The Wall Phone

  • #81
BlueCrab said:
aussiesheila,

District Attorney Mary Keenan has done NOTHING since taking over the "investigation" of the Ramsey murder. Keenen has no money to carry on an active investigation, and she has not requested any. There is no investigation.

Mary Keenan is part of the obvious coverup involving the Ramseys, the DA's office, and the courts in Boulder. IMO the case has been solved since 1999, underage children were involved, and it's the duty of the district attorney to pretend there's still an investigation in order to not violate Colorado law shielding the identities of the children.

BlueCrab

If the above is true,I believe Keenan is derelict in her duties to the citizens of Boulder.To have the community believe until this day, that there is a dangerous killer on the loose,when indeed there is not,is outrageous.

If the above is true,and they cannot reveal who the killer is (ie: because of age),then it is up to Keenan to be creative,and find a way to state the case is closed, without revealing who it is.I'm sure some how,some way,that can be done.
 
  • #82
Zman said:
Yes and I'm sure when he was 16 he told his mom he'd be back by 10 and was late. I'm sure he tried to get served at bars when he was 20 lying about his age.

I was talking about the case.
If we are talking about John Ramsey, then we ARE talking about the case, he is JonBenet's father... you cant get more central to the case than that.
 
  • #83
Zman said:
Yes and I'm sure when he was 16 he told his mom he'd be back by 10 and was late. I'm sure he tried to get served at bars when he was 20 lying about his age.

I was talking about the case.

As Narlacat said, and it is true, any evidence that John Ramsey lies is central to his role as a suspect in the case, and yes, that includes his integrity and capacity for telling the truth, or lack thereof, even many years ago. Every word John said in his official interviews is supposed to be true. If any of it is not true, then he hampers the investigation, because the investigators rely on the truth of what he says to develop their leads and determine what physical items in the house may be clues to an intruder and which items are not. But John Ramsey has already demonstrated his comfort with not telling the truth. He had to have told lies for a sustained period during his affair. These lies were told to an adult woman by an adult man, both of whom were in their middle thirties, and are not the lies of a child. The mere fact that John was able to lie to his own wife, the woman he married, had sex with, and who gave birth to his children, the woman who is supposed to know more about him than anyone else but himself, shows how easy it would be for him to lie to far less intimate authorities about something as important as whether he was involved in his daughter's death.
 
  • #84
why_nutt said:
As Narlacat said, and it is true, any evidence that John Ramsey lies is central to his role as a suspect in the case, and yes, that includes his integrity and capacity for telling the truth, or lack thereof, even many years ago. Every word John said in his official interviews is supposed to be true. If any of it is not true, then he hampers the investigation, because the investigators rely on the truth of what he says to develop their leads and determine what physical items in the house may be clues to an intruder and which items are not. But John Ramsey has already demonstrated his comfort with not telling the truth. He had to have told lies for a sustained period during his affair. These lies were told to an adult woman by an adult man, both of whom were in their middle thirties, and are not the lies of a child. The mere fact that John was able to lie to his own wife, the woman he married, had sex with, and who gave birth to his children, the woman who is supposed to know more about him than anyone else but himself, shows how easy it would be for him to lie to far less intimate authorities about something as important as whether he was involved in his daughter's death.
How do you know he was comfortalbe not telling his wife? Maybe it drove him crazy. Maybe he thinks it was the worst thing he ever did.

I'm sure most of the cops interviewing JR have lied to their wives about something sometime.
Cops don't have affairs?
Cops don't have one night stands?
What world do you live in?
This is America just because you killed someone 10 years ago does not mean you are guilty of killing agian. Just because you lied 10 years ago does not mean you are lying again.
In that case no interview done by police in history could be worth anything because no one in thier life has been 100% honest. No confession is worth a grain of salt because anybody could of be lying at any time. A defense attorny would only need to find a time when a suspect lied in his history to get him off.
And please don't bother to tell me you have never told a lie. 'Cause I won't buy it anyway.
 
  • #85
Zman
After reading this post, it's official.
I will not read or reply to any of your posts again.
We are not here to argue, we are here to discuss what we think happened to JonBenet and some of us are actually doing things in the real world to find justice for her.
 
  • #86
Zman said:
How do you know he was comfortalbe not telling his wife? Maybe it drove him crazy. Maybe he thinks it was the worst thing he ever did.

I'm sure most of the cops interviewing JR have lied to their wives about something sometime.
Cops don't have affairs?
Cops don't have one night stands?
What world do you live in?
This is America just because you killed someone 10 years ago does not mean you are guilty of killing agian. Just because you lied 10 years ago does not mean you are lying again.
In that case no interview done by police in history could be worth anything because no one in thier life has been 100% honest. No confession is worth a grain of salt because anybody could of be lying at any time. A defense attorny would only need to find a time when a suspect lied in his history to get him off.
And please don't bother to tell me you have never told a lie. 'Cause I won't buy it anyway.

I have the Colorado Rules of Evidence to back up my assertion.

RULE 608 Evidence of Character and Conduct of Witness

(a) Opinion and reputation evidence of character. The credibility of a witness may be attacked or supported by evidence in the form of opinion or reputation, but subject to these limitations: (1) the evidence may refer only to character for truthfulness or untruthfulness, and (2) evidence of truthful character is admissible only after the character of the witness for truthfulness has been attacked by opinion or reputation evidence or otherwise.

(b) Specific instances of conduct. Specific instances of the conduct of a witness, for the purpose of attacking or supporting his credibility, other than conviction of crime as provided in 13-90-101, C.R.S. 1973, may not be proved by extrinsic evidence. They may, however, in the discretion of the court, if probative of truthfulness or untruthfulness, be inquired into on cross-examination of the witness (1) concerning his character for truthfulness or untruthfulness, or (2) concerning the character for truthfulness or untruthfulness of another witness as to which character the witness being cross-examined has testified.

The giving of testimony, whether by an accused or by any other witness, does not operate as a waiver of his privilege against self-incrimination when examined with respect to matters which relate only to credibility.
 
  • #87
narlacat said:
Zman
After reading this post, it's official.
I will not read or reply to any of your posts again.
We are not here to argue, we are here to discuss what we think happened to JonBenet and some of us are actually doing things in the real world to find justice for her.
Well narlacat as far as I can tell no one replys to my questions anyway. I just get more RDI propaganda. I applaud those who are actually doing things to find justice for JBR. However I fear there are some who just want to see J and P railroaded to prison any way possible.

What does the fact that JR had an affair have to do with the death of JBR? How is that finding justice for her?

Maybe the DA would be able to attack the credibility of JR in court why-nutt but that opens up a can of worms on both ends. Im sure the R's defense team would be ready for it. I hope the DA really has that fiber evidence or the enhanced 911 tape or whatever evidence they try to use against the R's. I hope they are just as spotless with their honesty. I doubt it.

Not to mention that I do believe we re-elected a president who was guilty of the same thing. Anybody remember his name?
 
  • #88
Zman said:
Well narlacat as far as I can tell no one replys to my questions anyway. I just get more RDI propaganda. Not to mention that I do believe we re-elected a president who was guilty of the same thing. Anybody remember his name?

Not quite true, Zman. There are just people here who believe the evidence leads back to the Rs. They are not trying to disseminate RDI propaganda.

I have always claimed to be a fence sitter. I wish I could get on either the RDI or IDI side but I can't seem to do that. I have some of my own theories, but they contradict one another so I always go back to the fence.

I totally agree about the former President, but in all fairness, he didn't have a child who was murdered in the home.
 
  • #89
Nehemiah said:
Not quite true, Zman. There are just people here who believe the evidence leads back to the Rs. They are not trying to disseminate RDI propaganda.

I have always claimed to be a fence sitter. I wish I could get on either the RDI or IDI side but I can't seem to do that. I have some of my own theories, but they contradict one another so I always go back to the fence.

I totally agree about the former President, but in all fairness, he didn't have a child who was murdered in the home.
Could be Nehemiah only I think sometimes people lead the evidence to the R's.

I used to be a fence sitter until I became convinced that the R's did not write the RN.

Yes but even though the entire country knew he lied to his wife and us on national tv about his affair, the people of America still re-elected him to the most trusted office this country has to offer. So I don't think the fact that JR may of lied to his wife about his affair would have much impact on any trial not to mention any opinion on if he's telling the truth about JBR.
 
  • #90
trixie said:
I noticed this also. I think she's trying to infer that Burke cannot be on the tape because she SLAMMED the reciever back into the cradle. That was my take anyway.
Yes I think so too. Talking about putting the phone back in the cradle does seem to be a very pointed remark to me. So I agree with you that she's trying to infer that Burke cannot be on the tape. Which in my opinion means that he must have been.

But I don't think this has to mean that Burke was involved in JonBenet's death. I just think they wanted to keep him totally out of the whole thing.
 
  • #91
aussiesheila said:
Yes I think so too. Talking about putting the phone back in the cradle does seem to be a very pointed remark to me. So I agree with you that she's trying to infer that Burke cannot be on the tape. Which in my opinion means that he must have been.

But I don't think this has to mean that Burke was involved in JonBenet's death. I just think they wanted to keep him totally out of the whole thing.
Well it would be very odd if Patsy claims not to remember the details of that morning -yet can remember how she replaced the telephone on its cradle!

Personally, I think it would make more sense if Burke's voice WAS on the tape and I think it would point more to their innocence than guilt. I find it very odd that Burke pretended to be asleep when there was a commotion downstairs. A child who was not used to his parents shouting would IMO go downstairs and ask what was wrong. Was he afraid of his parents? or was he used to them shouting?
 
  • #92
Jayelles said:
[...]
Personally, I think it would make more sense if Burke's voice WAS on the tape and I think it would point more to their innocence than guilt. I find it very odd that Burke pretended to be asleep when there was a commotion downstairs. A child who was not used to his parents shouting would IMO go downstairs and ask what was wrong. Was he afraid of his parents? or was he used to them shouting?
As we have discussed before each kid is different. One of my sons would definitely hide out until the commotion was over. There is very rarely shouiting in our house and he's not afraid of us. He just hates any kind of a ruckus.

In Burke's interview he said he was pretending to be asleep. In the grand jury he testified to pretending to sleep. I would think adults experienced in questioning could easily trip up one ten year old boy in a lie if he were indeed lying.
 
  • #93
tipper said:
In Burke's interview he said he was pretending to be asleep. In the grand jury he testified to pretending to sleep. I would think adults experienced in questioning could easily trip up one ten year old boy in a lie if he were indeed lying.


tipper,

They did trip him up.

John, Patsy, AND BURKE each lied in separate police interviews about Burke being in bed asleep at 5:52 AM and therefore not knowing anything about what was taking place in the house that morning.

Moreover, Burke's "pretending to be asleep" has nothing to do with the lie on the 911 tape. Pretending to be asleep is a Ramsey red herring thrown in there later by the Ramseys to help confuse the issue after the cops told all three Ramseys they had been caught on tape lying about Burke BEING IN BED during the 911 call at 5:52 AM.

"Pretending to be asleep" and BEING DOWNSTAIRS at 5:52 AM would be two entirely different and unrelated events, but impossible to have occurred. Burke couldn't have been in two different places at the same time. He had to be either upstairs in bed pretending to be asleep or be downstairs in the kitchen talking to his parents. The 911 tape proved he was downstairs.

It just adds up to another bare-faced Ramsey lie. How can Burke be upstairs pretending to be asleep at 5:52 AM when the 911 tape proves he was downstairs in the kitchen talking to his parents at 5:52 AM?

The "pretending to be asleep" ploy does not answer how Burke's voice got on the 911 tape.

BlueCrab
 
  • #94
BlueCrab said:
tipper,

They did trip him up.

John, Patsy, AND BURKE each lied in separate police interviews about Burke being in bed asleep at 5:52 AM and therefore not knowing anything about what was taking place in the house that morning.

Moreover, Burke's "pretending to be asleep" has nothing to do with the lie on the 911 tape. Pretending to be asleep is a Ramsey red herring thrown in there later by the Ramseys to help confuse the issue after the cops told all three Ramseys they had been caught on tape lying about Burke BEING IN BED during the 911 call at 5:52 AM.

"Pretending to be asleep" and BEING DOWNSTAIRS at 5:52 AM would be two entirely different and unrelated events, but impossible to have occurred. Burke couldn't have been in two different places at the same time. He had to be either upstairs in bed pretending to be asleep or be downstairs in the kitchen talking to his parents. The 911 tape proved he was downstairs.

It just adds up to another bare-faced Ramsey lie. How can Burke be upstairs pretending to be asleep at 5:52 AM when the 911 tape proves he was downstairs in the kitchen talking to his parents at 5:52 AM?

The "pretending to be asleep" ploy does not answer how Burke's voice got on the 911 tape.

BlueCrab


Exactly, what BlueCrab said.

Now then, Ramseys have never purported to have had anyone else in their home when they were making the 911 call December 26th. So common mathmatics idicate that the voice that is muffled has to have been Burke, since HE was the ONLY other person in the home that 'appeared' to have been in the house.

As Sherlock Holmes would have said, 'elementary Dr. Watson'.



.
 
  • #95
Camper said:
Exactly, what BlueCrab said.

Now then, Ramseys have never purported to have had anyone else in their home when they were making the 911 call December 26th. So common mathmatics idicate that the voice that is muffled has to have been Burke, since HE was the ONLY other person in the home that 'appeared' to have been in the house.

As Sherlock Holmes would have said, 'elementary Dr. Watson'.



.
Do you have to encourage BC?
Why put so much stock in evidence that does not exist?
 
  • #96
Zman said:
Do you have to encourage BC?
Why put so much stock in evidence that does not exist?
I believe Aerospace enhanced the 911 tape. But so far we only have the word of one disgruntled cop to say that it contains Burke's voice. I'm sure the esteemed Mr. Holmes would require more than that before he put any faith in it.
 
  • #97
tipper said:
I believe Aerospace enhanced the 911 tape. But so far we only have the word of one disgruntled cop to say that it contains Burke's voice. I'm sure the esteemed Mr. Holmes would require more than that before he put any faith in it.


tipper,

You are wrong; there are many others who have heard it. IMO we have the word of all of the cops who have heard the enhanced 911 tape that it contains Burke's voice; and to the best of my knowledge several, if not most, of the BPD have heard it. IMO no one in the public has heard it, including Lin Wood and the Ramseys. They have heard only copies of the original 911 tape; not the Aerospace enhanced 911 tape.
 
  • #98
BlueCrab said:
tipper,

You are wrong; there are many others who have heard it. IMO we have the word of all of the cops who have heard the enhanced 911 tape that it contains Burke's voice; and to the best of my knowledge several, if not most, of the BPD have heard it. IMO no one in the public has heard it, including Lin Wood and the Ramseys. They have heard only copies of the original 911 tape; not the Aerospace enhanced 911 tape.
The only cop we have heard from, as far as I know, is Steve Thomas. If you can give me quotes from the others I'd love to read them.
 
  • #99
Let's assume the enhances 911 tape containing Burke's voice does indeed exists.

So what? A reasonable explanation could be they didn't want the kid scared out of his mind and tossed in the middle of whatever was going on.
BUT in my experience and opinion when a tragedy hits a family, parents instinctually tend to "want to hold their babies tight," not send them off elsewhere.
 
  • #100
Linda7NJ said:
Let's assume the enhances 911 tape containing Burke's voice does indeed exists.

So what? A reasonable explanation could be they didn't want the kid scared out of his mind and tossed in the middle of whatever was going on.
BUT in my experience and opinion when a tragedy hits a family, parents instinctually tend to "want to hold their babies tight," not send them off elsewhere.
If it could be proven that Burke's voice is on the tape I would become deeply suspicious of the Ramseys because it would make no sense to hide the fact that he was up.

As far as his going to the White's I think it was the best thing for him and apparently neither FW nor the police had any problem with it.
 

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