The Verdict - Do you agree or disagree? #3

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  • #181
So your having the duct tape falling off the canvas bag and then sticking to Caylees hair?

:waitasec: It must have unstickied :ohoh: ,floated around until it was EXACTLY across Caylee's skull :balloon: ,and re-stickied :doh: ,but only on each end :stretch: ,so that it became attached to her hair.:froggie:
 
  • #182
:waitasec: It must have unstickied :ohoh: ,floated around until it was EXACTLY across Caylee's skull :balloon: ,and re-stickied :doh: ,but only on each end :stretch: ,so that it became attached to her hair.:froggie:
Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.Because there is no way the mother of that child put that tape on Caylees face. Ya right.
 
  • #183
Could have been applied by others that ALSO had access to the tape. Could have been applied to the bags and not Caylee. Could have been applied after an accidental death. lying, LE decieving, fake call getting, phone losing, resume padding, rape crying, check stealing does not prove murder. IMO.

I believe you said "bags" here, not CANVAS bag.

Maybe she was curious of why her boyfriend would post a picture of someone chloroforming a girl. Maybe she thought he might try to do that to her.

LOL........she can drive around with it in her car but, she can't take the chance that her boyfriend might try to use it on HER. It doesn't matter what anyone believes, guilty or not guilty. I choose to believe what I do because of the evidence while others choose to come up with their own scenarios to base their decision on. To each their own. Go for it if you believe it but, when the day comes that the truth is finally revealed, well, I'll just leave it at that...........

Bella Vita KC
Bless you little Caylee.
 
  • #184
Only other people with access to the duct tape were George and cindy. You already said you don't think George did it and Cindy would not have called LE so your statement makes no sense.

The tapes were small strips that over lapped in a pattern that would not make sense if you were taping a canvas bag

Finally, if you were staging a kiddnapping, wouldn't you actually report the kiddnapping to police?

I can't even respond to the dead animal comparison. Loving mothers don't do do that Ever. JC duggard was abused beyond belief but her number one goal was to protect her children from their father.

My words are getting twisted in your comment. First, I don't believe there was a MURDER. So therefore, no I don't believe GA Murdered Caylee. That doesn't mean I don't believe GA is involved in a cover up of an accident.
 
  • #185
This is the old tried and true "rush to judgement" defense. If only LE had done a better job the "REAL KILLER" would have been brought to justice.Oh, I forgot, it was only an accident.

BBM: Yes If LE had actually searched the closest first available wooded area to the Anthony home in July. If LE had actually searched the remain site when RK called the findings in in August. If LE had thoroughly investigated the one person who gave statement that Caylee left with Casey by at least pulling his phone records AND pings. If LE had thoroughly investigated the one person to FIND the remains by at least pulling his phone records AND pings. Then --- none of us would be here debating the questions we still have no definative answers to. All MOO.
 
  • #186
When "Reasonable Doubt" suits some it becomes their reason for voting FCA not guilty.
They believe that the DT didn't have to "prove" FCA was not guilty, yet refused to accept the evidence submitted by the Prosecutors. That "Reasonable Doubt" reminds me of some removable scotch tape I own ~ it won't continue to stick should I choose to remove it. There was no proof of an accidental drowning, therefore why wasn't that DT theory treated with "Reasonable Doubt"? Why would the jury believe that FCA would sit in a jail cell for three years if she was not guilty of causing the death of Caylee Marie. Where was the "Reasonable Doubt"? No proof that GA ever sexually molested FCA, but the jury choose to believe it, with their "Unreasonable Doubt".
Without any doubt, I believe that this jury did not use reason when they provided their verdict.
IMO
 
  • #187
My words are getting twisted in your comment. First, I don't believe there was a MURDER. So therefore, no I don't believe GA Murdered Caylee. That doesn't mean I don't believe GA is involved in a cover up of an accident.

Sorry, not trying to misrepresent your words. :seeya:
 
  • #188
BBM: Yes If LE had actually searched the closest first available wooded area to the Anthony home in July. If LE had actually searched the remain site when RK called the findings in in August. If LE had thoroughly investigated the one person who gave statement that Caylee left with Casey by at least pulling his phone records AND pings. If LE had thoroughly investigated the one person to FIND the remains by at least pulling his phone records AND pings. Then --- none of us would be here debating the questions we still have no definative answers to. All MOO.

We would have the answers if it had been an accident.
 
  • #189
I was going to compare these same multiple and varied symptoms of sexual abuse to the DT "experts" theory that grieving can run the gamut from anything and everything but you did it first, Horace! it does get very exhausting to me to read through these posts about the NG verdict, IMO, MOO, etc.
Besides...the jury wasn't to address any sexual abuse as there was NO evidence of it.
 
  • #190
Not if the tape was used to secure the CANVAS bag.

Im very interested in hearing what the purpose would be to put duct tape on the canvas bag?
 
  • #191
BBM: Yes If LE had actually searched the closest first available wooded area to the Anthony home in July. If LE had actually searched the remain site when RK called the findings in in August. If LE had thoroughly investigated the one person who gave statement that Caylee left with Casey by at least pulling his phone records AND pings. If LE had thoroughly investigated the one person to FIND the remains by at least pulling his phone records AND pings. Then --- none of us would be here debating the questions we still have no definative answers to. All MOO.

So George and Roy Kronk's phone records hold the key to the truth.Interesting thought.It is a shame poor Caylees remains were not found sooner.Where dose the fault lay. LE or Casey. I 'll leave it at that.
 
  • #192
pure speculation. No evidence that she printed it.
There is evidence of the input "how-to-make-chloroform". What need would there be for that? If you're interested in knowing..."what-is-chloroform"...then you'd type that in. I never heard or saw evidence of that. Why would a person need to know about household weapons...especially a 22 year old? It's scary what Casey was looking at...shouldn't she have been out playing with Caylee...the good mother that she was?
 
  • #193
When "Reasonable Doubt" suits some it becomes their reason for voting FCA not guilty.
They believe that the DT didn't have to "prove" FCA was not guilty, yet refused to accept the evidence submitted by the Prosecutors. That "Reasonable Doubt" reminds me of some removable scotch tape I own ~ it won't continue to stick should I choose to remove it. There was no proof of an accidental drowning, therefore why wasn't that DT theory treated with "Reasonable Doubt"? Why would the jury believe that FCA would sit in a jail cell for three years if she was not guilty of causing the death of Caylee Marie. Where was the "Reasonable Doubt"? No proof that GA ever sexually molested FCA, but the jury choose to believe it, with their "Unreasonable Doubt".
Without any doubt, I believe that this jury did not use reason when they provided their verdict.
IMO
The verdict still mystifies me. I totally agree...there wasn't any reason brought to this jury's deliberation.
 
  • #194
BBM: Yes If LE had actually searched the closest first available wooded area to the Anthony home in July. If LE had actually searched the remain site when RK called the findings in in August. If LE had thoroughly investigated the one person who gave statement that Caylee left with Casey by at least pulling his phone records AND pings. If LE had thoroughly investigated the one person to FIND the remains by at least pulling his phone records AND pings. Then --- none of us would be here debating the questions we still have no definative answers to. All MOO.

Oh, I forgot to ask. Why didn't the defense subpoena these records?I can give a pro defense response.The defense is not required to prove anything. That's the states job.Also the defense has much smaller resources compared to the State.
 
  • #195
My words are getting twisted in your comment. First, I don't believe there was a MURDER. So therefore, no I don't believe GA Murdered Caylee. That doesn't mean I don't believe GA is involved in a cover up of an accident.
If that were really to be true...wouldn't Baez have mentioned such in his OS? He kinda left everything hang...and then threw RK into the mix...pick up-drop off, etc. If it was an accident and George covered it up...why didn't Casey testify to that? That would have cleared everything up real quick.
 
  • #196
I believe the state made several mistakes in the way they presented their CIC. In the OS, LDB went through 31 days, over 2 hours worth of basically saying you must hate KC, she is evil. What mother would lie day after day about the whereabouts of her child to her own mother. Where was Caylee? ETC. ETC. ETC. Then she spent a lot less time on the other evidence than she did on the 31 days. I think the jury after the states OS knew BARD that KC was a liar, but wondered why the state would spend so much time proving what a despicable person she was, and so little time with other evidence.

The state had GA as its first witness, possibly to dispell any doubt about GA from the DT's OS. JA asked GA if he had ever molested his daughter, and GA looked down, hestitated and then answered NO. To me, right from this point, it looked as if GA was not being truthful. GA very well could have been being truthful, but if his actions were perceived by the jury as he may be lying, this would hurt the states case, and I believe this is what happened. Later GA was combative and elusive, as well as argumentative with JB. The Jury felt GA was not a credible witness, and again, I believe this hurt the states case.

The next group of witnesses following GA, all were KC's friends, and although they said she was at Fusions etc., they all said she seemed to have a good relationship with Caylee, and seemed to be a good mother. I know many murdering moms seem to be good mothers, but this was a direct contrast to the first couple hours of opening statements from the PT. I do not think this group of witnesses helped the states case at all, and in fact I believe it hurt the states case. The state spent a lot of time on KC's behavior, days and days, and even though the forensics were complex, they spent as much time on KC's behavior as they did on forensics, or very nearly as much time. The state showed all those jailhouse videos, which were all a month after Caylee had died. I wondered how were these tapes relevant to proving the murder of Caylee. It was obvious from OS that KC was a liar, and her friends said she was out with them, the jailhouse tapes may have just made the jury wonder where is the evidence to prove KC murdered Caylee? I believe the state went into overkill on the lies, the parties, and the bad behavior, and they did this because it was their strongest evidence, however, it does not prove KC murdered Caylee BARD.

The state finally brought in its experts, and I believe that between the cross examinations by the defense and the defense's own experts, could have ended up a tie, if not for a few things, like the FBI inadvertantly getting DNA on the duct tape, the unidentified allele 17, JA and AV making a mistake on the smell can, YM misspeaking, the lack of DNA and Decomp fluid in the carpet, and the 84 times. This being a case where the outcome could mean someones death, the jurors had to consider that if the state made mistakes like these, what other mistakes were made?

I also believe, that when JA was laughing at both the OS and CS of JB, that this hurt the states case. Why, it had nothing to do with the evidence you might say, but I disagree, I think it had everything to do with it. By laughing at what JB was saying, JA was undermining what JB was saying, and by extension, was depriving KC of her rights to a fair trial. It was plain and simple contempt of court, and could have influenced the jurors. It was also against HHJP's courtroom policies. JA was absolutely in the wrong with that disrespectful behavior.

The biggest mistake I believe the state made was when JA said "we can only hope the chloroform was used before the duct tape was applied, so Caylee didn't suffer." I believe the state realized it had pushed the hate KC agenda too far, and was actually trying to humanize her just a little, or at the very least, show that the state was compassionate and hoped Caylee didn't suffer. The reason I believe this was the biggest mistake made by the state, is because this simple sentence proved the state had no idea what really happened to Caylee. Regardless of what you think of the dt's performance throughout the trial, JB pounced on this tidbit and drove it home with the Mack truck HHJP was so fond of talking about. Personally, that one statement by JA would have been enough for me to find KC NG on count 1.

I totally agree with the verdict.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.
 
  • #197
*respectfully snipped*

Given that we don't know them personally I don't think we can infer anything about their silence beyond it is their absolute right and choice not to speak publicly as given to them under the law and as instructed by Judge Perry before their final dismissal.

The public have no right under the law to know about their decision or the deliberations.
...and I agree...they should remain quiet...'cause the little we have heard has been enough. I personally don't need to hear any more of their bs explanations.
 
  • #198
I believe the state made several mistakes in the way they presented their CIC. In the OS, LDB went through 31 days, over 2 hours worth of basically saying you must hate KC, she is evil. What mother would lie day after day about the whereabouts of her child to her own mother. Where was Caylee? ETC. ETC. ETC. Then she spent a lot less time on the other evidence than she did on the 31 days. I think the jury after the states OS knew BARD that KC was a liar, but wondered why the state would spend so much time proving what a despicable person she was, and so little time with other evidence.

The state had GA as its first witness, possibly to dispell any doubt about GA from the DT's OS. JA asked GA if he had ever molested his daughter, and GA looked down, hestitated and then answered NO. To me, right from this point, it looked as if GA was not being truthful. GA very well could have been being truthful, but if his actions were perceived by the jury as he may be lying, this would hurt the states case, and I believe this is what happened. Later GA was combative and elusive, as well as argumentative with JB. The Jury felt GA was not a credible witness, and again, I believe this hurt the states case.

The next group of witnesses following GA, all were KC's friends, and although they said she was at Fusions etc., they all said she seemed to have a good relationship with Caylee, and seemed to be a good mother. I know many murdering moms seem to be good mothers, but this was a direct contrast to the first couple hours of opening statements from the PT. I do not think this group of witnesses helped the states case at all, and in fact I believe it hurt the states case. The state spent a lot of time on KC's behavior, days and days, and even though the forensics were complex, they spent as much time on KC's behavior as they did on forensics, or very nearly as much time. The state showed all those jailhouse videos, which were all a month after Caylee had died. I wondered how were these tapes relevant to proving the murder of Caylee. It was obvious from OS that KC was a liar, and her friends said she was out with them, the jailhouse tapes may have just made the jury wonder where is the evidence to prove KC murdered Caylee? I believe the state went into overkill on the lies, the parties, and the bad behavior, and they did this because it was their strongest evidence, however, it does not prove KC murdered Caylee BARD.

The state finally brought in its experts, and I believe that between the cross examinations by the defense and the defense's own experts, could have ended up a tie, if not for a few things, like the FBI inadvertantly getting DNA on the duct tape, the unidentified allele 17, JA and AV making a mistake on the smell can, YM misspeaking, the lack of DNA and Decomp fluid in the carpet, and the 84 times. This being a case where the outcome could mean someones death, the jurors had to consider that if the state made mistakes like these, what other mistakes were made?

I also believe, that when JA was laughing at both the OS and CS of JB, that this hurt the states case. Why, it had nothing to do with the evidence you might say, but I disagree, I think it had everything to do with it. By laughing at what JB was saying, JA was undermining what JB was saying, and by extension, was depriving KC of her rights to a fair trial. It was plain and simple contempt of court, and could have influenced the jurors. It was also against HHJP's courtroom policies. JA was absolutely in the wrong with that disrespectful behavior.

The biggest mistake I believe the state made was when JA said "we can only hope the chloroform was used before the duct tape was applied, so Caylee didn't suffer." I believe the state realized it had pushed the hate KC agenda too far, and was actually trying to humanize her just a little, or at the very least, show that the state was compassionate and hoped Caylee didn't suffer. The reason I believe this was the biggest mistake made by the state, is because this simple sentence proved the state had no idea what really happened to Caylee. Regardless of what you think of the dt's performance throughout the trial, JB pounced on this tidbit and drove it home with the Mack truck HHJP was so fond of talking about. Personally, that one statement by JA would have been enough for me to find KC NG on count 1.

I totally agree with the verdict.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.
I wish I could believe that the jury gave this as much thought as you did...but nope don't believe it.
Just curious though...what do you think the jury thought of Baez's antics?
 
  • #199
I believe the state made several mistakes in the way they presented their CIC. In the OS, LDB went through 31 days, over 2 hours worth of basically saying you must hate KC, she is evil. What mother would lie day after day about the whereabouts of her child to her own mother. Where was Caylee? ETC. ETC. ETC. Then she spent a lot less time on the other evidence than she did on the 31 days. I think the jury after the states OS knew BARD that KC was a liar, but wondered why the state would spend so much time proving what a despicable person she was, and so little time with other evidence.

The state had GA as its first witness, possibly to dispell any doubt about GA from the DT's OS. JA asked GA if he had ever molested his daughter, and GA looked down, hestitated and then answered NO. To me, right from this point, it looked as if GA was not being truthful. GA very well could have been being truthful, but if his actions were perceived by the jury as he may be lying, this would hurt the states case, and I believe this is what happened. Later GA was combative and elusive, as well as argumentative with JB. The Jury felt GA was not a credible witness, and again, I believe this hurt the states case.

The next group of witnesses following GA, all were KC's friends, and although they said she was at Fusions etc., they all said she seemed to have a good relationship with Caylee, and seemed to be a good mother. I know many murdering moms seem to be good mothers, but this was a direct contrast to the first couple hours of opening statements from the PT. I do not think this group of witnesses helped the states case at all, and in fact I believe it hurt the states case. The state spent a lot of time on KC's behavior, days and days, and even though the forensics were complex, they spent as much time on KC's behavior as they did on forensics, or very nearly as much time. The state showed all those jailhouse videos, which were all a month after Caylee had died. I wondered how were these tapes relevant to proving the murder of Caylee. It was obvious from OS that KC was a liar, and her friends said she was out with them, the jailhouse tapes may have just made the jury wonder where is the evidence to prove KC murdered Caylee? I believe the state went into overkill on the lies, the parties, and the bad behavior, and they did this because it was their strongest evidence, however, it does not prove KC murdered Caylee BARD.

The state finally brought in its experts, and I believe that between the cross examinations by the defense and the defense's own experts, could have ended up a tie, if not for a few things, like the FBI inadvertantly getting DNA on the duct tape, the unidentified allele 17, JA and AV making a mistake on the smell can, YM misspeaking, the lack of DNA and Decomp fluid in the carpet, and the 84 times. This being a case where the outcome could mean someones death, the jurors had to consider that if the state made mistakes like these, what other mistakes were made?

I also believe, that when JA was laughing at both the OS and CS of JB, that this hurt the states case. Why, it had nothing to do with the evidence you might say, but I disagree, I think it had everything to do with it. By laughing at what JB was saying, JA was undermining what JB was saying, and by extension, was depriving KC of her rights to a fair trial. It was plain and simple contempt of court, and could have influenced the jurors. It was also against HHJP's courtroom policies. JA was absolutely in the wrong with that disrespectful behavior.

The biggest mistake I believe the state made was when JA said "we can only hope the chloroform was used before the duct tape was applied, so Caylee didn't suffer." I believe the state realized it had pushed the hate KC agenda too far, and was actually trying to humanize her just a little, or at the very least, show that the state was compassionate and hoped Caylee didn't suffer. The reason I believe this was the biggest mistake made by the state, is because this simple sentence proved the state had no idea what really happened to Caylee. Regardless of what you think of the dt's performance throughout the trial, JB pounced on this tidbit and drove it home with the Mack truck HHJP was so fond of talking about. Personally, that one statement by JA would have been enough for me to find KC NG on count 1.

I totally agree with the verdict.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

Thanks for your post. I see you believe the state did a poor job in this case.I disagree. Were they perfect? No. But I think they did a good job. MOO.
 
  • #200
I believe the state made several mistakes in the way they presented their CIC. In the OS, LDB went through 31 days, over 2 hours worth of basically saying you must hate KC, she is evil. What mother would lie day after day about the whereabouts of her child to her own mother. Where was Caylee? ETC. ETC. ETC. Then she spent a lot less time on the other evidence than she did on the 31 days. I think the jury after the states OS knew BARD that KC was a liar, but wondered why the state would spend so much time proving what a despicable person she was, and so little time with other evidence.

The state had GA as its first witness, possibly to dispell any doubt about GA from the DT's OS. JA asked GA if he had ever molested his daughter, and GA looked down, hestitated and then answered NO. To me, right from this point, it looked as if GA was not being truthful. GA very well could have been being truthful, but if his actions were perceived by the jury as he may be lying, this would hurt the states case, and I believe this is what happened. Later GA was combative and elusive, as well as argumentative with JB. The Jury felt GA was not a credible witness, and again, I believe this hurt the states case.

The next group of witnesses following GA, all were KC's friends, and although they said she was at Fusions etc., they all said she seemed to have a good relationship with Caylee, and seemed to be a good mother. I know many murdering moms seem to be good mothers, but this was a direct contrast to the first couple hours of opening statements from the PT. I do not think this group of witnesses helped the states case at all, and in fact I believe it hurt the states case. The state spent a lot of time on KC's behavior, days and days, and even though the forensics were complex, they spent as much time on KC's behavior as they did on forensics, or very nearly as much time. The state showed all those jailhouse videos, which were all a month after Caylee had died. I wondered how were these tapes relevant to proving the murder of Caylee. It was obvious from OS that KC was a liar, and her friends said she was out with them, the jailhouse tapes may have just made the jury wonder where is the evidence to prove KC murdered Caylee? I believe the state went into overkill on the lies, the parties, and the bad behavior, and they did this because it was their strongest evidence, however, it does not prove KC murdered Caylee BARD.

The state finally brought in its experts, and I believe that between the cross examinations by the defense and the defense's own experts, could have ended up a tie, if not for a few things, like the FBI inadvertantly getting DNA on the duct tape, the unidentified allele 17, JA and AV making a mistake on the smell can, YM misspeaking, the lack of DNA and Decomp fluid in the carpet, and the 84 times. This being a case where the outcome could mean someones death, the jurors had to consider that if the state made mistakes like these, what other mistakes were made?

I also believe, that when JA was laughing at both the OS and CS of JB, that this hurt the states case. Why, it had nothing to do with the evidence you might say, but I disagree, I think it had everything to do with it. By laughing at what JB was saying, JA was undermining what JB was saying, and by extension, was depriving KC of her rights to a fair trial. It was plain and simple contempt of court, and could have influenced the jurors. It was also against HHJP's courtroom policies. JA was absolutely in the wrong with that disrespectful behavior.

The biggest mistake I believe the state made was when JA said "we can only hope the chloroform was used before the duct tape was applied, so Caylee didn't suffer." I believe the state realized it had pushed the hate KC agenda too far, and was actually trying to humanize her just a little, or at the very least, show that the state was compassionate and hoped Caylee didn't suffer. The reason I believe this was the biggest mistake made by the state, is because this simple sentence proved the state had no idea what really happened to Caylee. Regardless of what you think of the dt's performance throughout the trial, JB pounced on this tidbit and drove it home with the Mack truck HHJP was so fond of talking about. Personally, that one statement by JA would have been enough for me to find KC NG on count 1.

I totally agree with the verdict.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.
I wish I could believe that the jury gave this as much thought as you did...but nope don't believe it.
Just curious though...what do you think the jury thought of Baez's antics?

PS...and as we never saw the jury we have NO idea what they were looking at.
 
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