The Talent show

[Calliope]

I don't think they're the ones depending on those particular rumors.

What I meant was, they are framing their answers from rumors they've heard, rather than facts from the source.

 

[just]

What I meant was, they are framing their answers from rumors they've heard, rather than facts from the source.

I'm with ya Calliope, and I think collectively we can all agree on one thing - there have been vague answers and a non-urgency that is super weirdo-mungo to me from the get go - from KH saying at the 'team player' presser (and in no way shape or form am I criticizing any reaction he, TY or DY have had ever - I think they're amazing people) but at that presser it was like he was thanking everyone for helping out as if Kyron was gone, they tried to find him, and oh well. Defeat is what I sensed so early on. Now...that doesn't mean that was his intention, but the tone was odd.

And it is also mucho weirdo-mungo to me that they may not know every detail of every moment of Ky's last day at school, from the sandwich in his backpack to the talent show info. Sooooo, logic would state they know alot more than we do and are told to please be quiet -- or -- they're so grief stricken and overwhelmed they can only focus on breathing and making it through another day. Wish they had a good spokesperson for them, though, like a publicist to help shield them and answer questions with a firm 'we're not talking about that' or actually answering the question.

 

[SmoothOperator]

What I meant was, they are framing their answers from rumors they've heard, rather than facts from the source.

IMO it is just the opposite.. They seem to NOT "be framing their answers from rumors they've heard", rather are determining a source "credible" before framing an answer..
Desiree says as much in the quote below..

snip~

Desiree: Uh, there's been some rumor that he was supposed to be in a talent show. I don't really know if that's credible.

end snip~

 

[Calliope]

And then Kaine: Yeah, we......we were, we didn't have any information that lead us to believe that initially, but we've heard some things since then, but...so, we're not certain.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

From the June 25 interview on KGW (at about the 9:45 mark)
http://www.kgw.com/video?id=97177194&sec=547977

So, this makes me wonder as I said upthread somewhere, if maybe TH told them he was to be in the talent show only AFTER Kyron went missing; not before, because she didn't want them there.

Who else would make up a "rumor" that Kyron was to be in the talent show and who else wouldn't Desiree believe?

Just noodlin' around.

Makes total sense to me. Most parents try to make performances like that. A talent show is not the same as the science fair, since Kaine could see the tree frog exhibit at home but a performance is a one-time thing.

Were parents invited to the talent show? That might make a difference, because if it was "student only," then the argument wouldn't have much weight. And why wouldn't LE clarify the talent show issue for the parents? As in, "according to the teacher, Kyron was supposed to be in a talent show at X o'clock. What do you know about that?" LE had to have asked all of them hundreds of such questions.

 

[Donjeta]

As pointed out on another thread, the school policy was that the student be signed out. And yet he obviously wasn't. I'd not only like to know when Kyron was marked absent but what if any notations to that were made about him leaving the school premises (i.e. "stepmom took him out for appt").

CYA. Just sayin'.

He was never signed in either. Are teachers expected to routinely make notations about children who don't show up for their first class activity, other than "absent"?

 

[BeanE]

He was never signed in either. Are teachers expected to routinely make notations about children who don't show up for their first class activity, other than "absent"?

I have to keep asking about the children who arrived on buses approx 8:30. The final bell was at 8:45. The science fair activities were from 8 till 10.

Based on that, what time did school start for the children who arrived on buses? Were they on their own from 8:30 until 10? Anyone could have taken any one of them out of the school during that time without checking out at the office?

I just can't make this make sense to me.

 

[32beatspersecond]

:waitasec::dance: Love that run-on!

I'm still not understanding how TH got near Jim Kelley's house at 3 PM when she met the bus around that time with KH. Now DSS's brother has a white truck too (or cousin?) could be related, could not be related at all. And so the mystery continues...

I've mentioned the brothers truck a couple of times but noone seems to think it sticks...I thought maybe dede had borrowed her brothers truck because of the garden tour on the 5th..setting up and detailing things. wasn't she also moving to a new place around that time? could have needed the truck for that? the garden tour was a big deal. I think it was featured in Garden Design Magazine.

 

[BeanE]

After almost 20 pages with almost 500 posts, I think we have come to the definite conclusion that the talent show may or may not matter.

 

[BeanE]

I've mentioned the brothers truck a couple of times but noone seems to think it sticks...I thought maybe dede had borrowed her brothers truck because of the garden tour on the 5th..setting up and detailing things. wasn't she also moving to a new place around that time? could have needed the truck for that? the garden tour was a big deal. I think it was featured in Garden Design Magazine.

I think people are trying not to go off topic in this thread, 32beats. Try this thread about the white truck at the Kelley home area:

Neighbor and eyewitness Jim Kelley - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[Barry]

I have a real problem with that. He should have had an appointed advocate present as it is allowed by law.

ITA, this is real problematic for me. There's no way I would let my son go into something like that on his own.

 

[Donjeta]

I have to keep asking about the children who arrived on buses approx 8:30. The final bell was at 8:45. The science fair activities were from 8 till 10.

Based on that, what time did school start for the children who arrived on buses? Were they on their own from 8:30 until 10? Anyone could have taken any one of them out of the school during that time without checking out at the office?

I just can't make this make sense to me.

Why would the children in the buses have been on their own until 10 and not included in the chaperoned tours that started after the final bell at 8:45 am?

I don't know about Skyline but in my son's school there are adults meeting the school bus and even though there is no official roll call at that point they are expected to look after them enough to make sure that nobody wanders away. IMO once the children have entered the school bus the immediate responsibility for their safety is transferred from the parents to the driver who is supposed to keep track how many children there are in the bus. Once the bus stops at the school the responsibility is shifted to the school staff. If a parent puts their children in the bus and decides to run off with them before school starts anyway IMO the school staff should be notified because having been on the bus and seen exiting it creates a definite expectation that the child is at school.

But if a child visits the school grounds before school starts with a parent the responsible party is still the parent IMO. If they see school staff it could create the expectation that the child is going to be at the school for the first lesson, but not if the parent says they're going to leave for a doctor's appointment. IMO it comes down to what Terri really said.

IMO the only significance that I can see for the talent show is if Terri is somehow the origin of the rumors that Kyron was going to be performing there, to strengthen the perception that he was expected to be at school the whole day. But I suppose that's out if that one child meant that he and Kyron were going to do a talent number together (as opposed to doing two different numbers in the same show) since I presume he would know who he was gonna perform with.

If it was a stranger abduction I don't think the talent show matters because I think he was long gone before the talent show and I can't factor it in the abductor's plans.

I don't believe that Kyron ran away because he was scared of the show since I understand it was voluntary. His parents weren't forcing him to attend so if he was scared he would simply not have signed up to perform.

 

[BeanE]

Why would the children in the buses have been on their own until 10 and not included in the chaperoned tours that started after the final bell at 8:45 am?

I don't know about Skyline but in my son's school there are adults meeting the school bus and even though there is no official roll call at that point they are expected to look after them enough to make sure that nobody wanders away. IMO once the children have entered the school bus the immediate responsibility for their safety is transferred from the parents to the driver who is supposed to keep track how many children there are in the bus. Once the bus stops at the school the responsibility is shifted to the school staff. If a parent puts their children in the bus and decides to run off with them before school starts anyway IMO the school staff should be notified because having been on the bus and seen exiting it creates a definite expectation that the child is at school.

But if a child visits the school grounds before school starts with a parent the responsible party is still the parent IMO. If they see school staff it could create the expectation that the child is going to be at the school for the first lesson, but not if the parent says they're going to leave for a doctor's appointment. IMO it comes down to what Terri really said.

To me, as soon as a child steps off a bus, as soon as a child walking to the school steps onto school grounds, as soon as a parent turns to leave the school, the school takes over responsibility, and the child, if there is a checkout procedure, needs to be signed out.

The thing I'm not understanding is why the children who arrived on buses needed to be signed out, but Kyron didn't. The children from the buses weren't checked into class between bus arrival at approx 8:30 and the final bell at 8:45. I see a sameness between their situation and Kyron's that I can't resolve. I can't find a reason that seems okay with me that any of these children wouldn't have to be signed out if they had a dr appt.

Maybe I'm just dense in my old age, Donjeta, but I just can't see it. Thanks for trying to help me though. :blowkiss:

 

[debs]

BeanE, the only obvious point I can add to that is that if a child has a Dr's appointment that close to the start of school, they wouldn't get on the bus at all.

The situation with Kyron is that, IF Terri told someone she was taking Kyron to the Dr, she would not have to sign him out before 8:45, the standard start time for school that day and every day. But the point that is made in Terri's defense is that the 8:45 bell rang and she ended her tour with Kyron along the hallway to his class, waving to him as she was exiting the school. Using that theory, she had "checked him into school" at least tacitly, but the teacher did not "officially" check him into school. In fact, the story seems to be that at 10:00, when and only after the groups had been organized with teachers and volunteers to go to the other rooms to look at classes and then back to their home rooms for the remainder of the school day, was Kyron ever checked absent, at the same time I assume all other children not present in the classroom at the time Ms Porter took roll, were marked.

 

[Donjeta]

To me, as soon as a child steps off a bus, as soon as a child walking to the school steps onto school grounds, as soon as a parent turns to leave the school, the school takes over responsibility, and the child, if there is a checkout procedure, needs to be signed out.

The thing I'm not understanding is why the children who arrived on buses needed to be signed out, but Kyron didn't. The children from the buses weren't checked into class between bus arrival at approx 8:30 and the final bell at 8:45. I see a sameness between their situation and Kyron's that I can't resolve. I can't find a reason that seems okay with me that any of these children wouldn't have to be signed out if they had a dr appt.

Maybe I'm just dense in my old age, Donjeta, but I just can't see it. Thanks for trying to help me though. :blowkiss:

Well, if it makes you feel any better (it might actually make you feel worse) I'm not sure if the children in the school bus would have been treated any different if one of them had gone missing between 8:30 and 8:45. Unless there was a procedure for checking up the names of the children entering and exiting the school bus and the children showing up for the chaperoned tours at 8:45 or unless the teacher was there to meet the bus and took special notice of the child who was to disappear I think any of them might just have been marked absent as well, and no phone call would have ensued.

If there is such a check up list of the school bus kids and the teachers use it it might be different but is there?

ETA: I do believe that even if the official roll call was at 10 the adults would have been aware of who was there and who wasn't, when organizing the groups.

 

[liz b.]

It's only a few minutes from the Horman home to Kelley home area where the white truck was seen. A few minutes as in single digits - I can't remember exactly how many, but it's posted somewhere within the depths of the forum.

The truck was sighted at 3. The scheduled bus drop-off time (I posted the bus schedule herein) is 3:21, and they didn't go to the bus stop until about 3:30.

There was time for the Horman truck to go from the Horman home to the Kelley home area and back in time for the bus.

Interesting on a couple of fronts. Presumably KH would have been aware of TH leaving at 3pm in the truck ? And then returning ? Also, and forgive me if this has been written about before : if the bus dropped the children off at the bus stop at 3 :21, why did the Horman's not get there til 3 ;30 ? School buses do not normally wait at a stop,in my experience. IIRC, isn't it a long,winding pathway from the Horman's home to the bus stop ? They would have had plenty of time to be waiting at the bus stop at 3 :21....


All JMO

 

[Donjeta]

Interesting on a couple of fronts. Presumably KH would have been aware of TH leaving at 3pm in the truck ? And then returning ? Also, and forgive me if this has been written about before : if the bus dropped the children off at the bus stop at 3 :21, why did the Horman's not get there til 3 ;30 ? School buses do not normally wait at a stop,in my experience. IIRC, isn't it a long,winding pathway from the Horman's home to the bus stop ? They would have had plenty of time to be waiting at the bus stop at 3 :21....


All JMO

They may have left home at 3:30 and not have gotten there until 3:35 pm. Maybe the bus schedule or Kaine's watch is off a bit?

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2010/07/06/kyron-horman-family-q-a/

Was Kaine waiting at the bus stop for Kyron to get off of the school bus?
Yes I was. I walked K*** down to the bus stop about 3:35 with Terri following close after we left. We all arrived down at the bus stop together and waited as the bus came to the stop.

Was Kaine working from home the day Kyron went missing? If so, when did Terri get home from the school?
No, I was in the office that day until about 1:45 and arrived back home a little after 2pm. Terri was already in the house, on her laptop, when I arrived. I kissed K***, grabbed some food, and worked from my home office until about 3:30 at which time I put shoes on K*** and we started walking down toward the bus stop.

Trying to connect this to the talent show somehow... OK so Kaine could have caught the last hour of the talent show according to this schedule if he thought Kyron was gonna be there.

 

[debs]

*snipped by me to address your added comment

ETA: I do believe that even if the official roll call was at 10 the adults would have been aware of who was there and who wasn't, when organizing the groups.

PRECISELY! Which then makes me wonder why the majority of people seem to want to discard the word of TWO people over the later word of the Teacher.

The Child relays a conversation he was a party to, where he says the volunteer asked where Kyron was, and the teacher calmed the volunteer down with "he's probably just in the bathroom."

Then you take Terri's statement:
Terri: I left him heading toward his classroom.

Until it became apparent that the teacher had let her attention get divided and just didn't follow up on something, then grasped onto the only thing she could to explain why Kyron wasn't there, wasn't checked out. Terri must have taken him to a Dr's appointment.

And that's what has stuck. The word of the child relaying what was said in the classroom regarding the adult interchange between the teacher and the volunteer has been thrown out. The word of Terri is never believed by most.

The teacher, who at the moment she discovers that Kyron isn't just in the bathroom or with his mom, needs to cover her butt. And she throws out the Dr excuse ...........but it suits her, not Terri.

 

[liz b.]

One other question about the Talent Show ; where was it to have been held ? In the gym ? But, weren't there IB Science Fair exhibits already in the gym ? So, how could an audience of kids,staff and parents have also been in the gym ?

All JMO

 

[overtherainbow]

The scheduled bus stop for the current year at the Horman house is 3:31. Maybe that is closer to the time the bus would stopped on June 4th if changes were made to the route during the course of the 09-10 school year.


ETA - sorry o/t. the bus stop was mentioned up thread and there was mention of getting to the stop about 10 minutes late and I just wanted to mention that the stop time may have changed.