The ransom note - Patsy or intruder? It's all in the detail.

[BOESP]

I know that it was something to do with items taken from the house under a warrant, but I will have to try and find it out again.

What type suit did Douglas supposedly bring against Thomas (if you meant Thomas)?

 

[Callan]

I believe the line from Dirty Harry is "If we catch you talking to a Pekinese pissing on a lamp post, she dies".

You were right. A cat was stated in something that I read. :hand:

 

[Callan]

What type suit did Douglas supposedly bring against Thomas (if you meant Thomas)?

I have spent a lot of the day trying to locate it, but with no luck. I have a feeling that it must have been in his book - The Cases That Haunt Us.

I have read this book, but I do not have a copy, I borrowed it from a library a few years ago.

This is what I remember. Steve Thomas claimed that the book 'Mindhunter' was found in the Ramsey home and that it contained a chapter on getting away with the perfect crime. John Douglas was apparently upset over this claim and checked the log of items removed from the house under a search warrant. No book of his was on the list.

I do not know what type of suit was brought.

 

[JMO8778]

Just b/c it wasn't removed by warrant doesn't mean it wasn't there.It could have simply been photographed,beside his bed or on his nightstand.

 

[Callan]

Just b/c it wasn't removed by warrant doesn't mean it wasn't there.It could have simply been photographed,beside his bed or on his nightstand.

So why not just photograph all the other objects that were physically removed?

 

[JMO8778]

it probably wasn't deemed important at the time,even the dictionary turned to the word 'incest' wasn't removed then either...but what you guys,Holdon and you are doing,is nothing but the same ole same ole...spin Dr...RST.
Perhaps Holdon would care to explain the fiber evidence,the pineapple,why 24 out of 26 exemplars match Patsy's handwriting,why JB's underwear was changed--and to a brand new size 12 at that,as well as why her size 6's went missing,why JR wanted his golf bag,why Patsy said "We didn't mean for this to happen",and that she had flashbacks of JB screaming,as well as "I was screaming and JR was screaming when he came up from the basement",and why JR said "I regret,I regret",and "I'm so sorry,I'm so sorry"....and why JR refused to get up and comfort Patsy when she was crying in a restaurant (well folks,that's an easy one...same reason he stayed distant from her that morning..)
and that's just for starters...

 

[JMO8778]

Many of us had seen these quite some time ago. I for one am blown away each time and for some it may be the first time they have seen these . Most particularly for IDI and fence sitters. The reason I believe that is after seeing the comparisons, HOW could a IDI remain an IDI and one would think it would be a great reason to come down off the fence. It is strange If God himself were to reveal who killed Jon Benet in the form of a burning bush I do believe the IDIs would scramble for their fire extinquishers. JMHO And in the words of Larry the Cable guy, Lord I am sorry for that one right there.

my opinion on that is that no one would have reason to do so unless,(bottom line)... he/she was one of the R's,one of their family or friends,or part of the RST.

 

[coloradokares]

it probably wasn't deemed important at the time,even the dictionary turned to the word 'incest' wasn't removed then either...but what you guys,Holdon and you are doing,is nothing but the same ole same ole...spin Dr...RST.
Perhaps Holdon would care to explain the fiber evidence,the pineapple,why 24 out of 26 exemplars match Patsy's handwriting,why JB's underwear was changed--and to a brand new size 12 at that,as well as why her size 6's went missing,why JR wanted his golf bag,why Patsy said "We didn't mean for this to happen",and that she had flashbacks of JB screaming,as well as "I was screaming and JR was screaming when he came up from the basement",and why JR said "I regret,I regret",and "I'm so sorry,I'm so sorry"....and why JR refused to get up and comfort Patsy when she was crying in a restaurant (well folks,that's an easy one...same reason he stayed distant from her that morning..)
and that's just for starters...

That or unlike some of us they just cannot admit to even themselves that they were wrong and this precious little girls murder really does not matter if it means that they were wrong, Most times Jon Benet is lost in the IDI/RDI battle. It simply is not forgiveable that the guilty was never held accountable. To me that says her life was worth less than the life of who took hers from her. That is so SICK! IMHO

 

[DeeDee249]

my opinion on that is that no one would have reason to do so unless,(bottom line)... he/she was one of the R's,one of their family or friends,or part of the RST.

And there you have it in a nutshell...

 

[BBB167893]

By the way, is anyone ever going to offer an explanation, in regard of the 'letter U' post?

You offer up reasons why certain parts of her handwriting point to her being the note writer, but on this matter - the silence is deafening.

Yeah, sure. I suppose it was just an accident that her's was the only writing that changed after the murder. But it's a little thing called "disguised writing." It's quite common, actually.

I was implying that if she wrote the note fast, it would be impossible for her to not write a certain individual letter [see the letter U posting] without reverting at some stage, to her natural style. The mistakes in the ransom note, indicate that it was written fast, because if it was written slowly, the writer would obviously pre-empt any errors.

Your premise is highly faulty. Writing slowly does NOT preclude mistakes. Happens to me all the time. That's why "White-Out" was invented.

But let me be more specific. Look at the word "Ramsey" at the top of the note. See how smooth it is? That's a dead give-away. I, for one, do not have to think about how to write my own name. More aptly, no matter how slowly it was written, if she'd just killed her daughter, how together would she be, anyhow?

Folks, I'm sure someone here could do exactly what Callan has done and point out the number of similarities in a counting style the way he has. Any volunteers?

Yes, that is true, but you are completely missing the point. If Patsy Ramsey was one of these 'lots of people' and that is why it is in the note, why did she not say 'bring' instead of 'taking or take' during the police interview?

Easy. Because the note talked about things in future tense. Her interviews were past and present tense.

This was a Steve Thomas lie. Douglas took legal action, when it was claimed that his book was found in the Ramsey home.

Then he must have taken action against Lawrence Schiller, too. Because it's in PMPT, as well.

And what chance of her not being charged, with all this 'experts' overwhelming evidence against her?

How much time you got, buddy?

The short answer can be provided by ADA Pete Hofstrom:

"So what if she wrote the note? It doesn't prove she killed her."

Sadly, from a legal standpoint, he's right. See, you have to decide, as a prosecutor, who did what, or no dice. It's called the "cross-fingerpointing" defense.

 

[DeeDee249]

If she wrote the note, maybe it doesn't prove she killed her- BUT it does prove she knew SOMETHING about what happened to her daughter that night. It DOES involve her in the crime. I thought someone could be charged as an accessory to a crime- except in Boulder, I guess.

I will never understand why prosecutors cannot bring charges when there is more than one suspect just because they don't know WHICH one did it. That means all anyone has to do to get away with murder is have someone else there, too. Does it matter WHICH one did it? Forget about Murder One and charge them BOTH with manslaughter.

 

[Callan]

Yeah, sure. I suppose it was just an accident that her's was the only writing that changed after the murder. But it's a little thing called "disguised writing." It's quite common, actually.

Go check the historic samples and point out changes. I take it you are a National Enquirer reader?


Your premise is highly faulty. Writing slowly does NOT preclude mistakes. Happens to me all the time. That's why "White-Out" was invented.


If you care to read carefully, I was stating that if she wrote fast, then her natural writing style would have been revealed at some stage. In other words the letter 'U' would have had a tail in some of the words.

But let me be more specific. Look at the word "Ramsey" at the top of the note. See how smooth it is? That's a dead give-away. I, for one, do not have to think about how to write my own name. More aptly, no matter how slowly it was written, if she'd just killed her daughter, how together would she be, anyhow?


I am unable to comment here, as I have no idea what your are talking about.

Folks, I'm sure someone here could do exactly what Callan has done and point out the number of similarities in a counting style the way he has. Any volunteers?


How about you do it?



Easy. Because the note talked about things in future tense. Her interviews were past and present tense.


Now you are just being silly.



Then he must have taken action against Lawrence Schiller, too. Because it's in PMPT, as well.


Maybe he did then{?}



How much time you got, buddy?

The short answer can be provided by ADA Pete Hofstrom:

"So what if she wrote the note? It doesn't prove she killed her."

Sadly, from a legal standpoint, he's right. See, you have to decide, as a prosecutor, who did what, or no dice. It's called the "cross-fingerpointing" defense.

If she wrote the note, she would still at least be charged as an accessory in her daughters death, due to the very fact that she wrote it. Fact!

 

[JMO8778]

Callan,that would have indeed been the case IF the R's had been middle class or lower.It falls in the same catagory as OJ,Robert Blake and Michael Jackson.

 

[Rino]

If she wrote the note, she would still at least be charged as an accessory in her daughters death, due to the very fact that she wrote it. Fact!

Nuh-uh. Sometimes money talks and guilty walks.

 

[Callan]

Callan,that would have indeed been the case IF the R's had been middle class or lower.It falls in the same catagory as OJ,Robert Blake and Michael Jackson.

The Simpson debacle was all down to playing the 'racism card'. That creep would not have been convicted, even if he had been caught on CCTV doing the murders.

I had no idea that Blake had been cleared, but you are not saying that this happened because of who he was are you? The last time that I saw him in anything, was in 1977. He was never really a big name, even then. I do not think that he was going to have a great effect on anyone{?}

As regards to Jackson, well what can you say about that case? - it was unreal. I know that he appeared to pay the kid off, but this family were dodgy in my opinion and that is probably why it did not go their way. My own opinion is that Jackson was probably guilty, but circumstances went his way.

With regards to JonBenet, are you actually saying that certain people would let the killers of an innocent little girl get away with it, just because they were thought to be of an higher class? :waitasec:

 

[Squishified]

Nuh-uh. Sometimes money talks and guilty walks.

Especially in Boulder, Colorado

 

[DeeDee249]

With regards to JonBenet, are you actually saying that certain people would let the killers of an innocent little girl get away with it, just because they were thought to be of an higher class? :waitasec:

Not necessarily "higher class" because I think the Rs were anything but classy. Money and class are not the same thing, nor are they always linked. But yes, I think that "certain people" were intimidated by the Rs wealth. Wealthy people can afford the most ruthless defense attorneys. That's how money lets you walk.
The DA seemed pressured by those same defense attorneys, whom he knew personally and and social/business relationships with. Club memberships, too. He should have stepped down from that case at the start, and and independent prosecutor appointed from the first!
That law firm also had the Governor as an ally. When the word came down to "treat the Rs as VICTIMS, not as suspects"- it was as good as being told "you better not even THINK about prosecuting these people".

 

[BBB167893]

Go check the historic samples and point out changes. I take it you are a National Enquirer reader?

I can point out one now: the "a" in the historicals is sometimes hooded, sometimes regular lowercase. After Dec. 26, 1996, it was NEVER hooded.

I can't remember the last time I read an NE, Callan. Perhaps you should check out the side-by-side comparisons to the "U." You will see that both the note and hers are shaped like horseshoes, even with the little flourish at the end. Page 43.

If you care to read carefully, I was stating that if she wrote fast, then her natural writing style would have been revealed at some stage. In other words the letter 'U' would have had a tail in some of the words.

I know what you said. I was saying that I don't think she DID write fast.

I am unable to comment here, as I have no idea what your are talking about.

Simple. I was saying that if this were someone else, they were clearly trying to make it look like her writing. But the word "Ramsey" is written smoothly. If I were forging something, I would probably be hesitant. "Hmm, how do I form the next letter?" But I, for one, don't need to think about how to sign my own name. Neither did this person.

How about you do it

I certainly will, sir. I simply don't have as much time as other people here.

Now you are just being silly.

What, for answering your question?

Maybe he did then{?}

I'm pretty sure you're misinformed, sir. I cannot find any instance of Mr. Douglas taking any legal action in this case.

If she wrote the note, she would still at least be charged as an accessory in her daughters death, due to the very fact that she wrote it. Fact!

I had a feeling you would say that. According to Henry Lee, CO law precludes the filing of lesser charges when a murder charge can be filed yet. They WANTED to do that. The Chief wanted to arrest them. The FBI told them to arrest them. So did the 3 "Dream Team" guys. So no, it's not a "fact!"

With regards to JonBenet, are you actually saying that certain people would let the killers of an innocent little girl get away with it, just because they were thought to be of an higher class?

Not let them go, Callan. But since you brought it up, I suppose it means nothing that the DA's office and the law firm of the Ramseys' were business partners?

But yes, I think that "certain people" were intimidated by the Rs wealth. Wealthy people can afford the most ruthless defense attorneys. That's how money lets you walk.
The DA seemed pressured by those same defense attorneys, whom he knew personally and and social/business relationships with. Club memberships, too. He should have stepped down from that case at the start, and and independent prosecutor appointed from the first!
That law firm also had the Governor as an ally. When the word came down to "treat the Rs as VICTIMS, not as suspects"- it was as good as being told "you better not even THINK about prosecuting these people".

Intimidated by the Simpson case, as well, I think.

I will never understand why prosecutors cannot bring charges when there is more than one suspect just because they don't know WHICH one did it.

I'll tell you why: because it means built-in reasonable doubt.

 

[JMO8778]

I had no idea that Blake had been cleared, but you are not saying that this happened because of who he was are you? The last time that I saw him in anything, was in 1977. He was never really a big name, even then. I do not think that he was going to have a great effect on anyone{?}

explain how he got away with it then,if not for good attorneys...(I didn't say he was that big).. his alibi was that he 'went back into the restaurant to retrieve his gun'.Meanwhile,his 'wife' gets shot with a gun! has there even been a lamer alibi???? and given his history w. this woman,it falls into the same catagory and Jackson and OJ...everybody knows he did it,and everybody knows he got away with it.

 

[Rino]

The Simpson debacle was all down to playing the 'racism card'. That creep would not have been convicted, even if he had been caught on CCTV doing the murders.

I had no idea that Blake had been cleared, but you are not saying that this happened because of who he was are you? The last time that I saw him in anything, was in 1977. He was never really a big name, even then. I do not think that he was going to have a great effect on anyone{?}

As regards to Jackson, well what can you say about that case? - it was unreal. I know that he appeared to pay the kid off, but this family were dodgy in my opinion and that is probably why it did not go their way. My own opinion is that Jackson was probably guilty, but circumstances went his way.

With regards to JonBenet, are you actually saying that certain people would let the killers of an innocent little girl get away with it, just because they were thought to be of an higher class? :waitasec:

Yes, yep, uh-huh, right, absolutely, every day, without a doubt, correct-a-mundo!

BTW money does not equal class.