The Verdict - Do you agree or disagree?

[beccalecca1]

IIRC, GA put gas in it at the tow yard. But I don't remember if he tried to start it first with no luck. It is very possible that the car ran out of gas, but I think that it ran out of gas AFTER FCA parked in at the Amscot. I believe that she planned to park it there and let the car run until it ran out of gas. For one thing, the car was backed into its spot. (no one pushes a car backwards into a spot when it is disabled). Secondly, no one has come forward to say they were the ones to help FCA push the car out of the road. So my conclusion is that FCA parked next to the (smelly) dumpster when it was really low on gas and then let it run out. Then she called Tony. Part of her plan. (IMO).

Beginning approximately 11:10 SB talks about how the car wouldn't start. At approximately 14:10 the conversation picks back up (they trail off on human decomposition for a bit)
http://www.youtube.com/user/Sierra1947#p/c/C449DC30780D8EEE/86/-i6ulu3FwqM

This follows the previous video with the "out of gas" conversation.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Sierra1947#p/c/C449DC30780D8EEE/86/-i6ulu3FwqM

 

[Sustained]

You are probably right.

Truly a new low standard for juries was set if this was the case. If this sets the new norm, forever more, some "Anything-Can-Be-Anything" comments can convince a jury that the time-honored legal principle of Consciousness of Guilt is not valid of consideration.

Really, what is death, after all? We have a legal definition but maybe anything-can-be-anything should be applied and there is no worthy parameter to define death.

I never thought I could have a lower opinion of the jury - but you just gave me one. Sad.

And additionally, what is "reasonable doubt" ? Obviously, the definition provided to the jurors via jury instructions was not heeded here.

A reasonable doubt is not a mere possible doubt, a speculative, imaginary or forced doubt.

There was no evidence of GA's involvement, but the jury speculated that he might have been involved. Hmm, speculated ... a reasonable doubt is not a mere speculative doubt. The jurors didn't like GA, so they speculated that he could've been involved in a master plan to cover up Caylee's death.

The jury speculated that there could have been an accident. Basing that decision on pictures that Caylee was on the pool ladder, or the unsubstantiated claim that the pool ladder was up on 6/16, was pure speculation on their part. I suppose if the DT put up a picture of Caylee riding her tricycle in the street on Hopespring Drive, the jury could have speculated that Caylee was hit by a car. Or if a picture was introduced that Caylee was on a stepladder in front of the medicine cabinet, the jury could have speculated that she could have ingested something toxic and that caused her death. The DT chose the obvious accident theory for Florida, a drowning. A drowning that was not reported to 911 and was never owned up to by FCA/GA, due to fear of backlash from CA.

Real circumstantial evidence as presented in this case does not require speculation, but inference. And to that end, the jury failed the citizens of Orange County miserably.

 

[yolorado]

I agree krkjx! I believe the jury hated George the minute Baez accused him of molesting Casey.

In retrospect, since no evidence was ever presented on this molestation, I wonder why Judge Perry didn't instruct the jury to completely disregard Baez's opening statements? Could the Judge even do that?

To me, crying molestation or rape without proof or the testimony of the accuser is akin to molestation or rape, is the same as not believing true victims, hurts true victims by generating a 'cried wolf' effect. IMO, Jose and KC are total slimeballs for employing this tactic. In our country today, once you raise the subject, it's all over. IMO, that's exactly what Jose intended and what actually happened with the jury, whether they said they used it in their deliberations or not. Baez should never have been permitted to say the words. Many people don't need or want proof. Just the allegation is enough to convict the accused. So in this case, we had KC with all this presumption of innocence needing to be convicted beyond a doubt (any, not reasonable as the jury seems to have seen it), yet at the same time, I believed they convicted George without any presumption of innocence, needing no standard of doubt what-so-ever. Karma would be ,,, same thing happens to Baez, and with this one, it could. He better be darned careful. Sad state of affairs in the US today that a mountain of evidence can't convict one who has been duly charged, but a few words can convict a very probably innocent witness without an iota of proof. Travesty...complete and utter. Sad, tragic, unjust.

 

[Sustained]

http://www.acandyrose.com/casey_anthony_31days.htm

Looks like she was trying to retrieve the car not abandon it. IMO

June 27, 2008 (Fri)
12:00pm (est)
Anthony Lazarro:
09/08/08 Interview Text
Anthony Lazarro admitted that he was a little irriated that he had to pick Casey up this day because he had to drop a project paper off at school. Casey had some bags of food that looked like she got from her parents freezer.

June 27, 2008 (Fri)
2:00pm (est)
Anthony Lazarro:
09/08/08 Interview Text
Anthony Lazarro said he drove back to his apartment because he had to print some papers for his school project then he had to take the project papers to school and drop them off.

June 28, 2008 (Sat)
01:24pm
Jesse Grund:
07/23/08 Interview
Casey called Jesse at 1:25pm, she told him about running out of gas the day before and wanted to borrow a gas can from him but he was on the opposite side of town and wasn't able to help her.

June 29, 2008 (Sun)
10:25am
Casey Anthony Calls:
06/29/2008 Phone Log
Casey texted Amy:
@ 954-328-9214
06/28 10:25am 0min
"Can I borrow you and your gas can today?"

June 29, 2008 (Sun)
10:49am
Casey Anthony Calls:
06/29/2008 Phone Log
Amy texted Casey:
From 954-328-9214
06/28 10:29am 0min
"Storage hun. I was supposed to have my stuff out by now."

June 30, 2008 (Mon)
09:00am (est)
Anthony Lazarro:
09/08/08 Interview Text
Anthony Lazarro said his roommate Cameron Campana's flight was around 10am and Tony's flight to New York was later but they both went to the airport at the same time. Casey drove them to airport in Lazarro's jeep.

June 30, 2008 (Mon)
09:06am
Gary Ridgeway:
07/24/08 Interview
Gary Ridgeway, tow truck driver for Johnson's Wrecker, 7777 Narcoossee Rd, dispatched 8:50am to 7501 East Colonial Dr to tow white Pontiac. He arrived at 9:06am, said car front parked towards the curb.

June 30, 2008 (Mon)
09:38am
Amy Huizenga:
07/23/08 Interview Text
Casey called Amy at 9:38am telling her to open Ricardo's apt door. Casey standing outside the door. Casey kept asking if Amy had a gas can but Amy's stuff was in storage so Amy suggested they go buy one at Target.

June 30, 2008 (Mon)
01:00pm - 01:30pm
Amy Huizenga:
07/23/08 Interview Text
Amy and Casey went to Target to get a gas can "between eleven and one-ish." They went in Tony Lazarro's Jeep. Amy said Casey always insisted on driving Tony's Jeep even when Amy offered.

Really ? FCA exhausted all resources in trying to get her during those 3 days ... she called GA/CA/LA, the rest of TL's roommates, her good friend Annie Dowling ?

 

[beccalecca1]

If she had this elaborate pact/plan with her father, why didn't she just call him and ask him to bring her some gas?

Perhaps facing her father would remind her of the death of her child and everything that followed and she was in a current state of denial?

 

[beccalecca1]

BBM - the fact that you gave these items a heavy weight in the NG verdict concerns me. The jury was instructed NOT to form an opinion based on their opinion of counsel. And what seems to be missing in your response is the Rebuttal phase. Sure JB presented some theories in his CIC, but JA and LDB did a very good job of rebutting his theory. Considering you are not convinced of who did the chloroform searches, for example, makes me think you checked out during the rebuttal. IMO.

I gave those things heavy wait, but I was not a member of the jury. I don't claim to represent the jury either. My postings here are not in any way, shape, or form meant to represent the jury. The postings that follow mine to somehow "prove" the jury didn't know what they were doing isn't proof at all. The jury as a whole has not come out to state why they chose the way they did; so I don't think it's appropriate to pass judgements on why they did off of my postings. Just my :twocents:

 

[pcrum12]

I don't recall reading it either way, but did GA have to put gas in it when they collected it ...... or did he simply hop in and drive it off?
The answer to that is the answer to whether KC was lying about it or not.
It was towed to the yard, not driven, so no argument can be made that the trip to yard ran it out of gas ... (the amount of gas in it when it got to the yard was the amount of gas in it when it was left at Amscott)
BTW - to assist with somebody else's question - an out-of-gas car will still "turn over" - it just won't start. A car with a flat battery or one of many other problems will not turn over at all.

The car WAS out of gas. The car would not start at the tow yard. GA even took gas with him to the tow yard. However, he never had anyone that we know of tell him before hand that it was out of gas. Just thinking, maybe Casey told him. hmmmm

 

[Italy]

And additionally, what is "reasonable doubt" ? Obviously, the definition provided to the jurors via jury instructions was not heeded here.

A reasonable doubt is not a mere possible doubt, a speculative, imaginary or forced doubt.

There was no evidence of GA's involvement, but the jury speculated that he might have been involved. Hmm, speculated ... a reasonable doubt is not a mere speculative doubt. The jurors didn't like GA, so they speculated that he could've been involved in a master plan to cover up Caylee's death.

The jury speculated that there could have been an accident. Basing that decision on pictures that Caylee was on the pool ladder, or the unsubstantiated claim that the pool ladder was up on 6/16, was pure speculation on their part. I suppose if the DT put up a picture of Caylee riding her tricycle in the street on Hopespring Drive, the jury could have speculated that Caylee was hit by a car. Or if a picture was introduced that Caylee was on a stepladder in front of the medicine cabinet, the jury could have speculated that she could have ingested something toxic and that caused her death. The DT chose the obvious accident theory for Florida, a drowning. A drowning that was not reported to 911 and was never owned up to by FCA/GA, due to fear of backlash from CA.

Real circumstantial evidence as presented in this case does not require speculation, but inference. And to that end, the jury failed the citizens of Orange County miserably.

Well said.

And if the jury used the Chicken Soup theater lady to excuse/explain their failure to consider consciousness of guilt on the part of Casey Anthony, they are collectively even more feeble minded than I initially thought.

Several jurors have said one thing with which I agree -- Hopefully none of them will ever again be selected to serve on a jury.

 

[yolorado]

Really ? FCA exhausted all resources in trying to get her during those 3 days ... she called GA/CA/LA, the rest of TL's roommates, her good friend Annie Dowling ?

Didn't she tell Tony that he car was in the shop after this incident because there was some problem with it and that where it apparently "stayed" until Cindy showed up at the apartment. She dumped that car. She couldn't stand the smell. If she wanted gas, all she had to do was buy a gas can (if she couldn't find one anywhere else, she could've stolen the money to do it as we know she can and has) and filled it up like most of us have, me- more than once. It's really no biggie. Nah, it was the smell. She needed time to think about that one. Maybe by the time she figured it out, if she did, she's a talker, not a planner, it was gone.

 

[pcrum12]

Once again, it's called "covering your butt" ... why didn't she just go to Target, KMart on the 27th and get a gas can ? When she called TL to come and get her, why didn't she tell him to stop, get a gas can and some gas, and come to the Amscot. And why didn't she go to Johnson's tow yard after the car was towed and try and retrieve it ? And why didn't she call GA/CA/LA or even MP to come and help her ? And why did park directly next to the dumpster which much have smelly pretty ripe in the Florida heat.

Answer - she didn't want the car anymore b/c of the decomp smell beginning to form in the trunk. Are you going to tell me that was part of the master plan she had with GA ?

She probably didn't have any money and would have been embarrassed in front of Tony to admit that. As to calling the Anthonys she would have been admitting her lie that she was out of town. She wasn't going to do that.

 

[yolorado]

The car WAS out of gas. The car would not start at the tow yard. GA even took gas with him to the tow yard. However, he never had anyone that we know of tell him before hand that it was out of gas. Just thinking, maybe Casey told him. hmmmm

I don't recall whether car wouldn't start at tow yard or not, but I have heard George on tape and, I believe, at trial say that he took the gas can because he suspected the car had been towed after KC ran out of gas and left it there because KC had a history of running out of gas, so he took the gas can. Perfectly logical.

 

[KarmaGet'em]

Beginning approximately 11:10 SB talks about how the car wouldn't start. At approximately 14:10 the conversation picks back up (they trail off on human decomposition for a bit)
http://www.youtube.com/user/Sierra1947#p/c/C449DC30780D8EEE/86/-i6ulu3FwqM

This follows the previous video with the "out of gas" conversation.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Sierra1947#p/c/C449DC30780D8EEE/86/-i6ulu3FwqM

I don't disagree with that, I just could not recall. Thank you for the links.
IMO, I still think that FCA intentionally ran out of gas at the Amscot in attempt to abandon it. It just seems odd that the car was backed into its spot next to the dumpster. How did it get into that position? When you run out of gas, it pretty much is immobile and requires a push. No one would attempt to push it backwards perfectly into a parking spot like that.

 

[beccalecca1]

I don't recall whether car wouldn't start at tow yard or not, but I have heard George on tape and, I believe, at trial say that he took the gas can because he suspected the car had been towed after KC ran out of gas and left it there because KC had a history of running out of gas, so he took the gas can. Perfectly logical.

I posted trial video of SB testifying the gauge was on E and it wouldn't start at the tow yard.

 

[beccalecca1]

I don't disagree with that, I just could not recall. Thank you for the links.
IMO, I still think that FCA intentionally ran out of gas at the Amscot in attempt to abandon it. It just seems odd that the car was backed into its spot next to the dumpster. How did it get into that position? When you run out of gas, it pretty much is immobile and requires a push. No one would attempt to push it backwards perfectly into a parking spot like that.

YW for the links

I'm not sure how she could've intentionally ran out of gas at the Amscot. Is this suggesting maybe she parked her car there and left it running? Why wouldn't someone see it and just steal it then?

 

[yolorado]

YW for the links

I'm not sure how she could've intentionally ran out of gas at the Amscot. Is this suggesting maybe she parked her car there and left it running? Why wouldn't someone see it and just steal it then?

Early on, some people here speculated that KC actually wanted the car to be stolen, then somehow she'd tie that in to a kidnapping ala Susan Smith. We'll never know unless she tells. Bet she never will. But we do know she never went back and got the car, even though it would have be a snap to do so if she wanted to.

 

[beccalecca1]

Early on, some people here speculated that KC actually wanted the car to be stolen, then somehow she'd tie that in to a kidnapping ala Susan Smith. We'll never know unless she tells. Bet she never will.

Or perhaps she will tell the truth but most wont believe it. Never know.

 

[beach]

She left a "work" satchel not her purse with her important stuff in it.

I'm just curious...What kind of "important stuff" would you expect to find? :waitasec: Maybe copies of routing numbers off the bank accounts? Like those of her grandmother or the one dedicated for her grandfather's nursing home expenses? Some stolen checks from her friends that she hadn't written YET?

Considering she had no job, didn't attend college and her life mainly consisted of texting, communicating online via social media sites and hanging out with her friends... She didn't pay ANY bills, so that wouldn't be an issue.

Seriously. What are you considering "important stuff"? I can't imagine.

 

[Baznme]

If she had this elaborate pact/plan with her father, why didn't she just call him and ask him to bring her some gas?

(bump):waiting:

 

[beccalecca1]

Perhaps facing her father would remind her of the death of her child and everything that followed and she was in a current state of denial?

(bump):waiting:

:waitasec:

 

[Baznme]

She probably didn't have any money and would have been embarrassed in front of Tony to admit that. As to calling the Anthonys she would have been admitting her lie that she was out of town. She wasn't going to do that.

This doesn't make sense. If GA was supposed to be so involved with the coverup of Caylee's death, why wouldn't KC get on the phone to ask her father to help get that car out of there rather than allow it to be towed? If they were in on this plan together, seems to me he would have been the one to help out with this.