The ransom note and staging

[Holdontoyourhat]

If they wanted the money, and this crime was to extort money from JR, why did the person stop and assault and kill her before they even got her out of the house?

Pedophiles do not want money....they want the child.

Its very possible the ransom note was really a bluff, to keep the R's occupied. The ransom note really stressed the activities of JR during the day, getting the money, paper bag, etc. The ransom note author has the R's sitting by the phone on the next day, Dec 27, NOT Dec 26. There's really no other way to interpret that.

I agree the core motivation was the 6 year old girl, and the crime has too many sexual aspects to it to rule out a pedophile.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

If the kidnapping went wrong and they decided not to take JonBenet with them after all, why even take the risk of leaving the RN behind, knowing it would be evidence? Why not just walk out and disappear with the Rs and the police wondering what the heck happened? It's not for time - LE would have a lot harder time figuring out they need to shut down airports, etc., if they have no idea that there was ever a kidnapping plot and the perp is a foreigner who needs to catch a flight out of town.

Ask TK why he wrote the manifesto.

 

[Solace]

Ask TK why he wrote the manifesto.

Who is TK and what are you talking about?

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Unabomber Ted Kaczynski. I hardly think you can compare his Manifesto with the Ramsey RN, and I'm not sure you can draw a parallel between the motives without knowing who wrote the RN.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

If the kidnapping went wrong and they decided not to take JonBenet with them after all, why even take the risk of leaving the RN behind, knowing it would be evidence? Why not just walk out and disappear with the Rs and the police wondering what the heck happened? It's not for time - LE would have a lot harder time figuring out they need to shut down airports, etc., if they have no idea that there was ever a kidnapping plot and the perp is a foreigner who needs to catch a flight out of town.

Ask Ted Kaczynski why he wrote his 'Unabomber Manifesto', "knowing it would be evidence?"

He wanted his literary work read and published, as if he had something worthwhile to say, politically or socially.

Sure enough, the RN has political and social remarks that pertain to status and nationality, doesn't it.

 

[Solace]

Ask Ted Kaczynski why he wrote his 'Unabomber Manifesto', "knowing it would be evidence?"

He wanted his literary work read and published, as if he had something worthwhile to say, politically or socially.

Sure enough, the RN has political and social remarks that pertain to status and nationality, doesn't it.

Are you serious? Not even the Ramseys believe that. They believe a very sick individual took killed their child and John still does.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

As far as I know, Solace, HOTYH is the only person here who actually believes the RN was a real ransom note from the first pen-stroke and that there was an actual representative of a foreign faction writing it.

I have to give him credit for sticking with his theory and maintaining it no matter what argument others toss at him.

 

[Solace]

As far as I know, Solace, HOTYH is the only person here who actually believes the RN was a real ransom note from the first pen-stroke and that there was an actual representative of a foreign faction writing it.

I have to give him credit for sticking with his theory and maintaining it no matter what argument others toss at him.

Okay, Holdon gets credit for sticking to his/her theory. But that is it. Holdon. Someone in that family murdered JonBenet for some reason. There is no evidence, fiber-wise or DNA-wise to say the opposite. It has been 10 years. Was watching a show the other night, a man kills his wife, long story, but the morning she is found and right after he speaks with police, he is planning on leaving town. Seems to be a common thread with people who kill their own, they like to get out of town pretty fast. There are always going to be people who believe the Ramsey spin, but one of the glaring facts of this case is that a mother would have a very very hard time leaving her six year old under a Christmas tree, dead, and alone, just a few hours after she had been found. And you can say everyone acts differently. I would imagine that 10 out of 10 mothers (who are innocent of the crime that is) would have to be physically removed from the child. They are just not leaving her.

 

[Toltec]

DOI: page 23...

John Ramsey is speaking: Patsy is wailing. "Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead. Ask him to raise our daughter. Pray for JonBenet!"

HUH?

That is something Susan Lucci would say (soap opera)....not a shocked and devastated mother. It sounds scripted, like the 911 call.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

As far as I know, Solace, HOTYH is the only person here who actually believes the RN was a real ransom note from the first pen-stroke and that there was an actual representative of a foreign faction writing it.

I have to give him credit for sticking with his theory and maintaining it no matter what argument others toss at him.

Of course the RN was real. Real paper with real words on it, written by the real perp.

I think the ransom note was used by the perp to express some stupid social/status point, divert attention from a house search for their daughter, and to buy time.

Putting it another way, suppose there was a river running thru the R's house. The perp would've thrown JBR into it. Since there was no river, the perp hid JBR in the most remote place in the house, and blocked the R's from finding their daughter the best way possible, with a fake kidnapping for ransom scenario.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Okay, Holdon gets credit for sticking to his/her theory. But that is it. Holdon. Someone in that family murdered JonBenet for some reason. There is no evidence, fiber-wise or DNA-wise to say the opposite. It has been 10 years. Was watching a show the other night, a man kills his wife, long story, but the morning she is found and right after he speaks with police, he is planning on leaving town. Seems to be a common thread with people who kill their own, they like to get out of town pretty fast. There are always going to be people who believe the Ramsey spin, but one of the glaring facts of this case is that a mother would have a very very hard time leaving her six year old under a Christmas tree, dead, and alone, just a few hours after she had been found. And you can say everyone acts differently. I would imagine that 10 out of 10 mothers (who are innocent of the crime that is) would have to be physically removed from the child. They are just not leaving her.

Sorry, but the perp's an aggressive pedophile, or child predator, who probably has a rap sheet. You can tell that by the evidence. Whether or not he's a psychotic or sociopath is up for grabs, but he's one or both. That pretty much excludes the R's, who have no history or complaints along those lines whatsoever.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Ask Ted Kaczynski why he wrote his 'Unabomber Manifesto', "knowing it would be evidence?"

He wanted his literary work read and published, as if he had something worthwhile to say, politically or socially.

Sure enough, the RN has political and social remarks that pertain to status and nationality, doesn't it.

Are you serious? Not even the Ramseys believe that. They believe a very sick individual took killed their child and John still does.

Does this mean you think the Unabomber isn't a very sick individual?

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Of course the RN was real. Real paper with real words on it, written by the real perp.

I agree with that. It was a letter written with real words on real paper, and most likely by the real perp.

I think the ransom note was used by the perp to express some stupid social/status point, divert attention from a house search for their daughter, and to buy time.

I agree again with the points about expressing social and status points (reference to business and Southern common sense) and diverting attention, but the perp had no way of knowing the police wouldn't find the body with the search they'd initially do, and shut the city down to find the kidnapper.

Putting it another way, suppose there was a river running thru the R's house. The perp would've thrown JBR into it. Since there was no river, the perp hid JBR in the most remote place in the house, and blocked the R's from finding their daughter the best way possible, with a fake kidnapping for ransom scenario.

I think if the author of the RN had wanted to remove JonBenet from the house, s/he would have, and wouldn't have needed a river to do it. Any ditch or sewer or alleyway, anything outside of the R house (no offense to JBR) would have sufficed - but I think a person who intended to kidnap her would have taken her to a pre-arranged safe place. I don't think JonBenet would have been in that house, dead or otherwise, if the author of the RN was actually a kidnapper who wanted a ransom.

In that aspect, I don't believe that ridiculously long and rambling RN was what it appears to have been intended to be - a ransom note demanding money for the return of John Ramsey's daughter.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I agree with that. It was a letter written with real words on real paper, and most likely by the real perp.

Most likely??

Saying that the ransom note was 'most likely' written by the real perp is a massive understatement.

JBR was brutally murdered, and there was a brutally violent, bizarre, and highly unusual ransom note found there the same night. Written by the real perp? Of course it was.

I'm glad you agree, though.

 

[Solace]

Most likely??


Saying that the ransom note was 'most likely' written by the real perp is a massive understatement. Why? I am playing devil's advocate. How do you know it was not written by someone who aided and abetted.

JBR was brutally murdered, and there was a brutally violent, bizarre, and highly unusual ransom note found there the same night. Written by the real perp? Of course it was. Maybe two people were involved in the killing.

I'm glad you agree, though.

Holdon, not necessarily, maybe it was written by someone who helped the real perp. That being said, I think Patsy wrote it for a number of reasons, but the handwriting and the language are very very similar to Patsys.

 

[Solace]

Does this mean you think the Unabomber isn't a very sick individual?

Holdon. Try to keep up. The TK case is completely different from the Ramsey case. The Ramseys have a rage killing in their house that evening, one murder, one night, one incident. No evidence of an intruder. Evidence leads back to a member of the household. The note is meant to deceive. That is fairly obvious.

TK on the other hand is a killer of many and wants to be noticed by many and on and on. He is out of his mind!

Someone in the Ramsey house may have been temporarily out of their mind when the killing occurred or maybe not. But either way, comparing the two cases is, I am sorry Holdon, but ludicrous.

 

[Solace]

Sorry, but the perp's an aggressive pedophile, or child predator, who probably has a rap sheet. You can tell that by the evidence. Whether or not he's a psychotic or sociopath is up for grabs, but he's one or both. That pretty much excludes the R's, who have no history or complaints along those lines whatsoever.

And you know this how?

There is no evidence of any semen at the scene of the crime. This is a staged assault Holdon. And you did not react to my statement that Patsy was completely willing to leave her child who was found dead and assaulted and battered under the christmas tree without a fight. Now if my child were found dead, you would have to sedate me and carry me out. I am not leaving her that soon, no way, nada, not happening, JUST PLAIN NO.

And that old excuse people react differently just does not cut it. She is involved right up to her ears and then some.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

If I wanted to judge someone's after-the-fact behavior, I'd have to be there to see it, to see how it all happened, and in what context each person's actions were taken.

Years later, from my position, having never been there, I'm not qualified to judge the R's or the BPD on their after-the-fact reactions.

On the other hand, if PR or JR were known to be subject to rage attacks, battery, , etc., having their own domestic rap sheet, then your argument that PR had a fit of rage would have merit. Otherwise its just an idea borne of 'circular reasoning', where you believe that because someone was murdered in the house, someone in the house must have done it, therefore PR or JR or BR must have a murdering personality, capable of murder, motive for murder, etc.

The R's house isn't a 'closed system'. It has doors and windows and everything. The argument that the rest of the family becomes suspicious would have more validity in a closed system, like a ship at sea or a moving train.

 

[Solace]

If I wanted to judge someone's after-the-fact behavior, I'd have to be there to see it, to see how it all happened, and in what context each person's actions were taken.

Years later, from my position, having never been there, I'm not qualified to judge the R's or the BPD on their after-the-fact reactions.

On the other hand, if PR or JR were known to be subject to rage attacks, battery, , etc., having their own domestic rap sheet, then your argument that PR had a fit of rage would have merit. Otherwise its just an idea borne of 'circular reasoning', where you believe that because someone was murdered in the house, someone in the house must have done it, therefore PR or JR or BR must have a murdering personality, capable of murder, motive for murder,

The R's house isn't a 'closed system'. It has doors and windows and everything. The argument that the rest of the family becomes suspicious would have more validity in a closed system, like a ship at sea or a moving train.

etc.

Holdon, I believe it is about 40% of murders of children had no history of attacks prior. As far as it being that it was done in the house means someone in the house did it, is ridiculous. However, the fact that fibers from Patsy's sweater are found under the tape and Patsy was nowhere near the tape over JonBenet's mouth and fibers from her sweater are found in the garrotte and in the paint tray. Patsy says this happened when she hugged JonBenet after her body was brought up. BUT THERE WAS A BLANKET OVER HER. This is evidence that if the Ramseys had been separated and John had not been allowed to touch the body and these fibers were found, you could say adios to John and Patsy. But John and Patsy had their lawyers interviewing the White's THAT DAY. So please, give me some evidence of an intruder and we will all look at it and not that old DNA that the Ramseys are hanging onto by their fingernails. It is pathetic. One of them or both of them had a hand in this.

And lets not forget that there is something to be said for being a "mother". The bond between a mother and a child is superseded ONLY by that of "twins".

 

[Toltec]

Sorry, but the perp's an aggressive pedophile, or child predator, who probably has a rap sheet. You can tell that by the evidence. Whether or not he's a psychotic or sociopath is up for grabs, but he's one or both. That pretty much excludes the R's, who have no history or complaints along those lines whatsoever.

Psychotics leave lots of evidence behind a disorganized crime scene.

Sociopaths leave little or no evidence behind a usually organized crime scene...BUT sociopaths do not CARE how the victim is left behind....IOW Sociopaths do not wrap their victims in what John Ramsey describes..."as if they cared about her" style.