The Ramseys are Cleared

[angelwngs]

Question for ya Angel. I read PMPT, but I was just wondering if one wanted a refresher on this case, how accurate is the movie. I've seen bits and pieces but never the whole thing from beginning to end. What do you think?

Personally, Dear MrsM., I prefer reading to watching almost every single time. It seems to me that way too much gets omitted or altered from page to screen.

Honestly, unless you just want specifically to refresh w/PMPT, I would suggest rereading at acandyrose or just start googling the specific topics related to the case and take a look at the various sites which come up.

When I want to recollect specific details, I do the google thing...Like the other day I wanted to know about the beaver trimmed boots PR said she didn't own, but that others said there were photographs as proof, so I googled it.

I found a couple of interesting sites I had never read before a couple of weeks ago. I'll see if I saved them to favorites and let you know.

 

[Wudge]

I just can't wrap my brain around a parent murdering their child in such a violent way with the fractured skull, garrote, etc. And then cleaning the body afterward and redressing her. If it had been in a fit of rage and accidental, I just can't picture a parent sticking around the body like that. She/they would want to erase the picture of their dead daughter from their eyes as soon as possible. It just doesn't make any sense to me. They just don't fit the profile of parents who kill their child/children.

Patsy adored Jon Benet. She's was coming off tier 4 cancer and was assuredly just happy to be alive. So we were to believe that she slowly kills the child she adored on Xmas day for wetting the bed? That never computed, and it should have had everyone's BS antenna buzzing like mad.

Nor does death by garrote compute. That's a specialty device used by sexual sadists/perverts, ninjas, stealthy special forces personnel and various South American rebel factions . It's a knot that very few people know how to tie.

 

[BBB167893]

I just can't wrap my brain around a parent murdering their child in such a violent way with the fractured skull, garrote, etc.

Ron Walker can. He said that anyway you can think of to kill someone, parents have done it to their children. Parents have decapitated their children.

If it had been in a fit of rage and accidental, I just can't picture a parent sticking around the body like that. She/they would want to erase the picture of their dead daughter from their eyes as soon as possible.

According to the FBI, they did that, with the ransom note. It was their way to create a criminal.

It just doesn't make any sense to me.

Like I said, Pepper: when does a child's murder by a parent EVER make sense? The day it does, I will PRAY for death.

They just don't fit the profile of parents who kill their child/children.

So what?

 

[SeekingJana]

Just wondering: In all this conversation about JBR's chronic sexual abuse, which was detailed in such great depth as to be absolutely clear and understandable by a dear M.D. friend on a forum which no longer exists, why has no one considered that Grandpa Paugh may have been JBR's abuser?
Incest is often multi-generational. GPP was at the Ramsey home until he took a supposed stand by flight to Atlanta late on Christmas Eve. Nothing's ever been too well known about GPP and his second residence, a condo in Boulder, which he did not share with Nedra when he was in Boulder. Nedra's home was in Roswell, and there she stayed, alone without Don most of the time once Access Graphics was up and running in Boulder. He was, I believe, VP. I would have to go through one of the case books to find the answer, but he was an office-holder and paid employee at AG in Boulder while his wife lived in Roswell, GA.

Nothing much has ever been said about Nedra's shocking comment that JBR had been slightly molested. I am paraphrasing but she was the only family member to admit that yes, something had happened to JBR below the waist.

JBR had regressed with her toileting, was said to soil herself both in the daytime and at night at the age of 6 and a half, the timeframe preceeding her death. She was said to be toilet trained at the time Patsy first was diagnosed with ovarian cancer. Let's look at that time period as we know it from what the Ramseys have said and written: Who took care of the children quite a bit during those months? Nedra and Don Paugh, along with their father, John . What happened to JonBenet? She regressed to the point of drinking out of a sippy cup again, and displaying other regressive behaviors, such as being back in diapers.

So, looking at the big picture: JBR had two major regressive incidents that we know of: One close to the time of her murder according to Linda Hofffman Pugh and one earlier in her life while her mother couldn't be as watchful of her.
Her Grandpa Paugh was in the family picture during both time periods, and Nedra made an admission of knowledge of some sexual abuse perpetrated upon JonBenet, while the rest of the family was busy denying it existed.

I've always thought he was a viable suspect for the abuse, not the murder.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I just can't wrap my brain around a parent murdering their child in such a violent way with the fractured skull, garrote, etc. And then cleaning the body afterward and redressing her. If it had been in a fit of rage and accidental, I just can't picture a parent sticking around the body like that. She/they would want to erase the picture of their dead daughter from their eyes as soon as possible. It just doesn't make any sense to me. They just don't fit the profile of parents who kill their child/children.

I think the cleaning and redressing points to it being a parent! No intruder would do that.

I think the bash was in a fit of rage and the staging/garroting was thought to have been (by a parent...Patsy) done in fear, to an already dead JonBenet. Besides, the "garrote" was tied on her...not prepared before. You'd think a pedophile murder/ kidnapper would have prepared his garrote sometime either before or after writing the THREE page ransom note

FACT: More children are abused physically around the holidays than any other time of the year.

FACT: Bed wetting is the number one cause parents physically abuse their children.

 

[MrsMush99]

Personally, Dear MrsM., I prefer reading to watching almost every single time. It seems to me that way too much gets omitted or altered from page to screen.

Honestly, unless you just want specifically to refresh w/PMPT, I would suggest rereading at acandyrose or just start googling the specific topics related to the case and take a look at the various sites which come up.

When I want to recollect specific details, I do the google thing...Like the other day I wanted to know about the beaver trimmed boots PR said she didn't own, but that others said there were photographs as proof, so I googled it.

I found a couple of interesting sites I had never read before a couple of weeks ago. I'll see if I saved them to favorites and let you know.

Thanks Hon. I did that with the Pineapple yesterday. There is sooooo much information on this case, it is unreal.

 

[LinasK]

Patsy adored Jon Benet. She's was coming off tier 4 cancer and was assuredly just happy to be alive. So we were to believe that she slowly kills the child she adored on Xmas day for wetting the bed? That never computed, and it should have had everyone's BS antenna buzzing like mad.

Nor does death by garrote compute. That's a specialty device used by sexual sadists/perverts, ninjas, stealthy special forces personnel and various south American rebel factions . It's a knot that very few people know how to tie.

Patsy wasn't stage 4 when JB was killed and I don't believe she adored her. I believe she saw JB as her little pageant clone to use. I don't think she slowly killed her with the garrote, I believe that was John's sex game with JB taken too far, and she was finished off with a head blow.

 

[TexMex]

I just can't wrap my brain around a parent murdering their child in such a violent way with the fractured skull, garrote, etc. And then cleaning the body afterward and redressing her. If it had been in a fit of rage and accidental, I just can't picture a parent sticking around the body like that. She/they would want to erase the picture of their dead daughter from their eyes as soon as possible. It just doesn't make any sense to me. They just don't fit the profile of parents who kill their child/children.

Good evening Pepper,

And an intruder absolutely would clean the body to rid it of evidence.

 

[angelwngs]

Mrs.M.,

Here is one with lots of details for refreshing...

(Warning...It has actual photographs of that sweet little angel after...and they are very, very graphic...but you have to click to open that section, so you don't have to view them if you choose not to do so.)

Other than that it is worth the look.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Good evening Pepper,

And an intruder absolutely would clean the body to rid it of evidence.

and go stomping around the house looking for panties to redress her? cover her?

don't think so

 

[LinasK]

Good evening Pepper,

And an intruder absolutely would clean the body to rid it of evidence.

Cleaning perhaps, but not carefully choosing an outfit, including panties- specifically the correct day of the week ones. Patsy knew where the unopened package of panties too big for JB with the day of the week were.

 

[MrsMush99]

and go stomping around the house looking for panties to redress her? cover her?

don't think so

I want to make sure I have this fact right. The panties she was found in were not the panties she had when she was put to bed, correct?

 

[Linda7NJ]

oh and don't forget the duct tape over her mouth. That was placed there after she was dead....or unconscious at the very least.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I want to make sure I have this fact right. The panties she was found in were not the panties she had when she was put to bed, correct?

correct

 

[Linda7NJ]

and the pineapple.

I doubt an intruder would feed her pineapple at the kitchen table!

 

[MrsMush99]

oh and don't forget the duct tape over her mouth. That was placed there after she was dead....or unconscious at the very least.

But the roll that the Duct Tape came off of was never found right???

 

[BBB167893]

Patsy adored Jon Benet.

No argument. What's your point?

She's was coming off tier 4 cancer and was assuredly just happy to be alive.

She'd BEEN off it for quite a while and she had several problems, not the least of which was an impending intervention about how she was pushing JB too much

So we were to believe that she slowly kills the child she adored on Xmas day for wetting the bed? That never computed, and it should have had everyone's BS antenna buzzing like mad.

Well, even I have my doubts. Not that she killed her, just for that reason.

Nor does death by garrote compute. That's a specialty device used by sexual sadists/perverts, ninjas, stealthy special forces personnel and various south American rebel factions .

A TRUE garrote is the weapon of the people you describe: a cord with a handle on each end. This was just a noose with a handle.

It's a knot that very few people know how to tie.

Actually, the police brought in a know expert who said anyone could have tied it.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Good evening Pepper,

And an intruder absolutely would clean the body to rid it of evidence.

I have read about it before in other cases. Bodies who were redressed and even posed. It is not uncommon at all for a blanket/sheet/spread to be found over the body when discovered either.

imoo

 

[reefshadow]

I wanted to address those who are correlating JB's bedwetting with sexual abuse. It is a very poor method of proving abuse or even bolstering the case for it. *Many* children still occasionally wet the bed at the age of 6-7, an estimated 10 percent in the USA IIRC. There also seems to be a genetic correlation- if one or both of your parents were bedwetters you are much more likely to be. My husband sporadically wet the bed until he was 11 and so did his mom. Neither were ever sexually abused and grew up in fully functional families.

NE can be ascribed to many, many things and sexual abuse is only one of many possibilities. Personally I think it is much more possible that JB had a problem with NE secondary to chronic UTI's. UTI's are extremely common in children because of poor hygene- fecal material is transported to the urethra and vagina via bad wiping habits. This would explain all the repeat DR visits with vaginal exams, and also explain why the DR wasn't concerned. I can say that as a mandatory reporter I would *never* consider economic status or outward appearances when reporting suspected abuse.

Chronic yeast infection are also very common in small children and infants and can cause vulvar, vaginal, and labial irritation, lesions, itching, and discharge.

It is common for the hymenal ring to be torn and stretched very early on in our society, due to the acceptability of girls and women engaging in sports, and early sexual experimentation. And make no mistake- kids experiment sexually very early on, either with other kids or solo. It is common and perfectly normal.

Personally from what I see in her report I could not say that JB was vaginally abused chronically, or even at all before this assault. I also cannot say that she *wasn't*, but all the talk about chronic abuse is only speculation.

Vaginal and NE problems are common in children is all I can say, and there are numerous causes aside from sexual abuse.

 

[Wudge]

and the pineapple.

I doubt an intruder would feed her pineapple at the kitchen table!

The autopsy report said vegetable or fruit, it "may" have been pineapple.