The Talent show

[joshiesmom]

Just a thought here --

Let's think about her "alibi". The grocery store - I don't get service inside mine. Driving around on rural roads - might not have service there, either. The gym - wouldn't have her phone on her. Maybe her planned "alibi" was in order to be able to say she wasn't able to answer. Plus, since Desiree and Kaine were the emergency contacts, they'd be called. Then, they'd have to try to reach TH.

I don't understand the point you're making in response to my comment.

I was responding to the person who postulated the theory that Terri might not have thought she needed an entire day of alibi because she expected to get a call from the school telling her Kyron was missing. I said that if that were true, then that would not give her much time to have taken Kyron from the school, gotten rid of him in whatever manner, covered up the evidence & then establish her alibi by showing up at the grocery store/bank/anywhere else she was seen.

Your comment that she wouldn't have had cell service and therefore could have plausibly denied getting a call doesn't make sense to me as a response to my post, though I will say it does blow further holes in the postulated theory I was responding to. If Terri was expecting to get a phone call from the school in order to enable her to "play" the "concerned parent," then I think she would have gone to places where she knew her cell reception would work perfectly and she'd be able to get a call.

And even though Desiree & Kaine were the biological parents, I would expect Terri to be listed as an emergency contact since Kyron lived with her. Is there a link stating only Kaine & Desiree were emergency contacts and therefore Terri would not have been called in an emergency relating to Kyron at the school?

The whole theory is moot, actually, since Skyline didn't have a policy of calling parents to report an absent child prior to Kyron's disappearance, so Terri would not have been expecting a phone call to launch her into 'concerned parent mode'.

 

[human]

Are we sure that the science project sat on the desk he was using that day? Or that any of the science projects sat on desks the kids were using that day? Could the science fair projects have been clustered into one area away from the class-in-session area? Didn't I see some round tables being used in the classroom with kids at them in older photos?

As for criticizing a teacher--I don't see how saying that a teacher is "new" is a criticism. If she's new, she's new. And if she has a hearing problem, then she has a hearing problem (which we don't actually know, either way).

But were anyone to actually criticize the teacher, well, she's a public employee. As my old editor used to say, anyone who feeds at the public trough answers to those who provide the $.

It's not out of line for a parent to criticize a teacher. Or another teacher. Or a tax payer. It goes with the job, and every teacher knows that they are literally "on stage" and will have to deal with parents and public perceptions.

I actually have what is considered to be the equivalent of a dual degree. Because my university wasn't yet fully accredited to *officially* issue journalism degrees (but it was an excellent program and at that point, most of us already had experience from home town papers or working as stringers), they also told us to fulfill the requirements for another degree. Mine is in education. I've done months of intern teaching at the high school level, have taught college-level courses (writing) and also have taught in adult ed, including one class almost totally made up of kids in trouble from bad homes to armed robbery, and written state-mandated curriculum as a consultant. (Horrible task, never again.)

I never doubted for a second that at any point soemone could have a beef with me. Not that they did--other than my supervising internship teacher, who came up with something bogus. Her complaint shocked everyone. So the university's intern advisor got curious, and started checking her out, and then wondered why she never stayed at any one school very long. Turned out that she wanted an advanced degree, and so got interns. She basically then turned the class over to the intern (as she had with me) and disappeared for the term, only showing up to wave now and then. At the end of the term, she consistently showed up and issued some sort of complaint in the evaluation in order to "prove" that she'd been monitoring and evaluating all along. In my case, because I looked so young and I got along well with the kids and actually had improved their grades and levels, she complained that I was too "immature" to teach kids that old, as evidenced by my looks and the fact that the kids liked and respected me (and hated her). And oh yea, she also without warning handed out one test that wasn't even based on what I'd taught, but what she dredged up, assigned a huge weight, and knocked every kid down at least one grade level, taking away the achievements that rightfully made them feel good.

What a piece of work she was. She never again was allowed to have an intern--at least from our university. But due to tenure she couldn't be fired--although I was told that she was being "encouraged" to take early retirement.

So I learned early on that if you teach, you will be criticized, and sometimes very unfairly. Truthfully, I loved teaching (still do) but hated the paperwork and irrelevant stuff that distracted from the actual subject.

Bottom line: if someone had said "Well, she's an intern" about me they might have said it dismissingly, but it would have been fact. The connotation of their statement would be open to personal interpretation by the hearer.

And if your child is involved, IMHO, you have not only an extra right, but a responsibility, to praise or critize the teacher, aides, principal, school facilities, or whatever affects your child. JMO. (FYI, when the nutso teacher tried to do her number on me, both students and parents lined up to speak out for me. Parents *should* be involved. A good teacher welcomes that.)

!. The teacher was not new. She has been there since at least 2008 according to the school website

2. I am so THANKFUL I am not in the classroom anymore. I am so thankful that in 30 years no children had an accident . I was worried everyday.

 

[AbbieNormal]

Nagging is "abuse" now?

I would consider continual b*tching at a kid to be emotional abuse. I am sure I did it to mine, don;t remember. But it was like "herding cats" at some points.

Lets get real, times have changed. I had a social worker tell me around 1996 hitting your child (even a spanking or small swat on the bottom) was physical abuse, yelling at them, or demeaning them ("don;t be so dumb", etc), was verbal abuse, and that grounding them or taking something away from them was emotional abuse. She was stone serious. One of my kids had threatened to call social services (as a teenager)if I did so and so and I said well you just go right ahead. She did and the social worker showed up. We had quite a conversation. She told me the above, and I said well you may as well remove all 3 kids from my care because this is MY house and MY rules and they WILL follow them. I WILL yell, ground them, and do as I see fit. I then asked her if SHE had any kids and she said no. I said well then you have NO CLUE what you're talking about and unless you have plans to take this child out of my house, I suggest you leave. So she did.

 

[human]

BBM:
1. We don't know whether Terri asked for the truck; we're only told she did.

2. Is there something somewhere which confirms that the SF projects were supposed to be cleared from the room at 10? Or is it because the school day began at 10 that day with the earlier hours filled with parents wandering around looking at the projects?

3. I can't imagine why Kaine, having been home at 1:45, didn't go to the school and pick up Kyron himself, seeing as how the truck was at home when he was, and there's obviously no sign of the science fair around the house (because it was still at the school). If Kyron wasn't supposed to be on that bus, why would his father go to meet it? If Terri was supposed to pick up Kyron and project at school, why didn't that alarm go off in his head? He seemed to indicate he knew Terri was going to pick up that project that day but didn't think it was so odd that she didn't. I can't quite get past why, if he thought his child and that project were going to be picked up, he would choose to walk with his daughter to the bus stop.

why would he not assume that the project had been picked up already and brought home by Terri as she said she was going to do?

We are focused on the project because it is THE day. Otherwise, what's the big deal about it?

If Kaine had said, "Terri, did you pick up that project?" , to me it would sound like he was a cotroller checking up on her day and her skills.

He just trusted that she does what she says that she is going to do.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

BBM:
1. We don't know whether Terri asked for the truck; we're only told she did.

Snipped --

True, but everything we "know" is from what we've been told. The only thing that is for sure is that Kyron is missing. Really, most things we ever "know" is going off what we're told. I'm not sure why Kaine would lie about that, though.

 

[joshiesmom]

No one has any proof of any sort that Terri abused Kyron in any way. I think it is wrong to even speculate that he was being abused since there is no evidence of that whatsoever. If I'm wrong, and there is a legitimate link describing the abuse Terri perpetuated against Kyron, then please direct me to it and I will retract this statement.

Also, I don't think a stay-at-home-mom is obligated to attend a talent show just because she can. Maybe Terri didn't want to sit through a bunch of performances to watch a 2-minute skit. Maybe she didn't want to corral baby K for an hour. Maybe she had a headache and decided she'd rather stay home or go to the gym or talk on the phone or play on the computer than sit through a bunch of children showcasing their talent at school. I'm a SAHM and I don't fault a mother for not wanting to sit through a talent show.

I doubt every SAHM of that school attended the talent show. It doesn't make a woman a bad mother for not being there, IMO, and yes, that includes Terri.

MOO.

 

[human]

Perhaps baby's fussiness kept her from staying until 10 and taking home the project.

Perhaps baby's naptime kept her from attending the talent show.

My son was a well-known (locally) child actor, and I attended every performance and every rehearsal and every audition he ever did. I have no other child, and no job, so it was quite easy for me to do that. Many of the other "stage mothers" had additional responsibilities (kids, jobs), so they missed most of what went on. For the most part, I would never wake up a sleeping baby or toddler, regardless of the reason.

And if all 300 Skyline kids attended, plus staff, there was likely not much room for parents to attend. The fire marshal used to go to our back-to-school nights to ensure there weren't too many people in the cafegymatorium.

I could agree with you on this, except she brought the baby to the gym and the baby was playing in another room when Kaine got home.

 

[KariKae]

Am I the only one who finds it surprising that Kyron was in a talent show? His parents keep describing how quiet and timid he was. I don't get the impression he was a "ham". He just doesn't strike me as the type of kid who would volunteer for a talent show. He strikes me as the type of kid who would have a great time watching a talent show.

 

[human]

I understand what is being said here and it sounds plausible, but the bbm part brings up a question/new thought for me.

If she didn't think she'd need an entire day of alibi because she expected Kyron to be noticed missing & for her to get a call from the school, that didn't give her a lot of time to take him from the school, do whatever she had planned to Kyron & still make it to the grocery stores to get her alibi in place prior to when she would have (according to this theory) expected to receive a phone call. It is a tight window of time to get Kyron out of the school after being seen with him inside the school (thus marking a time she was there) and then get rid of him and all evidence and THEN get to the grocery stores to establish her alibi before she would have expected to receive a phone call telling her that Kyron was missing and she could have "sprung into concerned parent mode" (at which point she would have been expected to show up at the school and therefore whatever she had planned to do to Kyron needed to be completed before she anticipated receiving that call).

I'm sure it can be done, but since it seems the general consensus is that Terri isn't very smart, I have to wonder how she could have pulled this off and not leave any evidence behind (physical evidence, anyway).

Couldn't she have done something in the 90 minutes of missing time?

There is no reason in the world that she couldn't have given him something to knock him out and put him on the floor of the backseat with a blanket or her gym stuff on top of him. No one would be the wiser.

 

[pugglesworth]

I would consider continual b*tching at a kid to be emotional abuse. I am sure I did it to mine, don;t remember. But it was like "herding cats" at some points.

Lets get real, times have changed. I had a social worker tell me around 1996 hitting your child (even a spanking or small swat on the bottom) was physical abuse, yelling at them, or demeaning them ("don;t be so dumb", etc), was verbal abuse, and that grounding them or taking something away from them was emotional abuse. She was stone serious. One of my kids had threatened to call social services (as a teenager)if I did so and so and I said well you just go right ahead. She did and the social worker showed up. We had quite a conversation. She told me the above, and I said well you may as well remove all 3 kids from my care because this is MY house and MY rules and they WILL follow them. I WILL yell, ground them, and do as I see fit. I then asked her if SHE had any kids and she said no. I said well then you have NO CLUE what you're talking about and unless you have plans to take this child out of my house, I suggest you leave. So she did.

With all due respect, I don't doubt that you had that conversation, but I don't think it's typical. Because of my academic field I am friends with quite a few people who work in child services and counseling. None of them would consider any of those things "abuse" or grounds to remove a child or even necessarily follow up with a family, unless there were other factors as well. Perhaps the worker you spoke with was a bit "off," or perhaps the system was different in that area at that time, but it is generally accepted that spanking with a hand (and not leaving a mark), verbal reprimands, "time-outs," and confiscating items are all still considered perfectly within a parent's rights in any jurisdiction I am familiar with.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

I don't understand the point you're making in response to my comment.

I was responding to the person who postulated the theory that Terri might not have thought she needed an entire day of alibi because she expected to get a call from the school telling her Kyron was missing. I said that if that were true, then that would not give her much time to have taken Kyron from the school, gotten rid of him in whatever manner, covered up the evidence & then establish her alibi by showing up at the grocery store/bank/anywhere else she was seen.

Your comment that she wouldn't have had cell service and therefore could have plausibly denied getting a call doesn't make sense to me as a response to my post, though I will say it does blow further holes in the postulated theory I was responding to. If Terri was expecting to get a phone call from the school in order to enable her to "play" the "concerned parent," then I think she would have gone to places where she knew her cell reception would work perfectly and she'd be able to get a call.

And even though Desiree & Kaine were the biological parents, I would expect Terri to be listed as an emergency contact since Kyron lived with her. Is there a link stating only Kaine & Desiree were emergency contacts and therefore Terri would not have been called in an emergency relating to Kyron at the school?

The whole theory is moot, actually, since Skyline didn't have a policy of calling parents to report an absent child prior to Kyron's disappearance, so Terri would not have been expecting a phone call to launch her into 'concerned parent mode'.

Sorry for any confusion --

I was going off both yours and the post you commented on. The thought maybe she would have been expecting a call and if she would have had enough time to do what she did before said call would have come in. My thought is that maybe she purposely placed herself where *if* she received a call, she could deny it, giving her longer. So, if the school/Kaine called looking for Kyron, she could later say she didn't get the call. Then, not only would it stall the whole "Kyron is missing" process, but it would tip her off.

Regarding the emergency contact thing, I'm pretty sure the school secretary and possibly someone else stated Desiree was the emergency contact after Kaine. I could be wrong, though.

Also, on a side note and not meant to be rude, IMO, Kyron was not absent that day. Kyron was at school and then suddenly gone. I'm hoping the teacher had good reason not to be alarmed, like maybe TH leading her to believe Kyron had a dr appt. So, IF TH was involved and did take Kyron away from the school, I would think she would be expecting a call since he was at school, seen by his teachers, and then gone.

 

[debs]

Sorry for any confusion --

I was going off both yours and the post you commented on. The thought maybe she would have been expecting a call and if she would have had enough time to do what she did before said call would have come in. My thought is that maybe she purposely placed herself where *if* she received a call, she could deny it, giving her longer. So, if the school/Kaine called looking for Kyron, she could later say she didn't get the call. Then, not only would it stall the whole "Kyron is missing" process, but it would tip her off.

Regarding the emergency contact thing, I'm pretty sure the school secretary and possibly someone else stated Desiree was the emergency contact after Kaine. I could be wrong, though.

Also, on a side note and not meant to be rude, IMO, Kyron was not absent that day. Kyron was at school and then suddenly gone. I'm hoping the teacher had good reason not to be alarmed, like maybe TH leading her to believe Kyron had a dr appt. So, IF TH was involved and did take Kyron away from the school, I would think she would be expecting a call since he was at school, seen by his teachers, and then gone.

Desiree herself stated she was listed as emergency contact, which is why the school called her.

 

[AbbieNormal]

With all due respect, I don't doubt that you had that conversation, but I don't think it's typical. Because of my academic field I am friends with quite a few people who work in child services and counseling. None of them would consider any of those things "abuse" or grounds to remove a child or even necessarily follow up with a family, unless there were other factors as well. Perhaps the worker you spoke with was a bit "off," or perhaps the system was different in that area at that time, but it is generally accepted that spanking with a hand (and not leaving a mark), verbal reprimands, "time-outs," and confiscating items are all still considered perfectly within a parent's rights in any jurisdiction I am familiar with.

Oh, I totally agree! I thought she was completely nuts when she made that statement to me. Thats why I invited her to take ALL of my kids or leave, especially when I found out she had no kids of her own therefore had no clue what it was like to be a day-to-day mom, only knowledge she had was her "schooling". It was like that in my county then, dunno what its like now.
Kids were informed at school on a regular basis their "rights" and were told to call social services if they felt their parents were violating their "rights". It was ridiculous.
Just for the record I continued to be the same mother I always was prior to her silly visit. I think I was a normal mom, not abusive.

I do consider it emotional abuse, tho, when a kid is singled out and constantly berated, put down, denied simple things, etc. Not saying Terri did this, just saying I think its not cool to treat a kid like that. That all.

 

[gliving]

Do elementary schools still have recess? TIA

I was thinking with all the focus on the science project, it would be terrible if Kyron forgot something needed for the talent skit.

 

[wondering1]

Couldn't she have done something in the 90 minutes of missing time?

There is no reason in the world that she couldn't have given him something to knock him out and put him on the floor of the backseat with a blanket or her gym stuff on top of him. No one would be the wiser.

This is such a disgusting question I've avoided asking it up until now. But this post made me think of it again, so I'll ask. How long does a person have to be deceased in a location, like a vehicle, before you would get forensic evidence of a death or a scent for a cadaver dog. I would think it would be immediate. I know that's different than what you are saying.

 

[justathought]

I keep wondering since Kaine said that they (the parents, steps, etc.) didn't know about the talent show if Kyron didn't want to be in it. Of course, we don't have a clear picture of what his role was to be but here the talent shows are big deals, the moms are way involved, and the acts are previewed prior to inclusion....so, if he hadn't mentioned it, maybe he didn't want to do it. Maybe he was trying to figure out a way to avoid it. Maybe he saw a way to leave the school undetected, and then something unanticipated happened.......maybe that's why they're searching the area...thinking he might have wandered away....if the phones were purchased innocently, doesn't seem likely they would have been thrown away.................maybe the friends wanted to speculate but didn't want every word recorded by LE.

 

[BeanE]

Question. Previously we had reports in which parents said there was a talent show Kyron was supposed to be in. Now we have this... report in which a parent says there was a talent show Kyron was supposed to be in.

What's the difference?

TIA

ETA: Noting the thread title 'confirmed'

 

[cluciano63]

Until and unless proved otherwise, the talent show has no meaning for me...

 

[JustToSeeYouSmile]

This is such a disgusting question I've avoided asking it up until now. But this post made me think of it again, so I'll ask. How long does a person have to be deceased in a location, like a vehicle, before you would get forensic evidence of a death or a scent for a cadaver dog. I would think it would be immediate. I know that's different than what you are saying.

Roughly four minutes.
But HRD dogs are not usually brought out until much later.

 

[joshiesmom]

Couldn't she have done something in the 90 minutes of missing time?

There is no reason in the world that she couldn't have given him something to knock him out and put him on the floor of the backseat with a blanket or her gym stuff on top of him. No one would be the wiser.

Does their truck have a backseat? I haven't looked closely, so I don't know.