The wait for closing arguments discussion thread

[Dmman]

I don't think the fact that they are not in court means that they are disgusted...I think it could be because they don't want the harassment of the press and nosey spectators..they probably have jobs and family and do not want to subject them to this circus...who could blame them...and of course being scrutinized and talked about on internet sites...JMO

I disagree. I have one son (he's 8). If I thought my son was innocent of ANY crime you better bet your bottom dollar that I would be there every single day to support him!!!! There's no doubt in my mind why they're staying away! And it has nothing to do with them wanting privacy!!! JMO

 

[Hello_Kitty]

Closing remarks reinforce your case and the evidence presented. Derstine didn't present much of a case and didn't positively refute much of the crown's case. I think his closing will be a whole lot of out of left field blustering that the jury will consider and, ultimately, dismiss.

IMO, Derstine's defence was doomed from the beginning when he suggested to TLM in cross that MR was the innocent dupe who helped her clean up the crime scene. The drug theory was a brave attempt, but it really insults one's intelligence, I hope the jury can see through that.

 

[maxfactor]

I know that Tara has continued to struggle with her demons, she was arrested after Tori's death. But i don't hold it against her just like I don't hold Rodney's behavior before Tori's death against him.

It breaks my heart either way, but I don't believe either of their shortcomings were related to what happened to Tori. If there is no relation between Jame's drug dept and Tori's abduction I hope we learn about it so maybe the clouds hanging of Tara's head won't be as dark.

That is so true, thanks for reminding everyone of that!! They have ALL been affected by what happened and Tara IMO was unfairly blamed for all of this in the beginning. The poor woman has gone through hell regardless of what she has or has not done. I think the drug debt was raised with Tara when she was on the stand, I am 100% positive that if the debt had anything to do with TLM the jury will know that but if it involved MR I don't know if that would have been admissible as evidence, might go to his character or something. I'm quite sure that it was dealt with and the person who JG ripped off was not related to the case. Hopefully we will find that out next week.

 

[Heliotrope]

I disagree. I have one son (he's 8). If I thought my son was innocent of ANY crime you better bet your bottom dollar that I would be there every single day to support him!!!! There's no doubt in my mind why they're staying away! And it has nothing to do with them wanting privacy!!! JMO

What you said X 1000. And then 1000 more for good measure.

 

[maxfactor]

I disagree. I have one son (he's 8). If I thought my son was innocent of ANY crime you better bet your bottom dollar that I would be there every single day to support him!!!! There's no doubt in my mind why they're staying away! And it has nothing to do with them wanting privacy!!! JMO

I totally agree with you there!!! I have felt from the very beginning that the silence from his family spoke volumes about his guilt!!! If it were my child and he was guilty of this horrendous crime he would be on his own, but he was innocent I would be raising bloody hell to have it dealt with before it even got to trial, the media, private investigators, whatever it took. IMO

 

[Macright]

That is so true, thanks for reminding everyone of that!! They have ALL been affected by what happened and Tara IMO was unfairly blamed for all of this in the beginning. The poor woman has gone through hell regardless of what she has or has not done. I think the drug debt was raised with Tara when she was on the stand, I am 100% positive that if the debt had anything to do with TLM the jury will know that but if it involved MR I don't know if that would have been admissible as evidence, might go to his character or something. I'm quite sure that it was dealt with and the person who JG ripped off was not related to the case. Hopefully we will find that out next week.

okay Maxfactor...I know you are quoting but please make sure that you are quoting the correct poster...I am not the writer of this quote yet you have me as the original poster.. I do not want to take credit for it..can you please alert a Mod to have this corrected.. thanks.... see post #403 that has my name attached to it...

 

[tmhco]

ITA, but there is a difference between blaming Tara because she had upset a dealer and blaming Tara because Tori walked home by herself.

I don't think that Tara knew that Tori was going to walk home that day, I think she thought that she would walk home with her brother but he was taking another child home so Tori decided to walk home by herself.

In no way was I suggesting it was her fault. This could have happened to anyone. I was only trying to convey how RS might feel. I would like to think that i would not feel that way if it were me, but anger might get the best of me.

I only hold 2 accountable and God willing they will both be put away for a long time. JMO

 

[daisy.faithfull]

(RSBM)

Do you really think that LE would not have checked for any other women wearing a white jacket who picked up a child that afternoon? Even if there had been a dozen of them, I would think that this was thoroughly investigated and other possibilities ruled out. Had there been others who fit the witness's description, the Crown would have put them on the stand to discredit her testimony. They didn't.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The wait for closing arguments discussion thread


JMO

Just because the Crown didn't bring up LE investigating other women in white coats doesn't mean that they didn't do so. It's my understanding that the defence is not required to let the Crown know what their witnesses will say unless that witness is an expert.

I think it is possible that the Crown had no idea that the defence was going to put that grandmother up on the stand. If that's the case then how could they have been prepared to present evidence that showed that LE did talk to other women in white coat.

There are other explanations for why the Crown did not bring it up. Just because the Crown didn't point that out does not mean we should assume there weren't other people wearing coats like that.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

In no way was I suggesting it was her fault. This could have happened to anyone. I was only trying to convey how RS might feel. I would like to think that i would not feel that way if it were me, but anger might get the best of me.

I only hold 2 accountable and God willing they will both be put away for a long time. JMO

I know you didn't say you blamed Tara, thats not what i was doing. And I wouldnt blame you if you did because i can see why some people do blame her. I was just pointing out how Rodney might feel too and there is a difference between Rodney blaming Tori's death on a drug deal and blaming Tara for being alone that day.

 

[Mystic]

I'm a bit confused here.

Did the Grandmother witness see the video surveillance, know that the kidnapper was wearing a white coat, but then when she talked to police on April 11, 2009, she didn't mention she saw a woman wearing a white coat enter the school because police did not ask?

If that's the case, that's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

She is not credible at all. If she saw the video and knew the relevance of the white coat and didn't mention it, then I don't believe a word she testified to today.

MOO

i agree.. and Derstein's statement about number of students at the school is ridiculous as well... everytime a child is kidnapped by a stranger anywhere in the world there are hundreds of others in and around the area that were not. TLM and MR were going to take a child at some time from somewhere and that is the sad truth.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

closing remarks may not be evidence but they will have an impact on the jury..thus the main reason they are presented..otherwise why bother..JMO

So you think its okay for the jury to be swayed by speculations made in opening and closing remarks? Is it now okay for the jury to be swayed by testimony that MTR was a cad, a liar, a pimp and a drug addict.

 

[maxfactor]

okay Maxfactor...I know you are quoting but please make sure that you are quoting the correct poster...I am not the writer of this quote yet you have me as the original poster.. I do not want to take credit for it..can you please alert a Mod to have this corrected.. thanks.... see post #403 that has my name attached to it...

Not sure what happened there, that's the first time that's happened to me but apparently other posters have been having issues with the quotes, I have fixed it.Now I see that in your post above you have it that daisyfaithful posted that but it was actually my quote, your post 547 above.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

okay Maxfactor...I know you are quoting but please make sure that you are quoting the correct poster...I am not the writer of this quote yet you have me as the original poster.. I do not want to take credit for it..can you please alert a Mod to have this corrected.. thanks.... see post #403 that has my name attached to it...

I didn't say what the quote box says I said in your post.

 

[snoofer]

I read a couple of articles where lawyers discussed the possibility of MR testifyiing and how the defense team would be preparing him and asking him questions the Crown may ask.

If the defense would coach their witness, would the Crown also have coached TLM, their star witness?

JMO............

lmao I bet they did coach her; for a lot of good it did. As she changed her testimony at the last month and left everyone scrambling! Uncoachable! JMO

Geesh, who was the unlucky one who got that job?? If how she ran circles around Genest was any indication; the coach sure earned their pay!! MOO

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Not sure what happened there, that's the first time that's happened to me but apparently other posters have been having issues with the quotes, I have fixed it.

I have had the same thing happen to me too. I'm on an iPad.

 

[giantalkinghead]

I've been following this case on this website since the beginning. I read almost everything...yet rarely post. I did a google search and found something interesting - which may or may not have something to do with Rodney's frustration in terms of looking for the truth. First is a link to a news story about TM, JG and someone named Brandon who were arrested for dealing drugs in September 2011 ( crack cocaine etc. )

http://swo.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/...tock-drug-arrests-mcdonald-110928?hub=SWOHome

This Brandon name made me think about a couple of other things:

1) the name found written and scratched out along with T & J phone number by LE at TLM house (picture here)

Picture 33 of 111

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/04/04/19594746.html

2) Wasn't there some reference to a person named Brandon and Canadian Tire in Rafferty's first interview with police ??

It just seams to me that this drug trafficing circle is/was a whole lot more closely linked than what has been presented in court. Maybe there will be more to come after the publication ban is lifted.

Also just wondering... where is ChaChaCha ?? I haven't seen any comments from this person in a long time.... or have I just missed them ?

 

[Mystic]

i have a friend who had a white jacket that same year (not from that province) and she got hers for 35 bucks at Giant Tiger. They had oodles of them! MOO

your exactly right, i purchased one from giant tiger and then exchanged it for another coat

 

[Kamille]

Just because the Crown didn't bring up LE investigating other women in white coats doesn't mean that they didn't do so. It's my understanding that the defence is not required to let the Crown know what their witnesses will say unless that witness is an expert.

I think it is possible that the Crown had no idea that the defence was going to put that grandmother up on the stand. If that's the case then how could they have been prepared to present evidence that showed that LE did talk to other women in white coat.

There are other explanations for why the Crown did not bring it up. Just because the Crown didn't point that out does not mean we should assume there weren't other people wearing coats like that.

Wasn't this the first the Crown had heard of this claim about a woman in a white coat entering the school? Didn't the woman say that she didn't tell LE about it because they didn't ask?

It sure seemed like news to RS.

MOO

 

[Macright]

So you think its okay for the jury to be swayed by speculations made in opening and closing remarks? Is it now okay for the jury to be swayed by testimony that MTR was a cad, a liar, a pimp and a drug addict.

Yes I do to your first question ..The fact he is a cad..liar(to women and his employment),pimp and doing drugs...No..even the judge warned the jury that his "character" in these things should not be factored into their decision..JMO these have no bearing on what he is charged with...he hasn't a criminal record..he didn't nuke a dog...he didn't beat up his mother or another imate...he didn't stab someone..no writings were found that he was thirsty for murder...he didn't tell anyone he would do it (murder) again... etc. etc. etc. I could go on and on but I think you get my drift....just saying........IMO

 

[tmhco]

I know you didn't say you blamed Tara, thats not what i was doing. And I wouldnt blame you if you did because i can see why some people do blame her. I was just pointing out how Rodney might feel too and there is a difference between Rodney blaming Tori's death on a drug deal and blaming Tara for being alone that day.

You would have been correct if you had, sometimes I type first and think later! I just wanted to clear that up. No mother can protect her children from all the evils in the world. My heart bleeds for her.