The Verdict - Do you agree or disagree? #3

[mimmy03]

Once the remains site was manipulated by RK, Animals feeding, and TS Fay, no way can you absolutely say where that duct tape originated.

The only thing I can say about the mandible debate is that plant growth could have held it in place.

Honestly, I really want to know more about this piece of evidence. When they say still held in place, does that mean still attached? or just that the skull and mandible were together in correct anatomical position?

How did RK manipulate the crime scene? From what I recall he poked the skull with his stick to get a better look at what it was he was seeing. The duct tape originated from the Anthony garage and was found across the skull/face of Caylee Anthony.

 

[pcrum12]

I thought all this had already been refuted?

absence of blowflies in the trunk (most of the blowfly remains were found near Caylee).So this proves she was in the trunk how?
science about the "death band" on the hair is not without controversy (expert testified that he had never seen a hair with the "death band" that came from an alive person).Expert also tesified that she could not say that the banding absolutely means death
air testing is also controversial (agree)
FBI report on air test state result does NOT mean HUMAN decomposition (They are also the ones that destroyed and contaminated evidence)agree - fingerprints on tape and disappearing outline of a sticker
NO evidence that Caylee had ever been drugged when her hair was tested (chloroform does not show up in the hair).
Roy Kronk's testimony that he moved the skull (which makes it even more amazing the mandible was still in place).I really want more info on the mandible. I really haven't grasped exactley what they mean by still in place. I need to research this more to get a better understanding. However, plant growth could have also held it in place per expect testimony
Choroform search 1 time in March - same time frame as RM posting (I thought it was determined the search "how to make chloroform" was made in June but, if it was indeed March, not surprising that she would get the idea from RM posting the pic on myspace.)

definitely March and imo not such a stretch for her to look it up once. And, the time span on that search was what, 3 minutes?

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I am not nor have I ever stated that GA was molesting KC when Caylee drowned. Ever. I believe IMO that KC is a victim of incest which explains her dissociative state and how/why she would cover up an accidental drowning.

No, incest does not cause dissociative states. Incest does not cause the kind of behavior FCA engaged in. Correlation is NOT causation. That is incorrect nonsense.

 

[grandmaj]

There was no evidence presented that George Anthony did anything to Casey ever. None. Not one date mentioned not one piece of evidence presented. George Anthony went along with the game so that his daughter would be free in my opinion. Not because of guilt but because he and Cindy early on destroyed evidence and continued to lie for their daughter.

If George Anthony was responsible for any part of what happened to Caylee why in heaven's name would he in the early stages of the investigation beg Casey and work with LE for her to meet with them and tell what happened? He implored her to speak to someone who she trusted, FBI or whomever. That is not the advice of someone who is trying to implicate his daughter.

And, I don't believe at all he molested Casey, but just hypothetical......... 3 years behind bars and she never once asked to set the record straight? NO one could touch Casey Anthony in jail. NO one. If George had done something to Caylee why in the world would Casey not speak up? She was in PC and she would have been protected from him.

Common sense was left in the hotel where the jury worried about hockey and basketball, where socially it appears the foreman became Johnny Depp, where the jurors were demanding steak and Italian meals.

Casey and Casey alone benefited form Caylee no longer being a burden. And while I do not believe it was a Capital case they surely had enough evidence with Casey's own actions of abandoning the car that she admitted stunk, the way she acted in the next 31 days, the lies, and the total fabrication of a kidnapping, enough evidence using common sense for a lessor charge. None of this, NONE of it is normal or is it indicative of wanting LE to find your daughter.

 

[pcrum12]

How did RK manipulate the crime scene? From what I recall he poked the skull with his stick to get a better look at what it was he was seeing. The duct tape originated from the Anthony garage and was found across the skull/face of Caylee Anthony.

There is no dispute by me that the tape belonged to the Anthonys. The tape was attached to hair on one side and laying (not adhered to) across the face. Rk gave a different story every time he was questioned including on the stand at the trial. He stated that when he poked his stick in the eye socket he pivoted the skull to get a better look. He also stated that he picked the bag up waist high. He also stated that the skull rolled out of the bag. Hard to figure out where that tape originated IMO.

 

[mimmy03]

If George Anthony was responsible for any part of what happened to Caylee why in heaven's name would he in the early stages of the investigation beg Casey and work with LE for her to meet with them and tell what happened? He implored her to speak to someone who she trusted, FBI or whomever. That is not the advice of someone who is trying to implicate his daughter.

EXACTLY! He wouldn't encourage her to talk to the authorities b/c it would risk her cracking under the detective's pressure and the truth of his involvement would come out and give him away. That would be stupid. He's a cop and if he were involved he would have told her not to talk to the police and tell her to lawyer up.

 

[cuppy199]

definitely March and imo not such a stretch for her to look it up once. And, the time span on that search was what, 3 minutes?

How long exactly does it take to search it ? Three minutes is more then enough time to find and open the page. Enough time to open and leave the page open and write down what you want. And if she was just looking at it like you suggest it still seem hinky that it was found to be in the trunk of her car . That is more then coincidence:twocents:

 

[pcrum12]

No, incest does not cause dissociative states. Incest does not cause the kind of behavior FCA engaged in. Correlation is NOT causation. That is incorrect nonsense.

Common Symptoms in Adult Survivors of Childhood Sexual Abuse:

Physical Presentations
Chronic pelvic pain
Gastrointestinal symptoms/distress
Musculoskeletal complaints
Obesity, eating disorders
Insomnia, sleep disorders
Pseudocyesis
Sexual dysfunction
Asthma, respiratory ailments
Addiction
Chronic headache
Chronic back pain
Psychologic and Behavioral Presentations
Depression and anxiety
Posttraumatic stress disorder symptoms
Dissociative states
Repeated self-injury
Suicide attempts
Lying, stealing, truancy, running away
Poor contraceptive practices
Compulsive sexual behaviors
Sexual dysfunction
Somatizing disorders
Eating disorders
Poor adherence to medical recommendations
Intolerance of or constant search for intimacy
Expectation of early death


Although there is no single syndrome that is universally present in adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse, there is an extensive body of research that documents adverse short- and long-term effects of such abuse. To appropriately treat and manage survivors of CSA, it is useful to understand that survivors' symptoms or behavioral sequelae often represent coping strategies employed in response to abnormal, traumatic events. These coping mechanisms are used for protection during the abuse or later to guard against feelings of overwhelming helplessness and terror. Although some of these coping strategies may eventually lead to health problems, if symptoms are evaluated outside their original context, survivors may be misdiagnosed or mislabeled

http://www.aaets.org/article120.htm

 

[Aedrys]

About mandibles:

Think about it. What is left to to hold the mandible in place after all muscle and tissue are gone? Nothing. This is why a lot of times when a skull is found, the mandible isn't found with it. I've actually seen fake skulls, and screws are used to hold the mandible in place on them because nothing else is there to hold the mandible onto the skull. This proves that the tape wasn't just laying there, didn't float downstream, but was attached to Caylee's skull and holding the mandible in place. Otherwise, it would have floated out of the bag and been found elsewhere. It wasn't. After a tropical storm and flood conditions, the mandible was still in place on the skull. And no, the hair can't hold it there either. Only the duct tape could hold it there and have it stay on Caylee's skull the way it did.

 

[grandmaj]

How long exactly does it take to search it ? Three minutes is more then enough time to find and open the page. Enough time to open and leave the page open and write down what you want. And if she was just looking at it like you suggest it still seem hinky that it was found to be in the trunk of her car . That is more then coincidence:twocents:

3 minutes? I can print a document in less time than that.

 

[mimmy03]

The tape was attached to hair on one side and laying (not adhered to) across the face.

I recall only hearing about how there was duct tape across the face and embedded in the hair. You make it sound as though the duct tape just happened to be lying across the face and attached only to the hair. I have yet to see an unblurred photo of the body so I'm only going by what I've heard. But let's say what you say is true. WHY is there duct tape from the Anthony's home in Caylee's hair?

 

[Aedrys]

Common Symptoms in Adult Survivors of Childhood Sexual Abuse:

Physical Presentations
Chronic pelvic pain
Gastrointestinal symptoms/distress
Musculoskeletal complaints
Obesity, eating disorders
Insomnia, sleep disorders
Pseudocyesis
Sexual dysfunction
Asthma, respiratory ailments
Addiction
Chronic headache
Chronic back pain
Psychologic and Behavioral Presentations
Depression and anxiety
Posttraumatic stress disorder symptoms
Dissociative states
Repeated self-injury
Suicide attempts
Lying, stealing, truancy, running away
Poor contraceptive practices
Compulsive sexual behaviors
Sexual dysfunction
Somatizing disorders
Eating disorders
Poor adherence to medical recommendations
Intolerance of or constant search for intimacy
Expectation of early death


Although there is no single syndrome that is universally present in adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse, there is an extensive body of research that documents adverse short- and long-term effects of such abuse. To appropriately treat and manage survivors of CSA, it is useful to understand that survivors' symptoms or behavioral sequelae often represent coping strategies employed in response to abnormal, traumatic events. These coping mechanisms are used for protection during the abuse or later to guard against feelings of overwhelming helplessness and terror. Although some of these coping strategies may eventually lead to health problems, if symptoms are evaluated outside their original context, survivors may be misdiagnosed or mislabeled

http://www.aaets.org/article120.htm

Those are symptoms only. Unless I see a psychological or psychiatric report that says Casey was diagnosed by a professional as being a sexual abuse or incest survivor, I am not believing she was ever sexually abused by George or Lee. The DT didn't even have a psychologist or psychiatrist testify to this in court at any time. Anyone can have any of these symptoms for a variety of reasons. I probably fit in about three or four of these symptoms myself, and I was never sexually abused.

 

[pcrum12]

How long exactly does it take to search it ? Three minutes is more then enough time to find and open the page. Enough time to open and leave the page open and write down what you want. And if she was just looking at it like you suggest it still seem hinky that it was found to be in the trunk of her car . That is more then coincidence:twocents:

Everyone is entitled to that opinion and I respect that. However I do not agree that there was high levels of chloroform in the trunk. JMO

 

[pcrum12]

About mandibles:

Think about it. What is left to to hold the mandible in place after all muscle and tissue are gone? Nothing. This is why a lot of times when a skull is found, the mandible isn't found with it. I've actually seen fake skulls, and screws are used to hold the mandible in place on them because nothing else is there to hold the mandible onto the skull. This proves that the tape wasn't just laying there, didn't float downstream, but was attached to Caylee's skull and holding the mandible in place. Otherwise, it would have floated out of the bag and been found elsewhere. It wasn't. After a tropical storm and flood conditions, the mandible was still in place on the skull. And no, the hair can't hold it there either. Only the duct tape could hold it there and have it stay on Caylee's skull the way it did.

I appreciate you trying to explain that to me. I understand that minus muscle and tissue, mandible is loose. However, I still don't understand? Hear me out. PT theory is that tape is place on skin over mouth nose. Body decomposes, meaning (sorry graphic) wet and gooey. How then can this tape still be holding mandible in place? No way is this wet gooey tape going to stick and hold anything. What am I missing?

 

[pcrum12]

3 minutes? I can print a document in less time than that.

pure speculation. No evidence that she printed it.

 

[grandmaj]

Common Symptoms in Adult Survivors of Childhood Sexual Abuse:

Physical Presentations
Chronic pelvic pain
Gastrointestinal symptoms/distress
Musculoskeletal complaints
Obesity, eating disorders
Insomnia, sleep disorders
Pseudocyesis
Sexual dysfunction
Asthma, respiratory ailments
Addiction
Chronic headache
Chronic back pain
Psychologic and Behavioral Presentations
Depression and anxiety
Posttraumatic stress disorder symptoms
Dissociative states
Repeated self-injury
Suicide attempts
Lying, stealing, truancy, running away
Poor contraceptive practices
Compulsive sexual behaviors
Sexual dysfunction
Somatizing disorders
Eating disorders
Poor adherence to medical recommendations
Intolerance of or constant search for intimacy
Expectation of early death


Although there is no single syndrome that is universally present in adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse, there is an extensive body of research that documents adverse short- and long-term effects of such abuse. To appropriately treat and manage survivors of CSA, it is useful to understand that survivors' symptoms or behavioral sequelae often represent coping strategies employed in response to abnormal, traumatic events. These coping mechanisms are used for protection during the abuse or later to guard against feelings of overwhelming helplessness and terror. Although some of these coping strategies may eventually lead to health problems, if symptoms are evaluated outside their original context, survivors may be misdiagnosed or mislabeled

http://www.aaets.org/article120.htm

The same symptoms could be associated with many other disorders or health issues. There was not one psychiatric expert witness who testified to any sexual abuse diagnosis nor any other disorder. There were some on the defense list and dropped. Gotta wonder why......

Without evidence in a court of law that this happened, it cannot be considered as determining guilty or not guilty. EVIDENCE.

 

[pcrum12]

I recall only hearing about how there was duct tape across the face and embedded in the hair. You make it sound as though the duct tape just happened to be lying across the face and attached only to the hair. I have yet to see an unblurred photo of the body so I'm only going by what I've heard. But let's say what you say is true. WHY is there duct tape from the Anthony's home in Caylee's hair?

It was using in closing the bag? Packaging? If you read the autopsy and review trial - my description of the tape is correct.

 

[grandmaj]

I am not nor have I ever stated that GA was molesting KC when Caylee drowned. Ever. I believe IMO that KC is a victim of incest which explains her dissociative state and how/why she would cover up an accidental drowning.

And this is pure speculation with not one shred of evidence presented at trial.

 

[annalia]

pure speculation. No evidence that she printed it.

And what is accusing GA of sexual abuse and being complicit in the death of his grand daughter?

 

[Aedrys]

I appreciate you trying to explain that to me. I understand that minus muscle and tissue, mandible is loose. However, I still don't understand? Hear me out. PT theory is that tape is place on skin over mouth nose. Body decomposes, meaning (sorry graphic) wet and gooey. How then can this tape still be holding mandible in place? No way is this wet gooey tape going to stick and hold anything. What am I missing?

I think Duct Tape sticks to just about anything. And remember, that tropical storm didn't happen until September or October, I think. That's a lot of time to sit in a dry place, under the Florida heat. I'm thinking liquids evaporated, and the tape remained firmly stuck to her hair, which kept it firmly stuck over Caylee's skeletal face as well. The key here is that the duct tape remained stuck to her hair, which kept it on the skull. Since the hair only pooled around the base after the tissue and muscle was gone, it kept the tape over the skull. The hair is key here. If there was no hair to keep the duct tape there, it would have come off.