The Wine Cellar

[DeeDee249]

I agree about the doll. If you Google the 1996 Holiday Barbie, you can see that it is the doll that was in the winecellar. They are still available on eBay and you do not have to belong to eBay to look for it. You can see the distinctive front of the doll's burgundy dress, open in the front with the white trim. One thing to consider is that the Barbie in the winecellar could have been a gift to Jenny, JB's cousin (and the intended recipient of the Bloomies panty set). It is possible the doll was part of Jenny's gifts and unwrapped to look for the panties. It may not have even been JB's doll. We don't have many photos of the gifts under the tree that morning, but if JB had been given one too, it would have been in those photos. Those Holiday Barbie dolls are collectors dolls and usually given to keep on display and not taken from the box to play with. Even adults collect them, so it wouldn't be unusual to give one to a 12-year-old girl.
Of course, we don't know whether JR may have tossed the doll aside when he unwrapped the blanket to pick up JB. One thing I have always felt very frustrated about- FW knew exactly what JR did and didn't do inside the wine cellar. FW was right behind JR, and he knew whether the doll was nearer to her body, knew whether JR actually tried to untie the wrist ligatures, etc. JR claimed the wrists were tied tightly together- we KNOW that's a lie because the coroner noted NO ligature furrows on her wrists (you can look for yourself on the autopsy photos). We also know that her wrists were frozen by rigor mortis about 20 inches apart from each other. Had they been tied together, they'd have remained that way even after the cords were removed. FW has not spoken publicly about what occurred in the wine cellar with JR, but I hope he told police.

 

[questfortrue]

The doll might have been meant for Jenny. It’s just a bit unusual to see it tossed in there, if it were meant for her cousin. But could be. And how frustrating that we don’t know if JR picked it up off the blanket and tossed it aside!

However, one other thing which could speak to it being something given to JB concerns a second Barbie. This other Barbie that some on ACR claim is a 1995 collector’s Barbie, is found on JB’s other twin bed next to the Santa Bear.

As some probably remember, there was a nation-wide search for the source of the Santa Bear found on JB’s bed. (It was finally identified as a prize JB won in the Little Miss Christmas contest in December 1996.)

The bear photo was published on the Michigan Coldwater Police Website. Someone who saw that photo didn’t identify the bear, but did identify a Barbie doll seen to the right of the stuffed bear. It was claimed by a poster Deanner on the old JW website that it was "Rapunzel" from Children’s Collector Series, 1995. Made me wonder if “Collector” Barbie dolls were becoming a parent’s tradition for JB.

 

[DeeDee249]

The doll might have been meant for Jenny. It’s just a bit unusual to see it tossed in there, if it were meant for her cousin. But could be. And how frustrating that we don’t know if JR picked it up off the blanket and tossed it aside!

However, one other thing which could speak to it being something given to JB concerns a second Barbie. This other Barbie that some on ACR claim is a 1995 collector’s Barbie, is found on JB’s other twin bed next to the Santa Bear.

As some probably remember, there was a nation-wide search for the source of the Santa Bear found on JB’s bed. (It was finally identified as a prize JB won in the Little Miss Christmas contest in December 1996.)

The bear photo was published on the Michigan Coldwater Police Website. Someone who saw that photo didn’t identify the bear, but did identify a Barbie doll seen to the right of the stuffed bear. It was claimed by a poster Deanner on the old JW website that it was "Rapunzel" from Children’s Collector Series, 1995. Made me wonder if “Collector” Barbie dolls were becoming a parent’s tradition for JB.

I'll have to go back and look at the photo of the twin bed with the bear because I don't recall a Barbie on the bed.

 

[DeeDee249]

I'll have to go back and look at the photo of the twin bed with the bear because I don't recall a Barbie on the bed.

I went back to look at that photo- The bear is plainly seen, and there is a large baby doll in a white dress and bonnet sitting up on the pillow at the head of the bed. There are some clothes on the bed, including what was said to be the black velvet pants she wore to the White's. But I honestly cannot see anything that I can identify as a Barbie doll, Rapunzel or otherwise. There is something that looks like a bit of blue cloth- possibly that is the Rapunzel doll but it isn't easily identified as a doll in that photo.

 

[questfortrue]

I went back to look at that photo- The bear is plainly seen, and there is a large baby doll in a white dress and bonnet sitting up on the pillow at the head of the bed. There are some clothes on the bed, including what was said to be the black velvet pants she wore to the White's. But I honestly cannot see anything that I can identify as a Barbie doll, Rapunzel or otherwise. There is something that looks like a bit of blue cloth- possibly that is the Rapunzel doll but it isn't easily identified as a doll in that photo.

Thank you, DeeDee249. This was on the acr web page of suspicious evidence. I can kind of see a doll with a pointy hat, but maybe my eyes deceive me!! I’ve no idea, even if it is a doll, that I would recognize it as a Barbie. (You know how some people can see unicorns in the cloud formations. And it may mean nada. )

http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-evidence.htm

 

[midwest mama]

http://m.barbiecollector.com/img/c/...e/product_detail_main/products/main/13016.jpg

Not sure if this will copy correctly. Found the Barbie Doll as Rapunzel with issue date of 1.1.1995. Looks very much like image next to the bear, kind of tucked under it's arm and leg.

 

[Mama2JML]

http://m.barbiecollector.com/img/c/...e/product_detail_main/products/main/13016.jpg

Not sure if this will copy correctly. Found the Barbie Doll as Rapunzel with issue date of 1.1.1995. Looks very much like image next to the bear, kind of tucked under it's arm and leg.

I think you're right. Good eye, midwest mama!

 

[UKGuy]

http://m.barbiecollector.com/img/c/...e/product_detail_main/products/main/13016.jpg

Not sure if this will copy correctly. Found the Barbie Doll as Rapunzel with issue date of 1.1.1995. Looks very much like image next to the bear, kind of tucked under it's arm and leg.

midwest mama,
Well that is interesting, especially if as you suggest its a barbie beneath the bear? If you consider the context of the barbie doll lying in the wine-cellar, its likely to be have been dumped there, why would BR open a doll box up, when he is allegedly looking for underwear? Why did Patsy never inform the investigators that she had allegedly purchased the barbie doll for her niece?

Put another way, if the doll played no role in JonBenet's death or staging, why would anyone open it up, or even bother with it given the other issues that required the R's attention?

I would speculate that the barbie doll played some role in a prior staging?


.

 

[DeeDee249]

http://m.barbiecollector.com/img/c/...e/product_detail_main/products/main/13016.jpg

Not sure if this will copy correctly. Found the Barbie Doll as Rapunzel with issue date of 1.1.1995. Looks very much like image next to the bear, kind of tucked under it's arm and leg.

Still not seeing it. The Rapunzel Barbie has a sparkly dress that is all blue, with gold trim at the bottom. The fabric on the bed (still not seeing a doll) is white with blue trim at the bottom and what looks like gold braid or ric-rac about an inch up the hem, not along the bottom as with the Rapunzel Barbie. Thanks for finding the image of the doll, so we can compare it.

 

[elannia]

Still not seeing it. The Rapunzel Barbie has a sparkly dress that is all blue, with gold trim at the bottom. The fabric on the bed (still not seeing a doll) is white with blue trim at the bottom and what looks like gold braid or ric-rac about an inch up the hem, not along the bottom as with the Rapunzel Barbie. Thanks for finding the image of the doll, so we can compare it.

Hey DeeDee, the Barbies head is almost like its under the bears arm. If thats what you mean by not seeing it

 

[DeeDee249]

midwest mama,
Well that is interesting, especially if as you suggest its a barbie beneath the bear? If you consider the context of the barbie doll lying in the wine-cellar, its likely to be have been dumped there, why would BR open a doll box up, when he is allegedly looking for underwear? Why did Patsy never inform the investigators that she had allegedly purchased the barbie doll for her niece?

Put another way, if the doll played no role in JonBenet's death or staging, why would anyone open it up, or even bother with it given the other issues that required the R's attention?

I would speculate that the barbie doll played some role in a prior staging?


.

I don't feel the Barbie played any part at all in prior staging. Years ago, there were some photos of the wine cellar with that Barbie - they were a bit better quality, and in those photos, the doll seemed to be in its cellophane box. If the doll was intended for Jenny, it may have been wrapped in a larger box or package that already had the panty set. Yet I also can consider that JB may have gotten that 1996 Holiday Barbie as a much-wanted gift from Santa that year. She may have been really excited to have it. (we all know she was not too excited about the MyTwinn doll Patsy had custom-made to look like JB- pageant dress and tiara included). If that was the case, I can see the parents wapping it up with her, and it was simply tossed aside when JR unwrapped her. It is laying carelessly on the floor, and obviously JR was preoccupied with the horrific task of carrying up the dead and stiff body of his daughter. It certainly wouldn't worry about where the doll landed when he unwrapped the blanket.

 

[midwest mama]

The Barbie on the bed with the Santa bear half plopped over it tells us that JB most likely liked having the fancy costumed Barbies close by. Very likely, as DeeDee249 theorizes, JB was coveting her new 1996 Holiday Barbie the night she came home from the White's party....maybe after PR prepared her for bed, (two ponytails) as she went to the kitchen to have a pineapple treat?

It would be all the more reason to build the theory that JB was not carried up to bed asleep. If the new Barbie would have been tucked into bed with her and an intruder had gone into her room, stungunned her to carry her off, surely he would not have grabbed up the doll too?

 

[midwest mama]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=63662&d=1416210114

DeeDee249.....try looking at the photo qft posted and seeing the bear's foot as laying across the middle of the bttom of the Rapunzel skirt. The golden braid edge of the skirt is running horizontally just over the bear's left foot.

 

[andreww]

midwest mama,
Well that is interesting, especially if as you suggest its a barbie beneath the bear? If you consider the context of the barbie doll lying in the wine-cellar, its likely to be have been dumped there, why would BR open a doll box up, when he is allegedly looking for underwear? Why did Patsy never inform the investigators that she had allegedly purchased the barbie doll for her niece?

Put another way, if the doll played no role in JonBenet's death or staging, why would anyone open it up, or even bother with it given the other issues that required the R's attention?

I would speculate that the barbie doll played some role in a prior staging?


.

I think the open doll might show that JB was alive in that WC. Possibly she snuck down there and opened it herself. Patsy, already upset with JB over her for not liking the custom doll and not wanting to wear the matching outfits, loses it and cracks her on the head.

I don't think anyone could mistake a wrapped Barbie for a package of underwear, so why was it unwrapped? Burke wouldn't do it. John wouldn't do it. And why would Patsy do it? If that doll was indeed wrapped and meant for someone else, there is only one person in that house that would have completely opened it. And that person happens to be the one that ended up dead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mama2JML]

Didn't someone ask Chief Kolar about the purported doll in the wine cellar? I thought he denied knowledge of it? That wouldn't mean a doll definitely wasn't there...

I do see it, but I was expecting to. Could it instead be something entirely different protruding from the box pictured at the bottom right of the image? The item in the background looks to be shaped like a leaf. Garland, with poinsettias or holly, maybe?...

IDK, just my :twocents:.

 

[Mama2JML]

See Linda7NJ's post, #758:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ppenings-of-December-26&p=9950893#post9950893

 

[UKGuy]

I don't feel the Barbie played any part at all in prior staging. Years ago, there were some photos of the wine cellar with that Barbie - they were a bit better quality, and in those photos, the doll seemed to be in its cellophane box. If the doll was intended for Jenny, it may have been wrapped in a larger box or package that already had the panty set. Yet I also can consider that JB may have gotten that 1996 Holiday Barbie as a much-wanted gift from Santa that year. She may have been really excited to have it. (we all know she was not too excited about the MyTwinn doll Patsy had custom-made to look like JB- pageant dress and tiara included). If that was the case, I can see the parents wapping it up with her, and it was simply tossed aside when JR unwrapped her. It is laying carelessly on the floor, and obviously JR was preoccupied with the horrific task of carrying up the dead and stiff body of his daughter. It certainly wouldn't worry about where the doll landed when he unwrapped the blanket.

DeeDee249,
Well for years people were citing static as a reason why the pink barbie gown was found in the wine-cellar. Why would the parents wrap, what apears to be, a partially opened barbie doll into the blanket? Stuff related to JonBenet's death has not arrived in the wine-cellar by accident, its there for a purpose, either as staging or to be removed from sight.

Bear in mind JonBenet was redressed prior to being wrapped in the white blanket, so any unwanted items would have been visible and for something as bulky as a doll, evident to the sense of touch.

The only scenario in which I can see a parent wrapping JonBenet in the blanket which includes the doll by accident, might be JR relocating JonBenet to the wine-cellar, inadvertently bringing the doll along for the ride. Yet the packaging seems to be present?

Also why would the R's envisage a psychopathic abductor might bother about wrapping JonBenet in a blanket, whats the percentage? No blanket means the Intruder still leaves with his intended target.

Another aspect is that JonBenet is wearing no socks, but is wearing her white gap top, so where did the latter originate from, i.e. did someone fetch it, why not her own size underwear then, ditto the longjohns!

I suspect there is more to learn , and possibly further forensic evidence to be revealed regarding the wine-cellar since there seems to be no satisfactory explanation for either the barbie doll or gown!

.

 

[elannia]

Didn't someone ask Chief Kolar about the purported doll in the wine cellar? I thought he denied knowledge of it? That wouldn't mean a doll definitely wasn't there...

I do see it, but I was expecting to. Could it instead be something entirely different protruding from the box pictured at the bottom right of the image? The item in the background looks to be shaped like a leaf. Garland, with poinsettias or holly, maybe?...

IDK, just my :twocents:.

Hey Mama, Im not sure exactly what im looking at. In the 3 photos I see the blanket, the doll, and the legos. So the question is are you talking about the boxes where the legos are?

 

[Mama2JML]

Hey Mama, Im not sure exactly what im looking at. In the 3 photos I see the blanket, the doll, and the legos. So the question is are you talking about the boxes where the legos are?

I've probably confused others, as well. I should have added the photo to which I was referring. Sorry! :blushing:

Here it is:

 

[DeDee]

Call me old fashioned or a nerd or anything else but there is no way I purchase panties for anyone other than my own children. I don't care how special the panties are. Panties are considered intimate apparel and an odd present to give to even a cousin.

The doll in the wine cellar doesn't seem to have enough dimension to be a Barbie doll. She mostly appears to be flat. That would fall in line with Kolar's denying a Barbie doll being in the WC.

My main purpose for relying is that I have not seen Linda7NJ on the forums in a long time. She was posting several times a day on the Michael Brown in Ferguson forum and suddenly stopped about two months ago. I do hope she and her son are alright.