Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #3

[Rumpole]

We need to keep in mind that evidence confirming computer use, for instance, does not show WHO was using the computer. GA could have been using the computer on the morning of 16th.

 

[JWG]

What exactly points to this being an accident? If we aren't suppose to look at her actions afterwards as evidence, than not being abusive before shouldn't factor into thinking this was an accident...

What points to it being a premeditated murder? While rumors run far and wide, the actual evidence released by LE to date is clearly inconclusive. I've gone over the reasons why it looks like an accident in the previous posts on this thread, and right now all I see as rebuttal is that she did not call 911.

The net is, the evidence released to date supports a charge of negligent homicide (an accidental death due to KC's negligence), with a whole slew of charges coming as a result of what she did following the death. She will likely spend the rest of her life in prison as a result of all these charges. I just don't think it will be due to murder 1.

 

[JWG]

We need to keep in mind that evidence confirming computer use, for instance, does not show WHO was using the computer. GA could have been using the computer on the morning of 16th.

But he was not, because photobucket timestamps on KC's account show she was uploading pictures during that time.

 

[jon_burrows]

Indigo, I think this is the most plausible theory I've heard yet. I think Casey is cruel and could have used the duct tape to smother her. The intentional drowning makes sense except for the duct tape. But, Casey could have put duct tape on Caylee to silence her then throw her in the pool. Caylee could have been crying for Cindy (her main caregiver).

Note: Please don't read this scenario if you are sensitive to murder vs. accident theory. It involves speculation and opinion on my part. and I don't want to cause any offense to those who believe in an accident. I respect the brilliant posters, such as JWG, who believe this was an unintentional, but am not able to see it in the same light.


It occurred to me that even though Casey gave a false statement to the police, she may have "marked" certain actual timing spots in her story as she created it.

With that in mind, I thought it might be interesting to try to reconstruct the events of June 16 by using Casey's original statement as a template. Please feel free to point out any blind spots or glaring errors:

Casey's statement in bold - my comments follow in plain type:

1. I got off work, left Universal, driving back to pick up Caylee like a normal day

Casey pretended to go to work like every other day-- waited for George to leave-- then returned home with Caylee.

2. and I show up to the apartment, knock on the door. Nobody answers

Nobody is home at the Anthony house, as planned.

3. So I called Zenaida's cell phone and it is out of service. It says the phone is no longer in service.

This is the time frame that Casey marks Caylee as missing. My belief is that she began carrying out plans at this time. ( I'll spare the details of my theory here, but it involves an intentional drowning)

4."So, I sit down on the steps and wait for a little bit to see if it was maybe a fluke.If something happened.

Casey's words here don't show a proactive position. Rather she "sits" and "waits" to make sure this is not a fluke. I believe she is waiting to see that her plans have been successful. During this waiting she makes a 36-minutecall to Amy. Then a call to Jesse. There is also some computer activity.

By this time, I believe Casey's intitial plans have been carried out and Caylee is now deceased. She makes several calls to her parents, probably to satisfy herself that they on schedule and not expected home early. Casey fears being discovered at this point.

5. AND TIME PASSED, I didn't hear from anyone ,no one showed up to the house

Casey is aware of a chunk of time here in which nobody calls or shows up. I believe this is when she first hid Caylee's body (MOO on the Anthony's property) When she is finished Casey leaves the Anthony home.

6. so I went over to Jay Blanchard Park to check a couple of other places, where maybe possibly they would have gone to a couple a stores, just regular places I know Zenaida shows at, and where she's taken Caylee before.

Casey considers a permanent disposal site, goes over kidnapping scenarios (stores, parks, etc.) in her search. (makes a call to Tony).

7. "And, after about 7 o'clock, when I still haven't heard anything,
Up until 7 o'clock, Casey hadn't heard back from her parents. She then gets a call from the Anthony home at 7:45, which goes unanswered.

8. I was getting pretty upset, pretty frantic and went to a neutral place.I didn't really want to come home, I didn't know what I'd say about not knowing where Caylee was. Still hoping I would get a call or, you know, find out that Caylee was coming back so I can go get her."

Casey goes to Tony's--not wanting to "come home." She shows concern for a time when she can return to get Caylee.
--------------------------------------------------------
June 18

Casey returns - backs into the driveway, borrows a shovel from the neighbor. At this time she retrieves Caylee and mistakenly punctures the bag/s while doing so. She doesn't notice the leak until she places the body in her trunk. Panicked by the leakage and resulting odor, she disposes of the body as quickly as possible--40 seconds later on Suburban Drive.

 

[jon_burrows]

I think one can make too much of a lack of a 911 call. I had a rather serious accident with a hand-held power saw seven years ago (kicked back into my knee). Once I dragged myself into the house and got to the phone, I called my wife at work. I never thought of 911. Shock will do that.

I can imagine KC initially being in shock over finding her dead or apparently dead child in the pool. She may have tried to revive her herself. Why did she not seek help? Who knows exactly, but again I believe fear of Cindy played a large role. I don't think very much time elapsed before KC switched into "cover-my-a$$" mode.

Not saying it is normal or justifiable, just plausible. We cannot assume everyone is like us.

I don't see any fear of Cindy in the jailhouse calls. In fact, quite the opposite. She was combative, rude, and cursing at her. Cindy had to plead with her...."Casey, please don't waste your call by yelling at me." Casey blamed Cindy for being arrested on a whim. I think the only fear Casey had of Cindy was Cindy calling the cops on her.

 

[Rumpole]

But he was not, because photobucket timestamps on KC's account show she was uploading pictures during that time.

I bow to your superior knowledge. I am relatively new to this mountain of information. I have tried to absorb as much as possible, but I have become comfortably numb.

Even so, is there evidence that it was an acident?

 

[ks1]

I don't think that it was KC searching Chloroform. I think that it was CA. After reading the emails to her mother, I am even more convinced. She was in a very unhappy marriage, even spoke of suicide, along with the fact that she would have to pay him alimony. I think she wanted to off her significant other, and make it appear as if it was in self defense.

 

[reeseeva]

But he was not, because photobucket timestamps on KC's account show she was uploading pictures during that time.

Do you know what the pictures were that she was uploading? Is there a link to this? What time of the morning was this being done? From all info for the wee hours of the 15th to morning of the 16th she was busy.......when did she sleep?:waitasec:

 

[MaedchenX]

A cover up, to me, implies that an individual is concerned for the ramifications for their actions and/or inactions. It is both calculated and self-serving and implies an awareness of culpability. Admittedly, it is very difficult for me to believe that a loving mother would be more concerned about the consequences that might befall her because of her percieved negligence in her child's tragic death rather than contact EMS, the authorities, or even family and friends. Moreover for someone to contrive and maintain a months long lie that has caused the suffering of her family, consumed untold resources, and attracted the attention and scrutiny of the public seems quite a lot of effort if it were indeed an accident. While this is all circumstantial, it is persuasive enough for me to consider that Casey killed her daughter purposefully.

 

[jon_burrows]

Also consider KC's behavior towards her daughter in every single interview with friends and family. Not one ever mentions anything but a loving and doting mother - ever. They do not hold back on her lying and thieving. While it might make an interesting plot in a crime novel, I do not see KC suddenly doing something as inhumane and cruel as wrapping duct tape around the head of her live daughter.

I have to respectfully disagree on the loving, doting mother aspect. No one knows what goes on behind doors. I highly doubt Casey was a loving, devoted mother when she was alone with Caylee. Casey was very good at being a phony. I'm sure Amy thought she was a good friend until she realized she was robbing her blind. Casey pretended to be lots of things in front of her friends. Looking back at past cases, S. Smith appeared to be a loving, devoted mother yet she strapped her children in car seats and drown them in a lake. S. Peterson is another supposed loving husband and father to be. He killed his pregnant wife and dumped her in the bay without a second thought. My point is, Casey isn't going to abuse or neglect Caylee in front of people...that rarely happens.

The most compelling reason for Casey not being a loving devoted mother is Cindy wanted to get custody of Caylee. It's pretty clear on the 911 call that Cindy alluded to that fact when she was put on hold. I highly doubt Cindy would have entertained the thought of custody if she felt Casey was a good mother.

 

[impatientredhead]

A cover up, to me, implies that an individual is concerned for the ramifications for their actions and/or inactions. It is both calculated and self-serving and implies an awareness of culpability. Admittedly, it is very difficult for me to believe that a loving mother would be more concerned about the consequences that might befall her because of her percieved negligence in her child's tragic death rather than contact EMS, the authorities, or even family and friends. Moreover for someone to contrive and maintain a months long lie that has caused the suffering of her family, consumed untold resources, and attracted the attention and scrutiny of the public seems quite a lot of effort if it were indeed an accident. While this is all circumstantial, it is persuasive enough for me to consider that Casey killed her daughter purposefully.

Totally agree. If I am understanding the accident theory, she didn't seek help of any sort, confided in no one, wrapped her daughter in garbage bags and tossed her in the woods, then went dancing and by all accounts was not subdued or upset even once, then lied to her family, the police, got arrested, saw how much pain her parents were in not knowing, kept on lying, got bonded out saw that her parents were in danger with protesters escalating in front of their home, turned down a limited immunity deal, all while her child rots around the corner, and then saw a grand jury come back with a capital offense case, and she is still silent.

This is NOTHING like the accidental deaths that have been posted in the other links. Nothing. The person described above isn't covering up an accident, they are cold and heartless, they don't care who they are hurting, including their own toddler.

 

[JohnVaughanCauthen]

Right, this is nothing like any mother/child murder case: could someone else who is cold and determined be involved?

I fear they are using the Casey Anthony case to radically increase the state's power to take children away from parents who don't have the right attitude. It was implied in the JonBenet case parents who dress up their children and put them in beauty pageants also have a tendency to murder their children. They were being framed for murder, while authorities mysteriously lost and ignored evidence, same as is this case.

The most telling contradiction so far is that four witnesses have testified to hearing or seeing Caylee alive after June 24 when the decomposition smell was strong in the trunk.

Does some group want to give the state Brave New World/1984 powers over the care of children?

Casey testified to Detective Melich Caylee had been missing one full day before she talked to him on July 12. Caylee was alive on July 11 according to Casey's testimony to Detective Melich. Did he forget that? Kiomarie said she heard Caylee have a conversation with Casey during a phone call on July 9th. Jesse testified he heard Caylee in the background during a phone call on June 24. A woman had a conversation with a little girl at the Atlanta airport. The girl looked like Caylee. She was wearing shoes Caylee had worn in photos, and she called herself Cayleemarieantiny. That's four documented witnesses to Caylee being alive after the decomposition smell was noticed in trunk.

Did zealot people plant the smell in the trunk when Caylee wasn't even dead?

 

[Rumpole]

From all that I have seen and read of KC, if there was, say, a pool accident , she would have sought assistance to deal with the body, as she did with flat tires and no gas. She would have had no trouble explaining that it was not really her fault. She would have sworn that it was CA or GA who left the ladder in the wrong place etc. Not a problem fot KC at all. As I have said before it is possible that one of her ideas to explain the death was to fake a pool accident.

 

[wicket]

Bodies are not supposed to be found in woods. If they are uncovered in woods then there are two reasons: they went of their own volition, collapsed and died or they were placed there. So.....are we to believe Caylee did not do the former? Let's hope the defense doesn't try to say she wandered away and fell into a trash bag.
My feeling is Caylee died from neglect and abuse at the hands of her Mom. Do not know the ins and outs of why, how, when but do believe that she has always depended on her Mother to come to the rescue, use common sense, talk quietly to Caylee, get her to sleep, eat, or calm down. Without her Mom, I think Casey was dealing with a Caylee who desperatley was calling for "Grandma...." constantly!
Not that Casey intentionally wanted to neglect/abuse her daughter - she just was preoccupied with sex because to get sex was a sign of love. There's an old saying: men make love to get sex - whereas women have sex to get love.

 

[Chess613]

He stated this VERY clearly in his interview with the FBI. This will come up for sure if the case ever goes to trial. He is adament and very clear about this fact.

Who is "he"?

 

[JohnVaughanCauthen]

George stated he very clearly heard someone around the pool. Pink Panther says that will certainly come up in court.

Okay, if that observation certainly comes up, will the fact that four witnesses testified to hearing or seeing Caylee after George and Cindy noticed the decomposition smell certainly come up?

If one witness correctly heard or saw Caylee after the decomposition smell was noticed: that puts this case on its ear. You can't have a strong decomposition smell, then you die.

So who was making noise by the pool? What evidence were they planting?

 

[Rumpole]

But he was not, because photobucket timestamps on KC's account show she was uploading pictures during that time.

I have gone back and read your posts especially the computer details 12-10-2008.
Great work.
Certainly acidental pool death fits, but equally, a purposeful act of violence could have occured at that time also.
Also Caylee could have already been dead before the morning computer use started. KC could have been looking for helpful info, or even simply filling in time untill she had to pretend to be going to work and then return after GA left. GA could have been mistaken or lying about seeing KC and Caylee leaving or he could have seen just KC or perhaps KC carrying dead Caylee "asleep" in a sheet or whatever.
When KC returned afternoon 16th it could be the first of several days she returned trying to fake an accident or otherwise dispose of the body.

Overall I think she would have liked it to be an accident which she would have explained away and she was infact trying to stage something like that?

 

[txsvicki]

I don't think that it was KC searching Chloroform. I think that it was CA. After reading the emails to her mother, I am even more convinced. She was in a very unhappy marriage, even spoke of suicide, along with the fact that she would have to pay him alimony. I think she wanted to off her significant other, and make it appear as if it was in self defense.

I'm almost positive that the documents state that Cindy was proven to be at work when those things were looked up online. Leonard did say that he felt it was one of the Anthony's looking up those things in order to cash in on a life insurance policy. Just my opinion, but I don't think it was Cindy.

 

[JWG]

Do you know what the pictures were that she was uploading? Is there a link to this? What time of the morning was this being done? From all info for the wee hours of the 15th to morning of the 16th she was busy.......when did she sleep?:waitasec:

Muzikman had obtained a copy of the subpoenaed Photobucket CD back in September from the state's attorney office and noted some pictures that appear to have been taken from Fusian were uploaded around 10AM the morning of the 16th. See calendar link here.

Based on her cell activity in the wee hours of the morning, she got perhaps four hours of sleep.

 

[eddeva]

Overall I think she would have liked it to be an accident which she would have explained away and she was infact trying to stage something like that?

*respectfully snipped*

i've wondered about this idea too poirot. maybe she staged herself a nice little accident then called mommy and daddy expecting them to fly into action .... except being a sociopath and therefore not understanding normal emotions it never occurred to her that everyone might still be so pi$$ed at the fight from the night before that they chose to completely ignore her calls.
just a thought.