The Shoe Lace Bindings

[gheckso]

The bindings on all the victims were around equal length, give or take a few centimetres. I don't really get why you linked us to autopsy photos of Stevie with his face smashed up, etc.

That's not going to help with working out the shoe laces, and isn't really very respectful to the victims, in fact that's even more disrepectful than the opening scenes of the PL movies.

So glad I didn't click the link.

 

[LordYAM]

Would it have survived all that though? Really? Would it have survived the laces being tied constantly again and again? these are active 8 year old boys constantly retying. and untying. It's not plausible. Not impossible, but I wouldn't bet on it. Why are you so desperate to defend an abusive husband who beat and sexually abused his children, and why are you so obstinate to refuse any possible suspects

 

[Cappuccino]

Why do you keep linking to that disgusting site with autopsy photos of the victims? I've seen the length of all three sets of ligatures, (in photographs that were respectfully snipped), and that site is telling me nothing new.

What are you trying to do, horrify everyone reading so that they put their critical faculties aside and turn on the nearest available suspect?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Would it have survived all that though? Really?

Find some really old shoes (or even better sneakers) and have a look .. see if you can see any hairs in there, sometimes they get really embedded ..

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Why do you keep linking to that disgusting site with autopsy photos of the victims? I've seen the length of all three sets of ligatures, (in photographs that were respectfully snipped), and that site is telling me nothing new.

What are you trying to do, horrify everyone reading so that they put their critical faculties aside and turn on the nearest available suspect?

No, of course not.

 

[LordYAM]

maybe but it's not very likely, and given that they were found IN THE KNOTS OF THE ROPES USED TO BIND THEM RATHER THAN THE LACES ITSELF I'm skeptical.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

But, they were bound with laces .. the laces were used to bind them.

 

[Cappuccino]

And which boy's laces were used to bind who?

See if you can answer without repeated links to disgusting photographs or off topic posts about the knife.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I'm still trying to work that out, perhaps the shoelaces which were used to tie Christopher were from an older persons shoe or even a boot. Michael seems to be the only one who wore white shoes and was tied with white laces, so they may have simply been his. Christopher and Stevie were tied with mixed coloured laces, so it seems they were tied with their own laces mixed between the two of them.

However, without the length of the ligatures, as well as the length of shoelaces which came with each of the manufactured shoes the boys wore it's hard to be certain.

There is nothing to compare.

 

[Cappuccino]

NO.

Michael wore white shoe laces and was tied with black shoe laces, which may or may not have been one long lace cut in half. Christopher and Stevie were tied with one white and one black lace each. One of Christopher's shoes had a shoe lace left intact. Christopher's sneakers, (and therefore laces), were brand new. And Stevie wore high top sneakers.

That's the shoe lace conundrum. One of those laces had a hair in it consistent with one of the victim's step fathers. I'm sure you can see how important it is to work out where that particular shoe lace came from.

 

[kyleb]

Would it have survived the laces being tied constantly again and again?

There are six hairs recovered from the laces, and none of them were necessarily on the laces when the boys went into the woods. They could've been elsewhere on the boys, or picked up by the boys in the woods, either from their attackers or otherwise.

However, without the length of the ligatures, as well as the length of shoelaces which came with each of the manufactured shoes the boys wore it's hard to be certain.

Even the length of the laces used by the manufacturer can't be relied upon, as any or all of the laces which came with the shoes could've been replaced prior to the murders.

 

[Cappuccino]

Even the length of the laces used by the manufacturer can't be relied upon, as any or all of the laces which came with the shoes could've been replaced prior to the murders.

Apart from the lace left in Christopher's left sneaker. That was there before, during and after the murders. So which lace does it match?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

NO.

Michael wore white shoe laces and was tied with black shoe laces, which may or may not have been one long lace cut in half. Christopher and Stevie were tied with one white and one black lace each. One of Christopher's shoes had a shoe lace left intact. Christopher's sneakers, (and therefore laces), were brand new. And Stevie wore high top sneakers.

That's the shoe lace conundrum. One of those laces had a hair in it consistent with one of the victim's step fathers. I'm sure you can see how important it is to work out where that particular shoe lace came from.

Oh ok .. I used this link to try and make sense of which shoe went with which coloured laces: http://www.jivepuppi.com/laces_and_bindings.html

Since all of the boys had at least one black shoelace tying them then any of them could have been tied with a shoelace from Stevie Branch .. how is it that it is not known if the shoelaces tying MM were cut in half or not, surely that would be able to be worked out by their length and whether or not there was a matching cut for them?

This throws a real spanner in the works for people so sure that the hair which may or may not belong to TH matches the one found in the ligature for MM since that shoelace may have come from his own house via Stevie's shoelace and even actually be his to me.

I'm also amazed this wasn't all worked out at the time by LE. Seems rather important.

 

[Cappuccino]

I'm also amazed this wasn't all worked out at the time by LE. Seems rather important to me.

Yes, you and everyone else with an ounce of common sense.

 

[kyleb]

I'm also amazed this wasn't all worked out at the time by LE.

Perhaps it was. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Perhaps it was. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Yes, that is true, but there is certainly no certainty about who's shoelace was used on which victim, that's for sure. Not that we know of anyway.

 

[Cappuccino]

Perhaps it was. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

You don't live in North Korea, Kyle. There is an obligation to disclose all evidence to the defense, in any democracy. So if it was worked out by LE at the time, why was it never disclosed by either side?

Sometimes absence of evidence is indeed evidence of absence.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I thought they did have to disclose everything to the defense .. I'm getting that from the Casey Anthony case though, maybe Florida's laws differ there?

 

[gheckso]

I believe from seeing the snipped photographs that you can still make out who had the aiglets intact which may help narrow things down, I don't believe a definitive account of the laces exists from what I've seen.

 

[Cappuccino]

I thought they did have to disclose everything to the defense .. I'm getting that from the Casey Anthony case though, maybe Florida's laws differ there?

Huh?

Every country that doesn't shoot people for not saluting the Dear Leader is obligated to disclose the evidence to the defense. Including Florida, (unless there's something about Florida I don't know).