The Ramseys are Cleared

[TexMex]

LOL! Nothing wrong with a sense of humor!



First of all, Tex, this wasn't "a parent who just killed their kid." This was PATSY RAMSEY, the mother of all mothers! If that's not enough of an illustration for you, I'll elaborate in a minute.

And I don't think she WAS thinking. That's just it. I think it was her instinct, without conscious thought, for the most part. That's what I mean.



No, I don't think you do. But maybe this will clear it up. This is what I wrote a few days ago:

Does anyone remember that picture of JB done up like Marilyn Monroe, complete with the name badge? I do. Now, let's walk this through: what do JB and MM have in common? Well, they were both known for their good looks, and they both died tragically. THUS, my realization.

I have no doubt that it was Patsy who thought that little performance up. Who better to associate your beauty queen daughter with than the most famous blonde of all time? But, what most people overlook is this: one of the big reasons why Marilyn's legend is so strong is because she died tragically. Marilyn died young and at the peak of her fame, her beauty undiminished. She was not allowed to grow old and obscure. (Case in point: Elizabeth Taylor. I love Liz, always will. But I can't help but wonder ['cause I'm weird that way] what it would have been like if she had died fairly young, before all of her health problems and failed marriages relegated her to the pages of supermarket rags. Say, now that I think of it, Patsy kind of resembled Liz, didn't she? Dark-haired, great-looking in her day, health problems, getting older...hmm. This is like a bad Twilight Zone episode!)

Well, what happened to Marilyn happened to JB, and I can't help but wonder if for the same reason. Remember when I gave that spiel about how a person can achieve greater fame dead than alive (ex: "Che" Guevara) [Ask me later?] I don't necessarily mean that JB's death was premeditated (although, there may be those who do). I'm just saying that, if it did start out as an unintentional killing, it might explain to all those naysayers why 911 wasn't called and why all of the staging was done: a child beauty queen, so destined for greatness killed in a common, garden-variety, run-of-the-mill, humdrum domestic incident? That would NEVER do! She was so spectacular in life. She HAD to be spectacular in death. Nothing but the best (or worst, depending on how you see it) for JB. And she IS spectacular in death! Her death made her more well-known to more people than all of her performances put together. Not to mention that it's almost 12 years and people STILL remember her! But a child beauty queen murdered by a revenge-driven pedophile terrorist in her palazzo home right under the noses of her wealthy parents? How cool is that!

I admit, I'm just spitballing, but in good faith, based on the opinions of people like Mike Kane, who said Patsy loved being famous as the mother of a dead beauty queen, and Patsy's own behavior, namely putting such a profound, almost obsessive investment in her daughter and likening her to beautiful blondes who died tragically, such as Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana. (Remember how Patsy couldn't WAIT to comment on Diana's passing in regard to JB? So do I.)

Read it, please.



You misunderstand, Tex. I'm not saying it made her evil, or even wrong. I'm saying that it was her way. It's what she knew.

You know, this is kind of a cruel irony. For years, people tell me, "show me something in their past that makes you think they could do this."

THAT"S WHAT I'M DOING! And for what? So my theories can be turned into cheap amusement? I put a lot of work into this place. I'd hate to think I wasted it.

Dave, I get it now.

I'm saying nobody would make an effort to "doll Up" a child they had just accidentally murdered.

Your position is it was just instinct, like a reflex...that is an interesting theory..

I personally think dressing little girls up like little harlots is wrong. My in laws show pics of dance competitions and pagents with a nine year old with enough make up on for a 35 yr old and some outrageous outfit....it's not good.

 

[BBB167893]

Snip~

SD, I snipped your quote above, but not before I read every word of it; the older post your reposted in this quote, I read again- and I agree 100,000% Your repost was dead on! :clap:

Now, on to the part of this post I have no choice but to bold and reply to:

YOU Nut! "Cheap amusement"???? "Wasted it...????!!!

YOU ARE OUR HERO... Our Super Hero...(caps for emphasis not yelling)

(and to think you are under 30... Dear Lord, why didn't you gift me with as much logic, intelligence, memory files and good old common sense as you did our dear SuperDave???) :clap::clap::clap:

Now, please don't ever post here again about such nonsense... ok?

Again, I apologize. Everyone here knows that I appreciate the support of my fellows, and the challenges of my, shall we says, opponents (lack of a better term.) After all, I have to stay sharp, right?

 

[angelwngs]

Dave, I get it now.

I'm saying nobody would make an effort to "doll Up" a child they had just accidentally murdered.

Your position is it was just instinct, like a reflex...that is an interesting theory..

I personally think dressing little girls up like little harlots is wrong. My in laws show pics of dance competitions and pagents with a nine year old with enough make up on for a 35 yr old and some outrageous outfit....it's not good.

'They' didn't.

'They' dolled up a child that was bashed on the head in a fit of rage.

'They' accidently had 'do away with' their 'damage beyond repair' by finishing the job they began...IMO

 

[TexMex]

I apologize in advance for my loss of temper. It's nobody's fault. I'm just burned out after 10+ years.

It's cool.


Any of ya'll ever try BBQ Cheetos?

Our eldest son brought a bag in just now....SUX

I can feel the heartburn already.

Dave you are a well spoken, thoughtful young man. your Mum and Dad would be so proud.

 

[BBB167893]

Dave, I get it now.

Then we're not so far apart, are we?

I'm saying nobody would make an effort to "doll Up" a child they had just accidentally murdered.

Your position is it was just instinct, like a reflex...that is an interesting theory..

Well, that's where I was trying to end up, Tex. That there wasn't any real effort, it just came naturally.

I find it interesting myself, but it took a long time for me to put it all together. But once I did, I couldn't keep it to myself. Again, it's me spitballing. That's my way of saying: "here's what I think, make up your own minds about it. Just don't blow it off."

I personally think dressing little girls up like little harlots is wrong. My in laws show pics of dance competitions and pagents with a nine year old with enough make up on for a 35 yr old and some outrageous outfit....it's not good.

I agree, i'm just saying whether it's wrong or not wasn't important to my main point.

 

[angelwngs]

Again, I apologize. Everyone here knows that I appreciate the support of my fellows, and the challenges of my, shall we says, opponents (lack of a better term.) After all, I have to stay sharp, right?

No apology needed... Just a couple of: :slap::slap:

 

[BBB167893]

Dave you are a well spoken, thoughtful young man. your Mum and Dad would be so proud.

Thank you Tex. A whole lot. You're all right, you know? Maybe one day you and I will be on the same side. And either way, I'll look forward to it.

 

[TexMex]

'They' didn't.

'They' dolled up a child that was bashed on the head in a fit of rage.

'They' accidently had 'do away with' their 'damage beyond repair' by finishing the job they began...IMO

Hi angelwings

JMO but IF she was killed by her parents in a 'fit of rage' THEY probably would see it as an accident...not a job they began
, that was all I was saying.

 

[angelwngs]

Hi angelwings

JMO but IF she was killed by her parents in a 'fit of rage' THEY probably would see it as an accident...not a job they began
, that was all I was saying.

Igotchaya...

 

[BBB167893]

Right, but my "Marilyn-JB-Diana" post was meant to answer that question. Just saying.

 

[reefshadow]

Try again, reefshadow:

"According to McCann, examination findings that indicate chronic sexual abuse include the thickness of the rim of the hymen, irregularity of the edge of the hymen, the width or narrowness of the wall of the hymen, and exposure of structures of the vagina normally covered by the hymen. His report stated that there was evidence of prior hymeneal trauma as all of these criteria were seen in the post mortem examination of JonBenet"
Specific Evidence of Prior Abuse. "There was a three dimensional thickening from inside to outside on the inferior hymeneal rim with a bruise apparent on the external surface of the hymen and a narrowing of the hymeneal rim from the edge of the hymen to where it attaches to the muscular portion of the vaginal openings. At the narrowing area, there appeared to be very little if any hymen present. There was also exposure of the vaginal rugae, a structure of the vagina which is normally covered by an intact hymen. The hymeneal orifice measured one centimeter which is abnormal or unusual for this particular age group and is further evidence of prior sexual abuse with a more recent injury as shown by the bruised area on the inferior hymeneal rim. A generalized increase in redness of the tissues of the vestibule was apparent, and small red flecks of blood were visible around the perineum and the external surface of the genitalia"

"with a bruise apparent on the external surface of the hymen"

Enough hymeneal tissue to identify a bruise being present.

"The hymeneal orifice measured one centimeter which is abnormal or unusual for this particular age group and is further evidence of prior sexual abuse "

I disagree with McCann on this. Hymeneal structure is *vastly* different from person to person, and an structural abnormality in and of itself should not indicate anything other than a structural abnormality.

*unless you can be SURE of the structure of her vagina and hymen prior to any kind of activity in the vagina there is no way of knowing what was normal for this girl*. At birth to 1 year was her hymen fimbriated? crescentic? septate? microperforate? cribriform? Which one was it?

This tissue structure can vary *considerably* and this is normal.

How was the examination done? Prone? Lithotomic? It makes a difference, *aside* from the fact that the hymen structure can be so variable.

Now if JonBenet or another family member had made specific allegations of sexual abuse it would be another story. The hymen structure is not evidence of anything in and of itself.

 

[reefshadow]

Again from Dr McCann's report, something else that stuck out at me- ""There was also exposure of the vaginal rugae, a structure of the vagina which is normally covered by an intact hymen.""

The vaginal rugae isn't an anatomical structure per se, it is present throughout the whole vaginal canal. Rugae is simply the normal ridges, bumps and folds of normal internal vaginal tissue. What he is saying in laymans terms is that he could see some vaginal tissue through the hymen. He makes it sound like it's some kind of vaginal organ protruding that should only be seen in a grown woman who isn't a virgin.

Really that statement is laughable. In a "normal" "intact" hymen, even accounting for anatomical variation, the anterior portion of the vaginal canal *is* visible, rugae and all.

 

[Anniegirl]

To leave the house with her body produced a multitude of opportunities to be found out.

I think the body was found exactly where the R's wanted it to be found.
(I think the 'by whom' changed as the day wore on.)

They knew the media would be all over it like stink on poo... They made sure that they were...

They were not waiting for the kidnappers to call, IMO. They were waiting for someone to find the body. It just took much longer than they expected and they had to do it themselves. (IMO)

Thank you, That all makes sense to me:blowkiss:

*Yea, im not the sharpest tool in the shed*

 

[philamena]

I tried googling for the pic of the ice tea glass and I'm coming up empty.

Mrs. Mush99,
That picture is at FFJ but I don't know which thread it is on. I also thought it was here on one of the older threads.

 

[santos1014]

No argument. What's your point?



She'd BEEN off it for quite a while and she had several problems, not the least of which was an impending intervention about how she was pushing JB too much



Well, even I have my doubts. Not that she killed her, just for that reason.



A TRUE garrote is the weapon of the people you describe: a cord with a handle on each end. This was just a noose with a handle.



Actually, the police brought in a know expert who said anyone could have tied it.

Funny you should say this ....when all this broke out with the DNA, I was fuming about it, and my 16 yr old daughter asked me why I was mad. I told her the basics, and then had a thought. I asked her to try something for me. I gave her a broken stick from outside and some twine. Told her to knot it up like a person would to strangle someone with it. (NOTE!!! my daughter doesn't blink at these things that I ask...#1. she knows I am very interested in this case, and #2 I am in the law enforcement field.) Oddly enough, she made a garrote very similar to the one used...makes ya think..pretty easy for a 16 yr old GIRL......................

Endnote...she hands it to me and then says...THis is BORING!! LOL..typical teenager.

 

[MoonFlwr]

Funny you should say this ....when all this broke out with the DNA, I was fuming about it, and my 16 yr old daughter asked me why I was mad. I told her the basics, and then had a thought. I asked her to try something for me. I gave her a broken stick from outside and some twine. Told her to knot it up like a person would to strangle someone with it. (NOTE!!! my daughter doesn't blink at these things that I ask...#1. she knows I am very interested in this case, and #2 I am in the law enforcement field.) Oddly enough, she made a garrote very similar to the one used...makes ya think..pretty easy for a 16 yr old GIRL......................

Endnote...she hands it to me and then says...THis is BORING!! LOL..typical teenager.

lol! cute!

(Interesting, the part about her being able to make a similar garrote!)

 

[LI_Mom]

Oh, one more thought about the case.

In Iowa, about ten years ago, a 13 year old boy went missing from his rural home. None of his belongings were missing and the $200 or so he'd accumulated was still present. The entire family (parents, one brother 5 or 6 years younger, baby sister) and dog were home that night and reported no disturbances. The house was repeatedly searched by family and law enforcement personnel.

About two years later, the boy's body was found. In the home. It was an older farmhouse and the basement didn't completely conform to the outside perimeter of the house. It was old enough that a root cellar had been dug that projected out from the perimeter of the house. It had been boarded up at some point, probably after electricity was installed in the 30s. The boy had apparently discovered this forgotten room, turned the boards into a door and made it his private hiding place.

Even though many people had searched that basement, some of them searching for his body (law enforcement suspected that one or both of his parents may have killed him), it was two years before the body was found. The person who found it was the younger brother.

The victim had some in there and his body was found hanging. He was clothed in women's underwear. It's pretty clear that he had discovered autoerotic self asphyxiation and died by mistake.

So the fact that the Ramseys did not immediately locate JonBenet's body does not seem so farfetched to me. Particularly since they were a family who had someone to do most of the housecleaning. It was a large house with a somewhat confusing layout.

What a sad case.

I was looking for more info but can't find anything... do you remember a name?

 

[LI_Mom]

lol! cute!

(Interesting, the part about her being able to make a similar garrote!)

I never thought the garrote looked very complicated either....

My son used to twist string around sticks all the time when he was young.... probably to make grappling hooks or some such crime fighting weapon. lol

 

[angelwngs]

The only possible reason for the ransom note, if there was indeed an intruder, was to buy themselves time in case someone woke up during the intended molestation/murder. The ransom note could never have been intended to gain the money it demanded. It is not possible.

Anyone genuinely wanting the ransom would have figured a way to have gotten even a dead JBR out of the home in order to have successfully obtained the ransom.

So that narrows down any 'possible intruder' to someone who knew the R home well enough to be able to gather together all materials needed from inside the home, without leaving any trace of anything being disturbed, to replace all reusable materials to their proper places, to write a novel of a ransom note, to construct a garrote, to disable JBR in her bed, to take her down a winding, spiral staircase, and into the basement, to crush her skull without awakening a single member of her family not to mention the entire neighborhood of very close homes, to sexually violate her within the home, to strangle her to death within the home, to put the ransom note on the stairs and to leave the home without being detected by anyone. (If you include the found dna as a viable lead to a suspect: and this intruder did all this and only left his dna in one drop of JBR's blood in her panties and two spots of touch dna-)

What sexual sadist/murderer could have possibly known the R's this well, yet fly under their own radar and go undetected as a suspect for 10 long years?

I'm thinking out loud here. I just can not make it possible for it to have been an intruder....No Way...No How...

 

[angelwngs]

WS has a Thread:

Homeless Woman Who Lived Undetected in Japanese Man's Closet for a Year Caught

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,360427,00.html

I'm just considering every possibility here...as unlikely as they might be...

How long could someone have gone undetected in the Ramsey home without leaving tons of dna?

There had to be unidentified touch dna all over that house from numerous unknown visitors recently in the home.

Were the construction workers ever located and tested for DNA?

We have too many vital questions with no answers from legitimate sources.