Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #3

[itsreenw]

Why would he tell her that she can talk to FBI agents without her attorney? Just askin.



Ok, I see but I have some questions that need answering.

1. How was KC making money the last two years and why did it stop in May?

2. Why is LA so concerned with talking to her on a recorded line? What is he trying to hide?

3. What was it he would have asked in a different way?

4. What can we do to find Caylee? I believe he already knows she's dead so what does that mean?

5. If LA doesn't know she's already dead then a lot of this still doesn't make sense.

6. LEE: Right but at the same time we still we just need to figure out how we can be clear on what ever we’re giving to them, so even if we have to you know speak very direct or we can’t really speak in generalities with them, with anybody is what I’m finding out . Or if we tell them I’m not completely sure on the spelling or I’m not completely sure on this or that. They take everything exactly up front to the ‘T’. Exactly how you provide it. So if it’s off at all they don’t even think to look in any other areas….

What other areas is he afraid of them looking into?

7. Why is he soooo concerned about finding her blackjack if she kept swapping out the sim card. Everything should be on her phone the cops have.

8. What does this exchange mean?

LEE: So you were up there for fun or whatever?

CASEY: It wasn’t necessarily fun, but yes not through work at that moment…

Everybody already knows she wasn't working for Universal so what does LA mean by "whatever"?

9. What does this mean?

10. LEE: Where did you get this phone from? Like how was it provided to you?


Not just where did you get it but "how was it provided to you"?

IMO, "provided to you" means she didn't get it on her own so who did provide it her and why?


11. LEE: Was this a phone, is this another personal cell phone of yours?

If she's not working then what could it be other than a personal phone?

12. LEE: Ok, so tell me. So if you lost the physical phone itself, aside from searching for it, how would you go about finding this? How should I go about finding your phone?

Again, why is finding this phone so important?

13. What is Jester Kodak?

14. Answering these questions would make things very clear, IMO. :crazy:

BTW, I'm a big Sopranos fan! Maybe I'm a bit too conspiratorial but if I'm right I get to :woohoo: and go Link to you! :crazy:

According to emails I read, CA's brother Rick said that KC bought that phone using a stolen check from her grandfather's account that paid for his care in the nursing home. The phone was $354. When asked why she did it, she said her job at Universal wanted the employees to get new phones and if they paid for them themselves, they'd be reimbursed or something to that effect. Rick had seen the bank statement and was furious.

LA and his uncle Rick exchanged emails but I don't know the content. I believe Rick told LA how that phone was 'provided' to her...with a stolen check. I think LA may turn on KC in the end.

 

[Steely Dan]

OMG I am so LMAO right now, you are too funny! And I just noticed that you are in Rochester ( I was born and raised there but now am in Sunny San Diego) Anyways, I digress..

Was that really necessary? It's 9 degrees here! :furious:

I only have a few specific answers for you...

on money making.. she was stealing it or taking it from CA, GA, Caylee, LA and anyone else she could get it from although I do think there was chance that she may have been hustling in some shape or form.

That's the big question if she was hustling was it for herself or through someone else? What does hustling mean exactly. She didn't really start stealing from friends until last May? Why?

As for the other burning questions Lee has. I just think he is trying to pin her down with things that he doesn't understand about her and bull story without actually exposing any further crimes/lies to LE.

First and bull is very appropriate with her stories.

Second, exactly what I'm asking what crimes and lies does he know about?

It seems to me that he is curious about the second phone but doesn't come across as necessarily buying the fact that she had one. I think the phone is important to Lee early on because he recognizes the fact that she lived by her cell/texts and one should easily be able to corroborate her story of Zani, Jeff etc. by checking her cell records.

Anyway, I look forward to the conclusion of this case so I can :woohoo: to you!

You'll never get to :woohoo: to me. I'm righter than you is! :blowkiss:

no one really knows but many here have speculated that casey was involved in some area of the sex industry--it would explain the 'bad pictures' if she did something unsavoury on a webcam or the like. others think she was a call girl of some form.



maybe she didn't. only she says she did and we know what her word's worth.



again, it could have been for work--the kind of work she wouldn't want anyone knowing about.

sorry i'm not much help to you stealy. i think i still have more questions than you do and i still feel like a newbie.
i hope someone more knowledgeable comes along.

No, you're a help. We're here on this thread to postulate the meaning of the events.

As for working in the sex industry (the searches for escort services on the web) was she solo or working for someone else. If she was working for someone else don't you think they'd be a little concerned over this whole thing?

Not asking you specifically just a general question for all reading this. Even you Nelliebell.

 

[Steely Dan]

According to emails I read, CA's brother Rick said that KC bought that phone using a stolen check from her grandfather's account that paid for his care in the nursing home. The phone was $354. When asked why she did it, she said her job at Universal wanted the employees to get new phones and if they paid for them themselves, they'd be reimbursed or something to that effect. Rick had seen the bank statement and was furious.

LA and his uncle Rick exchanged emails but I don't know the content. I believe Rick told LA how that phone was 'provided' to her...with a stolen check. I think LA may turn on KC in the end.

What was her job at "Universal" that I believe is a code name for her real job? If it was working for an escort agency then I can understand the need for a separate phone.

 

[itsreenw]

Didn't read the whole thread so forgive me if this has been posted.

I'm thinking this pretty much sums up the time of Caylee's death. On 6/16/08 between 3-4pm

http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20081106/BREAKINGNEWS/81106002/1006/news01

snip...

Pipitone said he tracked Anthony from Monday, June 16 -- the day Caylee was last seen alive -- until Monday, June 30 -- the day Anthony's abandoned car was towed from an Orange County Amscot.

The trunk of Anthony's car had a stench that investigators claim was from Caylee's body, Pipitone reported.

According to records, Anthony's cell phone "pinged" 20 different cell towers 754 times in the two-week period. Each time, her cell phone received or sent a text message or phone call, Pipitone reported.

Ninety-seven percent of the pings were to either her boyfriend's apartment near Winter Park, her friend's home in Orlando -- where she sometimes stayed -- her parents' home off Chickasaw Trail and the Fusion nightclub, where she was photographed partying while Caylee was missing, Pipitone said.

The other 3 percent of the pings -- especially during three days in June -- have raised questions, Pipitone said.

On Monday, June 16, Anthony's father, George Anthony, said he he saw his daughter and granddaughter leave his house at about 1 p.m.

"But if they did leave at that time, the cell records show they did not go far. Casey's cell phone communicated that afternoon through the same three cell towers she could reach from her home," Pipitone said.

At 1 p.m., Anthony made a 14-minute call to her boyfriend, Tony Lazzaro. At 1:44 p.m., she made a 36-minute call to her then-best friend, Amy Huizenga. At 2:52 p.m., there was an 11-minute call with ex-fiance Jesse Grund. All of the calls used cell towers that can be reached from her parents' home, Pipitone said.

But at 4:11 p.m., Anthony began trying to reach her mother, Cindy Anthony, making four attempts in two minutes, according to records. Anthony then traveled north from her parents' home and called Lazzaro for one minute at 4:19 p.m., Pipitone reported. Two minutes later, she talked to Grund for a minute, and tried to call her mother again at 4:25 p.m., Pipitone said.

There was no other communication from Anthony's cell phone until a call was made to Lazzaro's apartment at 5:57 p.m., records show.

 

[eddeva]

As for working in the sex industry (the searches for escort services on the web) was she solo or working for someone else. If she was working for someone else don't you think they'd be a little concerned over this whole thing?

that and the fact that i'm sure by now one of her 'clients' would've sold their story (at best) makes me think she had to be flying solo online. maybe an add on the net, or this infamous craigslist thing--don't ask me i still dunno how it figures into this myself. all the discussions on it are months old, i think.

What was her job at "Universal" that I believe is a code name for her real job? If it was working for an escort agency then I can understand the need for a separate phone.

i think she called herself an 'events planner'. if she were taking ....umm .... how can i say this w/o being banned .... private orders she may have used a phone for that.
for some reason she had to 86 the blackjack, but i wouldn't want to offer a guess except that it held a secret. something she felt she had to hide whether it was incriminating or just plain shameful. even bundy experienced shame.

 

[itsreenw]

What was her job at "Universal" that I believe is a code name for her real job? If it was working for an escort agency then I can understand the need for a separate phone.

I think KC just wanted a new, upgraded phone with all the fancy gadgets. No need for it. She just wanted it. Her social life was very important to her and that phone was her life line, so to speak.

I don't think KC had any job. Not even as an escort. I doubt she sees herself as hooker material. She seems to have an over inflated ego.
This may sound terrible but I think KC would rather give it away than sell it. I think she would refuse money for sex and act offended if it was offered. Then it would be work and not fun and we know the party girl just wants to have fun.

Rick's email to CA said he was aware that KC had run up thousands of dollars in credit cards so I think she's been living off CA's credit cards over the last couple years. KC's job was probably stealing checks and running up credit cards from unsuspecting family and friends.

 

[Pedrosmom]

This may be a long shot but I always believed LA was talking in code to Casey, maybe Casey wasn't following everything but could it be that the "blackjack" they are referring to is actually Caylee? It sounds too intense of a conversation about a phone that has no sim card and would basicallly offer nothing to the case.

IIRC, Casey had given Lee a location of the ATT store or something and it included "Suburban" in it. I can't find it but I remember her saying something about Suburban to Lee, anyone?

 

[Steely Dan]

that and the fact that i'm sure by now one of her 'clients' would've sold their story (at best) makes me think she had to be flying solo online. maybe an add on the net, or this infamous craigslist thing--don't ask me i still dunno how it figures into this myself. all the discussions on it are months old, i think.

I find it very easy to believe that one of her clients wouldn't have come forward and probably never will.

If you're a married man or have a serious relationship going on your not going to come forward at all, IMO.

Also, you're suddenly tangled up in this whole media circus. You'd be hounded by the press and I don't think anyone who patronized a hooker would want that.

If you're just a lonely guy then you wouldn't come forward because you could jeopardize your employment now and in the future for what would be a semi-paltry amount and great embarrassment. You may also have been threatened. Coming forward would bring down a large escort agency and lead to criminal prosecutions.

A lot of "call girls" go with agency's because they are safer. They keep track of the girls and so being the victim of a serial killer or such is a lot less. She was way too pretty for a street corner, IMO. Think Julia Roberts in "Pretty Woman" I never saw it but I think I'm close.

i think she called herself an 'events planner'. if she were taking ....umm .... how can i say this w/o being banned .... private orders she may have used a phone for that.
for some reason she had to 86 the blackjack, but i wouldn't want to offer a guess except that it held a secret. something she felt she had to hide whether it was incriminating or just plain shameful. even bundy experienced shame.

I agree and it wouldn't be a stretch to believe that the agency would have a lot of concerns about that being found. Especially if it was her "work" number. I'd imagine that a lot of client phone numbers are on that thing.

 

[eddeva]

I find it very easy to believe that one of her clients wouldn't have come forward and probably never will.

If you're a married man or have a serious relationship going on your not going to come forward at all, IMO.

Also, you're suddenly tangled up in this whole media circus. You'd be hounded by the press and I don't think anyone who patronized a hooker would want that.

If you're just a lonely guy then you wouldn't come forward because you could jeopardize your employment now and in the future for what would be a semi-paltry amount and great embarrassment. You may also have been threatened. Coming forward would bring down a large escort agency and lead to criminal prosecutions.

A lot of "call girls" go with agency's because they are safer. They keep track of the girls and so being the victim of a serial killer or such is a lot less. She was way too pretty for a street corner, IMO. Think Julia Roberts in "Pretty Woman" I never saw it but I think I'm close.

i see your point, i'm just a very mistrustful of person i think. to me--someone who'd, err, had a date with casey then saw her plastered all over the national news might be truly shocked and so apt to confide in a friend (here's where the mistrust comes in) then the friend has just too juicy a story so he tells his friend and on and on.
like i said--not a trusting person.

on the other hand maybe it's just girls who confide in eachother--then get into an argument over a guy and sell you down the river.

are my talons showing?

 

[Steely Dan]

I think KC just wanted a new, upgraded phone with all the fancy gadgets. No need for it. She just wanted it. Her social life was very important to her and that phone was her life line, so to speak.

I don't think KC had any job. Not even as an escort. I doubt she sees herself as hooker material. She seems to have an over inflated ego.
This may sound terrible but I think KC would rather give it away than sell it. I think she would refuse money for sex and act offended if it was offered. Then it would be work and not fun and we know the party girl just wants to have fun.

Rick's email to CA said he was aware that KC had run up thousands of dollars in credit cards so I think she's been living off CA's credit cards over the last couple years. KC's job was probably stealing checks and running up credit cards from unsuspecting family and friends.

I respectfully disagree. Money is #1 on her list. Hooking might also explain her lack of interest in sex with the cop.

I'm curious about this:

CASEY: It wasn’t necessarily fun, but yes not through work at that moment…

I don't think she'd tell LA she was an escort and the not necessarily fun slipped out.

This may be a long shot but I always believed LA was talking in code to Casey, maybe Casey wasn't following everything but could it be that the "blackjack" they are referring to is actually Caylee? It sounds too intense of a conversation about a phone that has no sim card and would basicallly offer nothing to the case.

IIRC, Casey had given Lee a location of the ATT store or something and it included "Suburban" in it. I can't find it but I remember her saying something about Suburban to Lee, anyone?

Go to post #840 I have the transcript of the phone call and I don't see anything about Suburban in it.

Ok Nelliebell I'm changing my theory slightly. It wasn't Xanax dealing but body dealing. :woohoo:

 

[Steely Dan]

i see your point, i'm just a very mistrustful of person i think. to me--someone who'd, err, had a date with casey then saw her plastered all over the national news might be truly shocked and so apt to confide in a friend (here's where the mistrust comes in) then the friend has just too juicy a story so he tells his friend and on and on.
like i said--not a trusting person.

on the other hand maybe it's just girls who confide in eachother--then get into an argument over a guy and sell you down the river.

are my talons showing?

Meow!! :cat:

I think you're right about the bragging but then it becomes I heard from a guy who heard from a guy and I don't think the original guy would tell what agency.

 

[eddeva]

Meow!! :cat:

I think you're right about the bragging but then it becomes I heard from a guy who heard from a guy and I don't think the original guy would tell what agency.

ok you've convinced me. it could happen.

 

[GreenEyes727]

I haven't read any of the "theories" threads and that's probably because, I don't have a theory. I do think that KC will say, in the end, that she was protecting her parents by not talking - protecting them from the truth. If Caylee's body had never been found, then she could have always have had that as a consolation, if she has a conscience, that is. In her mind, she is a wonderful daughter, protecting her parents from the horrid truth of what happened to Caylee and paying the ultimate punishment by being in prison, solitary at that. Now that Caylee's body has been found, she isn't going to hit herself on the forehead as if she could have just had a V-8 and reveal all. She will continue to playout her little protection mode of her parents so that in the end, they could have as much time as possible believing that their daughter did not do this to her daughter. I guess that's a little bit of a theory.

When I followed the Laci Peterson case, I found out about Sandra Belanger and EVP. I believe that Sandra is working on the Stacy Peterson case right now. I wish she could work on this case. Anyway, I pretty much think that what Sandra came up with from "the folks" on the Other Side about what happened to pregnant Laci was as close to the truth as we were going to get. In fact, she had so many facts in her readings that were coming true that she had to take some offline, because she started to become afraid of being arrested.

So if I was going to have a theory, I would first want Sandra Belanger to do her EVP readings and then I would use those readings and the brain that God gave to me to come up with a theory.

If any of you want to refer me to a certain post or posts that are pretty much what everyone is thinking, then please do and I will read them. I wish I had so much more time for this case. I mostly read the latest in the Astrology and Psychic threads and then some of the newer threads with newer information and I watch NG as much as possible and now, JVM.

On a funny note, has anyone seen the movie "Hancock" with Will Smith? There is a small part where NG is on a tv giving Hancock a piece of her mind!

Hopefully, the trial will go forward in March. I wonder though. I am a legal secretary and I've seen trials go off for reasons such as one of the lawyers is going on vacation, the case is #4 on the list and won't be reached, scheduling conflicts, illness, etc. I am sure that the attorneys involved are working their butts off to go through all of the discovery but with such a huge amount of discovery to go through, not to mention upcoming depositions, which could also be put off for one reason or another, and the wait for the transcripts to come in and then the review that will take place of the transcripts . . . possibly including deposition digests which take forever to dictate as the attorney or paralegal doing them go line by line and give a short synopsis of the significant parts of the line or lines and then of course they have to be transcribed, unless the attorney or paralegal type as they go, which is also very time consuming . . . well, this could be detrimental to the trial going forward in March.

Thanks everyone for being here for Caylee!

 

[Steely Dan]

ok you've convinced me. it could happen.

:woohoo:

That's because I'm smart or a smartass or something like that. I forget what people call me?

Anyhoo! :clap::clap: for me!

:blushing:

I'm sooooo humble.

 

[BuzzieCat]

6. LEE: Right but at the same time we still we just need to figure out how we can be clear on what ever we’re giving to them, so even if we have to you know speak very direct or we can’t really speak in generalities with them, with anybody is what I’m finding out. Or if we tell them I’m not completely sure on the spelling or I’m not completely sure on this or that. They take everything exactly up front to the ‘T’. Exactly how you provide it. So if it’s off at all they don’t even think to look in any other areas….

I think here he's just trying to figure out what she is going to say to the authorities and what the rest of the family should say, how specific they should be, and pointing out that if they make any "errors" in what they say the authorities will disregard it and not "look in any other areas," i.e., focus on Casey instead of looking for the nonexistent nanny.

Really that whole conversation IMO is Lee trying to figure out what Casey is going to say to the authorities and trying to get her to tell him, in code, if there is anything he can look for that would help her case and prove that the nanny exists. The whole thing with the Blackjack IMO is they are talking about a phone. Sometimes a phone is just a phone! :crazy: He is hoping to get the SIM card from it that would have the nanny's # on it and prove that she exists. But the mysterious missing SIM card never existed, IMO, any more than Zani did. He's trying to find it but she can only give him a BS story because she didn't lose it in the park or anywhere.

 

[Rumpole]

Is it plausible that when JG had a 12min phone conversation with KC on 16th June, and heard Caylee in the background, it was minutes from her death and he was the last person to hear Caylee other than the murderer?
Could KC have faked talking to Caylee in a later call (27th) because she was in body disposal and cover-up mode, and she realised the significance of what JG might remember of 16th?

 

[BellaPhia]

Is it plausible that when JG had a 12min phone conversation with KC on 16th June, and heard Caylee in the background, it was minutes from her death and he was the last person to hear Caylee other than the murderer?
Could KC have faked talking to Caylee in a later call (27th) because she was in body disposal and cover-up mode, and she realised the significance of what JG might remember of 16th?

I would almost guarantee that is what happened....

 

[cyberborg]

This may be a long shot but I always believed LA was talking in code to Casey, maybe Casey wasn't following everything but could it be that the "blackjack" they are referring to is actually Caylee? It sounds too intense of a conversation about a phone that has no sim card and would basicallly offer nothing to the case.

IIRC, Casey had given Lee a location of the ATT store or something and it included "Suburban" in it. I can't find it but I remember her saying something about Suburban to Lee, anyone?

Nah, I go with the simple explanation. LA was totally focused on helping KC prove ZFG and the kidnapping because KC was claiming LE were not investigating properly and were just framing her.

Remember, LA even involved LP and RD at first, that's why he gave them the phone records. He was trying to figure out from KC, if there were two phones were there records on the other phone that provide credence to ZFG.

KC was playing along but also not being terribly helpful, providing at least three area codes to research and trying to confuse folks with the 2 phones and swapping SIM card talk.

Bottom-line, if KC had only one phone account and she was swapping the SIM card, even though some numbers may have been saved on a second phone -- they'd all appear on the same account.

LA was trying his damndest to help KC prove her innocence. This was also the time when KC said she was going to do a long letter that covered everything to help LA in his investigation. She never got around to it and LA was blaming JB for not getting info from KC when KC wasn't providing it.

 

[cyberborg]

Is it plausible that when JG had a 12min phone conversation with KC on 16th June, and heard Caylee in the background, it was minutes from her death and he was the last person to hear Caylee other than the murderer?
Could KC have faked talking to Caylee in a later call (27th) because she was in body disposal and cover-up mode, and she realised the significance of what JG might remember of 16th?

Very plausible.

It sounds like KC had snuck back home after GA went to work and was doing 'stuff' and Caylee was into things. Either due to KC's inattention, she was focused on her stuff, or because her patience was zero with Caylee given recent events -- this was when Caylee either suffered an accident or her demise.

As we all know KC was focused not only on her date that evening with AL but also determined to get out of dodge and move in with AL. AL was not keen on Caylee being there in a bachelor pad and so, Caylee was a handicap both to that nights date but also the need to move out.

KC was angry because given recent events no one was going to cut her a break and allow her to go out [ETA: KC had told everyone she was working late but had nowhere for Caylee] -- so her anger either caused her to ignore Caylee even though she was in jeopardy or she snapped and wanted to shut Caylee up.

What is shocking to me is, if Caylee did lose her life late on June 16 then either way it did not faze KC at all since she went on her date as planned and, as we saw -- was in Blockbuster at 8pm smooching with AL and renting videos.

[ETA: Unless KC had thought she had sedated Caylee and left her in the trunk, that's why she was not fazed but then discovered she was gone? Which is worse?]

KC never looked back, she spent some time to cover-up but she went onto to party hard and enjoy life and come out with endless tales as to where Caylee was and why.

So yes, if JG asked her about Caylee, highly likely, KC could have faked shouting at Caylee just to keep the story alive.

 

[kiki the parrot]

Very plausible.

It sounds like KC had snuck back home after GA went to work and was doing 'stuff' and Caylee was into things. Either due to KC's inattention, she was focused on her stuff, or because her patience was zero with Caylee given recent events -- this was when Caylee either suffered an accident or her demise.

As we all know KC was focused not only on her date that evening with AL but also determined to get out of dodge and move in with AL. AL was not keen on Caylee being there in a bachelor pad and so, Caylee was a handicap both to that nights date but also the need to move out.

KC was angry because given recent events no one was going to cut her a break and allow her to go out [ETA: KC had told everyone she was working late but had nowhere for Caylee] -- so her anger either caused her to ignore Caylee even though she was in jeopardy or she snapped and wanted to shut Caylee up.

What is shocking to me is, if Caylee did lose her life late on June 16 then either way it did not faze KC at all since she went on her date as planned and, as we saw -- was in Blockbuster at 8pm smooching with AL and renting videos.

[ETA: Unless KC had thought she had sedated Caylee and left her in the trunk, that's why she was not fazed but then discovered she was gone? Which is worse?]

KC never looked back, she spent some time to cover-up but she went onto to party hard and enjoy life and come out with endless tales as to where Caylee was and why.

So yes, if JG asked her about Caylee, highly likely, KC could have faked shouting at Caylee just to keep the story alive.

(bold mine) Agree w Hercule and you, and can see KC creating this illusion in much the same way she created the impression that Caylee was still alive by claiming to have just spoken w Caylee as late as 7/15. I don't agree that Caylee need have been longterm handicap or hindrance to KC's lifestyle or that this was a motive, since CA was offering to continue caregiving. As for that particular night, we know the following: KC and CA had fought the night prior (Father's Day), making it less likely KC, if CA knows she is still staying there, is gonna ask CA to babysit; but we also know that GA does see both girls (it's CA whom KC's avoiding) and that when he leaves for work and says goodbye to them that day, KC tells him she has to "work a late event" so not, I think, to expect either of them--as they'll "just stay at the nanny's." (Please, if you can point me to any actual document or transcript re "having nowhere for Caylee," bolded above, in which someone specifically quotes or recalls KC referring to this dilemma, I have not seen!) Maybe KC just lies to GA to avoid an argument, but planning to bring Caylee back after they're both asleep. But the whole question and in my mind, quite possibly the whole case, hinges upon this: Had AL ever agreed (via text mssgs or in long phonecall the previous nite eg) to allow KC to bring Caylee along on this occasion? What I wouldn't give to read text mssgs. between them from 7/15 and 16 (not yet released, that I can find nor can I find a transcript referring to content of their 80 min. phonecall). It's never made sense to me though that KC would have just simply "offed" her daughter to be "free," when all she had to do was leave Caylee, pack her bags--and play house w AL. JMO