The Wall Phone

  • #21
Didn't White testify at the Grand Jury Proceeding?

IF he was there, they must not have asked him the right questions.

The process of Grand Jury is rather a mystery to me.

Are the witnesses restricted a voice to only answer the question put to them? No elaboration on their part, am I correct?

IF he knew who killed JonBenet, he apparently was not enabled to say so, am I right?

Perhaps he had no doubt that the GJ would go for a court trial, now what?


.
 
  • #22
Camper said:
Didn't White testify at the Grand Jury Proceeding?

IF he was there, they must not have asked him the right questions.

The process of Grand Jury is rather a mystery to me.

Are the witnesses restricted a voice to only answer the question put to them? No elaboration on their part, am I correct?

IF he knew who killed JonBenet, he apparently was not enabled to say so, am I right?

Perhaps he had no doubt that the GJ would go for a court trial, now what?


.



Camper,

According to my information, the entire White family testified at the grand jury hearings, which would be Fleet, Jr., Priscilla, and their two children, Fleet III (about Burke's age) and Daphne (about JonBenet's age). I believe the jurors asked many of the right questions because it was Fleet and Little Fleet who disclosed that Burke owned Hi-Tec boots after the Ramseys denied anyone in the family having ever owned Hi-Tecs.

Grand juries are independant, largely unstructured, report to the court, but are somewhat guided by the D.A. They are powerful and able to investigate anyone and anything they want to get to the truth. They are assigned their own team of professional investigators. The Ramsey grand jurors investigated for 13 months, from September of 1998 to October of 1999, and I believe they solved the case. IMO children too young to prosecute were involved; therefore no indictments were issued; a gag order was placed on the case; and that's where things stand to this day.

BlueCrab
 
  • #23
BlueCrab said:
Camper,

According to my information, the entire White family testified at the grand jury hearings, which would be Fleet, Jr., Priscilla, and their two children, Fleet III (about Burke's age) and Daphne (about JonBenet's age). I believe the jurors asked many of the right questions because it was Fleet and Little Fleet who disclosed that Burke owned Hi-Tec boots after the Ramseys denied anyone in the family having ever owned Hi-Tecs.

Grand juries are independant, largely unstructured, report to the court, but are somewhat guided by the D.A. They are powerful and able to investigate anyone and anything they want to get to the truth. They are assigned their own team of professional investigators. The Ramsey grand jurors investigated for 13 months, from September of 1998 to October of 1999, and I believe they solved the case. IMO children too young to prosecute were involved; therefore no indictments were issued; a gag order was placed on the case; and that's where things stand to this day.

BlueCrab



Welll, I will yet again pose the question that I have posed for umpteen times, over 8.5 years. HOW deep is the law prohibiting and 'protecting' the names of 'children' 10 and under who are found guilty? Does this law encompass the person/parent who covers for their child? For IF the parent were exposed in the media for writing the phony ransom note, then all thinking folk would then know the child was underage, huh? BUT, IF the note were written to protect a young adult child, then heads would have rolled.

This is why I do think that NOT all of the right questions were asked by the GJ, if your supposition is that White 'knows' something besides what came out in the GJ proceedings.

I refer to your post (BlueCrab)at 9:49 pm

However, IMO Fleet White and Priscilla know who killed JonBenet. The Ramseys know the Whites know, and that's what is behind the smear campaign the Ramseys have been engaged in -- trying to make the Whites appear to have been behaving strangely. It won't work. IMO Fleet has the evidence and will make his court appearances when and if needed. The court gag order on the case also keeps him in check for now.

I find this to be a mixture of mental confusion, perhaps White just hoped and wished that 'the child' would get professional help. Surely White would not want the boy to be exposed, although IF the truth had been told either accidentally or purposefully by their friend White, lives would be comforted and gone comfortably on by now, imop.

Betcha the GJ did not even talk or ask questions about the OLDEST son, who had been officially cleared by BPD, cuz HE had alibi's up the gazoo. WE do not know, do WE, whether the GJ asked or did not ask about HIM. I am guessing that they were mum on the oldest son. Therefore I am hanging on to my 'PET' theory.

DID the oldest son already OWN --- or receive 'THE' or 'a' scarf for Christmas OR at the party of the 23rd, a great BIG hmmm for me. As Thorkim said, 'Dig her up.

BUT ask the guests at the party of the 23rd, DID JAR receive a scarf at that party, and what color was IT.

Recall the quick pic at the cemetary of JAR. Plus the mag interview with JAR asking forgiveness for the killer, before the dirt from the digging of JonBenet's grave had settled.


.
 
  • #24
Camper said:
Betcha the GJ did not even talk or ask questions about the OLDEST son, who had been officially cleared by BPD, cuz HE had alibi's up the gazoo. WE do not know, do WE, whether the GJ asked or did not ask about HIM. I am guessing that they were mum on the oldest son. Therefore I am hanging on to my 'PET' theory.
.


Camper,

John Andrew Ramsey testified in front of the grand jury, and they could have asked him anything they wanted. What they asked JAR and what his responses were are, of course, confidential.
 
  • #25
BlueCrab said:
Camper,

According to my information, the entire White family testified at the grand jury hearings, which would be Fleet, Jr., Priscilla, and their two children, Fleet III (about Burke's age) and Daphne (about JonBenet's age). I believe the jurors asked many of the right questions because it was Fleet and Little Fleet who disclosed that Burke owned Hi-Tec boots after the Ramseys denied anyone in the family having ever owned Hi-Tecs.

Grand juries are independant, largely unstructured, report to the court, but are somewhat guided by the D.A. They are powerful and able to investigate anyone and anything they want to get to the truth. They are assigned their own team of professional investigators. The Ramsey grand jurors investigated for 13 months, from September of 1998 to October of 1999, and I believe they solved the case. IMO children too young to prosecute were involved; therefore no indictments were issued; a gag order was placed on the case; and that's where things stand to this day.

BlueCrab

BlueCrab,

I'm sure we have been over this before ... but maybe you can help me better understand ...

If accordng to your theory,the killing was done by a minor and another person of culpable age,that was not a Ramsey ... this case could have been brought to trial within a short time. Surely,the lawyers and justice system could have worked their way around the minor,since Colorado law cannot identify him because of his age ... or better yet,state the minor was innocent,because the minor did not know what he was doing because he was being coerced or tutored by the culpable aged person who definitely did understand what he was doing,and caused the death of JonBenet.So that would leave the culpable person to be brought to justice ... why would the Ramsey's be covering up for a non-Ramsey?

My second question is concerning Fleet. If, as you say,Fleet knows what happened,but after being questioned,and holding back on information that may have solve the murder ... isn't that obstruction of justice,or even considered abetting to some degree? Wouldn' then Fleet be up to his eye balls in as you so eloquently put it ... doo doo?
 
  • #26
Who does he think he is - Goldilocks?

Good one Tipper!!
 
  • #27
BlueCrab said:
Camper,

John Andrew Ramsey testified in front of the grand jury, and they could have asked him anything they wanted. What they asked JAR and what his responses were are, of course, confidential.



BlueCrab,
Thank you. You think he came with his ticket stub? Wonder IF his buddies testified, and brought their stubs too?



.
 
  • #28
Camper said:
BlueCrab,
Thank you. You think he came with his ticket stub? Wonder IF his buddies testified, and brought their stubs too?



Camper,

Brad Millard may have testified, but I'm not sure of that.

I know that Doug Stine testified prior to Burke testifying for five hours on May 19, 1999. After Burke testified the grand jury took a four month recess as the investigators followed up on what they learned from the testimonies of almost 100 witnesses. It's interesting to note that when the jurors returned in September of 1999 they called just four others to testify -- John Andrew Ramsey, Melinda Ramsey, private investigator Ellis Armistead, and Susan Stine. The grand jury last met on October 10, 1999 and when they permanently adjourned the court slapped a gag order on the case which remains to this day.

By the time the grand jury permanently adjourned I think the jurors had the crime solved. Those last four interviews were needed to just cross the T's and dot the i's.

Strangely, the two most important witnesses in the case, John and Patsy Ramsey, were never called to testify.

BlueCrab
 
  • #29
BlueCrab said:
Camper,

[...]The grand jury last met on October 10, 1999 and when they permanently adjourned the court slapped a gag order on the case which remains to this day.

[...]
BlueCrab
To the best of my knowledge ALL grand juries are under a gag order until a case has been resolved. That the court "slapped a gag order " on it is not unque to this case. It's just SOP.
 
  • #30
What is the penalty for defying the gag order? I have often wondered what prevents GJ members from speaking to the press anonymously. I have served on a jury quite a few times, but wasn't chosen the one time I was called for GJ service. I know me, and if *I* had served on Ramsey GJ or the Michael Jackson GJ I wouldn't be able to :silenced: keep my mouth shut!!!
 
  • #31
Quote from BlueCrab:
Strangely, the two most important witnesses in the case, John and Patsy Ramsey, were never called to testify.

I wonder why they weren't called. I think everyone,including the Ramsey's were perplexed by that.
 
  • #32
Linda7NJ said:
What is the penalty for defying the gag order? I have often wondered what prevents GJ members from speaking to the press anonymously. I have served on a jury quite a few times, but wasn't chosen the one time I was called for GJ service. I know me, and if *I* had served on Ramsey GJ or the Michael Jackson GJ I wouldn't be able to :silenced: keep my mouth shut!!!


Linda7NJ,

Defying a judge's gag order is contempt of court and punishable by jail a/o fines. The conviction would strip professional people, such as lawyers and doctors, of their licenses and thus their ability to make a living.

Grand jury members normally can publicly and legally tell what they personally testified to, but cannot tell any other kind of information they gleaned from testifying. However, I think the court gag order stops ALL information coming from the jurists.

Nevertheless, information from the GJ has been leaking for some time now. For instance, testimony about Burke owning Hi-Tec boots, despite the Ramseys claim that no one in the family ever owned Hi-Tec boots, apparently came from a GJ leak prior to Burke testifying. Thus, when it was Burke's turn to testify, on May 19, 1999, he knew he had to admit he owned Hi-Tec boots or be faced with perjury (lying to a grand jury).

BlueCrab
 
  • #33
Maikai said:
It doesn't matter if Patsy slammed the phone back into the cradle, or gently placed it there. It was a wall phone, for Pete's sake. Either it hangs up, or gravity would cause it to fall on the floor in a clatter. The point is, the phone was hung up, and Burke's voice is not on that tape.

No phone cord was used to strangle JBR----the white cord was still imbedded in her neck--no question as to what was used to strangle her.

I didn't know Westmoreland's house was l5,000 sf...interesting. Fleet and Priscilla don't appear pretentious to me....sometimes those that have it, don't flaunt it.
I agree about the cord Maikai.

I don't believe the W's "had it" to flaunt.

FW is the only known liar on that day.
 
  • #34
Zman said:
I don't believe the W's "had it" to flaunt.


Zman,

The White's could buy and sell the Ramseys many times over.
 
  • #35
BlueCrab said:
Zman,

The White's could buy and sell the Ramseys many times over.
I'm not so sure. Priscilla had to turn down a trip to NYC with Patsy because they couldn't afford it.
 
  • #36
tipper said:
I'm not so sure. Priscilla had to turn down a trip to NYC with Patsy because they couldn't afford it.


tipper,

One excuse is just as good as the next if you don't want to go somewhere.
 
  • #37
BlueCrab said:
tipper,

One excuse is just as good as the next if you don't want to go somewhere.
I thought about that but I don't think so. If one is just looking for an excuse you claim a previous commitment. Fleet White may have come from money but I'm not so sure he was rolling in it. A 2000sq ft house is pretty small for raising kids etc. Perhaps the free-wheeling financial ways of the Ramseys rankled Fleet. Clearly he was annoyed that the Westmorelands had money.
 
  • #38
Quote from BlueCrab:
Thus, when it was Burke's turn to testify, on May 19, 1999, he knew he had to admit he owned Hi-Tec boots or be faced with perjury (lying to a grand jury).
BlueCrab,

Are you saying BR could be charged with perjury,but cannot be charged with murder because of his age?

What the heck kind of justice system to we have??
 
  • #39
capps said:
Quote from BlueCrab:
Thus, when it was Burke's turn to testify, on May 19, 1999, he knew he had to admit he owned Hi-Tec boots or be faced with perjury (lying to a grand jury).
BlueCrab,

Are you saying BR could be charged with perjury,but cannot be charged with murder because of his age?

What the heck kind of justice system to we have??


capps,

Burke was 9 years old when JonBenet died. He was 12 years old when he testified in front of the grand jury.
 
  • #40
You're absolutely right BlueCrab ... I didn't think of that,thanks for clearing that up.
 

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