The Remains Location -and the search

[Ghostwheel]

Sorry, I didn't mean for it to sound like I thought someone was saying it was a migrant worker. I just meant that if it was an encampment most of the time they are established (the people who live in them may change, but they've often been around for some time) and I can't see them just now seeing her remains or having seen them and just not saying anything and living with them.

I'm not sure it was an encampment. Is the road up above the high side of that hill (which would be out of view in that picture)? We've got a lot of areas along roads out here where people pull off the side of the road and toss things over the hill, just wondering if it's somewhere like that.

Yes, this road is up on a hill (I left some images in the images section so you can see what the terrain is like), but it is brushy. If the remains were not found in that cul-de-sac at the end of the road (and it doesn't look like they were), you would almost have to bushwhack in a bit, find a clearish spot, then bury. It's off a somewhat traveled road, though, so I don't think it's a standard dump spot for the average person, not the pull-over-and-pitch type of thing.

 

[Voice4theSilent]

Yes, this road is up on a hill (I left some images in the images section so you can see what the terrain is like), but it is brushy. If the remains were not found in that cul-de-sac at the end of the road (and it doesn't look like they were), you would almost have to bushwhack in a bit, find a clearish spot, then bury. It's off a somewhat traveled road, though, so I don't think it's a standard dump spot for the average person, not the pull-over-and-pitch type of thing.

So the area where Amber was found was not lower than another road where items could have been dumped from the side of the road down into the area?

 

[Ghostwheel]

So the area where Amber was found was not lower than another road where items could have been dumped from the side of the road down into the area?

I'm not sure I quite understand, so let me explain my way and see if it makes sense.

The cul-de-sac you see in the news is at the top of a hill. It is surrounded by heavy brush. The area where they are searching in the pictures I have seen are indeed lower than the cul-de-sac at the top. The brushiness of the area would make it difficult to throw large items and have them roll down hill. Cans, bottles, small trash could be tossed, possibly roll downhill, during rains most likely move. Paper trash would stick in the bushes. See Google maps link here to get an idea of how the terrain looks, although you cannot see the brushiness:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4903041&postcount=2"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4903041&postcount=2[/ame]

This one shows the Search area and you can see the brush. On the top left is a pretty steep hill.
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4903082&postcount=3"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4903082&postcount=3[/ame]

 

[sarx]

I think we're both asking the same thing, which is could someone have pulled over and taken her to the side of the hill and then rolled her down it (at least out of sight). We don't know if she was buried at all, or what critters did, so I'm just trying to figure out if there is any possible way of that or if someone had to carry her in somehow to get her out of sight. We have had bodies here turn up just 15 ft from the road.

 

[Voice4theSilent]

I think we're both asking the same thing, which is could someone have pulled over and taken her to the side of the hill and then rolled her down it (at least out of sight). We don't know if she was buried at all, or what critters did, so I'm just trying to figure out if there is any possible way of that or if someone had to carry her in somehow to get her out of sight. We have had bodies here turn up just 15 ft from the road.

Thank you! (I tried to clarify your question and I guess it sounded better in my head than it did in writing!)

 

[MrLucky917]

I think we're both asking the same thing, which is could someone have pulled over and taken her to the side of the hill and then rolled her down it (at least out of sight). We don't know if she was buried at all, or what critters did, so I'm just trying to figure out if there is any possible way of that or if someone had to carry her in somehow to get her out of sight. We have had bodies here turn up just 15 ft from the road.

From the photos I have seen it doesn't look like it was a random drop, the road that goes by there is pretty busy for a rural road. When I drove that road back in November there was plenty of traffic on it.

 

[sarx]

Oh, I don't think it was random at all, I think the person knew where the spot was. How busy is it at night or early in the morning though? It doesn't take long, I know we've been surprised more than once here when they've found body dumps in areas that are commute drives.

 

[MrLucky917]

Oh, I don't think it was random at all, I think the person knew where the spot was. How busy is it at night or early in the morning though? It doesn't take long, I know we've been surprised more than once here when they've found body dumps in areas that are commute drives.

Thats right, Danielle was found only 15 foot off the road that went to the Sycuan Casino in east county.

 

[Ghostwheel]

I think we're both asking the same thing, which is could someone have pulled over and taken her to the side of the hill and then rolled her down it (at least out of sight). We don't know if she was buried at all, or what critters did, so I'm just trying to figure out if there is any possible way of that or if someone had to carry her in somehow to get her out of sight. We have had bodies here turn up just 15 ft from the road.

Someone could have driven to the top of the hill and dropped the body, but the road is maybe four feet down from the top of the hill (you'd have to climb just a little bit, then drop). I don't think it would have rolled very far. The brush is too thick and high. You could have carried it into the brush 10 feet and it's doubtful anyone would find it unless they were looking, and if it were buried, you really wouldn't see it. My guess is whomever did it followed a rabbit trail and either dropped her under some dense brush, or found a space between bushes and buried her, rather than drop over the edge. And a drop on the north side could put her in the road if she rolled too far, no one with a brain would try it. A drop on the south side exposes you to Pala-Temecula Rd. Point being, she was probably placed, not tossed. This road is high enough from the travelled road (Arouba), that it's not likely anyone would have smelled anything odd. A smart person would have buried the remains so that animals would not take pieces and possible drag them to the road below, IMO

Does that help?

 

[SoCalSleuth]

Ooooooh. I don't actually own anything right now; New England is NOT the place for a car buff. I'm hoping that after we retire to someplace warmer, I'll have the money and space for something cool. Would love one of the new Chargers...

I meant that I didn't believe that JAG led them to Amber's remains. It just doesn't fit.

That's what I wrote, I did not believe that JAG told them--I would bet my sweet Chevy on that, lol!

 

[carbuff]

That's what I wrote, I did not believe that JAG told them--I would bet my sweet Chevy on that, lol!

Yep, exactly. I was *trying* to agree with you. Sometimes my fingers are in "open mouth, insert foot" mode, though...

 

[SoCalSleuth]

Yep, exactly. I was *trying* to agree with you. Sometimes my fingers are in "open mouth, insert foot" mode, though...

Ha! No foot in mouth, you were clear, I get it now, hadn't had enough coffee to get it in the morning!

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

That's what I wrote, I did not believe that JAG told them--I would bet my sweet Chevy on that, lol!

So I'm just curious then, if he didn't tell, then who did or did anyone? I'm leaning to that either HE told them OR they found computer/gps records that landed him there in that spot, as well as the spot at Kit Carson park. If he had any coordinates or data saved just simply by syncing to his computer, he'd be screwed.

 

[SoCalSleuth]

So I'm just curious then, if he didn't tell, then who did or did anyone? I'm leaning to that either HE told them OR they found computer/gps records that landed him there in that spot, as well as the spot at Kit Carson park. If he had any coordinates or data saved just simply by syncing to his computer, he'd be screwed.

It's anybody's guess at this point (although I am certain he did not tell them) and I think we are going to have to wait for the preliminary hearing to actually find out. They searched Kit Carson park because 3 girls had said they saw a bag with human hair in it there. However, I think you may be right about computer or gps records. You know they yanked his computer for analysis immediately. I wrote on another thread that perhaps he may have google mapped the location. This way he could keep revisiting the scene without being caught. Or, as you stated, maybe he had the coordinates in a gps. It seems more likely to me that somewhere there was evidence of the spot--I just can't see anyone sitting on this information for so long--especially with a $100,000 reward out there. I don't think anyone would be afraid of him after they told because he would be in jail.

 

[carbuff]

If that story is true about JAG being seen by a woman walking her dogs when he revisited King's grave, then it would make sense that he had stored information about revisiting other sites as well. Because I so totally don't believe that Amber is his only victim.

 

[sarx]

Has anyone come across any information as to whether Amber ever frequented Pala or her family did?

 

[Lipin One]

Has anyone come across any information as to whether Amber ever frequented Pala or her family did?

There's a person with the mother's lastname, who lives right across the street on Rancho Heights road. But, I can't give names, house number, or anything else... per moderator.

 

[Lipin One]

If that story is true about JAG being seen by a woman walking her dogs when he revisited King's grave, then it would make sense that he had stored information about revisiting other sites as well. Because I so totally don't believe that Amber is his only victim.

Didn't this lady meet JAG on Sunday, the day he was arrested?

 

[TravelingBug]

Didn't this lady meet JAG on Sunday, the day he was arrested?

Supposedly.

I would say without hestitation, and I did over in the Chelsea threads, I think that is VERY, VERY, VERY unlikely.

Thursday, maybe.

The north side on Sunday? Yes, very possible.

But from Friday on that specific area where Chelsea was found had a lot of searchers and LE round the clock. By Saturday and Sunday, it was restricted at all access points to only specific LE and searchers, and by Monday it was restricted to nearly only FBI and the highest of LE folks.

There is no way, both from what I saw watching that area being searched firsthand from the street above, and from what I saw and know of how restricted it was, and the way cops were blocking the trails, there is NO way that JAG OR that lady, ESPECIALLY with dogs, were down there on Sunday.

They had specifically even said NO dogs for those who were doing the volunteer searches, and that was because they did NOT want anything back there messing with what the trained dogs were doing search wise...and volunteers weren't even allowed back there by later Saturday. There's no way a civilian (especially not searching) was in that area, especially with dogs on Sunday.

Incidentally, I have photos taken OF THAT AREA where Chelsea was found on Sunday late morning/early afternoon, that was one of the times I was even sitting there at the end of the street watching because it was the area of the greatest focus of the search.

Even if someone had SNUCK down there (or two someones...plus dogs) there's no way they were that close. That area was teaming with LE and special searchers focusing on and combing right where she claims she ran into JAG.

 

[carbuff]

Didn't this lady meet JAG on Sunday, the day he was arrested?

I thought it was Thursday. Can't find the article I read it in, however, so probably another discounted rumor.