The ransom note and staging

  • #161
Toltec said:
Psychotics leave lots of evidence behind a disorganized crime scene.

Sociopaths leave little or no evidence behind a usually organized crime scene...BUT sociopaths do not CARE how the victim is left behind....IOW Sociopaths do not wrap their victims in what John Ramsey describes..."as if they cared about her" style.
Are you telling me that the person who sexually assaulted, strangled, and headbashed a 6 year old girl taken from her bed, and writes a bizarre three page ransom note, is neither psychotic or sociopathic? What are they then?
 
  • #162
Holdontoyourhat said:
Are you telling me that the person who sexually assaulted, strangled, and headbashed a 6 year old girl taken from her bed, and writes a bizarre three page ransom note, is neither psychotic or sociopathic? What are they then?
Probably full of rage that they are (1) exhausted from being up for 15 hours; (2) just going into remission from Ovarian Stage IV cancer; (3) just turned 40 years old; (3) packing for a trip to Michigan to be ready in about 6 hours, that Patsy did not want to go on to begin with; or maybe none of the above; possibly there is an incestuous relationship going on with someone and JonBenet in the family; or possibly another scenario; either way this family is involved.
 
  • #163
Holdontoyourhat said:
Are you telling me that the person who sexually assaulted, strangled, and headbashed a 6 year old girl taken from her bed, and writes a bizarre three page ransom note, is neither psychotic or sociopathic? What are they then?

The killer is a terrified mother who realized what she had done to her precious daughter. Self-preservation kicked in, hence the staging.
 
  • #164
Toltec said:
The killer is a terrified mother who realized what she had done to her precious daughter. Self-preservation kicked in, hence the staging.
Absolutely. It doesn't take someone psychotic or sociopathic to have a momentary breakdown due to stress or whatever and lash out at their child, only to realize they've lost their grasp of control and went too far after they've done something they can't undo. After that, so all she can do is try to save herself and the rest of the family.
 
  • #165
Nuisanceposter said:
Absolutely. It doesn't take someone psychotic or sociopathic to have a momentary breakdown due to stress or whatever and lash out at their child, only to realize they've lost their grasp of control and went too far after they've done something they can't undo. After that, so all she can do is try to save herself and the rest of the family.
And frankly, she would not have to hit that hard to cause what she did. It would not take both hands on the maglight, one would do, if that is the murder weapon.
 
  • #166
Toltec said:
The killer is a terrified mother who realized what she had done to her precious daughter. Self-preservation kicked in, hence the staging.
And in this so-called 'staging', she applies not only brutality in word, but brutality in deed, with sexual assault and a kidnapping for ransom on the side?

Self preservation would lead to a mixture of sexual assault and kidnapping for ransom evidence? I could understand one or the other, but both?

The idea that sexual assault and kidnapping would be superimposed as a staging attempt seems unlikely. Why then would they call 911 a full day before the RN said they needed to?
 
  • #167
Holdontoyourhat said:
And in this so-called 'staging', she applies not only brutality in word, but brutality in deed, with sexual assault and a kidnapping for ransom on the side?

A staged kidnapping. IMO, JonBenet was molested by someone earlier that day. As far as the note goes....words are words.

Self preservation would lead to a mixture of sexual assault and kidnapping for ransom evidence? I could understand one or the other, but both?

That is why the note is a red herring.

The idea that sexual assault and kidnapping would be superimposed as a staging attempt seems unlikely. Why then would they call 911 a full day before the RN said they needed to?

Patsy wrote the note in the wee hours of the morning....in her mind is was still Christmas and the next day is tomorrow.
 
  • #168
Toltec said:
Patsy wrote the note in the wee hours of the morning....in her mind is was still Christmas and the next day is tomorrow.

Toltec,

The ransom note is staging, its content is staging, its intent is staging.

Its futile to infer anything from it, its purpose was not intended as a roadmap to the internal workings of the killers mind!


.
 
  • #169
UKGuy said:
Toltec,

The ransom note is staging, its content is staging, its intent is staging.

Its futile to infer anything from it, its purpose was not intended as a roadmap to the internal workings of the killers mind!


.
Well then, crumple it up into a ball and throw it away, and continue on your 10 year old search for the killer of JBR.
 
  • #170
If any parent becomes aware that their 6 year old child is in danger, and fails to report it to police, the parent could be liable. The perp could be psychotic, and failure to act or delaying action on the part of the parent could be harmful in itself to the child.

I think the RN writer, by going so heavy on the violence stuff (beheading, she dies, etc.) shocked them to the phone.

I think you misunderstood me. I didn't mean calling the police. I meant when they called all their friends over before the cops had even arrived.

Besides, the RN gave them until the next day, the 27th, to call police. The fact they called early proves they had nothing to do with it.

How can you be so sure? We don't even know when it was written. I can't tell you how many times I've been awake during the wee hours and referred to that day as tomorrow.

Holdon, I believe it is about 40% of murders of children had no history of attacks prior.

It's true, I'm afraid.

Are you telling me that the person who sexually assaulted, strangled, and headbashed a 6 year old girl taken from her bed, and writes a bizarre three page ransom note, is neither psychotic or sociopathic? What are they then?

Desperate.

And in this so-called 'staging', she applies not only brutality in word, but brutality in deed, with sexual assault and a kidnapping for ransom on the side?

Looks that way. What choice was there? It had to look brutal, so it would be convincing (it wasn't, but not for lack of trying). Or did you read what Norm Early said? I put a lot of effort into posting that. I'd hate to think I wasted it.

There is a factor that only a few seem to get: these people didn't KNOW what
a real crime scene would look like. They just threw everything they could think of into it, like an army stew. The bodily staging created a crime, and the note created a criminal. It's not that big a leap of imagination.

Self preservation would lead to a mixture of sexual assault and kidnapping for ransom evidence? I could understand one or the other, but both?

That's what happens when you're an amateur. Here's an analogy: if you're forbidden to get a driver's license, are forbidden to learn how to drive and are forbidden from even talking about learning how to drive, then somebody throws you a set of keys to a Lamborghini, I don't think it will come as any great shock if you get into an accident.

Here's something. It's written as comedy, but I believe it is essentially what happened (if any of you have children, take them from the room before you read this, and I am deadly serious about that):

http://bettybowers.com/ramseys.html

The idea that sexual assault and kidnapping would be superimposed as a staging attempt seems unlikely.

Actually, it was the superimposition of the two that tipped the authorities off. Don't take my word for it either.
 
  • #171
SuperDave said:
Actually, it was the superimposition of the two that tipped the authorities off. Don't take my word for it either.
Tipped them off to what? Last I heard, they needed to fly Karr to Boulder to check him and his story out, on his claim of having killed JBR. Nobody's tipped off to anything. You're making that up.
 
  • #172
Tipped them off to what?

I'm very glad you asked. Let's find out, shall we?

the FBI team said the crime "did not fit an act of sex or revenge or one in which money was the motivation. Taken alone, they said, each piece of evidence might be argued, but together, enough pebbles become a block of evidentiary granite."

Pedophiles and ransom kidnappers are two different animals. They don't cross over. That's straight from the horse's mouth.

Last I heard, they needed to fly Karr to Boulder to check him and his story out, on his claim of having killed JBR.

I should have been more specific. I meant CASKU, not the DA who never bothered to read her own file. Again, you don't have to take my word for it. Ask Michael Kane. It's not my fault she's a biased b**ch.

Nobody's tipped off to anything. You're making that up
.

The HELL I am!
 
  • #173
SuperDave said:
I'm very glad you asked. Let's find out, shall we?



Pedophiles and ransom kidnappers are two different animals. They don't cross over. That's straight from the horse's mouth.



I should have been more specific. I meant CASKU, not the DA who never bothered to read her own file. Again, you don't have to take my word for it. Ask Michael Kane. It's not my fault she's a biased b**ch.

.

The HELL I am!
Oh, so its not "the superimposition of the two that tipped the authorities off," as if there's been some grand universal conclusion that we can all agree on. Its more like some authorities believe one thing while others believe something else.
 
  • #174
Don't waste that twisting stuff on me. I know what I said.

Oh, so its not "the superimposition of the two that tipped the authorities off," as if there's been some grand universal conclusion that we can all agree on. Its more like some authorities believe one thing while others believe something else.

Those are two different topics, HOTYH. We'll get to that later. But an elite agency with more investigated child abductions and murders under their collective belt is on my side.
 
  • #175
SuperDave said:
Don't waste that twisting stuff on me. I know what I said.



Those are two different topics, HOTYH. We'll get to that later. But an elite agency with more investigated child abductions and murders under their collective belt is on my side.
No they're not. Its an unsolved murder, and if they had a lead they'd follow it. There's been no 'tip off' that the ransom note definitely means one thing or another.
 
  • #176
No they're not.

Oh, yeah??

As part of the Boulder police's investigation, they accepted an invitation from the FBI to put on a full presentation of the case to the FBI's Child Abduction and Serial Killer Unit based at Quantico, Va. over 20 CASKU team members, including hair and fiber experts, attended the August 1997 briefing. Police investigators reviewed the autopsy results, and crime scene photos. In turn, CASKU agents reported that of the more than 1,700 murdered children they had studied since the 1960s, there was only one case in which the victim was a female under the age of 12, who had been murdered in her home by strangulation, with sexual assault and a ransom note present: JonBenet Ramsey. The agents told the Boulder investigators that while it might be possible that someone broke into the house that day, it was not very probable. The staging of the crime, the evidence presented to them by the Boulder police, and the totality of the case pointed in one direction: This was not the act of an intruder.

the FBI team said the crime "did not fit an act of sex or revenge or one in which money was the motivation. Taken alone, they said, each piece of evidence might be argued, but together, enough pebbles become a block of evidentiary granite."

"CASKU observed that they had never seen anything like the Ramsey ransom note. Kidnapping demands are usually terse, such as 'We have your kid. A million dollars. Will call you.' From a kidnapper's point of view, the fewer words, the less police have to go on."

The FBI "believed that the note was written in the house, after the murder, and indicated panic. Ransom notes are normally written prior to the crime, usually proofread, and not written by hand, in order to disguise the authorship."

the FBI deemed the entire crime "criminally unsophisticated," citing the child being left on the premises, the oddness of the $118,000 demand in relation to the multi-million dollar net worth of the Ramsey, and the concept of a ransom delivery where one would be "scanned for electronic devices." Kidnappers prefer isolated drops for the ransom delivery, not wanting to chance a face-to-face meeting.

CASKU profilers also observed that placing JonBenet's body in the basement indicated the involvement of a parent, rather than an intruder. A parent would not want to place the body outside in the frigid night. They also stated that the ligatures "indicated staging rather than control, and the garrote was used from behind so the killer could avoid eye contact, typical of someone who cares for the victim." the profilers had the gut feeling that "no one intended to kill the child." This would mean that the severe blow to the head was done in a thoughtless rage and that all the subsequent assault on JonBenet and the writing of the ransom note was staged to cover up the unintentional murder.

Whoever killed JonBenet didn't fear getting caught. FBI profilers conjectured that the crime "was committed by someone who had a high degree of comfort inside the home. The murderer spent a good deal of time with the victim, bashing in her head, dragging her down two stories to the basement, wiping down her vaginal area, taping her mouth, tying up her wrists, garroting her, carefully, even lovingly, placing a white blanket over her, calmly writing what the Boulder police called the War And Peace of ransom notes, and then placing that ransom note just where Patsy Ramsey would be most likely to find it when she came down the backstairs in the morning."

Its an unsolved murder, and if they had a lead they'd follow it.

They would if they had jurisdiction. In fact, Jeff Shapiro thinks that the case should be given to them.

There's been no 'tip off' that the ransom note definitely means one thing or another.

Tell them that.
 
  • #177
SuperDave said:
Oh, yeah??





They would if they had jurisdiction. In fact, Jeff Shapiro thinks that the case should be given to them.



Tell them that.
Sorry, still didn't see 'tipped off'. I read 'conjectured,' 'believed', and 'observed', but I did not read 'concluded'. Big difference. So they weren't 'tipped off', as you say. Thats something you said, not something CASKU said.
 
  • #178
The whole CASKU report is probably obsolete anyway, if it is from August 1997. Unidentified male DNA might prevent a similar report from being issued from CASKU today.
 
  • #179
Sorry, still didn't see 'tipped off'. I read 'conjectured,' 'believed', and 'observed', but I did not read 'concluded'. Big difference.

Read the books if you don't believe me.

So they weren't 'tipped off', as you say. Thats something you said, not something CASKU said.

How about Ron Walker? He knew it was phony the minute he laid eyes on the note. That's like a papal bull.

That whole DNA business is just plain bull.
 
  • #180
SuperDave said:
Read the books if you don't believe me.



How about Ron Walker? He knew it was phony the minute he laid eyes on the note. That's like a papal bull.

That whole DNA business is just plain bull.
The DNA is bull, the RN is bull. The garrote was just a prop, so thats bull too. The basement crime scene was staged, so its bull. The R's reaction after the murder was bull.

Pretty soon RDI is going to run out of 'bull' cards, and start facing facts.
 

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