bombshell. Not just decomp, but in the outline of her body? How can you junk-science your way out of that? I never ate a pizza in the shape of a body before. How 'bout y'all?

 

[Reagan]

Thanks JWG.

How sad.. That just breaks my heart.

At least we now know why LE said very early on that they knew which position Caylee was laying in when her body was in the trunk.

 

[Reagan]

Also this makes me wonder why GA said the stain was 'basketball' sized... though not necessarily circular. Caylee was tiny, but the way he described it, it sounded a lot smaller. The agents statement in the attachment describes it as a large stain.

Anyway sorry, just typing out loud I guess....

 

[Mominva]

Moved to here from the doc dump thread.

On page 8407 (http://www.clickorlando.com/download...9/21146773.pdf) FBI agent Cowan describes the stain in the trunk as looking like the image of a child in the fetal position. :shakehead:

Heart-wrenching. :cry:

View attachment 5320

I have always thought she was put into the trunk possibly covered with her blanket before being bagged. That would explain the borrowing of the shovel. The body begins to break down as soon as death occurs and the amount of fluid leaking from the body for 2 days in the heat would be large. I dont think she was ever buried in the back yard. What i wanna know is who cleaned the trunk possibly with a carpet cleaner and then dumping it in the back yard which caused the cadaver dogs to hit. I want to see the testing on the things they took from the Anthonys!:furious:

 

[SuziQ]

I have always thought she was put into the trunk possibly covered with her blanket before being bagged. That would explain the borrowing of the shovel. The body begins to break down as soon as death occurs and the amount of fluid leaking from the body for 2 days in the heat would be large. I dont think she was ever buried in the back yard. What i wanna know is who cleaned the trunk possibly with a carpet cleaner and then dumping it in the back yard which caused the cadaver dogs to hit. I want to see the testing on the things they took from the Anthonys!:furious:

I've always thought the dogs hit from transference of decomp on the gas cans. I think he stopped to do things and put them on the ground as he made his way back to the shed to put them away.

 

[SuziQ]

Mominva, now that I think of it, one of the dog hits was behind the pool by the hose. Washing out a cleaning bucket maybe? Maybe the A's found some of Caylee's toys in the trunk and threw them into the sandbox and playhouse.

 

[cecybeans]

Mominva, now that I think of it, one of the dog hits was behind the pool by the hose. Washing out a cleaning bucket maybe? Maybe the A's found some of Caylee's toys in the trunk and threw them into the sandbox and playhouse.

Or dumping a wetvac that had been used to clean trunk carpeting on the wheel well cover. Also, some items could have been rinsed off (like pants and boots) in the backyard with the hose - over by the playhouse or sandbox.

I have never been convinced that decomp came from KC carrying Caylee to the backyard. Too much work before the grave was dug would be my guess. Better to leave her in the trunk until it was all set up, and we know that never happened.

 

[Harmony 2]

Moved to here from the doc dump thread.

On page 8407 (http://www.clickorlando.com/download...9/21146773.pdf) FBI agent Cowan describes the stain in the trunk as looking like the image of a child in the fetal position. :shakehead:

Heart-wrenching. :cry:

View attachment 5320

I think this is a bombshell. Not just decomp, but in the outline of her body? How can you junk-science your way out of that? I never ate a pizza in the shape of a body before. How 'bout y'all?

According to this it was not a stain from decomp fluid.

http://www.clickorlando.com/health/21139699/detail.html

The e-mail was addressed to Erin P. Martin of the FBI, and can be found on page 34 of this document.

But two days later, on Oct. 2, FBI supervisory photographic technologist Richard W. Vorder Bruegge told Cowan the lab would not speculate about what left the image: "Others can draw their own conclusions about that."

The stain Cowan observed was found not to be caused by any biological liquid, such as blood or fluids from decomposition. No DNA was found in the stain.

 

[Mominva]

Mominva, now that I think of it, one of the dog hits was behind the pool by the hose. Washing out a cleaning bucket maybe? Maybe the A's found some of Caylee's toys in the trunk and threw them into the sandbox and playhouse.

I never thought of the gas cans. The hits on the playhouse and sandbox always throw me off maybe she put Caylee there until she decided what to do? Ijust can't bring myself to believe she would be stupid enough to hide her daughters body in her parents backyard.

 

[KenoshaKid]

According to this it was not a stain from decomp fluid.

http://www.clickorlando.com/health/21139699/detail.html

wow, just wow. I am speechless.

 

[snow_walker]

I am surprised the stain was not caused by decomp.. wonder what caused it then?

And if that stain was not the source of the odour, (after the body itself was removed) what was? Truly puzzling.. just when I think I have something figured out, it's back to the drawing board.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

Somewhere in this doc dump one of the lab techs answers a question about if the car is still in the garage for further processing and she says "yes, and it smells horrible".
OK - if there is no dna from the stain in the trunk, and only 1 hair with deathband (thanks to the great cleaning talent of CA) - I think that the prosecution should take all of the jurors for a visit to the garage for a field trip to get a whiff of that car. I believe that would nail the coffin shut.

 

[AZlawyer]

I am surprised the stain was not caused by decomp.. wonder what caused it then?

And if that stain was not the source of the odour, (after the body itself was removed) what was? Truly puzzling.. just when I think I have something figured out, it's back to the drawing board.

Before this gets out of hand, can anyone find anything in the DOCUMENTS (as opposed to news reports) that supports the idea that the stain was not decomp fluid??

 

[ZsaZsa]

wow, just wow. I am speechless.

This is a report from Click Orlando.. where is the official document they got that from?

 

[tasylshari]

This is a report from Click Orlando.. where is the official document they got that from?

ZsaZsa: this quote is very disturbing to all of us, I'm sure. The document that Click Orlando stated it was in is here, but I cannot find that quote anywhere....just graphs and charts that are greek to me
http://www.clickorlando.com/download/2009/0929/21146984.pdf
:waitasec::waitasec::waitasec:

But then I found this. Will keep looking for Cowan's statement in the meantime. Can't figure out how to cut and paste their new docs so will give the link and it's on page 32 where it is stated that the stain could have come from other substances, ie: detergents/cleaners

Back to read...http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/14-8858-8939.pdf

on page 73 of this doc in the bench notes, "we talked about exams on trunk liner - looking for blood/possible biological fluid from possible decomp. Conveyed _erological examinations to SA Savage. Explained what the process will be to collect from liner in an attempt to recover any possible DNA. Highly unlikely to recover A type - he understood. More evidence may be coming next week."

I have been unsuccessful at finding Cowan's alleged statement (whew! hope that Click Orland misspoke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

 

[tasylshari]

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/7-8374-8417_1.pdf

Page 32 of 44 reads,

"Finally, I would note that, although we may be able to draw conclusions about whether marks represent impressions or stains, for example, we do not report conclusions about what may or may not have left any marks or impressions in cases like this - it is too speculative. Others can draw their own conclusions about that."

This was from Richard Vorder Bruegge to Karen Cowan.

Reading this paragraph in its entirety settles me a bit more than just reading the snippet that Click Orlando posted.