The SODDI Defense (Some Other Dude Did It)...If not KC, who?

[songline]

ALL I know and I sure do not know it all IS:

Either Casey must talk and she wont.
OR
Another piece of evidence will have to show up
OR
Someone will snitch at the end.

Other wise Casey bye, bye; done, fried, finished.

 

[seagull65]

Or faced with Caylee's disappearance did she experience a breakdown and retreat into her fantasy world? Is she still there? She seems to still have that very bizarre "blank" when it comes to Caylee. I was struck by her face during one of the hearings when the forensics gentlemen was talking about the collection of insect and plant evidence from the remains, hairs, etc. Casey suddenly abandoned her weird compulsive behaviors, the hand picking and the little repeated rituals she does with her fingers you know where she strokes each fingernail with her thumb going through each one methodically then repeating over and over....she stopped and froze during this man's testimony, staring at him with very wide open, shocked eyes, a very strange expression, like she was trying to compute what he was saying, trying to take it in, but could still not take it in. It was really weird.

 

[songline]

Thinking of "maybe's" is fine, but they are not "theories" unless based on, and consistent with known facts. They may, or may not, be hypotheses worth following up, but are not theories.
For instance:
1. There is no evidence found of an accident. KC has never even claimed an accident. Certainly to ante mortem damage to the skeletal remains tends to rule out major physical trauma, car accidental running over etc.

2. There is no evidence of drug trafficking. Perhaps some testimony could show minor use, but nothing beyond that

3. No evidence of sex work, beyond a very enthusiastic and prolific amateur.
I have not even seen any testimony suggesting she was particularly good at it?

A clean up is a clean up, and they do not want us to know so they includes a
finger print wash up along with the clean up.
We have to look beyond the surface and that is what I believe in.
An investigation is never 1+2=3 slam dunk.

Not even in the movies is it served to us on a platter. They Dig and Dig .

It is the New OJ case - 2 years ago we also had an OJ case
called Anna Nicole Smith and it is still going on.
I never subscribe to 1+1=2 Unless I am counting money. :blowkiss:

 

[songline]

Or faced with Caylee's disappearance did she experience a breakdown and retreat into her fantasy world? Is she still there? She seems to still have that very bizarre "blank" when it comes to Caylee. I was struck by her face during one of the hearings when the forensics gentlemen was talking about the collection of insect and plant evidence from the remains, hairs, etc. Casey suddenly abandoned her weird compulsive behaviors, the hand picking and the little repeated rituals she does with her fingers you know where she strokes each fingernail with her thumb going through each one methodically then repeating over and over....she stopped and froze during this man's testimony, staring at him with very wide open, shocked eyes, a very strange expression, like she was trying to compute what he was saying, trying to take it in, but could still not take it in. It was really weird.

I can not imagine listening to a talk of insects, bugs, and Caylee would be a conversation eeven a stranger can handle. I can not. I passed on that completely.

I imagine that would be hard to take in, understand, compute.
I imagine the body goes frozen, I imagine that she was in shock....

 

[songline]

In my area, a woman just got a big fat prison sentence for leaving her baby with her boyfriend, who then killed the baby. Just saying.

That is strange, I had left my daughter with my boyfrind several times when she was a kid
Ofcourse he was a good guy.

But if he was her Foyfrind she probably did not think he was a bad guy

 

[Rumpole]

A clean up is a clean up, and they do not want us to know so they includes a
finger print wash up along with the clean up.
We have to look beyond the surface and that is what I believe in.
An investigation is never 1+2=3 slam dunk.

Not even in the movies is it served to us on a platter. They Dig and Dig .

It is the New OJ case - 2 years ago we also had an OJ case
called Anna Nicole Smith and it is still going on.
I never subscribe to 1+1=2 Unless I am counting money. :blowkiss:

No idea how "finger print wash" got in there?

I just pointed out there is no evidence at all of KC drug trafficking, whoring and no indication anywhere of an accident?

A theory needs to have some evidence to suggest it and not be at odds with known evidence.

 

[seagull65]

We don't know what all the evidence is yet and neither does JB :jester:

Really we and he need to see that evidence before we can explain/refute it. I am hoping the tape, heart sticker, fibres, laundry bag, garbage bags etc all tie in to Anthony home and/or KC. Heaven knows how the defence will explain that?

We do definitely need to see all the evidence they have, and I hope it's enough, you know? I'm sure there's a lot we haven't seen.
Regarding the items mentioned here, of course Caylee's items will tie in with the Anthony home and Casey, fiberwise and otherwise. But all of these items could have been in the car, traveling with Casey and Caylee, others could potentially have accessed them.
Also, people other than Casey were in the A home at different times, with and without Casey. If Casey were on the computer or phone, even a stranger could potentially have entered the home and obtained any of these items, along with Caylee.
Or Casey could have become involved in the disposal of the body and coverup after a paramour committed the crime (or could even have been left with the body without knowing for sure who did it.) As others have said, obviously if she won't tell, or is unable to tell for whatever reason, I imagine she'll probably be convicted of the murder.
The fact that the tape was left on the face makes me think Casey might not even have been involved in the disposal, though, because I think she would remove the tape (unless the body was already too decomposed when she found it to remove it.)

 

[AZRiverRat]

I wondered why KC would go to that park with her child when she surely musta heard about the rapes on the local news.

Cindy was worried and had warned Casey not to go to that park because of all the crimes happening there.

 

[songline]

No idea how "finger print wash" got in there?

I just pointed out there is no evidence at all of KC drug trafficking, whoring and no indication anywhere of an accident?

A theory needs to have some evidence to suggest it and not be at odds with known evidence.

BUT my point was a clean up is a clean up.
There have been many talks on these subjects in other places. Believe me I am not that imaginative.
I am intuative: I still say follow the money.
It is very obvious and LE knows that evidence has been tampered with.
I hope you /we will get more evidence.

 

[songline]

We do definitely need to see all the evidence they have, and I hope it's enough, you know? I'm sure there's a lot we haven't seen.
Regarding the items mentioned here, of course Caylee's items will tie in with the Anthony home and Casey, fiberwise and otherwise. But all of these items could have been in the car, traveling with Casey and Caylee, others could potentially have accessed them.
Also, people other than Casey were in the A home at different times, with and without Casey. If Casey were on the computer or phone, even a stranger could potentially have entered the home and obtained any of these items, along with Caylee.
Or Casey could have become involved in the disposal of the body and coverup after a paramour committed the crime (or could even have been left with the body without knowing for sure who did it.) As others have said, obviously if she won't tell, or is unable to tell for whatever reason, I imagine she'll probably be convicted of the murder.
The fact that the tape was left on the face makes me think Casey might not even have been involved in the disposal, though, because I think she would remove the tape (unless the body was already too decomposed when she found it to remove it.)

:clap::clap::clap: Good post!

 

[Ripley007]

Cindy was worried and had warned Casey not to go to that park because of all the crimes happening there.

BAD JBPark BAD! All the more reason for KC to change her (evening of) July 15th story from leaving Caylee on the steps below ZG's Sawgrass Apt. to ZG assulting/abducting Caylee from JBPark on JUNE 9th. (A killer was on loose that day and all...) (give me a break...)

 

[Rumpole]

BUT my point was a clean up is a clean up.
There have been many talks on these subjects in other places. Believe me I am not that imaginative.
I am intuative: I still say follow the money.
It is very obvious and LE knows that evidence has been tampered with.
I hope you /we will get more evidence.

In the context of SODDI then, a clean up would have to be to tamper with evidence that shows somebody else did it?

 

[songline]

In the context of SODDI then, a clean up would have to be to tamper with evidence that shows somebody else did it?

IF she is wrapped up with shady folks whom she fears.
And has to admit to anything regarding drugs or sex or selling caylees body? That alone puts her in Jail and as we can see: suddenly The "A"s are wrapped up with funky people and foundations, and have not worked in a year.... ... hmmmmm YAP I can see GA do a clean up.

 

[Rumpole]

IF she is wrapped up with shady folks whom she fears.
And has to admit to anything regarding drugs or sex or selling cayles body? That alone puts her in Jail and as we can see: suddenly The "A"s are wrapped up with funky people and foundations, and have not worked in a year.... ... hmmmmm YAP I can see GA do a clean up.

Yes but that's a fantasy not a theory?

As I pointed out from the outset there is nothing to base the initial premise of drugs/sex etc on, so extending the story based on nothing, based on further non evidence gets us nowhere.

 

[blubuni99]

This man clearly could be a viable suspect depending upon his whereabouts at the time of Caylee's disappearance:

1. Duct tape on the mouth and arms and legs of a 4 year old.
2. Getting the child's shorts out, placing a pair of women's shoes next to the child.
3. Makeshift bed for the child in the garage - would love to know exactly what that consisted of! Could it have been a fabric handled laundry hamper and child's blanket?
4. Lives 3 miles from the Anthony home.
5. Annie Downing, in her deposition, said that Casey was afraid of being close to her bedroom window and didn't want Annie to be close to the window either on the sleepover when Casey was out on bail. This perp is known for peeping in windows.
6. Great deal of police interest in Casey's shoes following discovery of Caylee's body. Were a pair of women's shoes with Caylee? This perp has an interest in small female children and women's shoes.
7. Casey told her friends that someone was tampering with her car. She kept running out of gas - thought the gas gauge might be broken - might someone have been siphoning her gas to control her or put her into rescue type situations? She had two flat tires in one night in May - no clear explanation. Then her daughter disappears in June. Could this be used as evidence of stalking?
8. This guy had access to his victim's house - a great deal of access, apparently and collected up specific items for his sick fantasy.
9. Pedophiles have been known to use chloroform to subdue their victims.

And if you think about it, Tim Miller told everyone where Caylee would be found in a parental murder on national TV - within a few miles of home. If a pedophile did take Caylee, I'm sure he'd be watching the TV coverage to stroke his ego on what he had done and it would only make sense to dispose of the child's body in a way that would implicate the mother since she is the suspect AND he knows the area. If this guy was in Orlando and can't exactly account for his whereabouts in the time period Caylee disappeared I could see how the defense could use this perp to create reasonable doubt.

Honestly, as little sense as Casey and her family have made during this whole thing, if I were police, I would check this guy out in great detail regarding Caylee so that he could be ruled out as a viable suspect and not used by defense to create reasonable doubt. And if he can't be ruled out...well then, that's a whole other story.

Although the evidence we have seen so far really makes Casey look guilty, I keep reminding myself that there is a reason for that and that is because it is the prosecution's case and therefore, it is specifically aimed at pointing towards Casey's guilt. Any evidence that would point away from Casey's guilt would be discarded by the prosecution as a matter of constructing as strong a case against her as possible. I also recognize that the case is entirely circumstantial at this point. There is still no direct evidence. I do believe in innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. As tough as it is to remain neutral and impartial about this very emotional case, I am doing so.

All I'm gonna say is that this 'theory' is a good one. Can the defense use all of that info during trial? (like saying she was stalked or something bc of the tires, ect??) Heck, reading all of that I have doubt now (about KC's complete guilt). The best thing the prosecutor could do is find out where this man was to rule him out because if I was on that jury, I'd have doubt if they used this man as 'SOD'... I'm just saying.

 

[mysteriew]

This man clearly could be a viable suspect depending upon his whereabouts at the time of Caylee's disappearance:

1. Duct tape on the mouth and arms and legs of a 4 year old.
2. Getting the child's shorts out, placing a pair of women's shoes next to the child.
3. Makeshift bed for the child in the garage - would love to know exactly what that consisted of! Could it have been a fabric handled laundry hamper and child's blanket?
4. Lives 3 miles from the Anthony home.
5. Annie Downing, in her deposition, said that Casey was afraid of being close to her bedroom window and didn't want Annie to be close to the window either on the sleepover when Casey was out on bail. This perp is known for peeping in windows.
6. Great deal of police interest in Casey's shoes following discovery of Caylee's body. Were a pair of women's shoes with Caylee? This perp has an interest in small female children and women's shoes.
7. Casey told her friends that someone was tampering with her car. She kept running out of gas - thought the gas gauge might be broken - might someone have been siphoning her gas to control her or put her into rescue type situations? She had two flat tires in one night in May - no clear explanation. Then her daughter disappears in June. Could this be used as evidence of stalking?
8. This guy had access to his victim's house - a great deal of access, apparently and collected up specific items for his sick fantasy.
9. Pedophiles have been known to use chloroform to subdue their victims.

And if you think about it, Tim Miller told everyone where Caylee would be found in a parental murder on national TV - within a few miles of home. If a pedophile did take Caylee, I'm sure he'd be watching the TV coverage to stroke his ego on what he had done and it would only make sense to dispose of the child's body in a way that would implicate the mother since she is the suspect AND he knows the area. If this guy was in Orlando and can't exactly account for his whereabouts in the time period Caylee disappeared I could see how the defense could use this perp to create reasonable doubt.

Honestly, as little sense as Casey and her family have made during this whole thing, if I were police, I would check this guy out in great detail regarding Caylee so that he could be ruled out as a viable suspect and not used by defense to create reasonable doubt. And if he can't be ruled out...well then, that's a whole other story.

Although the evidence we have seen so far really makes Casey look guilty, I keep reminding myself that there is a reason for that and that is because it is the prosecution's case and therefore, it is specifically aimed at pointing towards Casey's guilt. Any evidence that would point away from Casey's guilt would be discarded by the prosecution as a matter of constructing as strong a case against her as possible. I also recognize that the case is entirely circumstantial at this point. There is still no direct evidence. I do believe in innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. As tough as it is to remain neutral and impartial about this very emotional case, I am doing so.

Every time I consider a theory like SODDI I keep coming back to KC. When she found Caylee missing, if she had nothing to do with her child becoming a missing child why wouldn't she call 911? Esp. if she had been stalked previously.

Another question I would have is if SODDI then why would KC make up the Nanny, the two stories about Sawgrass and the park? Esp. if she had a sense of it being someone else? And why wouldn't she have a better, more complete story of how Caylee came to be missing? IOW if SODDI why has she consistently protected them?

Looking at KC's personality traits, KC appears to get frustrated easily and to anger easily. When angry she doesn't seem to remember what would be best for herself, let alone what might be best for someone else. So if her child came up missing, I can't see KC sitting down and thinking "well if I tell someone, then the unsub might get angry and retaliate." And even if she did think that, then when Caylee was found dead would have been a prime time to tell LE the truth, because the alleged perp didn't have any more leverage to harm.

The closest I am come to SODDI is if KC's boyfriend harmed Caylee and she was trying to protect him. But if that was so I would think that story would break down when she got charged with murder herself, and he broke off contact with her. I mean her daughter is dead, she is charged with murder and looking at the death penalty, and he isn't dancing attendance??? Sorry but I don't believe she is that altrustic.

 

[hornswoggled]

Sticking point in any SODDI theory put forth.....that annoying 31 days.

 

[MissJames]

Last night on NG they did that show focusing on KC's boyfriends.My hinky meter started going off a bit with JG.I have to say I have never suspected him of any involvement,but listening to some of what he said just gave me the heebie geebies.
He kept saying he couldn't reconcile the KC in jail with the KC he knew.He would never come out and say he felt she had killed,or even hurt ,Caylee.He talked about Caylee loving the playhouse and that would be THE place KC would put Caylee's body if something had happened to her.He thought that if she was in a panic after an accident the playhouse would be where KC would place her body.Who would even think to say that?
He also said he could see KC being so upset if Caylee died in an accident ,that she would make up a story in her head and go on as though everything was okay [paraphrasing]
He sort of kept on the accident idea[at least NG kept attributing that idea to JG].
IIRC he told LE he talked to KC and heard Caylee in the background well after it's believed Caylee died.
And then there's KC telling her parents to stay away from JG. Maybe because she thought he'd break under pressure?
Could JG have helped KC? and is trying to help her wiggle out of this?
Deep down I don't want to believe it.Maybe KC convinced him there was an accident and convinced him to help her.IDK but I have new questions after hearing all his statements together in one place.
The last thing I want to do is tarnish someones good name. I have a lot of respect for Jesse and his family.He really stepped up as Caylee's dad when he didn't have to. It's some of his statements that now make me wonder.Please convince me I'm way off base with my concerns!

 

[mysteriew]

Good thinking MissJames. But we have to remember that what we know or think we know is an evolving thing.

JG went from KC was his girlfriend and Caylee was his child. To Caylee wasn't his child, and KC lied to him.... but she still wasn't a totally bad person. To Caylee is missing and what KC was saying didn't make sense. When JG talks, I get the sense that he still cared about her and didn't want to believe the worst of her. But as time went by, more info came out including the news that Caylee was found dead, I think he still doesn't want to believe that someone he was so intimate with could be a person who might kill her own child. But he is starting to face the facts. Time and new info could account for any changes in his outlook.

 

[MAMABEAR]

Last night on NG they did that show focusing on KC's boyfriends.My hinky meter started going off a bit with JG.I have to say I have never suspected him of any involvement,but listening to some of what he said just gave me the heebie geebies.
He kept saying he couldn't reconcile the KC in jail with the KC he knew.He would never come out and say he felt she had killed,or even hurt ,Caylee.He talked about Caylee loving the playhouse and that would be THE place KC would put Caylee's body if something had happened to her.He thought that if she was in a panic after an accident the playhouse would be where KC would place her body.Who would even think to say that?
He also said he could see KC being so upset if Caylee died in an accident ,that she would make up a story in her head and go on as though everything was okay [paraphrasing]
He sort of kept on the accident idea[at least NG kept attributing that idea to JG].
IIRC he told LE he talked to KC and heard Caylee in the background well after it's believed Caylee died.
And then there's KC telling her parents to stay away from JG. Maybe because she thought he'd break under pressure?
Could JG have helped KC? and is trying to help her wiggle out of this?
Deep down I don't want to believe it.Maybe KC convinced him there was an accident and convinced him to help her.IDK but I have new questions after hearing all his statements together in one place.
The last thing I want to do is tarnish someones good name. I have a lot of respect for Jesse and his family.He really stepped up as Caylee's dad when he didn't have to. It's some of his statements that now make me wonder.Please convince me I'm way off base with my concerns!

No worries---relax---I watched NG last night also. That video you are talking about wasn't to long after KC went to jail. He watched her in the jailhouse tape and the poor guy was probably still in shock. He was still having a hard time putting the idea of her killing Caylee into his brain. He was just another stepping stone KC used to walk her pathway of destruction. :blowkiss: