The ransom note - Patsy or intruder? It's all in the detail.

[DeeDee249]

As far as the RN, having just re-read it from that link, it makes NO sense to have a SFF that does not repect the USA but respects a "bussiness it serves". I believe the beginning of the word "don't" was scratched out because to leave it in would point more directly to people Access Graphics did business with. And if it pointed to REAL organizations, REAL people can be investigated- and cleared. The RN had to be deliberately vague- it couldn't aim too closely at any REAL SFF. I think the Rs were trying to cover their asses in more ways than one. JR didn't want to be accused of implying any people his company really did business with.
To threaten a "beheading" just to make it seem like foreign terrorists is bizarre.
If it were real foreign terrorists- she WOULD have been beheaded. And a videotape of it sent to the head of the company. And the company would have been "big potatoes" like Lockheed, not "small potatoes" like JR company.

 

[JMO8778]

As far as the RN, having just re-read it from that link, it makes NO sense to have a SFF that does not repect the USA but respects a "bussiness it serves". I believe the beginning of the word "don't" was scratched out because to leave it in would point more directly to people Access Graphics did business with. And if it pointed to REAL organizations, REAL people can be investigated- and cleared. The RN had to be deliberately vague- it couldn't aim too closely at any REAL SFF. I think the Rs were trying to cover their asses in more ways than one. JR didn't want to be accused of implying any people his company really did business with.
To threaten a "beheading" just to make it seem like foreign terrorists is bizarre.
If it were real foreign terrorists- she WOULD have been beheaded. And a videotape of it sent to the head of the company. And the company would have been "big potatoes" like Lockheed, not "small potatoes" like JR company.

well said.

 

[JMO8778]

IMO there is a lot of denial going on that JBR suffered at the hands of her killer

yes,I think she suffered when Patsy manually strangled her and either hit her upon the head with an object,pushed her into something,or both.
Patsy had flashbacks of JB screaming..in her own words.and her descriptions of her own panic attacks involve feeling someone is strangling her and she is gasping for breath(projection)..yes,JB suffered at the hands of her killer,and Patsy knew it.

 

[sandraladeda]

How so? What do you think prevented him/them from getting her out of the house?


-Tea

Great question! They managed to get out of the house, had the physical capability of carrying a dead/unconscious 6 year old down to the basement in complete silence. They couldn't have handled carrying a dead/unconscious 6 year out as they departed? Huh?

Needed to buy time to get away? But wasted how much time, and the risk of a family member waking and discovering them, hanging around long enough to compose and print a 3 page note? :waitasec:

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

If the "kidnappers" were holding JBR IN THE HOUSE as the parents (supposedly) read the note just before 6am (according to PR herself)- and knowing the Rs called 911 right after AND the first officer (Officer French) arrived a few miniutes after that- by then it was light out- HOW did the "kidnappers get out of the house without being seen? If they had climbed out the window in the train room, there would have been footprints outside. There were none, and the spider web was undisturbed. The web was on TOP of the grate. Coming up from the basement to the outside (as opposed to climbing in that way) it would be impossible to see it, and so to avoid breaking it. (though I believe that would be impossible to avoid.) If they broke the web getting in- no spider in a Colorado December would remake it in time for LE to see it.
If the Rs got home around 10pm, and JBR had time to eat the pineapple 2 hours before she died (at around midnight) plus PR claims to have stayed up a while doing last minute things for the trip, AND JR admits to staying up a while with his son- that doesn't give the kidnappers much time to get her and then hold her.

I don't believe the kidnappers were in the house when PR called 911. They were gone already. I think the note was written and placed on the staircase as a diversion to buy time, for the perps to leave the area.

I also don't believe the kidnappers would use the grate or window for exit or entry. If it was international, do you think they're going to take a chance being spotted climbing thru a window? I doubt it. If they travelled all that way with this kind of plan, the front door was probably just walked thru at will.

Are you sure that the TOD is midnight? According to crimelibrary.com, it could've ranged right up to 6 AM.

BTW spiders can spin a very nice web in just a couple of pre-dawn hours.

 

[DeeDee249]

I don't believe the kidnappers were in the house when PR called 911. They were gone already. I think the note was written and placed on the staircase as a diversion to buy time, for the perps to leave the area.

I also don't believe the kidnappers would use the grate or window for exit or entry. If it was international, do you think they're going to take a chance being spotted climbing thru a window? I doubt it. If they travelled all that way with this kind of plan, the front door was probably just walked thru at will.

Are you sure that the TOD is midnight? According to crimelibrary.com, it could've ranged right up to 6 AM.

BTW spiders can spin a very nice web in just a couple of pre-dawn hours.

The spiders CAN, but in December in Colorado they WON'T. This is according to experts who were called in.
The TOD is around midnight- 1am because of the degree of rigor mortis the body had at the time it was found. She was in full rigor (that means all joints affected- jaw, eyelids, shoulders, elbows, hips, etc. ) which is how JR was able to carry her upstairs held away from him like a mannequin, stiff as a board, with arms raised up over her head without being supported by anything. PR called 911 around 6am. The death occured in "standard conditions"- the decedent had not been exercising strenuously, no fever, presumed normal body temp, and the body was indoors. So rigor peaks at about 12 hours- lasts another 12, and dissipates in the same order in which it formed over the next 12 hours for a total of 36 hours from primary flaccidity (complete relaxation of all muscles immediately after death) to secondary flaccidity (after rigor mortis has ended, the muscles relax because they are decomposing and the proteins actin and myosin in the muscle fibers are able to unlock)- by the autopsy Dec. 27th, it was about 24 hours after she was found at 1pm. The rigor was already passed off from her jaws (her mouth is open in some autopsy photos) and the coroner notes a milder degree in the arms and elbows- rigor forms in the smallest muscles first- eyelids, jaws - then the shoulders,elbows and arms then the largest muscle groups of the legs. This fixes the TOD about 12 hours before she was found at 1pm, which makes it no later than 1 am.
If the TOD was 6am, the killer would HAVE to be a parent- or the killers would have to leave the house while the parents were awake- calling police and reading the note and looking around the house.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

The spiders CAN, but in December in Colorado they WON'T. This is according to experts who were called in.
The TOD is around midnight- 1am because of the degree of rigor mortis the body had at the time it was found. She was in full rigor (that means all joints affected- jaw, eyelids, shoulders, elbows, hips, etc. ) which is how JR was able to carry her upstairs held away from him like a mannequin, stiff as a board, with arms raised up over her head without being supported by anything. PR called 911 around 6am. The death occured in "standard conditions"- the decedent had not been exercising strenuously, no fever, presumed normal body temp, and the body was indoors. So rigor peaks at about 12 hours- lasts another 12, and dissipates in the same order in which it formed over the next 12 hours for a total of 36 hours from primary flaccidity (complete relaxation of all muscles immediately after death) to secondary flaccidity (after rigor mortis has ended, the muscles relax because they are decomposing and the proteins actin and myosin in the muscle fibers are able to unlock)- by the autopsy Dec. 27th, it was about 24 hours after she was found at 1pm. The rigor was already passed off from her jaws (her mouth is open in some autopsy photos) and the coroner notes a milder degree in the arms and elbows- rigor forms in the smallest muscles first- eyelids, jaws - then the shoulders,elbows and arms then the largest muscle groups of the legs. This fixes the TOD about 12 hours before she was found at 1pm, which makes it no later than 1 am.
If the TOD was 6am, the killer would HAVE to be a parent- or the killers would have to leave the house while the parents were awake- calling police and reading the note and looking around the house.

Then there would probably be an hour of interaction between JBR and her assailants, presuming that interaction started after the R's went to sleep and stopped at TOD.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

According to spider expert Dr Opell, that was a web from the funnel web spider, a known hibernator, and it was 10 degrees F at 6 am, as noted by Sgt. Reichenbach as he headed toward the Ramsey house after hearing the call go out. There is no way that spider came out and repaired its web. There is no way anyone went in or out through that window - not even DA Hunter believed anyone had come or gone through that window.

An hour to interact with JonBenet while her family sleeps upstairs? That's either one risk-taking intruder or a very stupid and inexperienced one - why wouldn't he get in, grab the child, and get out, eliminating any risk or fear of being discovered by the residents of the house? He has all the time in the world to do whatever he wants once he's in a safe place, and if the killer planned to abduct JB and hold her for ransom, he had to have had a safe place set up before he even went in to get her.

And start in on the child as soon as the parents go to bed - now that's taking a risk. I might go to bed around 10, but I guarantee you I'm still awake for a bit after that, and I often come back downstairs to get a drink or use the loo, and I also check on my kids to see how they're sleeping. I'm actually paranoid of them strangling in their sleep so I do a sight-check to make sure there's nothing anywhere near their necks.

Patsy was right - of all nights to not get up at midnight and make the nightly potty run, that was the worst night to pick...or did she go into JB's room as usual, and there never was any intruder at all?

I think the fact that no terrorist group has ever taken credit for this is a clear indicator that the SFF bit was a cooked-up lie, meant to distract and confuse. They terrorize just so they *can* take credit for it. That's the whole point of terrorizing - make sure they know who you are so they can feel the terror you wreak. No SFF would care about some nobody businessman like JR, and if they did, enough to commit murder, they would target JR and not JR's little girl. The man was asleep upstairs - hardly a challenge for an SFF that can get in, feed a kid, bludgeon, assault, and strangle kid, and get out - all without leaving behind any forensic evidence of having been there. MOO.

 

[Callan]

Callan, have you ever heard of people dumbing themselves down so others don't suspect they have the ability to do something?


-Tea

Patsy Ramsey was specifically asked in a police interview, whether or not she was able to write left-handed. She indicated that she was, to an extent that was better than most people. Why did she just not say no? Even the most stupid of people would know that this was leading somewhere, so if she had murdered her daughter and had written the note left-handed, all she had to say was - NO!

How on earth is anyone going to prove otherwise? Yes, an old member of her school class said that she could, but so what? all she had to say was that she must have been mistaken, or that she was lying.

 

[Callan]

The only reason that I say..that I don't see what difference it makes....is because...too me, that doesn't prove a thing. I believe that Patsy wrote that RN...I think that she did it probably left handed...and that it was carefully worded and carefully thought out....and the i's carefully dotted. As I have said before...If I write something that I have to carefully think out, before I write it....my i's are dotted perfectly too, because I am in such deep thought about what to write...and if I am writing something important...I write more slowly....therefore, dotting my i's differently that I normally would. Even JOHN says that the handwriting in the RN is similar to Patsy's.

Carefully worded ... carefully thought out ... carefully dotted {i} s.


In other words - SLOWLY.

Please explain then, how it is that she had to cross out words, or had to insert them?

 

[BOESP]

Patsy Ramsey was specifically asked in a police interview, whether or not she was able to write left-handed. She indicated that she was, to an extent that was better than most people. Why did she just not say no? Even the most stupid of people would know that this was leading somewhere, so if she had murdered her daughter and had written the note left-handed, all she had to say was - NO!

How on earth is anyone going to prove otherwise? Yes, an old member of her school class said that she could, but so what? all she had to say was that she must have been mistaken, or that she was lying.

Callan, an intelligent, manipulative person is not apt to lie about something they know can be proved as a lie. They know better than to assume that risk. Patsy proved she was intelligent and manipulative long before JonBenet's death. It is as easy for an ambidextrous person to try and disguise their left-handed writing as it is to try and disguise their right-handed style. Patsy could not be eliminated as the writer of the note, based on statements from non-interested professional QDEs. It doesn't matter which hand she used or whether she used both.

 

[BOESP]

I give "She Bears The Cross" partial weight but I am more partial to "She Bears The Crown," a crown of victory [she] shall wear (it's an old southern gospel hymn and you may have heard of it).

Maybe it's someone's initials. Who knows. It may mean nothing but the word "Victory," in my experience, refers to a spiritual experience.

"Saved By The Cross," is another possibility. Generally, in most southern churches, children under the "age of accountability" would go straight to heaven being considered to be without sin. There are some branches that don't believe this way but most believe a six-year-old child is an innocent babe.

I'm not sure knowing what S.B.T.C meant is important except I can't see a foreign faction making Christian comments.

 

[Squishified]

"Saved By The Cross," is another possibility. Generally, in most southern churches, children under the "age of accountability" would go straight to heaven being considered to be without sin. There are some branches that don't believe this way but most believe a six-year-old child is an innocent babe.

I'm not sure knowing what S.B.T.C meant is important except I can't see a foreign faction making Christian comments.

This is a little off topic but here in South Carolina we have a bank called SCBT ( think it stands for SC Banking and Trust). I would never bank there--it's too close to SBTC for me!!

 

[BOESP]

Carefully worded ... carefully thought out ... carefully dotted {i} s.


In other words - SLOWLY.

Please explain then, how it is that she had to cross out words, or had to insert them?

Nervous, nearly crazy with despair, anxiety, panic, crying and couldn't see well, disassociated from her surroundings, for starters.

IMO, it wasn't carefully worded or carefully thought out. It was a rambling mumbo-jumbo.

 

[Callan]

Callan, an intelligent, manipulative person is not apt to lie about something they know can be proved as a lie. They know better than to assume that risk. Patsy proved she was intelligent and manipulative long before JonBenet's death. It is as easy for an ambidextrous person to try and disguise their left-handed writing as it is to try and disguise their right-handed style. Patsy could not be eliminated as the writer of the note, based on statements from non-interested professional QDEs. It doesn't matter which hand she used or whether she used both.

So you are saying that if she lied about not being able to write left-handed, the police or whoever, could prove that she was lying? What would they have done, tortured her, until she admitted it?

By the way, who has ever said that she was ambidextrous. You RDIs appear to change things around, when it suits you.

 

[Callan]

Nervous, nearly crazy with despair, anxiety, panic, crying and couldn't see well, disassociated from her surroundings, for starters.

IMO, it wasn't carefully worded or carefully thought out. It was a rambling mumbo-jumbo.

Well if she was in this state, why were virtually all the [i}s dotted correctly, but in writing samples [when calm and relaxed] they were all over the place? Remember, this included historic writing samples.

Also, it was not 'mumbo-jumbo' as such, the note contained quite a lot of stuff, that was used in various films. For example, a Star Trek film was going the rounds at that time, where not only is someone killed with a garrotte, but 'foreign faction' is refered to.

 

[Solace]

So you are saying that if she lied about not being able to write left-handed, the police or whoever, could prove that she was lying? What would they have done, tortured her, until she admitted it?

By the way, who has ever said that she was ambidextrous. You RDIs appear to change things around, when it suits you.

I believe Patsy says it in her interview. I don't have the book with me now.

 

[BOESP]

So you are saying that if she lied about not being able to write left-handed, the police or whoever, could prove that she was lying? What would they have done, tortured her, until she admitted it?

By the way, who has ever said that she was ambidextrous. You RDIs appear to change things around, when it suits you.

Dear Callan,

I never said she lied. I think it matters not which hand she wrote with. I do know that you said, verbatim, this:

"Patsy Ramsey was specifically asked in a police interview, whether or not she was able to write left-handed. She indicated that she was, to an extent that was better than most people. Why did she just not say no? Even the most stupid of people would know that this was leading somewhere, so if she had murdered her daughter and had written the note left-handed, all she had to say was - NO!

How on earth is anyone going to prove otherwise? Yes, an old member of her school class said that she could, but so what? all she had to say was that she must have been mistaken, or that she was lying."
​

It sounds like you are stating Patsy was ambidextrous and were using that as an argument to prove your idea. Have I misunderstood you?

I have no idea whether or not she was ambidextrous. Her housekeeper said she had seen her write with both hands. I do not know about the school mate you are referring to. It doesn't matter to me because expert QDEs could not eliminate her no matter which hand she used. That's what's important.

 

[BOESP]

Well if she was in this state, why were virtually all the [i}s dotted correctly, but in writing samples [when calm and relaxed] they were all over the place? Remember, this included historic writing samples.

Also, it was not 'mumbo-jumbo' as such, the note contained quite a lot of stuff, that was used in various films. For example, a Star Trek film was going the rounds at that time, where not only is someone killed with a garrotte, but 'foreign faction' is refered to.

Callan, expert QDEs could not eliminate Patsy as the author of the ransom note. It doesn't matter what you or I say. I've looked at the on-line versions and, frankly, I don't see what you are saying about the "i's" being dotted correctly or incorrectly. In addition, for all I know John was a Treky or else Burke was so John watched Star Trek movies with him -- maybe Patsy did too. Regardless, it doesn't matter what I think. It's the expert opinion that counts ... the opinions, particularly, of non-biased examiners and not someone working for the defense.

 

[Toltec]

As far as the RN, having just re-read it from that link, it makes NO sense to have a SFF that does not repect the USA but respects a "bussiness it serves". I believe the beginning of the word "don't" was scratched out because to leave it in would point more directly to people Access Graphics did business with. And if it pointed to REAL organizations, REAL people can be investigated- and cleared. The RN had to be deliberately vague- it couldn't aim too closely at any REAL SFF. I think the Rs were trying to cover their asses in more ways than one. JR didn't want to be accused of implying any people his company really did business with.
To threaten a "beheading" just to make it seem like foreign terrorists is bizarre.
If it were real foreign terrorists- she WOULD have been beheaded. And a videotape of it sent to the head of the company. And the company would have been "big potatoes" like Lockheed, not "small potatoes" like JR company.

Excellent post! I want to add that IF IF it were a foreign faction....they would have "kidnapped" the SON, Burke. It is well understood that in most foreign nations, the SON is the most important member of the family in that he carries the family name. The SON is the heir apparent.

John Ramsey read the RN with all the threats and such....yet he demands his wife to call 911 and also allows her to invite the Whites, Fernies and Father Rol.

The ransom note author and the two gentlemen are three individuals who represent a foreign faction....HUH?