The Pontiac - "Revisted" #1

[snow_walker]

Thank you James Bond ~ I see my first problem was that I was in error over the basic fact that the 'purse' was not the 'bag' left in the car. Still seems dim to me not to get a taxi and head right back over there with some gas, if she had some money, or as soon as she had some...but then KC did many things I would have done quite differently.

That would be the logical thing to do, impossible to say with any certainty then what she actually did do or why she did it.

My guess is that she wanted the car back, but got distracted with 'The Good Life'. Then too she didn't want any of her friends near enough to the car to smell it, if she could help it, but did want one of them to pay for the gas and gas can, if she could manage it. Kind of difficult to juggle that whole act, so it wound up with her procrastinating so long the car got towed.

 

[songline]

Casey is not that dumb. She didn't let the LE trick her into confessing to a crime that she did not commit.

That is not about how smart she is. I am sure that GA told her if you did not do anything do not allow them to trick you into any confessions, Or you will never get out.
But Casey smart :nono: :nono: :nono: I think she is a :cheesehead2:

 

[songline]

i don't know what has provoked the seemingly popular idea that great thought and planning along w/ outside help was necessary in order to carry out the murder and disposal of caylee anthony.
casey killed a 2yr old child who couldn't possibly defend themselves (easy) then dumped the body round the corner (easy) neither of these acts required intelligence or help.
i'll admit that LE are stumped regarding the cause of death. the first time kronk contacted them they sent an idiot out and then the body was submerged for months leaving them only skeletal remains to work w/. that's not the result of a methodical plan; that's the result of shoddy work and really bad weather.

I appreciate the way you think and it may have merit. I still believe in turning over every stone, because some things are not as they seem. and I still think it would require a sharper mind then Casey has to pull it off in a way that would stump LE.

 

[songline]

Do you think JB will try to say that Caylee accidentally died in the trunk of the Pontiac where KC put her after she was unable to find a babysitter in time for her hot date? KC normally put Caylee in the trunk late at night and got her out early in the morning while it was still cool but this time it was earlier in the afternoon when the temperature was still hot. The next morning when KC found Caylee and it was too late, she was too afraid to tell anyone, didn't know what to do, so she winged it as usual and ignored her dead baby.

That was my original thinking too - but now I am questioning and questioning many things

 

[wenwe4]

I have not read all thru this thread, so if it's been brought up before then please forgive this post. Has anyone inquired about the "black box" on board the Pontiac? I know the computer logs everything and keeps that info stored for hundreds of miles. The Pontiac Service Dealerships have diagnostics that can determine when the car ran out of gas, what was happening at the time, what has happened since, how many miles it's been since the last oil change, etc. Also, if Pontiac is the same as Toyota, the On Board Diagnostics can actually tell what a car was doing (ie: turning, accelorating, how fast, etc) if the owner claims something failed on the car to cause an accident. The mechanics at the dealership do not have access to that info, but the Manufacturer does and can provide detailed info. Wonder if LE brought in a Pontiac expert?

 

[songline]

THANK YOU EVERYBODY.
GREAT POSTS, GREAT INFORMATION. :clap::clap:

 

[natsound]

FYI, here is a link to the interview transcript with AL where he's being driven around by police, showing exactly where he picked up KC on June 23 when she ran out of gas. He said the trunk of the car had no strange odor. Very odd.

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/030509anthonydiscoverypageslazzaro/indexGallery.htm

 

[marla]

FYI, here is a link to the interview transcript with AL where he's being driven around by police, showing exactly where he picked up KC on June 23 when she ran out of gas. He said the trunk of the car had no strange odor. Very odd.

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/030509anthonydiscoverypageslazzaro/indexGallery.htm

Yet George saw her on June 24th and the gas can exchange took place ..

 

[magic-cat]

*snipped for space*

Thanks, Brownflower. You've clearly invested some time & effort in putting all of that together.

I'm curious if you can help me see how you distinguish from the pings that Casey was circling vs. stationary. I don't know how to do that and would love to learn. Can you tell what route she was taking as she circled? Back and forth between JBPark & Amscot? TIA!



FWIW, TH, if I understand the series you are referring to ~1:16-1:27PM, those are text message exchanges between Casey & Jenna.

Hey Bond! Who is Jenna? Is that the shot girl that she worked with that has now left the area? I do not recall seeing her interview...:waitasec:

 

[DAWN TREADER]

Honestly I don't think we can rule out Casey having help in terms of the disposal of the car and body. Just who this accomplice is, I don't know but if there is one, he/she must be very concerned about the state's decision to put the DP back on the table. Whether it was strictly to advise and/or physically assist Casey, one can only speculate if an accomplice was involved and to what degree.

OTOH, I don't believe ditching the car at Amscot wasn't something KC couldn't have come up with on her own. Ditto disposing of Caylee in the swamp area down the street from her house.

Truth be told, it appears this is a girl who was used to lying to get what she wanted and/or cover her tracks. She survived by living off friends and family.

 

[Luckybuck]

It's very possible that Casey was just irresponsible, living in the moment and neglected to go back for the Pontiac for several days.
OR
Casey was working her script to:
A) Have the car stolen
B) Have the car towed to Johnson's
C) Have a prearranged second person pick up the vehicle

In support of plan A
-The Amscot intersection is very busy.
-There are a lot of homeless hanging out and moving about in this area as well as other pedestrians.
( If you want something stolen, this looks like a great spot. If you want to increase your chances of having your car broken into and stolen *leave a bag or other stuff visible, preferably in the front seat* More advice; increase your chances of success by leaving it as long as possible. More exposure that way.)
- There is a CVS across the street, Burger King next door, Sam's Club right behind Amscot and..............a huge GAS STATION right behind AMSCOT:confused:
- WHY DIDN'T CASEY WALK ACROSS THE SAMS CLUB PARKING LOT AND BORROW CAN AND GAS? NO MONEY??
- WHY DIDN'T CASEY ASK TONY FOR A FEW DOLLARS FOR GAS RIGHT THERE? DON'T GAS STATIONS KEEP A CAN THAT YOU CAN BORROW IF YOU LEAVE YOUR LICENSE/MONEY OR SOMETHING?
In support of plan B
- Signs posted in regards to towing. If no one steals it (above) then it goes to the tow yard. There is the excuse for not having my vehicle and needing to borrow someone else's.
Plan C
- Maybe Casey told the truth laugh: and her dad was going to pick up the Pontiac. Maybe he recognized the smell right away and knew something terrible had happened. He knew that if he moved that car it would implicate him. He let it go to the tow yard to keep distance between himself and a possible crime. When he picks it up from the tow yard, he asks the attendant to come with him when he opens the trunk.......

LEAVING THE PONTIAC: IRRESPONSIBLE OR PLANNED???

 

[JWG]

FWIW...The following items were removed from the car by Cindy and given to LE in a black trash bag with yellow handles taken from the Anthony garage:

Doll

Dora the Explorer "Adorable" Backpack
- First pocket
- Violet light color comb
- Toothpaste "Spider-Man" with # 03-2010
- Tootbrush "Reach"
- Inside
- Nice'n Toddler clean wipes (pack) serial #7488754530
- Two pull-ups

Child's tooth brush

Black leather bag and belt

Various papers:
Island of Adventure Special Information
Island of Adventure May, 2008
Universal Studios, May 2008
Universal Studios, June 2008
Island of Adventure July 2008
Universal Studios, July 2008
One page with scratch notes

Dinner knife

Blue plastic crate

Plastic clothes hangers

The following was removed from the trunk at the tow yard:

Wt. trash bag w/ blue handles w/ misc. items
1. Empty Coca Cola cherry can 12oz with num #2145.
2. Empty Coca Cola Classic can 12oz with num #22502.
3. Empty Milwaukee's "Best Light" beer can #C7019e.
4. Empty Sprite can 12oz with # 16090RA.
5. Empty circular metal box of "Copenhagen Tobacco" with num # SLN8178.
6. One (1) hair pin; three (3) plastic tie wraps
7. Empty "Dr. Peppe" can 12oz proof of purchase num # 2239E505168X.
8. Empty "Pepsi" can 12oz proof of purchasenum # 1608RF01238.
9. Empty "Sprite" can 12oz proof of purchase num # 16090RA.
10. Empty "Mountain Dew" 12oz proof of purchase num # 2122E504248X.
11. Empty "Oscar Mayer" plastic container 8oz proof of purchase num # 447001090.
12. Empty small "Crystal Light' container num # 249554.
13. Empty "Crystal Light" bottle 16oz with brown liquid proof purchase num # 430093911.
14. Bottle of "Kiwi's Sport Cleaner 5.5oz proof of purchase num # 3160024701.
15. Empty bottle of "Arm & Hammer" 80oz proof of purchase num #33200090430.
16. Empty bottle of "Crystal Light Soft Drink Mix" 80z proof of purchase num #4300095033.
17. Empty black container "Anchor".
18. Empty and broken pizza box "Pizza a Symbol of Quality".
19. Empty carton of "Cherry Coke" 12 packs proof of purchase num# 490003103.
20. Empty carton of "Velveeta" 10.3oz with napkin attach on it with exp day ll/Feb/09.
21. Empty carton of "Velveeta" 12oz proof of purchasenum # 2100065893.
22. Empty carton of "Velveeta" 9Aoz proof of purchase num # 210065643.
23. Empty pack of "Parliament Lights" proof of purchase num # 2820019008.
24. Empty pack of "Marlboro" num # 283022.
25. Empty pack of "Trident Splash" proof of purchase num # 1254667123.
26. Two empty aluminum wraps of "Velveeta" cheese sauce.
27. Piece of fabric that said "L G G made in Honduras of USA fabric".
28. White plastic hanger broken.
29. Piece of paper wrapper "Italian bread" "Roma" with a napkin attach to it.
30. Document "Full Sail" orientation & registration.
31. Three receipts.
32. Document dated on May 9, 2008.
33. Four air freshener sheets.
34. Five napkins.
35. Plastic wrapper of "Stouffer's" garlic chicken proof of purchase num # 1380045214.
36. Three small pieces of plastic wrapper.
37. Three pieces of aluminum foil.

The following items were removed from the car at the Forensics Garage:

Sheet of air freshener (Letter A - trunk)

Air freshener sheet - middle of rear seat

Piece of fabric (Pointer #4)

Baby car seat brand name "Eddie Bauer"

Black pair of boots size 5

Black shoes brand name "Mossamo"

The following items are mentioned in the reports but do not have evidence numbers associated with them, so they may still be in the car:

brown belt

sunglasses

black case with CDs

 

[Intermezzo]

Haven't gone back in the thread to see if it's been posted but since we are talking about the Pontiac I just wanted to thrown in that in Jesse's statement he tells LE he has never had a copy of keys to Casey's car. And that the only time he has ever had her keys in his hands was when she was right next to him and driving her car.

http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0408/19129428.pdf Page 13

I know it's a he said she said thing but the She is a known liar and the A's have been recently stating in the Morgan depos that Jesse has keys to the Pontiac.

 

[Luckybuck]

I have not read all thru this thread, so if it's been brought up before then please forgive this post. Has anyone inquired about the "black box" on board the Pontiac? I know the computer logs everything and keeps that info stored for hundreds of miles. The Pontiac Service Dealerships have diagnostics that can determine when the car ran out of gas, what was happening at the time, what has happened since, how many miles it's been since the last oil change, etc. Also, if Pontiac is the same as Toyota, the On Board Diagnostics can actually tell what a car was doing (ie: turning, accelorating, how fast, etc) if the owner claims something failed on the car to cause an accident. The mechanics at the dealership do not have access to that info, but the Manufacturer does and can provide detailed info. Wonder if LE brought in a Pontiac expert?

aWEsOMe!!! I had no idea. Is this box standard on all vehicle makes/models? What year was this available on the Pontiac Sunfire? (Can't remember what year hers was)

 

[spqr]

I have not read all thru this thread, so if it's been brought up before then please forgive this post. Has anyone inquired about the "black box" on board the Pontiac? I know the computer logs everything and keeps that info stored for hundreds of miles. The Pontiac Service Dealerships have diagnostics that can determine when the car ran out of gas, what was happening at the time, what has happened since, how many miles it's been since the last oil change, etc. Also, if Pontiac is the same as Toyota, the On Board Diagnostics can actually tell what a car was doing (ie: turning, accelorating, how fast, etc) if the owner claims something failed on the car to cause an accident. The mechanics at the dealership do not have access to that info, but the Manufacturer does and can provide detailed info. Wonder if LE brought in a Pontiac expert?

Some of the onboard computers store this information, some do not. It depends on the year and make of the car as to how detailed the information might be. Obviously the newer cars store more onboard dignostics while the older models store troubleshoot codes for "major" events. I know more of the higher end models even store vehicle speed, say at time of crash. So I guess until we have more specifics on the year and model of the Pontiac we can only speculate.

 

[nephers]

Some of the onboard computers store this information, some do not. It depends on the year and make of the car as to how detailed the information might be. Obviously the newer cars store more onboard dignostics while the older models store troubleshoot codes for "major" events. I know more of the higher end models even store vehicle speed, say at time of crash. So I guess until we have more specifics on the year and model of the Pontiac we can only speculate.

I believe it is a 1998 Sunfire

 

[DAWN TREADER]

It's very possible that Casey was just irresponsible, living in the moment and neglected to go back for the Pontiac for several days.
OR
Casey was working her script to:
A) Have the car stolen
B) Have the car towed to Johnson's
C) Have a prearranged second person pick up the vehicle

In support of plan A
-The Amscot intersection is very busy.
-There are a lot of homeless hanging out and moving about in this area as well as other pedestrians.
( If you want something stolen, this looks like a great spot. If you want to increase your chances of having your car broken into and stolen *leave a bag or other stuff visible, preferably in the front seat* More advice; increase your chances of success by leaving it as long as possible. More exposure that way.)
- There is a CVS across the street, Burger King next door, Sam's Club right behind Amscot and..............a huge GAS STATION right behind AMSCOT:confused:
- WHY DIDN'T CASEY WALK ACROSS THE SAMS CLUB PARKING LOT AND BORROW CAN AND GAS? NO MONEY??
- WHY DIDN'T CASEY ASK TONY FOR A FEW DOLLARS FOR GAS RIGHT THERE? DON'T GAS STATIONS KEEP A CAN THAT YOU CAN BORROW IF YOU LEAVE YOUR LICENSE/MONEY OR SOMETHING?
In support of plan B
- Signs posted in regards to towing. If no one steals it (above) then it goes to the tow yard. There is the excuse for not having my vehicle and needing to borrow someone else's.
Plan C
- Maybe Casey told the truth laugh: and her dad was going to pick up the Pontiac. Maybe he recognized the smell right away and knew something terrible had happened. He knew that if he moved that car it would implicate him. He let it go to the tow yard to keep distance between himself and a possible crime. When he picks it up from the tow yard, he asks the attendant to come with him when he opens the trunk.......

LEAVING THE PONTIAC: IRRESPONSIBLE OR PLANNED???

Brilliant post! :clap:

 

[KenoshaKid]

FYI, here is a link to the interview transcript with AL where he's being driven around by police, showing exactly where he picked up KC on June 23 when she ran out of gas. He said the trunk of the car had no strange odor. Very odd.

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/030509anthonydiscoverypageslazzaro/indexGallery.htm

I don't think George noticed it at the tow yard, either, until he opened the driver door and it hit him right in the face.

Question about these shoes found in the car:
Black pair of boots size 5
Black shoes brand name "Mossamo"

were they tested as part of the 22 pairs tested for soil samples in the most recent d-dump?

 

[Intermezzo]

It's very possible that Casey was just irresponsible, living in the moment and neglected to go back for the Pontiac for several days.
OR
Casey was working her script to:
A) Have the car stolen
B) Have the car towed to Johnson's
C) Have a prearranged second person pick up the vehicle

In support of plan A
-The Amscot intersection is very busy.
-There are a lot of homeless hanging out and moving about in this area as well as other pedestrians.
( If you want something stolen, this looks like a great spot. If you want to increase your chances of having your car broken into and stolen *leave a bag or other stuff visible, preferably in the front seat* More advice; increase your chances of success by leaving it as long as possible. More exposure that way.)
- There is a CVS across the street, Burger King next door, Sam's Club right behind Amscot and..............a huge GAS STATION right behind AMSCOT:confused:
- WHY DIDN'T CASEY WALK ACROSS THE SAMS CLUB PARKING LOT AND BORROW CAN AND GAS? NO MONEY??
- WHY DIDN'T CASEY ASK TONY FOR A FEW DOLLARS FOR GAS RIGHT THERE? DON'T GAS STATIONS KEEP A CAN THAT YOU CAN BORROW IF YOU LEAVE YOUR LICENSE/MONEY OR SOMETHING?
In support of plan B
- Signs posted in regards to towing. If no one steals it (above) then it goes to the tow yard. There is the excuse for not having my vehicle and needing to borrow someone else's.
Plan C
- Maybe Casey told the truth laugh: and her dad was going to pick up the Pontiac. Maybe he recognized the smell right away and knew something terrible had happened. He knew that if he moved that car it would implicate him. He let it go to the tow yard to keep distance between himself and a possible crime. When he picks it up from the tow yard, he asks the attendant to come with him when he opens the trunk.......

LEAVING THE PONTIAC: IRRESPONSIBLE OR PLANNED???[/QUOTE]

IMO Planned.
The car smelled of decomp. She definitely didn't want to drive TL to the airport in her car.
The gas guage worked properly. She could have easily gotten gas to put in the car, even if it did run out of gas (which I do not believe even with all the great sleuthing on WS about it). Yet she tells TL it broke down, if she told him she ran out of gas again, I'm sure he would have laughed, and then went and got gas for her.
I also question the going back with Amy and the newly purchased gas tank.
I think it was just a ruse. Perhaps, if the car was still there she would have allowed Amy to touch it and Voila! fingerprints other than hers on the vehicle, yet IMO she was happy to see the car gone, maybe someone stole it and Voila! more fingerprints. She did not go into the Amscot and inquire about what happened to the car like most would have done.
And as luck has it or not, Casey got 2 more weeks avoiding her family before they were ultimately reunited with the towed car and all hay broke lose

 

[DAWN TREADER]

Most damning of all ... leaving Mama, Caylee's beloved baby doll in the car ... tells me Caylee was already dead when the car was abandoned at Amscot.