The state Rests in The State v. Jodi Arias: break in trial until 28 January 2013 #12

[lil_buddy]

Has it been established that she won't get the death penalty? Because she is a young white female?

It's still on the the table, but I personally doubt it's gonna happen.

 

[LambChop]

Her mode of operation is to bring gun and knives with her, hidden. She was doing it again, a gun, bullets and knives, plus a rental car. I do not think she was just fleeing before her arrest. I think she was also going to visit someone. I'm not sure whom, but my first two guesses are either Mimi or Ryan.
Just thinking here.

Or, could she have been headed for the boarder? She would certainly need protection in Mexico. Wonder if there were relatives she could have stayed with in Mexico????

 

[minor4th]

That was part of the original footage they shot for the first show, but it was not aired. (extra footage).

I can't find it on that site anymore - has it been pulled?

I assume the interview with Travis' old girlfriend was not aired in the first one either.

It's still on the 48 Hours website. I just watched it. The older version is still on youtube, titled "Jodi Arias Documentary" (thanks to WS member David Lohr). I am listening to that one now.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I think it's true that many men will enjoy sex with a promiscuous woman but not want her for a long term relationship or marriage. I think while men are hard wired to spread their seed around, they are are also biologically wired to avoid promiscuous women for marriage, to avoid the risk of cuckoldery - raising and providing for a child who is not biologically your own due to a cheating wife. I'm not an expert but have read things about this.

A lot of women - in fact, every promiscuous woman I ever knew that slept around did it to receive validation from men & all these women were very insecure. They were also less likely to take care of their sexual health. Women like these will appear, to most men, less suited for a serious relationship. There are always exceptions, but on the whole, women who sleep around are doing themselves a huge disservice if what they want is marriage or a committed relationship. If all a woman wants is s-e-x then being promiscuous is a good way to get that. But it's usually not a good way to get a husband.

I actually think a lot of women leave a very good man because of the sex aspect. They arent that much different imo and want exciting sex too. I have read about cases where a woman will leave a very good devoted husband/father and even have walked out on their own children too only to go to a man that doesnt give a chit about her and only wants the sex. Some have even plotted to murder the husband to get rid of him so she can be with the one who sexually pleases her.

Sex imo is very important aspect for most males and females lives. It has caused many divorces and more women file for divorces than men.

 

[txbluesman]

I have also been questioning my own shot-then-stabbed theory. The ME said the bullet had to have travelled through the brain, and I don't think that can be disputed. And even if a gun shot to the head is not always fatal, it does seem that it is pretty much always incapacitating initially because of the shock to the entire brain.

ETA: I just read this link http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/01/22/what-really-killed-travis-alexander

I see that another expert believes he could have just been "dazed" by the gunshot to the head, and believes the shot came first. The doctor gives an alternate explanation as to why there would not be a great deal of bleeding from the gunshot (he subsequently had a more devastating injury that resulted in greater and more rapid blood loss than the head wound).

She does acknowledge that the ME was in the best position to evaluate the wounds, but just seeing another doctor say that it's possible that Travis would not necessarily have been incapacitated by the gunshot is enough for me to believe that he was shot first for all the reasons I said in the "sequence" thread.

Also, you can read the ME's actual report from a link within the article.

This is the first time that I've read the full ME's report.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like the bullet only traveled 1.5 inches from where it entered the skull and then through the palate. You realize that this is the area of the brain that was used for frontal lobotomies, right? Longer instruments were used and they went much deeper into the frontal lobe. Those are neither fatal or incapacitating.

This is almost like a mini-lobotomy. Mood-altering, yes. Instantly fatal, far from it.

Edit: Here's a link describing the technique. WARNING, GRAPHIC: [video=youtube;_0aNILW6ILk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0aNILW6ILk[/video]

The projectile was only 1/8" in diameter, according to Horn, the ME.

Horn says he was not able to get any evidence from the brain, as it had decomposed faster than other tissue.

Gun first.

 

[kscornfed]

Great article....however this has me baffled a bit --->
"
However, if the defense can show that Alexander was shot in the head first, attorneys can argue that all of Alexander's other wounds happened after he died, and so he didn't suffer -- and that could save Arias from the death penalty."

he was obviously alive when he got those nasty cuts on his hands whilst trying to fend off the knife.

Moo Moo Moo

that's a problem for them, for sure. it's very obvious that's their strategy though----the remove the cruelty by claiming he was mortally wounded right away and didn't suffer that much.

somehow, i doubt very much the jury will be left believing 'oh. i get it! well, it's not so bad then.' no way!!

 

[PASA]

Hi,

I am new to this forum. I have tried to keep up, but my job and housework keep getting in the way

Tonight I was able to watch Nancy Grace and she was talking about how when the police arrrested JA, they found that she had knives stashed in between her books in her car. Later, a 9mm gun was found hidden in her trunk!

I am just wondering if I watched an old episode or if the show was actually current? It almost seemed like she was planning another "Killer Road Trip".

TIA

Welcome to Websleuths!

 

[minor4th]

not me.

And it also seems highly likely that JA gave the 25 ammo to her mom when she was at the house (25 ammo recovered at mom's house and none found at grandma's):twocents:

It would be interesting to know if mom even had a 25 cal gun.

Not that it really matters I guess, since Jodi has confessed to shooting Travis, and there's nothing to suggest anything other than Jodi stole the gun from her grandparents' house 6 days before she used it on Travis.

 

[shelley921]

I actually think a lot of women leave a very good man because of the sex aspect. They arent that much different imo and want exciting sex too. I have read about cases where a woman will leave a very good devoted husband/father and even have walked out on their own children too only to go to a man that doesnt give a chit about her and only wants the sex. Some have even plotted to murder the husband to get rid of him so she can be with the one who sexually pleases her.

Sex imo is very important aspect for most males and females lives. It has caused many divorces and more women file for divorces than men.

I agree and have read about this also. I think I also read women are just as likely to cheat after marriage as men are and many do. I think sex can become even more important to an older woman and for many older men, it becomes less important. I have a woman friend --she's married 20 years to a great man. They are devoted to one another but he lost his sex drive. She has a lover 18 years younger. She won't leave her husband - she loves him but says she needs sex to feel "womanly".

 

[Snoopy1]

It's still on the the table, but I personally doubt it's gonna happen.

I dont think she'll get the DP either. Maybe LWOP. lease:

 

[nursebeeme]

minor4th is a verified attorney!

Looking forward to your input minor4th! :rocker:

 

[minor4th]

This is the first time that I've read the full ME's report.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like the bullet only traveled 1.5 inches from where it entered the skull and then through the palate. You realize that this is the area of the brain that was used for frontal lobotomies, right? Longer instruments were used and they went much deeper into the frontal lobe. Those are neither fatal or incapacitating.

This is almost like a mini-lobotomy. Mood-altering, yes. Fatal, far from it.

Horn says he was not able to get any evidence from the brain, as it had decomposed faster than other tissue.

Gun first.

Gun first, I agree.

Yeah, at a maximum the bullet travelled 1.5 inches in the brain.

 

[lil_buddy]

After reading the following, BBM:

"[Arias] was totally obsessed with him," Hughes said. "She wouldn't let him go. Whenever he would try to sever all ties, she would threaten to kill herself ... He would tell her he didn't want anything to do with her, and she would show up at his house. We knew it was her. We didn't want it to be her, but [we] just knew it was."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/29/jodi-arias_n_1174274.html
​

I can’t help but wonder if that last eerie photo of TA in the shower was when TA saw JA with the knife/gun pointed at herself as a fake sign of impending suicide.

Could JA have subsequently dropped the camera as TA lunged toward her in his attempt to disarm her from hurting herself and JA intentionally and premeditatedly turned the knife/gun on TA?

The story I made up in my head is a lot like this...

I think she went there to convince him to take her to Cancun. She begged, used sex, threatened to kill herself, and hurled insults, tried everything.

The murder was premeditated in the legal sense, but not in the sense that a sane person would go about planning a murder. If you were planning a murder, you would try to to think and plan for all worst-case scenarios so that you would never get caught, right? For her the murder scenario was one possible fantasy swirling around in that sea of madness that's her mind. She had not committed murder when she got there.

The cluster B's are horrible at planning and given to self-destructive impulses.

The voice of crazy inside JA's head: He wouldn't listen. I tried to save him, but he wouldn't agree to my demands. Why wouldn't he just do as I asked?

{This is my tale of fiction}

 

[minor4th]

minor4th is a verified attorney!

Looking forward to your input minor4th! :rocker:

Thanks for taking the time to do the verification. Glad to be part of the discussion.

 

[LegalEye]

I actually think a lot of women leave a very good man because of the sex aspect. They arent that much different imo and want exciting sex too. I have read about cases where a woman will leave a very good devoted husband/father and even have walked out on their own children too only to go to a man that doesnt give a chit about her and only wants the sex. Some have even plotted to murder the husband to get rid of him so she can be with the one who sexually pleases her.

Sex imo is very important aspect for most males and females lives. It has caused many divorces and more women file for divorces than men.

I agree with this, Andrea Sniderman comes to mind

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree and have read about this also. I think I also read women are just as likely to cheat after marriage as men are and many do. I think sex can become even more important to an older woman and for many older men, it becomes less important. I have a woman friend --she's married 20 years to a great man. They are devoted to one another but he lost his sex drive. She has a lover 18 years younger. She won't leave her husband - she loves him but says she needs sex to feel "womanly".

I guess that can be the case sometimes for why men and women stay. Im not sure it becomes less important as a man ages though. I see loads of men who divorce and wind up with another woman way younger than them. lol Women do it too.

But I can say this with a big smile on my face.........my hubby hasnt lost one ounce of his sex drive and I wouldnt want him any other way. :floorlaugh: Of course he keeps himself very healthy and fit and so do I.

 

[minor4th]

Great article....however this has me baffled a bit --->
"
However, if the defense can show that Alexander was shot in the head first, attorneys can argue that all of Alexander's other wounds happened after he died, and so he didn't suffer -- and that could save Arias from the death penalty."

he was obviously alive when he got those nasty cuts on his hands whilst trying to fend off the knife.

Moo Moo Moo

That is an absurd argument to make if the gunshot came first, and no jury is going to believe it.

I think the defense's best argument to mitigate the "extreme cruelty" qualification is to say that at least Jodi meant to kill him quickly with the gun, believing that the shot to the head would be fatal.

They are in a tricky position because they have to make alternative arguments: 1. she killed in self defense; 2. even if she intended to kill him, she tried to accomplish it quickly by shooting him but the gun jammed after the fist shot to the head.

 

[katiecoolady]

It would be interesting to know if mom even had a 25 cal gun.

Not that it really matters I guess, since Jodi has confessed to shooting Travis, and there's nothing to suggest anything other than Jodi stole the gun from her grandparents' house 6 days before she used it on Travis.

I do wonder if the defense will try and mitigate that element of premeditation by claiming the gun business was just coincidence.

 

[katiecoolady]

That is an absurd argument to make if the gunshot came first, and no jury is going to believe it.

I think the defense's best argument to mitigate the "extreme cruelty" qualification is to say that at least Jodi meant to kill him quickly with the gun, believing that the shot to the head would be fatal.

They are in a tricky position because they have to make alternative arguments: 1. she killed in self defense; 2. even if she intended to kill him, she tried to accomplish it quickly by shooting him but the gun jammed after the fist shot to the head.

They are going to have a very long road to wind if they try to claim this "heinous" murder was in any way shape or form "humane". (quoting the killer, herself)

 

[kscornfed]

They are going to have a very long road to wind if they try to claim this "heinous" murder was in any way shape or form "humane". (quoting the killer, herself)

almost as if it's travis's fault for not just dying right away. it's HIS fault she had to stab him all those times.

almost laughable but i've seen DA's get away with worse.