The ransom note and staging

  • #241
Thanks, HOTYH, none of those links say the two samples of DNA match each other....because they haven't be able to prove that yet.

The fingernail DNA can never be matched to any other DNA, as it was so degraded they can't get enough markers from it to match it to anything, and there's an issue of contamination.

We also don't know that any of the DNA is from a white male. Male, yes, white, no.
 
  • #242
Holdontoyourhat said:
http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/feb_13.html

"Unknown male DNA was found under JonBenet's fingernails and other unknown DNA was found on her body and her panties."


http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-08-28-karr-colorado-court_x.htm

"Investigators have said DNA was found in blood spots on JonBenet's underwear, but a Ramsey family attorney said two years ago it didn't match any of the 1.5 million samples in an FBI database at the time. Other DNA recovered under the girl's fingernails is degraded, Grant said."


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0608/24/acd.02.html

"SILVERMAN: I believe it is strong and reliable. And understand that that advanced testing in 2003 probably led Mary Lacy to the startling statement, I'm clearing the Ramseys. We know it's white male DNA, we know it doesn't match John Ramsey, it couldn't be Patsy Ramsey. It was strong enough and enough of a profile that they could submit it to the FBI database. So it's just nonsense that this DNA is not quality DNA."
Holdon: Thank you for posting the information.
 
  • #243
Nuisanceposter said:
Thanks, HOTYH, none of those links say the two samples of DNA match each other....because they haven't be able to prove that yet.

The fingernail DNA can never be matched to any other DNA, as it was so degraded they can't get enough markers from it to match it to anything, and there's an issue of contamination.

We also don't know that any of the DNA is from a white male. Male, yes, white, no.
Where do you derive your "white, no" opinion from?
 
  • #244
  • #245
  • #246
Way off. Not even close.

And what makes you more of an expert than Mr. DePue? In fact, here's what his collegue, Robert Ressler said:

"style, language and information contained in the note point to an approximately 40-year-old white woman from the South"

"Absolutely phony"

And I could go on and on.

Special Agent Ron Walker (a behavioral scientist himself) read the ransom note and knew it was not real. After arriving at the Ramsey home he proceeded to the basement and commented...

"Look at the parents...no bulls**t."

He also said this:

"Well, as much as it pains me to say it, yes, I've seen parents who have decapitated their children, I've seen cases where parents have drowned their children in bathtubs, I've seen cases where parents have strangled their children, have placed them in paper bags and smothered them, have strapped them in car seats and driven them into a body of water, any way that you can think of that a person can kill another person, almost all those ways are also ways that parents can kill their children."

As long as JBR's killer is not positively identified, you kinda have to be open to various ideas,

It's one thing to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brain falls out.

If PR's handwriting matched the handwriting in the RN, she would've been arrested and tried. There is no match, so she wasn't.

I'm afraid it's more complicated than that. In fact, almost to answer you, Pete Hofstrom actually said, "So what if she wrote the note. That doesn't prove she killed her kid."

HOTYH, there are many reasons why Patsy Ramsey wasn't put in prison. Lack of evidence ain't one of 'em, and I'd be glad to list them for you.

Holdon: There are six experts who believe her handwriting matches:
Among the six experts who believe Patsy Ramsey wrote the note are Gideon Epstein and Cina Wong, who said they were "100 percent certain" Mrs. Ramsey wrote the ransom note.

True.

They are not for pretend as RDI claims. They are for real.

I'm afraid the evidence says otherwise: no marks from restraint, no marks from the cord moving on the neck, etc.

There are some pretty qualified experts, such as FBI, who "discard" the evidence as staging and not an authentic kidnapping-gone-wrong. There's plenty of good reason to "discard" things like the RN and the wrist restraints and tape as staging and not as what they were meant to appear as.
I think CASKU is capable of discerning a real crime scene from a staged one. It's a panel of experts who specialize in crimes like this. If they thought it looked staged, and saw "staging within staging", then I think they knew exactly what they were talking about.

That's more homicide experience talking than we'll ever have.

There's only after-the-murder stuff here. Nothing before the murder?

Any reason why that's not enough? But if you must know, JonBenet was reported to be behaving oddly after a trip to Texas.

Thanks, HOTYH, none of those links say the two samples of DNA match each other....because they haven't be able to prove that yet.

Afraid he's right.

Where do you derive your "white, no" opinion from?

Tom Wickman. He was the evidence man in this case. He stated on tv back in December that there wasn't enough DNA to test for race anyway.

I wonder why Silverman would say it was white male.

He was misinformed, and practically admitted it on a radio broadcast a few weeks later.
 
  • #247
SuperDave said:
HOTYH, there are many reasons why Patsy Ramsey wasn't put in prison. Lack of evidence ain't one of 'em, and I'd be glad to list them for you.
There are some real actual evidence that would've landed an R in court, but none of which are present in this case. PR or JR's DNA under JBR's fingernails. Scratches on an R's face or arms. Complaints by JBR's pediatrician from before the murder. Domestic disturbances reported by neighbors. Complaints by JBR during the days or weeks preceding the murder.

There's really no evidence againts PR, is there. At least not any evidence that hasn't been misconstrued.

SuperDave said:
I'm afraid the evidence says otherwise: no marks from restraint, no marks from the cord moving on the neck, etc.
Are we discussing the same case? Please read page 2 and 3 of the coroners report, which is a complete contradiction to this remark.


SuperDave said:
That's more homicide experience talking than we'll ever have.
Discovering the solution doesn't automatically require homicide experience. You could spend your whole degreed LE career and never solve this case. Meanwhile, anybody could literally trip over it, turn around, pick it up, and its solved!

The case doesn't care who solves it.
 
  • #248
Mary Lacy: "We know it's white male DNA, we know it doesn't match John Ramsey, it couldn't be Patsy Ramsey."

There's one more male Ramsey and his friends who Lacy and some others conveniently leave out of their scenarios. You cannot determine race from a DNA sample. Therefore, Lacy's "white" male comment was another slip of the tongue because IMO she knows who killed JonBenet, and the killer is a white male.

BlueCrab
 
  • #249
How does the Karr fiasco fit in with this idea? Certainly they wouldn't have had him submit DNA samples if they already knew who did it.
 
  • #250
BlueCrab said:
Mary Lacy: "We know it's white male DNA, we know it doesn't match John Ramsey, it couldn't be Patsy Ramsey."

There's one more male Ramsey and his friends who Lacy and some others conveniently leave out of their scenarios. You cannot determine race from a DNA sample. Therefore, Lacy's "white" male comment was another slip of the tongue because IMO she knows who killed JonBenet, and the killer is a white male.

BlueCrab
We know it is male DNA. WE DO NOT KNOW THE RACE.
 
  • #251
BlueCrab said:
Mary Lacy: "We know it's white male DNA, we know it doesn't match John Ramsey, it couldn't be Patsy Ramsey."

There's one more male Ramsey and his friends who Lacy and some others conveniently leave out of their scenarios. You cannot determine race from a DNA sample. Therefore, Lacy's "white" male comment was another slip of the tongue because IMO she knows who killed JonBenet, and the killer is a white male.

BlueCrab
Or, we can consider that Mary Lacy is an idiot.
 
  • #252
BlueCrab said:
Mary Lacy: "We know it's white male DNA, we know it doesn't match John Ramsey, it couldn't be Patsy Ramsey."

There's one more male Ramsey and his friends who Lacy and some others conveniently leave out of their scenarios. You cannot determine race from a DNA sample. Therefore, Lacy's "white" male comment was another slip of the tongue because IMO she knows who killed JonBenet, and the killer is a white male.

BlueCrab
It also fits in with Tracey who has made his living off this case and Ramsey is just fine with it. It keeps the light off him and on this pedofile Karr. The man is just low. Not beyond implicating the innocent to make money.
 
  • #253
Solace said:
Or, we can consider that Mary Lacy is an idiot.
Lol. She admitted to not knowing the details of the case. She's at best ignorant when it comes to the Ramsey murder. I think she said white male because she'd been told it was a white male and she just repeated it.
 
  • #254
Nuisanceposter said:
Lol. She admitted to not knowing the details of the case. She's at best ignorant when it comes to the Ramsey murder. I think she said white male because she'd been told it was a white male and she just repeated it.
Anyone who is willing to stand in front of the camera and make statements that are untrue about one of the most talked about cases of the 20th century is an idiot and a lazy idiot at that. That combination is deadly.

Plus she has an attitude doesn't she. For someone who is so illiterate about this case, she certainly has an attitude.
 
  • #255
UKGuy said:
Toltec,
Sure she was asked, here is her reply




No bath, and a definite on fresh underwear!

.

She would have...but did she? Patsy stated that JonBenet would not wash her hands if she could get away with it. What child who does not care to wash her hands want to change panties?

Patsy said she would....why didn't Patsy say she did change her panties? Wasn't she present when JonBenet dressed herself?
 
  • #256
Toltec said:
She would have...but did she? Patsy stated that JonBenet would not wash her hands if she could get away with it. What child who does not care to wash her hands want to change panties?

Patsy said she would....why didn't Patsy say she did change her panties? Wasn't she present when JonBenet dressed herself?

Toltec,

Patsy knew any affirmative answers on the underwear would raise other questions about the size-12's ect, and that was a subject too far, so maybe's, possibly's and selective amnesia become the order of the day.

I reckon Patsy was there, she was when the red turtleneck becomes important enough to explain away. Its not as if she was just going out to play, it was an xmas party.

If you know your daughter has toilet issues then its one thing not to bother domestically, but externally surely you make sure she is washed and dressed appropriately?



.
 
  • #257
Patsy did not bother to bathe her daughter daily which most mothers do. Little girls do not properly wipe themselves.

Christmas day had Burke and JonBenet running in and out of the house. Surely Patsy could have taken time out to bathe her daughter. If not, then she should have taken JonBenet into the shower with her.

The wiping down of JonBenet was a result of molestation and soiled bottom. When this molestation occured has me scratching my head.

JonBenet had several opportunities to be violated...

Playing outside with friends.

Playing inside with Burke and his male friends.

Playing at the White's home.

Coming home to a father, mother and brother....

WHO MOLESTED HER?
 
  • #258
Toltec said:
Patsy did not bother to bathe her daughter daily which most mothers do. Little girls do not properly wipe themselves.

Christmas day had Burke and JonBenet running in and out of the house. Surely Patsy could have taken time out to bathe her daughter. If not, then she should have taken JonBenet into the shower with her.

The wiping down of JonBenet was a result of molestation and soiled bottom. When this molestation occured has me scratching my head.

JonBenet had several opportunities to be violated...

Playing outside with friends.

Playing inside with Burke and his male friends.

Playing at the White's home.

Coming home to a father, mother and brother....

WHO MOLESTED HER?
..and was it the same person that killed her?
 
  • #259
Toltec said:
Patsy did not bother to bathe her daughter daily which most mothers do. Little girls do not properly wipe themselves.

Christmas day had Burke and JonBenet running in and out of the house. Surely Patsy could have taken time out to bathe her daughter. If not, then she should have taken JonBenet into the shower with her.

The wiping down of JonBenet was a result of molestation and soiled bottom. When this molestation occured has me scratching my head.

JonBenet had several opportunities to be violated...

Playing outside with friends.

Playing inside with Burke and his male friends.

Playing at the White's home.

Coming home to a father, mother and brother....

WHO MOLESTED HER?

Toltec,

Does your own theory and its accompanying evidence not offer a mode of molestation, with the opportunity arising sometime after JonBenet has snacked on the pineapple?


.
 
  • #260
UKGuy said:
Toltec,

Does your own theory and its accompanying evidence not offer a mode of molestation, with the opportunity arising sometime after JonBenet has snacked on the pineapple?


.

I don't have a theory on the molestation...but I can concede that it was either of the Ramseys.
 

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