The state Rests in The State v. Jodi Arias: break in trial until 28 January 2013 #12

[PASA]

Wicca, The Secret, Mormonism, what's next?

Scientology?? :hypno:

 

[shelley921]

Hmm apparently I'm not allowed to be realistic.
If my viewpoint is interpreted as victim unfriendly I'll not mention TA again.
I simply cannot buy this wonderful, virtuous image of him.

I mean I see TA as someone who has some serious flaws.
He seems to deliberately encourage her attention.
I got the impression he initiated his fair share of the sex/sexting/phone sex stuff (don't have example off-hand but will search).
He's clearly quite the ladies man (from his blog and the insinuations of his friends) - I don't buy that it's in some cute, virginal, wholesome Mormon fantasy sort of way.
I don't think he abused anyone physically.
I think everyone on earth who has ever been in a romantic relationship has committed acts of 'verbal abuse' so I'm even going to bother with that one.

I think his psychology is interesting if we want to explore the nature of their relationship dynamic. I am not blaming him for his fate It would be like blaming someone for being killed in a tsunami or something. It's a freak act.

I find it hard to believe that there is a person on earth that has not at least felt used by a romantic partner, who has not been cheated on, lied to, misled. Yet 99.99% of people do not slaughter anyone because murder is wrong.

I don't buy he was a virgin. He was a flirt and a ladies man. I think lots of Mormons--males and females--have casual sex. I think he did too. But I think he was working hard to overcome his past and he had done more with his life than Jodi had. He wasn't freeloading or using people. He was a homeowner. He was working hard- inspiring people. What was she doing? She was a mediocre waitress-! A gold digger. I think he had genuine regard for others and she did not. He had flaws but nothing like hers!
Jodi is a really sick/evil person. Just her story [ now] about "self-defense"; all about defending the self, all about defending herself, not about Travis, or anyone else, not about telling the Truth; all about Jodi..

 

[Linda7NJ]

Just want to mention the person that walks around with BPD 24/7.

Not minimizing the affect on their partner but the BPD deals with this
illness with no cure in sight. All they have is therapy, medication, and DBT
classes which hopefully teaches control of their emotions and puts them in
the gray area of thinking instead of black and white.
Their emotions are always on a roller coaster ride and while the mate can
or does, leave there is no escape for the person living the nightmare.

Only the closest of relatives/friends stay by their side and I do agree
they are a handful.

Just needed to mention the other side of this crippling mind disease
and mention there are these victims and also the lives of the people they touch.

(Probably not well explained but I think my point is there)

Thanks!

Very sad. I understand your point.

I believe there is no medication, therapy or classes for Jodi's particular brand of crazy. Psychopathy=remove from society. The only cure is the death penalty.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I don't buy he was a virgin. He was a flirt and a ladies man. I think lots of Mormons--males and females--have casual sex. I think he did too. But I think he was working hard to overcome his past and he had done more with his life than Jodi had. He wasn't freeloading or using people. He was a homeowner. He was working hard- inspiring people. What was she doing? She was a mediocre waitress-! A gold digger. I think he had genuine regard for others and she did not. He had flaws but nothing like hers!
Jodi is a really sick/evil person. Just her story [ now] about "self-defense"; all about defending the self, all about defending herself, not about Travis, or anyone else, not about telling the Truth; all about Jodi..

Her excuse for not telling the truth earlier, she was protecting his reputation. Eye roll. Jodi altruistic? Ha ha ha thud!

 

[katiecoolady]

Yes, the "No Contact" technique for stalkers and domestic violence perpetrators isn't widely known. Mostly, people who know about "No Contact" are those who've had to USE it. Travis wouldn't have known about it unless he was googling information about getting rid of unwanted attention, or if he had talked to the police.....

Gavin De Becker's book The Gift of Fear is a must read, whether you need it or not.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Just want to mention the person that walks around with BPD 24/7.

Not minimizing the affect on their partner but the BPD deals with this
illness with no cure in sight. All they have is therapy, medication, and DBT
classes which hopefully teaches control of their emotions and puts them in
the gray area of thinking instead of black and white.
Their emotions are always on a roller coaster ride and while the mate can
or does, leave there is no escape for the person living the nightmare.

Only the closest of relatives/friends stay by their side and I do agree
they are a handful.

Just needed to mention the other side of this crippling mind disease
and mention there are these victims and also the lives of the people they touch.

(Probably not well explained but I think my point is there)

Thanks!

Thank you for sharing that and I think your point was very well explained. Yes, it is very hard for those around a BPD (from what I've read and experienced) to maintain compassion and empathy. It must be a lonely, shameful world for the BPD. The rage scares people away. I will also add that I believe JA has BPD (others like LindaNJ feels it's psychopathy) but we don't know officially yet.
Again, thank you for your perspectives......:rocker:

 

[LadyEdith]

Just want to mention the person that walks around with BPD 24/7.

Not minimizing the affect on their partner but the BPD deals with this
illness with no cure in sight. All they have is therapy, medication, and DBT
classes which hopefully teaches control of their emotions and puts them in
the gray area of thinking instead of black and white.
Their emotions are always on a roller coaster ride and while the mate can
or does, leave there is no escape for the person living the nightmare.

Only the closest of relatives/friends stay by their side and I do agree
they are a handful.

Just needed to mention the other side of this crippling mind disease
and mention there are these victims and also the lives of the people they touch.

(Probably not well explained but I think my point is there)

Thanks!

Same with those with Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Antisocial Personality Disorders. They are not "mood" disorders, they are disordered personalities---and there are no very successful treatments. Someone here mentioned that their personalities are "defective" and that's a great way to look at it.

I knew a therapist who did not agree that borderlines couldn't "help" it, when I argued that point with her (that they have no choice, they couldn't help it) she would fight me tooth and nail saying they choose who to manipulate and how. I think it's a gray area.

Whatever her psychological issues (we can all agree they are not run-of-the-mill) she knew what she did was wrong because she tried like hell to cover it up before and after the fact.

I wonder if there will ever be a real treatment for psychopaths/borderlines/etc.

 

[minor4th]

Hmm apparently I'm not allowed to be realistic.
If my viewpoint is interpreted as victim unfriendly I'll not mention TA again.
I simply cannot buy this wonderful, virtuous image of him.

I mean I see TA as someone who has some serious flaws.
He seems to deliberately encourage her attention.
I got the impression he initiated his fair share of the sex/sexting/phone sex stuff (don't have example off-hand but will search).
He's clearly quite the ladies man (from his blog and the insinuations of his friends) - I don't buy that it's in some cute, virginal, wholesome Mormon fantasy sort of way.
I don't think he abused anyone physically.
I think everyone on earth who has ever been in a romantic relationship has committed acts of 'verbal abuse' so I'm even going to bother with that one.

I think his psychology is interesting if we want to explore the nature of their relationship dynamic. I am not blaming him for his fate It would be like blaming someone for being killed in a tsunami or something. It's a freak act.

I find it hard to believe that there is a person on earth that has not at least felt used by a romantic partner, who has not been cheated on, lied to, misled. Yet 99.99% of people do not slaughter anyone because murder is wrong.

What do you think that he did that was manipulative of Jodi though?

 

[katiecoolady]

Except Travis had a more tangled relationship with sex than a non-Mormon or someone who doesn't have intense sexual restrictions and expectations. Even if he wanted to continue having sex, too bad he couldn't have found a "safe" person to do that with.

And clearly, he didn't realize his stalker was a threat to his life. If he had any idea what Jodi was ultimately capable of, he would have made police reports, gotten a restraining order, locked his doors, etc. He didn't equate stalker with imminent death.

A prostitute would have been safer than Jodi.

 

[LadyEdith]

Scientology?? :hypno:

Nice. They deserve her. That is a match made in heaven (or by Xenu)!:great::great::great::great::great:

 

[katiecoolady]

Same with those with Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Antisocial Personality Disorders. They are not "mood" disorders, they are disordered personalities---and there are no very successful treatments. Someone here mentioned that their personalities are "defective" and that's a great way to look at it.

I knew a therapist who did not agree that borderlines couldn't "help" it, when I argued that point with her (that they have no choice, they couldn't help it) she would fight me tooth and nail saying they choose who to manipulate and how. I think it's a gray area.

Whatever her psychological issues (we can all agree they are not run-of-the-mill) she knew what she did was wrong because she tried like hell to cover it up before and after the fact.

I wonder if there will ever be a real treatment for psychopaths/borderlines/etc.

They do that dialectical behavioral therapy for Borderlines but those who practice that simply have the patience of Saints. They test test test and manipulate manipulate manipulate and wreak havoc in every relationship. I worked inpatient Psych for years and the Borderlines were revolving doors...and exhausting.

 

[minor4th]

<snip>

Only the closest of relatives/friends stay by their side and I do agree
they are a handful.

Just needed to mention the other side of this crippling mind disease
and mention there are these victims and also the lives of the people they touch.

<snip>

Thanks!

When dealing with people afflicted by this disorder, it's often (virtually always) best to have empathy from a distance. I don't believe anyone should stay by the side of a person who is destructive and psychologically harmful like BPD's are to those who get close to them.

 

[LadyEdith]

They do that dialectical behavioral therapy for Borderlines but those who practice that simply have the patience of Saints. They test test test and manipulate manipulate manipulate and wreak havoc in every relationship. I worked inpatient Psych for years and the Borderlines were revolving doors...and exhausting.

I have family members who have BPD and yes, EXHAUSTING is the word. I think it's a lot like alcoholism, in that it is a family disease--everyone around the person suffers tremendously. Jeez the drama, the manufactured drama, the accusations, the roller coaster relationships, the manipulation. Really, a relationship with a borderline is like having a tiger by the tail.

And what's worse, the two borderline's in my family got much worse when they hit middle age ---- the crazy increased and burned bright. I have one who is past that age and one who is in the middle. The older one's crazy has mellowed with age, the middle-aged one is in raging crazy right now.

It's too bad, if you get near to try and help, you end up getting bit.

 

[katiecoolady]

When dealing with people afflicted by this disorder, it's often (virtually always) best to have empathy from a distance. I don't believe anyone should stay by the side of a person who is destructive and psychologically harmful like BPD's are to those who get close to them.

This isn't for the truth of the matter but just to share. I once asked one of our Psychologists on our unit what he saw as the difference between a Borderline and a Sociopath and he said "a sociopath is a borderline who's crossed the line in to criminal behavior". Thoughts? All of these personality disorders are so blended too. I mean I never met a borderline who wasn't also quite Narcissistic.

 

[kkdj]

Oh how awful. Is he out of the picture now? I'm so sorry.

Yes thankyou.
I hope he never comes around again. He is a psychopath IMO. Obviously I have a lot more stories. Stalkers are very creepy. The judge announced in the courtroom that he is "scary"!
He also served time for animal abuse!

 

[katiecoolady]

I have family members who have BPD and yes, EXHAUSTING is the word. I think it's a lot like alcoholism, in that it is a family disease--everyone around the person suffers tremendously. Jeez the drama, the manufactured drama, the accusations, the roller coaster relationships, the manipulation. Really, a relationship with a borderline is like having a tiger by the tail.

And what's worse, the two borderline's in my family got much worse when they hit middle age ---- the crazy increased and burned bright. I have one who is past that age and one who is in the middle. The older one's crazy has mellowed with age, the middle-aged one is in raging crazy right now.

It's too bad, if you get near to try and help, you end up getting bit.

I'll take my brother with his diagnosis of Schizophrenia any day of the week over a Personality Disorder. Who, also, by the way, after 20 years of extreme symptoms is about 99% symptom free. This last year has been walking in a miracle. It's like he "woke up" like those patients in the movie Awakenings. My brother is back...after all these years. Tangent but just wanted to share because it's the biggest joy and light in my life.

 

[lil_buddy]

What do you think that he did that was manipulative of Jodi though?

They break up and become friends with benefits. JA clearly cannot handle this evidenced by the stalking. If someone is not handling a break up and a FWB deal that they continue to have strong feelings and want more from the relationship. Despite this, he continues to have sex with her and go on (and completely paying for) mini-vacations with her. He was using her.

I do not see how his behavior can be interpreted as kind or honorable. I also do not see how one could argue that he was doing all this because he was afraid of further abuse or that she would kill herself.

Am I missing something? Maybe I'm crazy - projecting too much lol.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yes thankyou.
I hope he never comes around again. He is a psychopath IMO. Obviously I have a lot more stories. Stalkers are very creepy. The judge announced in the courtroom that he is "scary"!
He also served time for animal abuse!

When I read what yours did...It took me awhile to even process it. Horrifying !!!

 

[katiecoolady]

They break up and become friends with benefits. JA clearly cannot handle this evidenced by the stalking. If someone is not handling a break up and a FWB deal that they continue to have strong feelings and want more from the relationship. Despite this, he continues to have sex with her and go on (and completely paying for) mini-vacations with her. He was using her.

I do not see how his behavior can be interpreted as kind or honorable. I also do not see how one could argue that he was doing all this because he was afraid of further abuse or that she would kill herself.

Am I missing something? Maybe I'm crazy - projecting too much lol.

I know very very very few women who can handle a FWB relationship without getting attached. When I hear someone claiming that, I think (sounding completely judgmental), they are either BSing me or themself or the lover or all of the above. Women biologically are not wired to be detached when it comes to sexuality.

 

[LadyEdith]

This isn't for the truth of the matter but just to share. I once asked one of our Psychologists on our unit what he saw as the difference between a Borderline and a Sociopath and he said "a sociopath is a borderline who's crossed the line in to criminal behavior". Thoughts? All of these personality disorders are so blended too. I mean I never met a borderline who wasn't also quite Narcissistic.

I'm ready for this in depth discussion---where are the resident experts?opcorn: