The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #6

[Missouri Mule]

I said I was going to leave for a while as I have exhausted any usefulness at this point but let me say this. On another site it brought up the subject of human trafficking. I've been kicking this around for a while and will just throw it out for discussion. I have no evidence of this but the thought has crossed my mind. Make of it what you will.

 

[Auramyst]

I said I was going to leave for a while as I have exhausted any usefulness at this point but let me say this. On another site it brought up the subject of human trafficking. I've been kicking this around for a while and will just throw it out for discussion. I have no evidence of this but the thought has crossed my mind. Make of it what you will.

I don't believe anyone has "exhausted any usefulness". There are several 'long termers' (you included) who have investigated this case way before this forum even existed.

There are those of us who have not had the fortune to read the original news articles (N-L does not have them on-line) and we aren't privy to the ins and outs of Springfield and some of the 'players' in the investigation.

We depend on everyone (long term researchers and 'newbies') to add to the wealth of information that has been accumulated in this forum through discussion and research.

This is a frustrating case. It's very easy to get emotionally involved. It's very easy to get 'burned out' due to lack of new information.

This forum can be a haven for those of us, who, although we come from all walks of life, we share the common dream of seeing this case solved. Maybe our little steps of untangling this mess helps everyone achieve a little of this dream. Maybe it just helps us to feel a little connected to like-minded folks who share the same dream of bringing these ladies home.

Either way, to participate or not is a personal decision. Thank you for having participated. Everything, big and small, makes a difference.

 

[wfgodot]

I said I was going to leave for a while as I have exhausted any usefulness at this point but let me say this. On another site it brought up the subject of human trafficking. I've been kicking this around for a while and will just throw it out for discussion. I have no evidence of this but the thought has crossed my mind. Make of it what you will.

One I've always resisted, MM, not quite sure why - unlikelihood I guess. Nevertheless, as Hamlet scolded Horatio, "There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Most anything could be.

Such a mystery, this.

 

[Hurricane]

I said I was going to leave for a while as I have exhausted any usefulness at this point but let me say this. On another site it brought up the subject of human trafficking. I've been kicking this around for a while and will just throw it out for discussion. I have no evidence of this but the thought has crossed my mind. Make of it what you will.

Get out your tin foil hat! The book "Trance: Formation of America" that is being referred to on the other forum was written by Cathy O'Brien and Mark Phillips. They make a pretty good living from their books and speaking engagements. In all her books O'Brien claims to have been abducted into and a victim since childhood of the CIA's MK-Ultra Mind Control studies program. I'm not saying there couldn't be something to her claims but most "students" of the program were the young children of military families and scientists. Phillips claims to have been abducted into MK-Ultra's Super Soldier program, I believe. What would the CIA & MK-Ultra want with the 3MW? I've read the book; fascinating to be sure, but hardly pertains to the 3MW case.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Get out your tin foil hat! The book "Trance: Formation of America" that is being referred to on the other forum was written by Cathy O'Brien and Mark Phillips. They make a pretty good living from their books and speaking engagements. In all her books O'Brien claims to have been abducted into and a victim since childhood of the CIA's MK-Ultra Mind Control studies program. I'm not saying there couldn't be something to her claims but most "students" of the program were the young children of military families and scientists. Phillips claims to have been abducted into MK-Ultra's Super Soldier program, I believe. What would the CIA & MK-Ultra want with the 3MW? I've read the book; fascinating to be sure, but hardly pertains to the 3MW case.

I never said it was a fact. I just threw it out for discussion. You have indicated that you might know the name of the "mystery man" but wouldn't say and I agree that would be unwise. Having said that it does not preclude that someone lured the women into a trap where they were taken to destinations unknown.

Just to be clear, I do not know what happened. I've never seen any police records but only have what others have told me privately and on open forums to go on. And we have the words of the prosecutor himself a few years ago stating that even he didn't know and wanted the alleged men at George's located and interviewed. Of course that may have all been a smokescreen but who knows?

I'm not willing to go on record as stating that I know the police have solved this crime. I don't. No one in an official capacity has ever approached me and said it was solved and needed only the evidence to bring justice to the case. In the absence of such authoritative information I, along with so many others, are left to speculation. So I am merely speculating. And I never said that I believed this was a likely scenario either. I don't really, but I won't rule it out until I see the case actually going to trial where the facts are laid out for all the see.

 

[Auramyst]

I never said it was a fact. I just threw it out for discussion. You have indicated that you might know the name of the "mystery man" but wouldn't say and I agree that would be unwise. Having said that it does not preclude that someone lured the women into a trap where they were taken to destinations unknown.

Just to be clear, I do not know what happened. I've never seen any police records but only have what others have told me privately and on open forums to go on. And we have the words of the prosecutor himself a few years ago stating that even he didn't know and wanted the alleged men at George's located and interviewed. Of course that may have all been a smokescreen but who knows?

I'm not willing to go on record as stating that I know the police have solved this crime. I don't. No one in an official capacity has ever approached me and said it was solved and needed only the evidence to bring justice to the case. In the absence of such authoritative information I, along with so many others, are left to speculation. So I am merely speculating. And I never said that I believed this was a likely scenario either. I don't really, but I won't rule it out until I see the case actually going to trial where the facts are laid out for all the see.

I've wondered what became of the alleged George's sighting. The waitress was familiar with Sherrill and Suzie, so it's difficult to dismiss as mistaken identity. I wonder if she had the right women, but the wrong night. (ie Friday night vs Saturday night). It wouldn't explain the third woman the waitress saw unless Sherrill and Suzy were there with another friend on Friday evening. I would think that if there were men there with the women- no matter what night- the men would want to step forward and identifiy themselves to be eliminated as possible suspects.

 

[Hurricane]

I never said it was a fact. I just threw it out for discussion. You have indicated that you might know the name of the "mystery man" but wouldn't say and I agree that would be unwise. Having said that it does not preclude that someone lured the women into a trap where they were taken to destinations unknown.

Just to be clear, I do not know what happened. I've never seen any police records but only have what others have told me privately and on open forums to go on. And we have the words of the prosecutor himself a few years ago stating that even he didn't know and wanted the alleged men at George's located and interviewed. Of course that may have all been a smokescreen but who knows?

I'm not willing to go on record as stating that I know the police have solved this crime. I don't. No one in an official capacity has ever approached me and said it was solved and needed only the evidence to bring justice to the case. In the absence of such authoritative information I, along with so many others, are left to speculation. So I am merely speculating. And I never said that I believed this was a likely scenario either. I don't really, but I won't rule it out until I see the case actually going to trial where the facts are laid out for all the see.

In decending order I would rank the CIA/MK-Ultra Abduction Theory just in front of Nettie's Illuminati Theory, followed by Worsham's Aliens Did It statement that you like to refer to when you want to make SPD look dumb.

As Brad Pitt said in character in one of his movies, "Fas-sa-natin!"

 

[dale417]

Not sure how to reply to either Missouri Mules or Hurricane's post except with this info. In the late 80s-early 90s, there was a federal case in connected to Springfield that tied into a case in the Seattle WA area. It involved a man and wife couple by the last name of Peacock. The case involved the trafficking of Oriental women into massage parlors scattered throughout the NW and also in Springfield (Tokoyo Sauna). The parties were found guilty; the wife was also an Oriental. So human trafficking is a possiblity.

 

[Hurricane]

Not sure how to reply to either Missouri Mules or Hurricane's post except with this info. In the late 80s-early 90s, there was a federal case in connected to Springfield that tied into a case in the Seattle WA area. It involved a man and wife couple by the last name of Peacock. The case involved the trafficking of Oriental women into massage parlors scattered throughout the NW and also in Springfield (Tokoyo Sauna). The parties were found guilty; the wife was also an Oriental. So human trafficking is a possiblity.

Dale, I'm not familiar with the case you cite but indentured servitude happens frequently, and it is usually an Asian/Oriental crime. The host agrees to pay the way for passage over in return for servitude in the form of "domestic help" for females for a period of time. The victims usually agree but find themselves in prostitution, unable to fullfill their obligation and earn their freedom.

There are cases where young attractive American females take jobs with wealthy families or bachelor males overseas in order to "see the world" and have trouble returning. A young female friend of mine was a private chef for a Saudi family for several years, but had no problems leaving when her contract was up.

 

[dale417]

Hurricane, I agree with your statements. I don't see any connections between our case of the 3MW and the one I mentioned. I only recalled it as an event that occurred in the area around the same time frame.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I've wondered what became of the alleged George's sighting. The waitress was familiar with Sherrill and Suzie, so it's difficult to dismiss as mistaken identity. I wonder if she had the right women, but the wrong night. (ie Friday night vs Saturday night). It wouldn't explain the third woman the waitress saw unless Sherrill and Suzy were there with another friend on Friday evening. I would think that if there were men there with the women- no matter what night- the men would want to step forward and identifiy themselves to be eliminated as possible suspects.

When I first started looking at this case I put a lot of credence into this possibility. But there are several problems. 1) The timeline almost in and of itself eliminates it as the girls could not arrive back much before about 2:50 AM and the waitress puts it between 1 and 3 AM (going on memory). 2) There are no verifying accounts from any other people that I know anything about. 3) According to a reporter who covered this case there was something about the clothing that did not match what the women normally were known to wear. I believe it was believed the women were wearing western wear (going on memory).

It would have been very helpful if the men had come forth to identify themselves as well as the women themselves but for reasons not known, they never did; at least according to published accounts. As we do know the false sighting of Sherrill at the convenience store was quickly debunked although it was given great prominence in the early days.

But the fact that Moore, the prosecutor, still wanted to run it to ground means that it cannot be ruled out of hand. I would say it is about 95% debunked.

 

[Auramyst]

I don't have so much of a disconnect with the timeframe of the alleged George's sighting- it still fits within the loose timeframe of the girls leaving the party and arriving at Suzy's. I understand George's was fairly close to the house, so I can believe it wouldn't have taken much time to get there.

My disconnect with the possible George's sighting is if no one else remembers them being there.

But, that being said, the investigator said that three tips were called in that weren't thoroughly investigated.

If three tips were called in, by three separate people, then I would say the odds are pretty good the three women might have been there.

I understand that George's was the place to go after a night of partying. If witnesses were under the influence, then that would make it harder to pin down the time and what these ladies were wearing. But it wouldn't be impossible. These three ladies were very pretty. I can readily believe that someone would have seen them, but not remembered the details of what they were wearing. If one of them was wearing a hat, I could see someone thinking it was western wear. It would also be the same thing if one of them was wearing boots (I'm thinking Sherrill).

So, if it's true, how much does the George's sighting change the scenario? Well, it would put all three of the women together and unharmed until around 4 AM. It might explain the early news reports that the cars were in different positions at different times of the night- depending on which car they took to George's and where they parked when they got back to the house.

The George's sighting, if proved true, would be an intriguing addition to this sad mystery.

 

[Hurricane]

I don't have so much of a disconnect with the timeframe of the alleged George's sighting- it still fits within the loose timeframe of the girls leaving the party and arriving at Suzy's. I understand George's was fairly close to the house, so I can believe it wouldn't have taken much time to get there.

My disconnect with the possible George's sighting is if no one else remembers them being there.

But, that being said, the investigator said that three tips were called in that weren't thoroughly investigated.

If three tips were called in, by three separate people, then I would say the odds are pretty good the three women might have been there.

I understand that George's was the place to go after a night of partying. If witnesses were under the influence, then that would make it harder to pin down the time and what these ladies were wearing. But it wouldn't be impossible. These three ladies were very pretty. I can readily believe that someone would have seen them, but not remembered the details of what they were wearing. If one of them was wearing a hat, I could see someone thinking it was western wear. It would also be the same thing if one of them was wearing boots (I'm thinking Sherrill).

So, if it's true, how much does the George's sighting change the scenario? Well, it would put all three of the women together and unharmed until around 4 AM. It might explain the early news reports that the cars were in different positions at different times of the night- depending on which car they took to George's and where they parked when they got back to the house.

The George's sighting, if proved true, would be an intriguing addition to this sad mystery.

None of her fellow employees working with her at George's that morning would substantiate the waitresses account. No other customer that morning would substantiate her account either and I find all of that very troubling especially when she claimed that one of the girls appeared to be inebriated and brought unwanted attention to the group. The "real women" and the men in her account never came forward because it was all just a story.

 

[Auramyst]

None of her fellow employees working with her at George's that morning would substantiate the waitresses account. No other customer that morning would substantiate her account either and I find all of that very troubling especially when she claimed that one of the girls appeared to be inebriated and brought unwanted attention to the group. The "real women" and the men in her account never came forward because it was all just a story.

Was the 'George's sighting waitress' tip one of the ones that came in a few weeks after the disappearance or did it come in right away?

I've never been able to read the original N-L reports (because they are no longer available on line and I don't live near Springfield to go to the library to view them), but I have read this entire forum and there are quotes from the N-L scattered throughout.

If I remember correctly, it was mentioned that this tip came in around the same time as the 'porch lady van sighting' tip, is that true? If so, then yes, I believe the waitress was either mistaken with the identities of the three women, or more likely, got the dates mixed up. She saw Suzy, Sherrill, and a third lady in George's, but not early Sunday morning.
Has it ever been released who the tips came from? One was the waitress (who knew the women), but who called in the other two?

 

[Missouri Mule]

In decending order I would rank the CIA/MK-Ultra Abduction Theory just in front of Nettie's Illuminati Theory, followed by Worsham's Aliens Did It statement that you like to refer to when you want to make SPD look dumb.

As Brad Pitt said in character in one of his movies, "Fas-sa-natin!"

As I understood your post you kind of dismissed this possibility as highly unlikely but I'm just now reading that no less than 17 cases in or about Missouri in the past few years; including some from the Springfield area are now documented involving human trafficking.

The way I see this if it cannot be proven to be false, (as a plausible scenario) then I have to conclude it should be on the table for discussion.

This possibility was brought up years ago by a good friend who had followed this case and thought it would be exceedingly easy to put the women in one of the over the road rigs in the cars that are transported into Mexico. At the time I heard that I dismissed it as implausible. Now I'm not so sure.

 

[Auramyst]

As I understood your post you kind of dismissed this possibility as highly unlikely but I'm just now reading that no less than 17 cases in or about Missouri in the past few years; including some from the Springfield area are now documented involving human trafficking.

The way I see this if it cannot be proven to be false, (as a plausible scenario) then I have to conclude it should be on the table for discussion.

This possibility was brought up years ago by a good friend who had followed this case and thought it would be exceedingly easy to put the women in one of the over the road rigs in the cars that are transported into Mexico. At the time I heard that I dismissed it as implausible. Now I'm not so sure.

Any situation/scenario, unless it has been explicitly proven false (ie: law enforcement has said the 'convenience store sighting' was false), then 'yes' it can and should be on the table for discussion.

 

[Auramyst]

As I understood your post you kind of dismissed this possibility as highly unlikely but I'm just now reading that no less than 17 cases in or about Missouri in the past few years; including some from the Springfield area are now documented involving human trafficking.

The way I see this if it cannot be proven to be false, (as a plausible scenario) then I have to conclude it should be on the table for discussion.

This possibility was brought up years ago by a good friend who had followed this case and thought it would be exceedingly easy to put the women in one of the over the road rigs in the cars that are transported into Mexico. At the time I heard that I dismissed it as implausible. Now I'm not so sure.

Can you tell us about some of those cases? Did those cases have any elements in common with our 3MW case?

 

[wfgodot]

Yes, when I think "human trafficking," I think of teen runaways taken away from bus stations, that sort of thing.

 

[Hurricane]

Was the 'George's sighting waitress' tip one of the ones that came in a few weeks after the disappearance or did it come in right away?

I've never been able to read the original N-L reports (because they are no longer available on line and I don't live near Springfield to go to the library to view them), but I have read this entire forum and there are quotes from the N-L scattered throughout.

If I remember correctly, it was mentioned that this tip came in around the same time as the 'porch lady van sighting' tip, is that true? If so, then yes, I believe the waitress was either mistaken with the identities of the three women, or more likely, got the dates mixed up. She saw Suzy, Sherrill, and a third lady in George's, but not early Sunday morning.
Has it ever been released who the tips came from? One was the waitress (who knew the women), but who called in the other two?

I don't recall exactly when the waitress came forward but is was several days into the investigation but before the Porch Lady came forward. You can probably find the specifics here in thread #1 or #2. That would have been about when it was discussed. I believe the info in the sticky claiming there were two other callers from George's is incorrect. Those callers were reporting other tips. There is a lot of info in the stickies that is either unverified or incorrect. Speculations and opinions found there way into the stickies and are now used as if they are facts so I wouldn't rely on that info without verification.

My belief and opinion is that the waitress was probably discredited; maybe even admitted to making her story up in a follow up interview; possibly around the time when Moore wanted SPD to take a second look.

 

[Auramyst]

I don't recall exactly when the waitress came forward but is was several days into the investigation but before the Porch Lady came forward. You can probably find the specifics here in thread #1 or #2. That would have been about when it was discussed. I believe the info in the sticky claiming there were two other callers from George's is incorrect. Those callers were reporting other tips. There is a lot of info in the stickies that is either unverified or incorrect. Speculations and opinions found there way into the stickies and are now used as if they are facts so I wouldn't rely on that info without verification.

My belief and opinion is that the waitress was probably discredited; maybe even admitted to making her story up in a follow up interview; possibly around the time when Moore wanted SPD to take a second look.

I agree, speculations and opinions becoming 'facts' makes this case very hard to sleuth.

As I find *some* archived news articles on the web, I've been copying and saving them. I'll start posting them on the 'media' sticky.

Anyway, here's the news article and the direct quote:

http://www.news-leader.com/article/20030608/NEWS01/60608040

Here's the quote:

"Moore still holds out hope from Barry County. He says some questions still haven't been answered. One of those relates to the early morning hours the women reportedly disappeared.

Back in 1992, three calls came in to police that the three women were seen in the early morning hours at George's Steakhouse. The callers said they also saw three men with them.

Moore wants to know who those three men are, and if they could be related to suspects developed in Barry County."