The Ramseys are no longer “cleared” according to Stan Garnett

[LiveLaughLuv]

The Grand Jury returned more than one indictment?

Where are the arrests from TGJ indictment???

What in the world is going on???

Is there new evidence???

Justice for JonBenet!

 

[BBB167893]

You think weBBsleuths will open it's gates again now if they are no longer cleared?
You know,weBBsl.closing down after the R's were cleared was a disappointment...and a sign for me.....I mean,now that the R's were cleared it's no longer important to find out who the intruder is?Then what was that all about,only supporting the R's?I thought it was about finding out who the intruder was?

Oh, heck, maddy. I figured that out a LONG time ago. That's one of the reasons why I left!

 

[BBB167893]

A lot has been said about the R"s NOT cooperating but they haven't been charged with obstruction of justice. If they hadn't......, with lawyers present they did cooperate just not with any vein of investigation that pointed to them.

I'm not sure what you're saying, CathyR.

 

[KoldKase]

Where are the arrests from TGJ indictment???

What in the world is going on???

Is there new evidence???

Justice for JonBenet!

A D.A. is not compelled to hold a grand jury by law. He can indict and arrest without one.

A D.A. controls the grand jury for the most part. In Colorado, what the grand jury does is sealed for all time...except in gossip circles and maybe the occasional grand juror appearing on a documentary of Larry Schiller's talking about it and having no consequences in spite of all Hunter's previous threats.

Team Ramsey in fact have been "gossiping" for a very long time about the grand jury NOT indicting anyone, or voting NOT to indict the Ramseys. Since we won't ever see that officially confirmed or denied, they can "gossip" all they want about it. Unfortunately, the media, lazy or corrupt as ever, took that "gossip" and then proceeded to repeat it as fact in almost every report I've seen since, with the rare exception. The truth is we don't know officially what the grand jury did, just what Team Ramsey want us to believe.

A grand jury in fact has these choices, led by the D.A.: they can be instructed by the D.A. not to vote at all, just do their job as an "investigative" body to compel witnesses to come forward and be questioned under oath, without their lawyers present, by the way, and to subpoena evidence, etc.; the grand jury can vote to indict one or more persons; the grand jury can vote not to indict anyone; or the grand jury can write a "report", and since I've never seen one written by a grand jury, I don't know what that would entail exactly, but we can guess.

Another rumor is that Hunter instructed the grand jury not to vote at all, and no report was written. So you can see that gossip goes the gamut. I don't believe we really know what they did.

But I do know what Dr. Henry Lee wrote in his book which had a chapter on the JB case: he stated his advice to Hunter after the grand jury was NOT to indict anyone, because Dr. Lee said he didn't believe the case was ready to win in court and as we know, double jeopardy would apply if the verdict was "not guilty." So it sounds to me like Dr. Lee was implying the grand jury voted to indict someone. But that's just a guess, because it also could simply imply that there was no grand jury vote and Hunter was making up his mind on his own.

Ultimately, Caplis also just repeated gossip. Since we have that gossip going both ways, I take it all with a grain of salt.

The bottom line is even if the grand jury did VOTE TO INDICT, that's the D.A.'s decision. We know Hunter would never in a million years want the unethical things he did in office during this investigation to come to light, and in my mind, that's true with Lacy. However happy their actions made Ramsey supporters, in the legal community they effectively destroyed any opportunity for anyone to ever be charged and convicted of this murder.

So no one was indicted by any D.A. and probably no one ever will be, IMO. Not without a confession and some evidence/info only the killer could have.

 

[BBB167893]

Another rumor is that Hunter instructed the grand jury not to vote at all, and no report was written. So you can see that gossip goes the gamut. I don't believe we really know what they did.

But I do know what Dr. Henry Lee wrote in his book which had a chapter on the JB case: he stated his advice to Hunter after the grand jury was NOT to indict anyone, because Dr. Lee said he didn't believe the case was ready to win in court and as we know, double jeopardy would apply if the verdict was "not guilty." So it sounds to me like Dr. Lee was implying the grand jury voted to indict someone. But that's just a guess, because it also could simply imply that there was no grand jury vote and Hunter was making up his mind on his own.

It's not just Henry Lee. Bryan Morgan has said the same thing, which Tracey repeated.

The bottom line is even if the grand jury did VOTE TO INDICT, that's the D.A.'s decision. We know Hunter would never in a million years want the unethical things he did in office during this investigation to come to light, and in my mind, that's true with Lacy. However happy their actions made Ramsey supporters, in the legal community they effectively destroyed any opportunity for anyone to ever be charged and convicted of this murder.

Agreed.

 

[Roy23]

Thanks for posting this Cynic.

A few notes without jumping the gun on speculation. I think this should make RDI happy on a few things. One being that Mary Lacey's exoneration is premature in the eyes of the people in charge now. Even as an IDI, I am very glad to see this. I am not going to criticize SG either even though he has political aspirations on his own. In any event, this is good for the case assuming they really are trying to start over.

I am also somewhat disappointed in Lin Wood. I get that he is doing his job and Boulder LE is probably picking at scars but don't be such a wuss. I think Burke should talk to them. Garnett himself admitted that Burke is cleared and the Ligature was complicated (Sorry Dave) and could not be the killer.

I feel like I am fair but even I will admit that I am more curious than ever now to see all of the evidence. Garnett's mentions of Lacey's incompetence seems sincere in that he disagrees with her decisions. For me, I just want to know who the killer is. I am not sure that a conviction will be easy whether intruder or not so it is important that LE start over and investigate without thinking of all prior boo boos. And if that means putting the Ramsey's under an umbrella of suspicion again, I am all for it. But go get the answer to your DNA problem too and focus on all possible theories.

 

[BBB167893]

Thanks for posting this Cynic.

A few notes without jumping the gun on speculation. I think this should make RDI happy on a few things. One being that Mary Lacey's exoneration is premature in the eyes of the people in charge now.

Very happy. I would have waited a long time for this.

Even as an IDI, I am very glad to see this. I am not going to criticize SG either even though he has political aspirations on his own. In any event, this is good for the case assuming they really are trying to start over.

Agreed.

I am also somewhat disappointed in Lin Wood. I get that he is doing his job and Boulder LE is probably picking at scars but don't be such a wuss.

I'm disappointed in him, too, Roy. Disappointed that he breathes the same air I do.

Garnett himself admitted that Burke is cleared

Fine by me, I never suspected him anyway.

and the Ligature was complicated (Sorry Dave)

What do you mean, "Sorry Dave?" The knot experts who examined the ligature said it was simple. Anyone could have done it. Michael Kane was very specific about that.

I feel like I am fair but even I will admit that I am more curious than ever now to see all of the evidence.

Join the club.

Garnett's mentions of Lacey's incompetence seems sincere in that he disagrees with her decisions.

He's not telling some of us anything we didn't know already.

For me, I just want to know who the killer is. I am not sure that a conviction will be easy whether intruder or not so it is important that LE start over and investigate without thinking of all prior boo boos. And if that means putting the Ramsey's under an umbrella of suspicion again, I am all for it. But go get the answer to your DNA problem too and focus on all possible theories.

Now you're talking my language!

 

[KoldKase]

It's not just Henry Lee. Bryan Morgan has said the same thing, which Tracey repeated.



Agreed.

I don't want you to go digging or spend any time on this, but do you remember off the top of your head where Tracey or Bryant Morgan said this? I haven't seen that and it is rather amazing to hear they'd admit it in any case.

 

[Roy23]

Very happy. I would have waited a long time for this.



Agreed.



I'm disappointed in him, too, Roy. Disappointed that he breathes the same air I do.



Fine by me, I never suspected him anyway.



What do you mean, "Sorry Dave?" The knot experts who examined the ligature said it was simple. Anyone could have done it. Michael Kane was very specific about that.



Join the club.



He's not telling some of us anything we didn't know already.



Now you're talking my language!

Gotta admit Dave that I thought it was gonna never happen too. I sure wish they would give us more. Hopefully they really are trying to crack this thing.

 

[BBB167893]

I don't want you to go digging or spend any time on this, but do you remember off the top of your head where Tracey or Bryant Morgan said this? I haven't seen that and it is rather amazing to hear they'd admit it in any case.

You bet I do! It was at a website called "Scholars and Rogues." Tracey did a lengthy piece for them more than a year ago. Naturally, it's a love letter to himself, but in it, he mentions a discussion with Bryan Morgan (one of the Rs' lawyers) in which they praise Hunter's decision to dismiss the Grand Jury before they could indict.

 

[BBB167893]

Gotta admit Dave that I thought it was gonna never happen too. I sure wish they would give us more. Hopefully they really are trying to crack this thing.

You can't keep a lid on a pot that's boiling, Roy.

 

[KoldKase]

You bet I do! It was at a website called "Scholars and Rogues." Tracey did a lengthy piece for them more than a year ago. Naturally, it's a love letter to himself, but in it, he mentions a discussion with Bryan Morgan (one of the Rs' lawyers) in which they praise Hunter's decision to dismiss the Grand Jury before they could indict.

Thanks so much! I've actually read that...aborted book...of Tracey's. I don't remember that part, though I did vaguely remember reading someone, somewhere saying something similar that surprised me. This must have been it!

Ha. It's still gossip, and from a man who has failed to tell the truth so often in his crocumentaries, he's not much of a source for even that. But if Tracey admitted he heard this from a lawyer close to the investigation, it must have pained him greatly to tell the truth when it contradicted the spin on the grand jury deliberations being spread by Team Ramsey. Something in his long ago journalism training must have surfaced, like an air bubble containing some long lost principle of ethics that had been circling the drain of his subconscious for years....

 

[DeeDee249]

Dr. Henry Lee said in all very simply- "rice already cooked".

It's the "you can't unscramble an egg" or UN-ring a bell.
The mistakes made that morning were irrevocable and altered this case forever.

 

[KoldKase]

Dr. Henry Lee said in all very simply- "rice already cooked".

It's the "you can't unscramble an egg" or UN-ring a bell.
The mistakes made that morning were irrevocable and altered this case forever.

Well, maybe. You have to define "mistakes made that morning."

Because I will go to my grave believing that had the Ramseys' phone records been under subpoena immediately, had those records been obtained by LE within days of the murder, it might have all been over right then.

That little obstruction of the investigation, compliments of Alex Hunter, might have started before 911 was called, for all we know.

I'm not convinced that there wasn't a conspiracy behind the scenes, set to destroy the case very early. The poor judgment of the BPD not securing the scene immediately; not clearing the crime scene of the Ramsey friends; then leaving Arndt alone with so many civilians, awaiting a call from child kidnappers that morning and afternoon; then refusing to even respond to her calls for back up before the body was found; too many elements of bad policing which individually shouldn't have been done by a PD in 1996, much less altogether. I know for a fact, from experience, that in a comparable-sized college town at that time, even a traffic stop brought a back-up assist from other LE. But suddenly Arndt was left alone with a group of adults at the scene of a "kidnapping"? She knew she was in trouble, and they left her hanging out to dry--what PD does that in a CHILD KIDNAPPING in 1996?

Another issue that's never been explained to my satisfaction: why would the FBI conveniently decide to ignore its jurisdiction pronto, deferring to a small PD with little to no experienced in kidnapping cases? When the child belonged to a prominent family, and the father's company was mentioned in the ransom note, that company being A MAJOR DEFENSE CONTRACTOR? Which, by the way, had its own security force which was never alerted, according to Norm Early, who worked it?

PUHLEEZE.

Then the Ramseys were allowed to leave the crime scene without even being searched, were not taken to the BPD for questioning immediately, even if they had to be arrested, which Lou Smit said he would have done. Next Pam Paugh was allowed to raid the home, wearing a BPD jacket, no less. DA prosecutor Hofman (or HoFFman, hard to keep up with all the similar names) even said he had to compel the BPD to continue evidence collection when they were ready to stop that evening (guess he hadn't got the "memo" yet--thank god). The coroner/medical examiner didn't bother to show up until 8 pm with a lame excuse. On and on and on....

Sorry, I'm not that big on conspiracies, but I can't see it any other way looking back at all the years of deliberate obstruction and screw-ups in this case. The end result pretty much was ordained from the beginning, it now appears to me; it was no accident when you look at the long list of deliberate misconduct of the investigating agencies--from the BPD that morning all the way to Hunter, Smit, and Lacy's "exoneration."

That's just too much coincidence for me.

 

[madeleine]

KK,I agree with you.And no it's not paranoia.It started (or maybe not) with Eller instructing them to treat the R's like VICTIMS when they had NO idea what was going on.I said it started with Eller because that's what I know from PMPT.But who knows who else gave instructions to Eller before he sent his officers down there,guess we'll never know.

 

[joeskidbeck]

I guess now we'll see if Stan Garnett has the cajones to start fresh and see it through to the end.

 

[cynic]

I guess now we'll see if Stan Garnett has the cajones to start fresh and see it through to the end.

Cajones? That would go against the longstanding tradition that every Boulder DA must be “spayed or neutered” upon taking office.

 

[joeskidbeck]

:laugh::laugh::laugh:Cajones? That would go against the longstanding tradition that every Boulder DA must be “spayed or neutered” upon taking office.

Thanks, cynic. I needed that laugh really bad today!

 

[cynic]

It would be nice if the mainstream media would clue in to the fact that the Ramseys have been “un-exonerated,” but it doesn’t look like that’s going to happen.

It was good to see this from CW:
Citing a range of physical and circumstantial evidence, Dr. Cyril Wecht, a leading forensic pathologist who co-wrote Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey?, isn’t giving the family a pass. “I think it was an accidental death during a sexually perverse activity.”
The DNA evidence, he adds is a red herring. “It was nothing more than an inadvertent pickup; you and I can shake hands and transfer DNA.”
OK! Weekly, Nov 6, 2010

 

[joeskidbeck]

It would be nice if the mainstream media would clue in to the fact that the Ramseys have been “un-exonerated,” but it doesn’t look like that’s going to happen.

It was good to see this from CW:
Citing a range of physical and circumstantial evidence, Dr. Cyril Wecht, a leading forensic pathologist who co-wrote Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey?, isn’t giving the family a pass. “I think it was an accidental death during a sexually perverse activity.”
The DNA evidence, he adds is a red herring. “It was nothing more than an inadvertent pickup; you and I can shake hands and transfer DNA.”
OK! Weekly, Nov 6, 2010

Hi Cynic! I really believe Dr. Wecht is in this for the long haul. Others may have forgotten JonBenet over the years, but I don't believe he ever will. Kudos to Dr. Wecht!