The Talent show

[stmarysmead]

I don't think Kyron was scheduled to be in the talent show. I just haven't seen anything that convinces me he was, and that he didn't mention it to Kaine that morning (nor Kaine to him), as excited as he gets about all things school related according to Kaine, convinces me more that he was not scheduled for the talent show.

All I've seen is a couple or three parents of other students claiming that Kyron was supposed to be in the talent show. That's not enough for me.

I think Kyron wandering out of the school on his own is a contender for what may have happened to him. I haven't seen anything that convinces me he's shy at school. I think he's more likely social and energetic, as Capt Gates said. I think wandering out with the flower bed kids, for example, is a contender.

BBM...Of course, without more information, all any us can do is speculate. We ALL tend to disregard "a couple or three people" if they do not fit OUR theory and we embrace and quote them when they do. Such is the nature of "sleuthing" when LE has been sparse with real information.

As to the quotes about Kyron's enthusiasm, many of us can be wildly enthusiastic about anything until it involves public speaking or having to perform in front of an audience. I know many people who are quite animated in their opinions until they have to stand up and address a large group. I wonder how many here would happily go on stage much less a child.

Being enthusiastic and having stage fright are not mutually exclusive.

That said, I not believe Kyron was the architect of his own disappearance over stage fright or anything else. That is my opinion only, of course. And, until we know more, I suppose we can only nuture our own views, whatever they might be.

 

[debs]

BBM...Of course, without more information, all any us can do is speculate. We ALL tend to disregard "a couple or three people" if they do not fit OUR theory and we embrace and quote them when they do. Such is the nature of "sleuthing" when LE has been sparse with real information.

As to the quotes about Kyron's enthusiasm, many of us can be wildly enthusiastic about anything until it involves public speaking or having to perform in front of an audience. I know many people who are quite animated in their opinions until they have to stand up and address a large group. I wonder how many here would happily go on stage much less a child.

Being enthusiastic and having stage fright are not mutually exclusive.

That said, I not believe Kyron was the architect of his own disappearance over stage fright or anything else. That is my opinion only, of course. And, until we know more, I suppose we can only nuture our own views, whatever they might be.

Wandering outside with kids at 8:45-9:00 is not architecting his disappearance over stage fright. It is being a kid like the other kids whose morning routine was changed slightly so that they stretched the limits and went outside to see a flower bed. That is what I understand BeanE's theory to be...that Kyron could have been one of the kids who went outside to look at the flowers. She calls them the "flowerbed kids". As for stage fright, I don't quite buy into that. I would believe more that anything which could cast doubt onto Terri is amplified and thrown out there for others to make their own opinions up about it, with absolutely no support for Terri offered, so that one's conclusion is drawn that Terri lied to everyone about Kyron's being in the talent show and look at how suspicious she is.

My guess is that for 2 minutes max, very few parents thought it was worth their time to get back up to the school mid-day and see it.

 

[BeanE]

8 a.m. Skyline Elementary, 11536 N.W. Skyline Blvd., opens early so students and parents can tour the science fair. A billboard outside reads: "June 4, I.B. Inquiry Expo, 8-10, Talent show, 1-2:45." Kyron was to take part in both the expo/science fair and the talent show.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_chronology_of_eve.html

Nora Schreiber, a Skyline parent and volunteer, said the school has three main entrances and one secure exit. Two of the doorways are near the main office and are monitored, while a third on the north side of the school is not. Kyron's classroom is adjacent to that door, which opens onto a rear parking lot.

Schreiber said she and her son, J, 9, were interviewed Sunday by a federal agent. She said she told the agent that Friday was an especially hectic day at Skyline.

"On a normal day, seeing a stranger will make you go, 'Hmm. I wonder who that is?' On such a hectic day as Friday, there was such a lot going on. To tell you the truth, I was focused on looking at the (science) project and helping Jacob fill out his (evaluation) form and not on the faces around me."

Schreiber said Kyron was supposed to perform in the school's talent show at 1 p.m. but she didn't see him there.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/still_no_trace_of_kyron_horman.html

So, why do we have the difference in reports? Very confusing.

What we have is two or 3 parents saying Kyron was supposed to be in the talent show (and Kaine and Desiree saying no).

Where would those few parents get that info? I'd imagine from their kids.

Where would those kids get that info? I'd imagine from Kyron.

I think a scenario in which Kaine, Terri, and Desiree made a collective decision that Kyron's efforts and time (and Kaine and Terri's) would be better put toward the more academic science fair project is reasonable. I think it's also reasonable that as Kyron participated in conversations with other kids about the talent show, that with his enthusiasm for all things school-related, he wanted to be in it, and may have even told them he would be in it. ("I'll ask my parents again!"). Hence the info goes from Kyron >>> other kids >>> other kids' parents that he'd be in it, and explain why the few other parents thought he was going to be in it, but that Kaine/Terri/Desiree thought not.

 

[BeanE]

I don't have a theory yet. Wish I did.

Thanks,
BeanE

 

[Kat010]

Wandering outside with kids at 8:45-9:00 is not architecting his disappearance over stage fright. It is being a kid like the other kids whose morning routine was changed slightly so that they stretched the limits and went outside to see a flower bed. That is what I understand BeanE's theory to be...that Kyron could have been one of the kids who went outside to look at the flowers. She calls them the "flowerbed kids". As for stage fright, I don't quite buy into that. I would believe more that anything which could cast doubt onto Terri is amplified and thrown out there for others to make their own opinions up about it, with absolutely no support for Terri offered, so that one's conclusion is drawn that Terri lied to everyone about Kyron's being in the talent show and look at how suspicious she is.

My guess is that for 2 minutes max, very few parents thought it was worth their time to get back up to the school mid-day and see it.

I suspect that the talent show wasn't really a big deal. I think the science fair was the big deal. And given that it was a Friday, and near the end of school, the teachers knew they'd have a school full of really excited kids--with a lot of energy. No chance of getting serious academic work done that afternoon.

So, they held a talent show. Nothing major, just a fun thing for kids to do. A great way to have a party atmosphere, encourage participation, have fun, and let the kids burn off their "high" from the exciting day.

Maybe there was a group thing in his class for the talent show. Maybe not. Maybe a couple of his friends saying "let's....x". And kids changing their minds. It sounds to me like a fairly loose event, which would be natural on that kind of busy, exciting day, with guests in the morning for the science fair.

So I don't see attendance at the talent show by any parent as a big deal either way. I remember a talent show from my elementary school days which had kids changing their minds right up to "stage" time. And without parents. So I don't see the talent show as a major thing in whatever happened to Kyron, whether he wandered outside and was snatched, was snatched inside, or...whatever happened. Because he was already gone by that time, as far as I can conclude from what I've read so far.

The bbm part: I agree. I think that if this is a case of proving how "right" a person or group of persons is by amplifying data of any kind that the focus on Kyron gets lost. To me, I just want the facts, and there are precious few.

To get facts, I have to look at things on the large scale, and pick up and sift over the small things. Hold them up in different lighting. For me, that's what the discussion here helps. I still haven't assigned guilt to anyone for Kyron's disappearance, and I just want plain unvarnished facts, large and snippets both. There's no profit, for me at least, in being "right" about who I believe did or did not take Kyron. The loss of Kyron is too great, IMHO. The loss of any child is too great.

I just want them to find Kyron, and whoever is guilty, and have enough evidence to prove their case beyond any reasonable doubt.

 

[debs]

The fly in the ointment here seems to be why was Ms Schreiber there in the afternoon for the talent show if it was just a fun thing to do?

 

[Kat010]

The fly in the ointment here seems to be why was Ms Schreiber there in the afternoon for the talent show if it was just a fun thing to do?

Hmm. Good question. I dunno. Was her child in the talent show? And wasn't she president of the PTA?***see ETA**** Can't remember, sorry. And maybe if both things are true, she just decided to stay on. Maybe did some PTA stuff in the office during the day?

Just speculating.

I scrolled back up after writing this and found out she's a parent and a volunteer. Maybe it was a full day for volunteers that day? I also noticed that she described the day as "especially hectic." I know we've talked before about TH's email statement that the science fair opening time was chaotic, and so I find Mrs. S's characterization matching TH's morning impression. (Note: I'm not going to parse "hectic" vs. "chaotic"!)

So we have a busy, hectic day, with lots of activities, and guests (meaning anyone not a teacher, staff member or student) coming and going, and some amount of volunteers, and a situation in which one child is missing for a fully day despite a worried friend reporting that he was gone. Lots to think about in terms of what could have happened on that day. I'm still not sure that all those id'd, at least by kids, as "volunteers" were that, nor am I still not sure that strangers didn't come in just to see the science fair (maybe at least one for other, awful reasons), or that everyone at the school that day in an official capacity didn't have hidden problems, or that someone wasn't loitering outside the school to see if they could grab a child, or even if all the parents are "OK", or if there was any bullying of Kyron going on, or enticing him outside as a simple "prank" that then exposed him to someone.

So many possibilities.

BeanE, if you get a working theory, let me know where you found it. I've got several, but none of them quite all fit perfectly at this time. ;}

 

[Donjeta]

Desiree and Kaine on the talent show

Desiree: There's been some rumor that he was supposed to be in a talent show. I don't really know if that's credible.

Kaine: Yeah. We, we were, we didn't have any information that led us to believe that initially, but (shakes head negatively) we've heard some things since then, so we're not certain.

http://www.kgw.com/video?id=97177194&sec=547977

These are very non-committal things to say, verbal shrugs, "we don't really know one way or another". IMO if they had made a collective decision that Kyron was not supposed to be in the show they wouldn't be speaking like this. They'd say "we had decided he wouldn't be in the show" or "He wasn't supposed to be in the talent show", not "we didn't have any information that led us to believe that initially", or "I don't really know if that's credible", IMO. These sound like they're depending on people outside the family for their information, not like they've taken an active role in decision making.

Editing to add that Desiree talks about a talent show, not the talent show like most people here do, which makes it sound like this is not something that she had given lots of thought to.

 

[Billylee]

I agree with you Donjeta, from KH & DY's remarks it sounds they were clueless about the talent show, and had heard nothing about it from Kyron or TH. Doesn't mean he wasn't supposed to be in it. IIRC, there was a sign-up sheet for the talent show and a rehearsal prior to the day, I think the day before, but I can't remember. So if Ms. Shreiber knew he was supposed to be in the talent show, she probably knew he was signed up to be there, for all we know she was in charge of the sign ups?
There's also the woman from across the street at the church, Coghill? who said Kyron was supposed to be in the talent show, which has always bugged me, because I'd like to know how SHE knew that? Wasn't there another mother who said Kyron was supppsed to do something WITH her son in the talent show also or did I just read it that way? And also, just to comment, we have no idea whether TH knew whether or not Kyron was to be in the talent show, as we haven't heard a word from her.

Call me nuts, but I don't think Kyron looks like a shy boy, not from his school pictures anyway. He looks proud and standing tall in front of his projects and even Kaine says he was enthusiastic about school, most genuinely shy children don't like school, for exactly that reason, the times you have to stand up and talk in front of everyone.

 

[i.b.nora]

The fly in the ointment here seems to be why was Ms Schreiber there in the afternoon for the talent show if it was just a fun thing to do?

I have a feeling she is probably at the school alot. She runs a business out of the church across the street.

 

[Deleted member 718]

Curious and curiouser.

11:10 a.m. -- Vickie Coghill, a 35-year resident of Portland's Skyline area, pointed to the billboard outside the school, which reads "June 4, I.B. Inquiry Expo, 8-10, Talent show, 1-2:45." Kyron was to take part in both the expo/science fair and the talent show, Coghill said.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/day_three_search_continues_hun.html


On Sunday, hours agents and officers interviewed parents and students who attended a science fair and talent show on Friday, searchers worked into the night. They faced challenging terrain and steady rain, which complicated the effort and quickly wore out searchers, said Sgt. Diana Olsen, coordinator of the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office search and rescue operation.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/ground_search_resumes_this_mor.html

Why would they interview parents and students about the talent show if Kyron wasn't involved with it?

 

[Counting on Justice]

Forgive me if this has already been brought up, but wouldn't there be a sign-up sheet for the talent show? I have an 8 yr old and when her school was putting on a talent show, the students had to sign up for it. Wouldn't the school have a written record as to which students were to be in the talent show?

 

[BeanE]

I would think that if Kyron had been signed up on a sheet to participate in the talent show, someone would have mentioned it to Desiree or Kaine somewhere in the 20 days between June 4 when Kyron went missing, and June 25 when that interview took place. Maybe not though.

 

[Donjeta]

Call me nuts, but I don't think Kyron looks like a shy boy, not from his school pictures anyway. He looks proud and standing tall in front of his projects and even Kaine says he was enthusiastic about school, most genuinely shy children don't like school, for exactly that reason, the times you have to stand up and talk in front of everyone.

I think there are several kinds of shy/timid that aren't always all-inclusive. A child who is, say, scared of venturing far from his home because he can't see very well or because something scary happened to him once or because he's been taught that something scary might happen to him if he does etc. might or might not be scared of attention and talking in front of people and a child who is scared of performing in front of crowds might be quite courageous and adventurous when playing outside.

 

[SurfieTX]

I would think that if Kyron had been signed up on a sheet to participate in the talent show, someone would have mentioned it to Desiree or Kaine somewhere in the 20 days between June 4 when Kyron went missing, and June 25 when that interview took place. Maybe not though.

Apparently, someone from the school talked with the parents that night or the next day because in Terri's emails (If we are to believe them), she stated that Ms. Porter thought she was taking Kyron with baby K to the appointment. Terri had to get that information from somewhere. Whomever it was talking with the parents would have mentioned the talent show too, I would think.

 

[Etilema]

I would think that if Kyron had been signed up on a sheet to participate in the talent show, someone would have mentioned it to Desiree or Kaine somewhere in the 20 days between June 4 when Kyron went missing, and June 25 when that interview took place. Maybe not though.

Sometimes Kaine and Desiree seem to give evasive answers that I think (MOO) are because they have been asked not to reveal certain things to the media. I base this on times when they seemed similarly uncertain, then when pressed said that they weren't able to talk about the particular topic. If I recall correctly, they used similar wording in at least one other case ("we've heard such-and-such").

In other words, the fact that Kaine and Desiree said there was a "rumor" and they are "uncertain" does not necessarily mean that they were not given specific information by the school and/or police by that time. It could just be that they didn't want to provide the details to the public.

JMO

 

[debs]

There is a video of Kyron giving a report about a bridge, and in it, he is very animated and interested in the topic, interested in conveying it to his audience, and very much comfortable being in front of people.

 

[Billylee]

This is out there in cached cyber space, unfortunately the original document link is gone. (I believe one of the things the school removed from their website.) I pulled this off another for forum website, but, as you can see, there was a sign up sheet for what I believe is the 2009 talent show (because of the dates), so I'd assume that there was one for 2010 also.

http://skylineelementary.org/files/5_26_09issue.pdf

I don't know if this was posted but I think it shows the talent show was open to the public and each child had 2 minutes on stage. It was also on the same sign as the science fair.

This is a quote from the newsletter about the talent show, so

"Any Skyline student can sign up to share their talent during this entire week. Talent Show previews will be held in the gym during recess on Thursday and Friday. June 5th is the day of the talent show. Acts must sign up and have their act approved during the previews in order to perform in the show. We welcome any and all talents that are appropriate for K-8th grade students. Acts will be limited to 2 minutes or less in order to make sure we get through the talent show in a reasonable amount of time. If you have any questions, please see Mr. Keefer."

 

[debs]

So then there would have been some sort of program made to show an order of acts. That's pretty standard. I guess parents would have picked that up at the gym when they arrived around 1 to watch.

But by 1:00, Kyron had been marked absent and had been missing for at least 4 hours.

 

[Counting on Justice]

So then there would have been some sort of program made to show an order of acts. That's pretty standard. I guess parents would have picked that up at the gym when they arrived around 1 to watch.

But by 1:00, Kyron had been marked absent and had been missing for at least 4 hours.

Has anyone seen a program for the talent show or has it been published anywhere?raying: