The supposed "evidence" against Mark Byers

[Compassionate Reader]

It's more than they've got on Terry Hobbs, you know the old 'let's go after the parents' strategy is on the same par as the 'George buried her! Oh and he abused me and all when I was a kid and that's why I'm such a liar, it's all dad's fault' defense from the Casey Anthony case. How this can be endorsed I have no idea, I mean they are free for god's sake, it's a lot more than was expected, there is no real need to continuously harass an innocent man who also lost his stepson.

First, I disagree with the BBM statement above. JMB has been cleared by timeline, IMO. And, FWIW, he passed a polygraph, too. He didn't become a supporter for any reason other than seeking the truth and true justice for his son. Despite what some may believe, he has not made any substantial money on this case, unlike Hobbs who was paid ($25,000, IIRC) by Dimension Films for his life rights.

As to why I personally am not satisfied that "they are free," I want to see them exonerated and the real killer tried and convicted because I want justice to be served. If Hobbs is innocent, why is he reluctant to provide biological samples? JMB provided samples to the wmpd and the defense, even when he was a non. Hobbs has not done this, and I will always consider him a suspect until he is cleared - which he hasn't been, IMO. As to Hobbs' "loss" of his stepson, I'm sorry but I just can't seem to find any pity in my heart for him, since he is a wife and child abuser over at least two marriages.

I know JMB isn't a saint. He will admit to that, too. However, when he said many of the defamatory things about Damien, Jason and Jessie, he was still reeling with grief over the loss of his son (not his stepson as JMB legally adopted Chris - which is why his last name is Byers). Hobbs, OTOH, told his grieving wife to "just get over" her son's death. Again, I can't seem to muster up much sympathy for him.

 

[LordYAM]

Hobbs violently beat his child, he beat his family, he threatened another woman, he KILLED another man (his own brother in law), every member of the family testified, and he refused to cooperate. As Compassionate Reader stated, even Byers donated evidence when he was a suspect. And this was WHEN HE THOUGHT THEY WERE GUILTY. Hobbs is refusing to cooperate at all, and while yes MAYBE he wants to make a point (that he shouldn't have too) it's kind of stupid and doesn't change that when he was directly questioned he got evasive and uncomfortable. Put him in a situation where he can't call a lawyer and has to submit to direct questioning for long enough and he'll probably sing like a canary. Jacoby has turned on him as well (he places Hobbs with the boys) and Hobbs ultimately lost the lawsuit. Hobbs is enough of a violent monster that he could have murdered those boys in a fit of rage. All the supporters did was drag that violence out into the spotlight.

All I'm saying is that the case is far murkier than most people will want to admit. Hobbs being involved makes things more complicated, and raises more uncomfortable facts to life (namely, that a seemingly upstanding member of the community is in fact a violent psychopath, and that the case can't be tied up neatly.) That's pretty much a common trend I noticed amongst literally every last person who thinks they are guilty. They wish for everything to be neat and tidy, and that the police aren't nearly as incompeten or corrupt as the case would imply; If Jesse Miskelley's confession were coerced, If all his statements are bogus, if the knife doesn't match, if the testimonies are bunk (at the very least they are circumstantial and most are highly dubious, and all can be explained through alternate explanations,) than it means that the police ****ed up. Not only would three innocent people have had their lives destroyed through incompetence it also means the real killer may never be caught. Todd Moore believes they are guilty because it grants him closure. Believing they are innocent means admitting that his son's killer will probably never be caught. It also means that the police system is fallible, that the police can be incompetent and make mistakes due to pressure and or plain stupidity. GNorris definately has that problem, UBDCrazy has it as well.

 

[Ausgirl]

I wish we could all express our opinions without A/insulting each other and B/ demeaning other people's opinions with words like 'stupid', 'foolish' and all those annoying little jabs like "as much as some wish to believe it" and unnecessary snideness like that.

Me, included. My temper is too short with people, at times. I can improve this, with deep breaths and the ignore function where applicable.

It really doesn't aid anyone's credibility, and I have now taken to utterly ignoring posts in which there's outright hostility, arrogant snideness and direct insults. Toward ANYone.

I think we're all actually a bit better than that, and would probably all get along really nicely IRL. I am sure we are all really nice people.

Can we not act like it?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Hobbs violently beat his child, he beat his family, he threatened another woman, he KILLED another man (his own brother in law), every member of the family testified, and he refused to cooperate. As Compassionate Reader stated, even Byers donated evidence when he was a suspect. And this was WHEN HE THOUGHT THEY WERE GUILTY. Hobbs is refusing to cooperate at all, and while yes MAYBE he wants to make a point (that he shouldn't have too) it's kind of stupid and doesn't change that when he was directly questioned he got evasive and uncomfortable. Put him in a situation where he can't call a lawyer and has to submit to direct questioning for long enough and he'll probably sing like a canary. Jacoby has turned on him as well (he places Hobbs with the boys) and Hobbs ultimately lost the lawsuit. Hobbs is enough of a violent monster that he could have murdered those boys in a fit of rage. All the supporters did was drag that violence out into the spotlight.

All I'm saying is that the case is far murkier than most people will want to admit. Hobbs being involved makes things more complicated, and raises more uncomfortable facts to life (namely, that a seemingly upstanding member of the community is in fact a violent psychopath, and that the case can't be tied up neatly.) That's pretty much a common trend I noticed amongst literally every last person who thinks they are guilty. They wish for everything to be neat and tidy, and that the police aren't nearly as incompeten or corrupt as the case would imply; If Jesse Miskelley's confession were coerced, If all his statements are bogus, if the knife doesn't match, if the testimonies are bunk (at the very least they are circumstantial and most are highly dubious, and all can be explained through alternate explanations,) than it means that the police ****ed up. Not only would three innocent people have had their lives destroyed through incompetence it also means the real killer may never be caught. Todd Moore believes they are guilty because it grants him closure. Believing they are innocent means admitting that his son's killer will probably never be caught. It also means that the police system is fallible, that the police can be incompetent and make mistakes due to pressure and or plain stupidity. GNorris definately has that problem, UBDCrazy has it as well.

First of all you should stick to the actual facts, instead of making up or exaggerating, and second of all calling us out by name is not on.

 

[LordYAM]

I'm hardly exgerrateing, and I'm calling you by name because you honestly seem to be doing that (at least that's how I perceive it). I honestly feel that you and UBD and kyle are being intellectually dishonest even if you aren't trying to be. You're doing mental olympics to justify why hobbs dna was in those shoelaces when chances of it surviving more than 24 hours are pretty slim due to the circumstances, UBD acts like hobbs is a victim just because he's a stepfather when stepfathers are amongst the most likely suspects, and she is all "LALALALALALALALALLA I'm not listening laLAlaLALA" When it's pointed out that Hobbs didn't even tell Pam Stevie was missing (Amanda did) and that Pam didn't know until 9:15. Stevie was supposed to be home by 4:30 that afternoon, and he wasn't home by 5. Hobbs should have called her up earlier. You also try to ignore that Hobbs has a violent past and is pretty much confirmed to have beaten members of his family, and is enough of a monster that he could have done it. You also ignore that people can falsely confess multiple times. I concluded that it was because you want things to be neat and tidy, and that stepparents like Terry Hobbs wouldn't do that kind of atrocity. You do seem to ignore that stepparents, parents and family friends are far more likely to murder a child than some freak.

 

[kyleb]

I honestly feel that you and UBD and kyle are being intellectually dishonest even if you aren't trying to be.

Well the dearth of evidence you provide to substantiate your beliefs while pointing your finger at others makes for a textbook example of psychological projection.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

I'm hardly exgerrateing, and I'm calling you by name because you honestly seem to be doing that (at least that's how I perceive it). I honestly feel that you and UBD and kyle are being intellectually dishonest even if you aren't trying to be. You're doing mental olympics to justify why hobbs dna was in those shoelaces when chances of it surviving more than 24 hours are pretty slim due to the circumstances, UBD acts like hobbs is a victim just because he's a stepfather when stepfathers are amongst the most likely suspects, and she is all "LALALALALALALALALLA I'm not listening laLAlaLALA" When it's pointed out that Hobbs didn't even tell Pam Stevie was missing (Amanda did) and that Pam didn't know until 9:15. Stevie was supposed to be home by 4:30 that afternoon, and he wasn't home by 5. Hobbs should have called her up earlier. You also try to ignore that Hobbs has a violent past and is pretty much confirmed to have beaten members of his family, and is enough of a monster that he could have done it. You also ignore that people can falsely confess multiple times. I concluded that it was because you want things to be neat and tidy, and that stepparents like Terry Hobbs wouldn't do that kind of atrocity. You do seem to ignore that stepparents, parents and family friends are far more likely to murder a child than some freak.

BBM

How old was Amanda at that time?

How do you know I'm a she?

 

[Compassionate Reader]

BBM

How old was Amanda at that time?

She was four. My three-year-old great-niece could easily tell if her older brother wasn't home, so I'm not sure what Amanda's age has to do with the fact that TH never communicated with Pam that Steven was still missing. That has always bothered me.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

She was four. My three-year-old great-niece could easily tell if her older brother wasn't home, so I'm not sure what Amanda's age has to do with the fact that TH never communicated with Pam that Steven was still missing. That has always bothered me.

He didn't have to communicate it to her because she already knew it before she left for work. FYI this is the 2nd time I've had to post it in this very thread.

RIVERA: Pam, can you tell us what happened that afternoon? What happened to your son? What was he usually doing at that time?

Mrs. HOBBS: After school, Michael had come over and asked could Stevie go to his house and play. At first I...

RIVERA: Michael Moore, one of the three victims, yeah.

Mrs. HOBBS: Sorry? Yeah. To Michael Moore's house, the other boy. And at first, I told him no. And he kept begging so I went ahead and told him that he could go, and I gave him a time to be home. I told him to be home by 4:30, that if he wasn't home, he would be grounded. And I had to go to work that night. And I left for work around 4:55 and he still wasn't at home. So I went on to work and my husband started searching for him. And we searched all night and just--it come up the next day that he was dead.

RIVERA: Who told you that they found his body?

Mrs. HOBBS: My husband and I went to the school to check, to tell them that we hadn't found the boys. And there, a lady said, I heard they just found three boys.' So we went to the park where they had found them at, and I run up. They already had the police line out and everything, and I run up, and someone said that it was Stevie, that it was the boys.

http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/geraldo.html

 

[Ausgirl]

Was there anything stopping Pam calling home to check on her son? Did she call and no-one answered? Was this not alarming for her, if so?

Why was Pam not immediately notified that the police were involved and that two other boys were also missing, presumed in company with her son?

Why did Terry, who was by own words SO concerned with the welfare of the kids that he'd be in and out of the house checking on them in the driveway all the time, go off to play guitar for around an hour, when Stevie was already notably missing?

Why'd Terry leave town in a hurry?

So many questions..

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Terry should have notified Pam that Steven was still missing. I'm aware that Pam knew that he was missing when she went to work. However, as others have said, four hours without telling a mother that her child is still missing is a bit excessive, IMO. Catfish Island wasn't that far away. If TH was out searching for Steven, why didn't he stop by to see if he had possibly gone to see his mother?

 

[gheckso]

Terry should have notified Pam that Steven was still missing. I'm aware that Pam knew that he was missing when she went to work. However, as others have said, four hours without telling a mother that her child is still missing is a bit excessive, IMO. Catfish Island wasn't that far away. If TH was out searching for Steven, why didn't he stop by to see if he had possibly gone to see his mother?

If TH was out searching for Steve, he probably would have stopped by.

 

[primitivefuture]

Terry should have notified Pam that Steven was still missing. I'm aware that Pam knew that he was missing when she went to work. However, as others have said, four hours without telling a mother that her child is still missing is a bit excessive, IMO. Catfish Island wasn't that far away. If TH was out searching for Steven, why didn't he stop by to see if he had possibly gone to see his mother?

I agree. I haven't see anyone argue that Pam didn't know her son wasn't home when she left for work. However, there is a big difference between Pam knowing he was a half hour late at 5PM and Pam knowing that he had been missing along with two friends for several hours when day has turned into night, it had gotten dark outside and she knew her son was afraid of the dark. Not to mention that the police had been notified. I don't think there is any excuse for Terry not notifying her.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[UdbCrzy2]

What about Todd Moore, was he notified immediately?

Did Terry & Pam even have a phone?

Terry was probably out searching for three boys and relating with the other parents who were in fact present and then police.

 

[gheckso]

I don't think there is any excuse for Terry not notifying her.

I find it very worrying that there are those who try.:scared:

 

[reedus23]

He didn't have to communicate it to her because she already knew it before she left for work. FYI this is the 2nd time I've had to post it in this very thread.




http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/geraldo.html

So what if she knew he was missing when she went to work? Are you even suggesting that TH shouldn't have told her that he was still missing even after another hour passed? Or another hour? Or another hour? Or another hour? Or another boy? Or yet another boy? C'mon, I understand you don't want to agree with anyone that remotely supports a continuing investigation into this case but to suggest that TH shouldn't have called her at a minimum to let her know he's still missing and 2 others cant be found either is beyond comprehension. If I did that, my wife would make sure I never had kids again.

 

[reedus23]

What about Todd Moore, was he notified immediately?

Did Terry & Pam even have a phone?

Terry was probably out searching for three boys and relating with the other parents who were in fact present and then police.

So it was serious enough to "relate" with other parents and it was serious enough to "relate" to police but not serious enough to "relate" it all to his mother? You're not losing anything in your argument that the WM3 are guilty by conceding that TH should have kept her in the loop.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

So it was serious enough to "relate" with other parents and it was serious enough to "relate" to police but not serious enough to "relate" it all to his mother? You're not losing anything in your argument that the WM3 are guilty by conceding that TH should have kept her in the loop.

She was notified and picked up.

She knew he was missing when she left for work too.

Why didn't she call someone?

 

[reedus23]

She was notified and picked up.

She knew he was missing when she left for work too.

Why didn't she call someone?

I'm just going to leave it alone Ud. You're entitled to your opinion and if I express my opinions at this point, I might not be posting here anymore. Suffice it to say, HUGE difference between 15-30 minutes late and multiple kids missing after dark.

 

[gheckso]

She was notified and picked up.

She knew he was missing when she left for work too.

Why didn't she call someone?

How can one possibly believe that Steve not being home at 4:30 in the afternoon is in anyway comparable to him still being missing with two other children hours later and at night?

speechless.