The Verdict - Do you agree or disagree?

[Sustained]

Approximately 5:05 Hosey talks about approaching the vehicle, smelling something but not something he would've alerted CSI for.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Sierra1947#p/c/5F7C38089DA342F7/31/xcuCgyQGE6w

So who from LE is left that had access to the Sunfire that smelled absolutely nothing ?

 

[beccalecca1]

Yep - probably best that you don't read it.

I'm sorry.. did I say I wasn't reading it?

 

[logicalgirl]

I just did the most interesting little test! Went through the last 30 pages of this thread and came to this conclusion. This is a thread that simply asks if we agree with the verdict or not - but we aren't required to agree that we actually watched the trial.
It has become more and more apparent to me in reading back and comparing the comments/questions/reasons given for why the not guilty verdict is correct that not everyone in this thread actually watched the trial.

In fact the majority of the comments/questions made would not have been made/ asked if those who are commenting actually watched the trial in full. All IMO of course. But then I'm a statistics kind of gal.

 

[beccalecca1]

So who from LE is left that had access to the Sunfire that smelled absolutely nothing ?

I'm not sure who you're referring to.

I do know that this day of trial Orlando had a horrible storm and live feed was lost at some point, so I don't know if this testimony was missing from the live feed, or if you're getting at a specific person.

Or... if you're stating that I said they didn't smell anything.

 

[beccalecca1]

I just did the most interesting little test! Went through the last 30 pages of this thread and came to this conclusion. This is a thread that simply asks if we agree with the verdict or not - but we aren't required to agree that we actually watched the trial.
It has become more and more apparent to me in reading back and comparing the comments/questions/reasons given for why the not guilty verdict is correct that not everyone in this thread actually watched the trial.

In fact the majority of the comments/questions made would not have been made/ asked if those who are commenting actually watched the trial in full. All IMO of course. But then I'm a statistics kind of gal.

I agree that it should be clarified if you've watched the trial in full. I have watched the trial in full. A fabulous WSer posted every second of trial on her youtube page so I was able to play catch up when I wasn't able to watch it live.

 

[logicalgirl]

Here's the problem - for the DP/LWOP penalty case. No one had heard the drowning story for three years - not a peep - not from Mr. Baez, who along with his client, insisted the child was "missing" all those long years with his face on any media show that would have him.

No one, repeat, no one heard the drowning "story" until Baez's opening statements.

On June 16th, the LE gave FCA every opportunity to say it was an accident, but no - not a peep, just denial and kidnapping...

Why not fess up at that time.....er..um...a little matter of the duct tape and the swamp...

I realized I needed a slight correction to this comment for those who are sticking to the "very specific" - the "A's" were told 6 weeks before the trial what information Baez's opening statements/accusations would be.

 

[beccalecca1]

Please cite the trial testimony where LE says they went strictly through the garage and not the front door. Also, Detective Hosey responded to CM that he did smell a foul odor coming from the vehicle as did Deputy Acevedo who said it smelled like garbage. Acevedo went on to say she had no experience in the smell of human decomp and would not be comfortable giving an opinion as such.

BBM.

I just wanted to clarify that Acavedo said in trial that she hasn't had a lot of experience with the smell of human decomposition, not that she had no experience. She did reiterate that she wouldn't be comfortable giving an opinion; but she still has been exposed to the smell.

 

[~n/t~]

I just did the most interesting little test! Went through the last 30 pages of this thread and came to this conclusion. This is a thread that simply asks if we agree with the verdict or not - but we aren't required to agree that we actually watched the trial.
It has become more and more apparent to me in reading back and comparing the comments/questions/reasons given for why the not guilty verdict is correct that not everyone in this thread actually watched the trial.

In fact the majority of the comments/questions made would not have been made/ asked if those who are commenting actually watched the trial in full. All IMO of course. But then I'm a statistics kind of gal.

and logical! Sorry couldn't resist. :fence:

 

[Sustained]

I'm not sure who you're referring to.

I do know that this day of trial Orlando had a horrible storm and live feed was lost at some point, so I don't know if this testimony was missing from the live feed, or if you're getting at a specific person.

Or... if you're stating that I said they didn't smell anything.

I could be mistaken, but I thought you were the one that say that were several people from LE at the Anthony's that night that had access to the vehicle and didn't smell anything. Please correct me if I'm wrong ...

And is it your contention that a decomposing body was never in the trunk of the Sunfire ? If so, I need to move on to another thread ...

 

[beccalecca1]

IIRC, LE was inside the HOUSE, not the garage! Law enforcement didn't "walk past the car", they entered the house through the front door. If you will remember, the Anthony's were separated to talk to different LE that night. I don't recall any of the LE officers walking past the car in the garage that FIRST night. :waitasec:

So who from LE is left that had access to the Sunfire that smelled absolutely nothing ?

I just wanted to add the original post that started this line of posting. I think it is important to keep the posts in context so there is no confusion on my purpose of posting videos of LE stating they walked past the car and didn't smell human decomposition. I do agree that I was wrong to say no LE used the front door, as I made an incorrect assumption. But, LE did walk past the car numerous times throughout their time there that night.

 

[Baznme]

I just posted my original post to this thread in response to someone else. Would you like me to post it again?

Found it................

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6969327&postcount=881"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The Verdict - Do you agree or disagree?[/ame]

Thanks for that. I have copied the original post so that I can see where we differ in opinion and maybe see both sides more objectively.

Quote:
I do believe it is certainly plausible that Caylee drowned in the family pool. During the trial I was watching some of Caylee's home videos, and the home video that has George feeding Caylee a carrot (or something like that) in the backyard, if you look in the background the pool is there with the ladder attached. Both George and Caylee are wearing clothing that isn't swimming attire, therefore they DIDN'T religiously take that ladder down as they portrayed. Caylee clearly looked at least 2 in this video. This would've been a time they were supposedly taking the precautions to avoid accidents like this.

Very good observation. I have to say I hadn't ever noticed it before but how do we know that they weren't preparing Caylee for a swim after her breakfast? Pools are all over the place in Florida and the drownings are common. If you own one, even if a neighbor's child wanders into your yard and you don't have a safety fence around it, you are liable for it. Thus, one of the reasons my son and DIL decided NOT to have one installed. The liability is tremendous. It could have been a drowning. I get that but why cover it up over an "accident". Doesn't make sense.

I do believe it is plausible that both George and Casey would attempt to cover up this accident out of fear from Cindy. We've all seen how ruthless that woman is (Cindy). Maybe George felt responsible for the accident, and Casey equally felt responsible. Keep in mind, George just regained some of Cindy's trust and was welcomed back into the home. Maybe Casey didn't know exactly what happened with Caylee's body, and left all of that up to George (hence the "I don't know where she is" comments).

This is also a very good point but, on the actual day that Caylee was found, according to reports, ICA completely fell apart as though she KNEW that was Caylee they found and Cindy may be ruthless but, she's not LE or FBI. She was a grandmother.

I do believe it is very possible that George was a sexual abuser. He appeared very arrogant, and almost above the law on the stand when facing JB. He had inappropriate laughter, etc; it all appeared to be a show to me. I don't think George was with Caylee alone ever, like the Anthony's would like us to believe. Caylee had her own bedroom, but slept with Casey every night. I think Casey made up the job lie to get her parents off her back, and made up the nanny lie to make sure George would never be alone with Caylee. The nanny was there to cover the times Cindy wouldn't/couldn't watch Caylee. And, Casey just took Caylee with her wherever she went on the other times. Ricardo stated on the stand that Caylee and Casey stayed at his place about 4 times a week. Casey clearly wasn't drugging Caylee then to 'get rid of the burden'; I doubt all of a sudden she started with Tony.

GA's arrogance I have always believed was partly part of his personality and partly an old skin from his days with LE. You know, that old "blue shield" that they share? When people don't recognize it, they are quick to show it to you with statements like "you show me respect" and I'll do the same for you. Me first, kind of thing. Also, I am befuddled as to how KC was using anything Caylee but, I'm fairly confident it was "something" that contained chloroform. The how of it is the biggest hurdle. The why, not so much. Boyfriends and her social life had taken precedence. At 22, I can even understand that to a point.

I don't believe there was "off the charts" amounts of chloroform in that trunk. I also think it's impossible for there to have been chloroform used on Caylee's body, Caylee dumped in the swamp, Casey dumping her car, then the Anthony's picking it up from the towyard and AIRING THE TRUNK OUT for hours, and it still having chloroform relating to this child's death. That trunk was aired out, the whole car was aired out, for at least a couple of hours if not longer. How would there have been chloroform still in the air, given the fact that it's highly volatile? I think, Cindy dumped a bleach/water mixture in that trunk, or another form of cleaner with bleach in it, to get rid of the smell. When she closed that trunk for the final time, it resulted in the choloform being released in the trunk air.

You say you don't believe there were "off the charts" amounts of chloroform in the trunk. I can understand disputing Dr. Vass's testimony in this regard but to totally dismiss high amounts still left in the car is a strong statement. Since chloroform is known to lay at the lowest point and was only found in the carpet samples from a particular area of the trunk, seems it was not in the air but in that particular area of the carpeting. Once the trunk closed again, the chloroform was again concentrated as it was emitting the chemical still but with no aeration to diminish its' strength. I think since your original post on this, it was established that CA did not clean the trunk. I could be wrong, if so, please someone point that out for me.

And, one thing I found extremely strange (amongst the many MANY other things in this case) is the Dominic Casey video. I hadn't really paid a lot of attention to it until it was brought up in the trial. I do believe after watching and rewatching that video many times, Dominic was in the dump site of Caylee. The area they entered the swamp matches the crime scene photos of the entry to where her body was. After they go in and take a left, there is a fallen tree that matches the tree that was right near/over Caylee's skull. And, in the background of this video is a really long/large fallen tree that sounds like the one that is described on one of RK's first 911 calls. I'm convinced this is the same area. And, either Caylee's body wasn't there in November, OR it was burried and they practically stepped on/over her body. And, besides the strangeness of both Kronk and Dominic knowing where to go to find her body, I remember reading in one of Kronk's statements that he was in that area in August, November, and then December. Why was he there in November without calling 911?

D. Casey's presence in this area has always been suspicious to me also and the "medium" theory was bunk IMO. I think enough time had passed at this point that Cindy had picked up the info from Kio's story about the burial ground for pets AND ICA's statement "I know she's close". She orchestrated that whole facade about looking there. She knew that is was being done so, that IMO points right back to Cindy. The thing I can't figure out to this day is why would you videotape it? Was D. Casey and his cohort (Jim) looking for the money wagon to pull up with that video in their back pocket? I think maybe so.

Too many questions without answers in this case. And too many weird coincidences. I agree with the verdict, I would've done the same thing. I openly stated this on another forum after the prosecution rested, and got flamed many times for it. I never understood the anger against the people who didn't agree, people should truly be mad at the prosecution for not presenting a better case.

Too many questions without answers in this case. And too many weird coincidences. ITA on that but I don't think it's totally the fault of the PT. There were a lot of mistakes made. The defense side made their fair share and so did the jury IMO.

 

[logicalgirl]

So who from LE is left that had access to the Sunfire that smelled absolutely nothing ?

Sure - all those ten professionals who knew from past experience what human decomp smells like, including the dog handlers came into court and lied about the smell of human decomp in the trunk of FCA's car....just because...

 

[beccalecca1]

I could be mistaken, but I thought you were the one that say that were several people from LE at the Anthony's that night that had access to the vehicle and didn't smell anything. Please correct me if I'm wrong ...

And is it your contention that a decomposing body was never in the trunk of the Sunfire ? If so, I need to move on to another thread ...

I don't believe I ever stated they didn't smell anything, and if I did I meant they didn't smell anything in regards to a dead human decomposing in the trunk. Of course the trunk smells, I would just be deaf and blind if I didn't believe that to be true.

If you follow the contexts of the posts, you'll see what I'm getting at. (I posted the original post that had my responses before your posting began to make it easy).

It is my belief there was not a decomposing body in the trunk.

 

[pcrum12]

I just did the most interesting little test! Went through the last 30 pages of this thread and came to this conclusion. This is a thread that simply asks if we agree with the verdict or not - but we aren't required to agree that we actually watched the trial.
It has become more and more apparent to me in reading back and comparing the comments/questions/reasons given for why the not guilty verdict is correct that not everyone in this thread actually watched the trial.

In fact the majority of the comments/questions made would not have been made/ asked if those who are commenting actually watched the trial in full. All IMO of course. But then I'm a statistics kind of gal.

I watched the entire trial, then re watched the entire trial via dvr. I also follwed the case for 3 yrs prior, read every document, watched every hearing to include bond, frye, all pretrial, I watched daily TV talking Heads continuously, I've probably read every thread on this forum. I've read hundreds of articles. I've read 1 book that has been published. I've taken a whole spiral notebook of notes. I've researched via internet vast majority of a multitude of evidence, opinions, and laws. FWIW, I'm a statistics kind of gal too, lol.

 

[Sustained]

I don't believe I ever stated they didn't smell anything, and if I did I meant they didn't smell anything in regards to a dead human decomposing in the trunk. Of course the trunk smells, I would just be deaf and blind if I didn't believe that to be true.

If you follow the contexts of the posts, you'll see what I'm getting at. (I posted the original post that had my responses before your posting began to make it easy).

It is my belief there was not a decomposing body in the trunk.

If LE did not smell human decomposition in the trunk of the Sunfire and there was no body in the car, why did they confiscate the car and tow it off to CSI ? To check for Zanny's finger prints ? FCA never mentioned the Sunfire in her statement as a possible crime scene.

 

[logicalgirl]

Found it................

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6969327&postcount=881"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The Verdict - Do you agree or disagree?[/ame]




snipped for space


(snipped for space)

Regarding the "accident" IMO - there is no rational explanation for placing duct tape on the face of a child, bagging that child in three separate bags, driving around with the bagged child in your trunk, if this was an accidental death. The "Huck" case, established a precedent in Supreme Court that there is no reason to place tape on the face of an individual except to prevent that person from breathing.

Re: the trunk of the car and CA cleaning it. One of the CSI's - the one who also had experience with more than 30's bodies/decomp in another country, testified the trunk was not particularly clean when he examined it and clearly had not been cleaned.

It is my understanding that it was determined in court, by the use of maps, that D.Casey and Hoover were not searching in the exact area that Caylee's remains were found. After all, if Kronk was accused of being involved in Caylee's disposal, why not D.Casey? D.Casey seemed to clearly know what he was looking for when he was slashing black garbage bags, while Kronk only had an idea of what he would find. To me it appeared the DT knew exactly why he was there, because they did not investigate him like Kronk.

 

[beccalecca1]

Found it................

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The Verdict - Do you agree or disagree?

Thanks for that. I have copied the original post so that I can see where we differ in opinion and maybe see both sides more objectively.

Quote:
I do believe it is certainly plausible that Caylee drowned in the family pool. During the trial I was watching some of Caylee's home videos, and the home video that has George feeding Caylee a carrot (or something like that) in the backyard, if you look in the background the pool is there with the ladder attached. Both George and Caylee are wearing clothing that isn't swimming attire, therefore they DIDN'T religiously take that ladder down as they portrayed. Caylee clearly looked at least 2 in this video. This would've been a time they were supposedly taking the precautions to avoid accidents like this.

Very good observation. I have to say I hadn't ever noticed it before but how do we know that they weren't preparing Caylee for a swim after her breakfast? Pools are all over the place in Florida and the drownings are common. If you own one, even if a neighbor's child wanders into your yard and you don't have a safety fence around it, you are liable for it. Thus, one of the reasons my son and DIL decided NOT to have one installed. The liability is tremendous. It could have been a drowning. I get that but why cover it up over an "accident". Doesn't make sense.

I could believe that if it appeared they were wearing warmer clothing. IIRC (I haven't seen the video in weeks now), Caylee was wearing long sleeves. IMO, long sleeves on a sunny day probably means it's a lot cooler temperature wise. So, why would you want a child getting wet on a cooler day unless you had an indoor pool?

I do believe it is plausible that both George and Casey would attempt to cover up this accident out of fear from Cindy. We've all seen how ruthless that woman is (Cindy). Maybe George felt responsible for the accident, and Casey equally felt responsible. Keep in mind, George just regained some of Cindy's trust and was welcomed back into the home. Maybe Casey didn't know exactly what happened with Caylee's body, and left all of that up to George (hence the "I don't know where she is" comments).

This is also a very good point but, on the actual day that Caylee was found, according to reports, ICA completely fell apart as though she KNEW that was Caylee they found and Cindy may be ruthless but, she's not LE or FBI. She was a grandmother.

I agree on the reports (I saw the emails from LE about this incident), but that doesn't mean that Casey didn't learn afterwards of where Caylee was. There was a lot of code speak between the A's during those jailhouse interviews, and Casey had already been released to the home and returned to jail before they found Caylee, so who's to say she didn't learn after the fact where Caylee was laid to rest?

I do believe it is very possible that George was a sexual abuser. He appeared very arrogant, and almost above the law on the stand when facing JB. He had inappropriate laughter, etc; it all appeared to be a show to me. I don't think George was with Caylee alone ever, like the Anthony's would like us to believe. Caylee had her own bedroom, but slept with Casey every night. I think Casey made up the job lie to get her parents off her back, and made up the nanny lie to make sure George would never be alone with Caylee. The nanny was there to cover the times Cindy wouldn't/couldn't watch Caylee. And, Casey just took Caylee with her wherever she went on the other times. Ricardo stated on the stand that Caylee and Casey stayed at his place about 4 times a week. Casey clearly wasn't drugging Caylee then to 'get rid of the burden'; I doubt all of a sudden she started with Tony.

GA's arrogance I have always believed was partly part of his personality and partly an old skin from his days with LE. You know, that old "blue shield" that they share? When people don't recognize it, they are quick to show it to you with statements like "you show my respect" and I'll do the same for you. Me first, kind of thing. Also, I am befuddled as to how KC was using anything Caylee but, I'm fairly confident it was "something" that contained chloroform. The how of it is the biggest hurdle. The why, not so much. Boyfriends and her social life had taken precedence. At 22, I can even understand that to a point.

I don't believe that arrogance was part of his personality just because the way CA handled the family. She seemed to be a "take charge" kind of lady and GA seemed to cower to her. If he was consistently defensive, then I might believe that was just how he behaved normally; but I don't recall seeing him like that during any other moments besides when he was backed into a corner. If you listen to his early LE interviews, you can just hear it in his voice how cowardly he seems. He acts so innocent bringing all this information to them, IMO "playing" like he's just an innocent bystander in the whole thing. IMO, this was an accident that turned bad, and he did everything in his power to maintain the position he currently held in his family. He acted, IMO, like someone who wanted to keep the secrets secret.

I don't believe there was "off the charts" amounts of chloroform in that trunk. I also think it's impossible for there to have been chloroform used on Caylee's body, Caylee dumped in the swamp, Casey dumping her car, then the Anthony's picking it up from the towyard and AIRING THE TRUNK OUT for hours, and it still having chloroform relating to this child's death. That trunk was aired out, the whole car was aired out, for at least a couple of hours if not longer. How would there have been chloroform still in the air, given the fact that it's highly volatile? I think, Cindy dumped a bleach/water mixture in that trunk, or another form of cleaner with bleach in it, to get rid of the smell. When she closed that trunk for the final time, it resulted in the choloform being released in the trunk air.

You say you don't believe there were "off the charts" amounts of chloroform in the trunk. I can understand disputing Dr. Vass's testimony in this regard but to totally dismiss high amounts still left in the car is a strong statement. Since chloroform is known to lay at the lowest point and was only found in the carpet samples from a particular area of the trunk, seems it was not in the air but in that particular area of the carpeting. Once the trunk closed again, the chloroform was again concentrated as it was emitting the chemical still but with no aeration to diminish its' strength. I think since your original post on this, it was established that CA did not clean the trunk. I could be wrong, if so, please someone point that out for me.

BBM. I thought the chloroform was found in air samples and carpet samples. Was I wrong? Also, in my original post, I stated I "think" CA cleaned the car out. It was established way before that post that CA isn't admitting to cleaning the car out, just using a bottle of febreeze on it and placing dryer sheets in it. I just don't believe that Casey Anthony would make chloroform to kill her daughter when there is a lot more easy ways to do it. Her mom is a nurse, I'm sure Casey knows there are OTC meds you can take that will kill you. Why not just do it that way since apparently her plan was to cover it up anyways? Using OTC meds would've probably been cheaper anyways, or you could just steal it from your local pharmacy and no one would know any different.

And, one thing I found extremely strange (amongst the many MANY other things in this case) is the Dominic Casey video. I hadn't really paid a lot of attention to it until it was brought up in the trial. I do believe after watching and rewatching that video many times, Dominic was in the dump site of Caylee. The area they entered the swamp matches the crime scene photos of the entry to where her body was. After they go in and take a left, there is a fallen tree that matches the tree that was right near/over Caylee's skull. And, in the background of this video is a really long/large fallen tree that sounds like the one that is described on one of RK's first 911 calls. I'm convinced this is the same area. And, either Caylee's body wasn't there in November, OR it was burried and they practically stepped on/over her body. And, besides the strangeness of both Kronk and Dominic knowing where to go to find her body, I remember reading in one of Kronk's statements that he was in that area in August, November, and then December. Why was he there in November without calling 911?

D. Casey's presence in this area has always been suspicious to me also and the "medium" theory was bunk IMO. I think enough time had passed at this point that Cindy had picked up the info from Kio's story about the burial ground for pets AND ICA's statement "I know she's close". She orchestrated that whole facade about looking there. She knew that is was being done so, that IMO points right back to Cindy. The thing I can't figure out to this day is why would you videotape it? Was D. Casey and his cohort (Jim) looking for the money wagon to pull up with that video in their back pocket? I think maybe so.

I believe D Casey was looking for a payday just like everyone else involved in this case, that's why he video taped it. But I do recommend watching the video after reading/hearing RK's 911 calls, and compare that to the crime scene photos. It looks eerily similar to the crime scene area.... too similar if you ask me.

Too many questions without answers in this case. And too many weird coincidences. I agree with the verdict, I would've done the same thing. I openly stated this on another forum after the prosecution rested, and got flamed many times for it. I never understood the anger against the people who didn't agree, people should truly be mad at the prosecution for not presenting a better case.

Too many questions without answers in this case. And too many weird coincidences. ITA on that but I don't think it's totally the fault of the PT. There were a lot of mistakes made. The defense side made their fair share and so did the jury IMO.

I do agree that both PT and DT made mistakes, but I don't agree the jury did. But, that's MOO.

Thank you for a respectful reply! :seeya:

 

[beccalecca1]

If LE did not smell human decomposition in the trunk of the Sunfire and there was no body in the car, why did they confiscate the car and tow it off to CSI ? To check for Zanny's finger prints ? FCA never mentioned the Sunfire in her statement as a possible crime scene.

I'll have to go back and listen to trial testimony of YM to find out what possessed him to do it (I originally thought it was SB telling LE about the smell but was mistaken).

I do know that the LE that took the stand with the video links I've provided did not smell human decomposition. That is Fletcher, Acavedo (although she did say to LDB she didn't feel comfortable stating an opinion, but just told JB she though it was a "garbage sort of smell"), and Hosey.

 

[logicalgirl]

I watched the entire trial, then re watched the entire trial via dvr. I also follwed the case for 3 yrs prior, read every document, watched every hearing to include bond, frye, all pretrial, I watched daily TV talking Heads continuously, I've probably read every thread on this forum. I've read hundreds of articles. I've read 1 book that has been published. I've taken a whole spiral notebook of notes. I've researched via internet vast majority of a multitude of evidence, opinions, and laws. FWIW, I'm a statistics kind of gal too, lol.

Oh that's great. So just to summarize - how would you feel about running through your theory of "how this went down" just briefly in one post? It's been hard for me to follow in bits and bites. A stat here and a stat there did not a theory in whole make. Thx.

By the way, I am not going to come back at you with any "cross exams" - just curious to finally understand over all the legal minds who disagree with you how you came absolutely to your conclusions.

 

[beccalecca1]

Found it................

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The Verdict - Do you agree or disagree?




snipped for space


(snipped for space)

Regarding the "accident" IMO - there is no rational explanation for placing duct tape on the face of a child, bagging that child in three separate bags, driving around with the bagged child in your trunk, if this was an accidental death. The "Huck" case, established a precedent in Supreme Court that there is no reason to place tape on the face of an individual except to prevent that person from breathing.

Re: the trunk of the car and CA cleaning it. One of the CSI's - the one who also had experience with more than 30's bodies/decomp in another country, testified the trunk was not particularly clean when he examined it and clearly had not been cleaned.

It is my understanding that it was determined in court, by the use of maps, that D.Casey and Hoover were not searching in the exact area that Caylee's remains were found. After all, if Kronk was accused of being involved in Caylee's disposal, why not D.Casey? D.Casey seemed to clearly know what he was looking for when he was slashing black garbage bags, while Kronk only had an idea of what he would find. To me it appeared the DT knew exactly why he was there, because they did not investigate him like Kronk.

Re-listen to Hoover's testimony; he placed them at Caylee's dump site. IMO, it was not determined in court where they were. Plus, watching the handy-dandy video is more of a testimony then either of their recollections.