Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #4

Which Listed Below Did Caylee Die From?


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It recently occurred to me that Caylee's death on June 16, 2008 was precipitated by and was the logical consequence of a specific set of circumstances which neither Casey nor her parents were able to deal with in a mature and responsible manner: (1) When Casey's pregnancy was finally recognized by her parents in her seventh month, Casey informed her parents that she wanted to place the baby for adoption upon birth. (2) Cindy was adamant that she should keep the baby based on the premise that she and George would provide whatever supplemental childcare and financial support Casey would require. (3) While there can be little doubt that Casey, Cindy and George dearly loved Caylee, as time went by the burden of providing financial support became onerous to Cindy, since neither George nor Casey were regularly employed.
(4) As is her nature, Casey exploited her parents' generosity by failing to secure and maintain a full- or part-time job, by actively pursuing social activities and intimate relationships normally enjoyed by people who are single and by failing to ensure that Caylee was properly cared for at all times when she was in her custody. (5) As time went by, the care of Caylee became evermore problematic and burdensome to Casey, especially when she could not afford to pay a babysitter and when Cindy refused to provide babysitting services when Casey wanted to go partying in the evening. (6) While it is obvious that there was never a letup in Casey's evening social activities, heaven only knows where Caylee was kept when she was not physically in the care of her mother during the last few months of her extremely short life. Could she have been sedated with Chloroform and stashed away at some unknown location as suspected? Give me a break! There has never been a "Zanny the Nanny" any more than there has ever been a "tooth fairy." Casey preferred to live in a fantasy world, presenting a happy-go-lucky exterior personality to the outside world while, at the same time, continuously lying to and stealing from her family, friends and others. (8) Cindy consistently played an unwitting role in supporting Casey's negative behavior and actions by not only buying into the tall tales Casey told her but by actually coddling her at times when she should have been berating her. (7) Cindy's built-up anger and resentment towards Casey reached its boiling point on June 15, 2008 when a loud and violent verbal and physical altercation erupted between them which culminated in Cindy actually putting her hands around Casey's throat.

It was no mere coincidence that Casey chose to murder Caylee the next day, on June 16, 2008. Subsequent to the internet research she had conducted in March 2008, Casey had already carefully planned and scripted the murder of Caylee and had actually implemented or was about to implement the many critical components of that plan that she felt would support her script. Casey also knew exactly how she would murder Caylee although she had not as yet determined the date on which she would do so. While Casey surely recognized that her regular routine of sedating Caylee with Chloroform and stashing her away some place when her presence was not desired was not a permanent solution, she just as surely recognized that having her mother care for Caylee was no solution either as it generally resulted in her being subjected to Cindy's emotional tirades. Had Caylee's murder not been pre-planned prior to June 16, 2008, I do not believe her murder would have occurred on that date or on any subsequent date. It was the fact that Casey already had a murder plan and script in place on June 16, 2008 that provided the impetus for her to carry out her murder plan in the clearly evil, emotionally detached and deliberate manner in which she did. If truth be known, Casey honestly believed that her "unbelievable" script would entitle her to a "Get Home Free" card from her parents, law enforcement and the world at large.

The senseless murder of two-year-old Caylee Marie Anthony, which has so outraged and distressed her grandparents, relatives and the citizens of this country demands JUSTICE and, as far as I am concerned, a court verdict of GUILTY BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT!
I like the preamble to your ouline, but I can not go along with the Pre-planning hypothesis. Certainly she may have "pre thought" about riding herself of the burden, but she seems hopless at planning anything Of course your opinion is as valid as mine. I think a violent outburst:" Shut up Caylee" and throw her in the trunk. Perhaps on-going sedation, but this last time perhaps involved more anger and venom.

The family have much to answer for in facilitating not only this crisis, but the preceeding years.
 
Is there a thread about what the heck KC REALLY did when she was supposed to be working? If this has been discussed can you point me in the right direction please?
 
FWIW...

Have been taking a focused look @ 6/16 pings on that thread in the Sticky Forum to support/debunk the purpose of the "flurry" calls that afternoon. I'm concluding that these calls were indeed an attempt to establish Caylee-Care w/ Cindy by dropping Caylee @ Gentiva that afternoon as Casey had often done before.

Back on 11/20, a now-inactive WS, Joyce, commented on a "stall" in the trip to Tony's that afternoon (6/16). We briefly discussed the possibility of the "stall" being involved w/ sedating Caylee, and the repeated attempts to reach Cindy, and ultimately Amy that night were last-ditch efforts...and then we moved on.

Today, I'm snipping the following from discussion w/ JWG over on the 6/16 thread as it relates to this Theory...


Quote:
Originally Posted by BondJamesBond
...consistent with 10-minute-at-time-Caseythink...since Casey was attempting to establish Caylee-care while on her way to Tony's...it means she didn't have the OTC she needed to sedate Caylee with her...

....soo....

IF we'd had the ping info immediately when the case broke and could’ve ciphered it down to this point quickly...I would’ve marched LE over to collect security surveillance video of Casey buying the d@mn OTC’s @ one of the two pharmacies located well-within the ping locations @ 4:25PM during the break after Casey’s last call to Cindy’s cell prior to showing up near Tony’s:

CVS @ 7451 East Colonial Drive (same intersection as Amscot)
Walgreens @ 7325 Gatehouse Cir, Orlando


However, w/ surveil videos likely not kept longer than 30 days...Grrrrrr… perhaps this was among the receipts that were turned over to JB early in the case. If not paid in cash...perhaps a check or credit card transaction that has been traced.
Joyce...wherever you are...nice work!

This one got plowed under...FYI. Ya' think Casey might've used a frequent-customer card??
 
This one got plowed under...FYI. Ya' think Casey might've used a frequent-customer card??

Wonder what the rules of evidence and discovery are for a defense attorney. If JB has incriminating receipts, what is his obligation? :waitasec:

IIRC some postings by Wudge on another thread, if KC confessed to JB he would be obligated to keep his mouth shut if she told him to. Wondering if the same holds true with incriminating evidence.
 
Wonder what the rules of evidence and discovery are for a defense attorney. If JB has incriminating receipts, what is his obligation? :waitasec:

IIRC some postings by Wudge on another thread, if KC confessed to JB he would be obligated to keep his mouth shut if she told him to. Wondering if the same holds true with incriminating evidence.

Great question for the Legal thread...

FWIW....the timestamp on the Blockbuster surveil video still images begins @ 7:54PM and ends @ 8:04PM.
 
Wonder what the rules of evidence and discovery are for a defense attorney. If JB has incriminating receipts, what is his obligation? :waitasec:

IIRC some postings by Wudge on another thread, if KC confessed to JB he would be obligated to keep his mouth shut if she told him to. Wondering if the same holds true with incriminating evidence.

I believe that a defense attorney will get into big doo doo if they hold back evidence. They don't have to say anything their client tells them but I believe it's illegal for them to suppress evidence just as it is for the prosecution.
 
Wonder what the rules of evidence and discovery are for a defense attorney. If JB has incriminating receipts, what is his obligation? :waitasec:

IIRC some postings by Wudge on another thread, if KC confessed to JB he would be obligated to keep his mouth shut if she told him to. Wondering if the same holds true with incriminating evidence.

An attorney has an affirmative duty to report and turn over any incriminating evidence against his or her client, even if it was his/her client that gave the evidence to the attorney. He/She would be violating his/her ethical duty to the court. (Paraphrased from this excerpt.)
 
OK...need a new doc release to advance theories. When is the next one due per the motions filed?

Now firmly in the OTC's and/or Rx - no chloroform - used, camp. T.O.D. >7:20PM 6/16. Duct tape & vomit-related asphyxiation and/or heat-related aggravation notwithstanding.

Looking @ those Blockbuster stills...grrrr....:furious:
 
OK...need a new doc release to advance theories. When is the next one due per the motions filed?

Now firmly in the OTC's and/or Rx - no chloroform - used, camp. T.O.D. >7:20PM 6/16. Duct tape & vomit-related asphyxiation and/or heat-related aggravation notwithstanding.

Looking @ those Blockbuster stills...grrrr....:furious:

Bond - Totally impressive! I 100% agree!
 
The FDA has, since 2007, placed warnings on infants/childrens cold medicines. An alarming amount of babies and children were showing up at ERs with fatal and near fatal reactions. They warned against giving them to children under 2; this changed to children under 4 and now they are considering changing it to under 6. The medicines are said to be ineffective against the cold and pose risks that outweigh the benefits. I think the medicines are probably safe if used as directed. The increase in emergency visits are probably due to parents using these drugs to sedate their children. I wonder if there is an increase in people using the cold medicines to bring about sleep in their child because these medicines have been around for years without any cause for alarm. One article I read said that of the parents who brought their child to the ER, 0% admitted giving the child more than the recommended dose of cold medicine.

It's near impossible to take a lethal dose of xanax if not mixed with alchohol or other medication. I doubt a person would have access to the amount it would take without saving up pills for quite awhile. The most likely result of Xanax OD is vomiting or, in extreme cases, coma. Caylee could die from Xanax ingestion if she were duct taped and then vomited. This would lead to aspiration of vomit resulting in asphyxiation or poisoning of her lungs or respiratory center.
Coma as a result of Xanax OD could have happened and goes along with Hercule P's theory. However, KC probably didn't have access to the amount it would take to bring about coma. If she did and administered it to Caylee she couldn't deny that her intentions were to kill her.

The possibility that chloroform contributed in some way to her death is there since such a large amount was found in the trunk. I tend to think of this as accidental spillage of chloroform KC may have had for other reasons.

If Caylee died of an overdose of some medication, I would bet that it was OTC cold medicine rather than chloroform or xanax.
It would be very helpful to know if KC purchased some type of cold medication within the time frame of Caylee's death. If Caylee OD'd, this is the most likely culprit.
 
Not so much "Intentionally" , more "unthinkingly".

That is not ment to lessen the crime in any way whatsoever. I think KC was hyper angry and treated Caylee with no regard at all. Just an object. Taped and thrown in the trunk.
There was no "premeditation" as in a plan and getting equipment ready etc. Obviously no plan in place to dispose of a body or even explain Caylee's absense. The one sensible thing I can attribute to LP (to be fair, I do not see much of him at all), is his assessment that KC lives life from one 10min interval to the next.

I agree that KC didn't 100% plan this out. However, she did like to play a whole host of different roles from time to time. She was the career woman, the perfect single mom, the party girl, the big sister to the shot girls, the little sister act for Lee, etc., etc. I think her 'research' into the chloro (and other strange searches) were not really a plan, but more akin to her rehearsing for a new role. And when 'pushed' (i.e., the KC vs. CA fight, among other reasons) she fell into this role quite easily and 'acted out' the murder of her daughter. She may have done this before (in the fantasy land in her head) but this time it was for real. She seems so detached now because she is playing a new role (the victim and justice seeker/law student) and that old role really wasn't 'her'.
 
If Caylee died of an overdose of some medication, I would bet that it was OTC cold medicine rather than chloroform or xanax.
It would be very helpful to know if KC purchased some type of cold medication within the time frame of Caylee's death. If Caylee OD'd, this is the most likely culprit.
*snipped*

FWIW...per analysis of the cell pings, it appears Casey may have stopped @ either Walgreens or CVS on her way to Tony's 6/16. There were long periods of inactivity on her cell phone prior to two calls to Cindy ~6PM...the last one being successful, and two calls to Amy @ ~7:20PM. After which, Casey showed up @ Blockbuster w/ Tony @ 7:54PM.

IMHO, this suggests Casey, frustrated @ not being able to establish contact with Cindy in order to drop Caylee @ Gentiva that afternoon, obtained something to sedate Caylee @ CVS or Walgreens.

See post#543 above...
http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3231415&postcount=543
 
Bond, I did read that post and it's what prompted my thoughts re: the OTC cold medicine. Most people regard OTC meds as safe when, in fact, they can be very deadly if used inappropriately. Tylenol, for instance, is one of the most dangerous drugs there is, RX or OTC. I can see KC administering an extra large dose of OTC cold meds without giving a thought to the lethality of it since it was, as many assume, a safe OTC drug. Knowing she administered this fatal dose, KC found cause to cover up the crime. She knew she would be held responsible.

On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a combination of things that killed Caylee. Meds, asphyxiation, hyperthermia could have all played a part in a sedation, duct tape, placed in the trunk scenario.
 
Makes sense to me. Plans in advance. What would the odds be for Caylee to die accidentally in the pool or in the car when she was on the computer?

We can't forget the web searches prior to Caylee's death. Too much coincidence if if was accidental. :confused:

If Casy spends as much time on the computer/texting as its been shown, then I say it is hightly like that it could happen.
 
Bond, I did read that post and it's what prompted my thoughts re: the OTC cold medicine. Most people regard OTC meds as safe when, in fact, they can be very deadly if used inappropriately. Tylenol, for instance, is one of the most dangerous drugs there is, RX or OTC. I can see KC administering an extra large dose of OTC cold meds without giving a thought to the lethality of it since it was, as many assume, a safe OTC drug. Knowing she administered this fatal dose, KC found cause to cover up the crime. She knew she would be held responsible.

On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a combination of things that killed Caylee. Meds, asphyxiation, hyperthermia could have all played a part in a sedation, duct tape, placed in the trunk scenario.

Sounds like we're in violent agreement, Marina2.

It took me awhile to come around the chloroform thing, but, I think I've gotta handle on that now thanks to help from WS's on the chloroform thread. :blowkiss:
 
Bond, I did read that post and it's what prompted my thoughts re: the OTC cold medicine. Most people regard OTC meds as safe when, in fact, they can be very deadly if used inappropriately. Tylenol, for instance, is one of the most dangerous drugs there is, RX or OTC. I can see KC administering an extra large dose of OTC cold meds without giving a thought to the lethality of it since it was, as many assume, a safe OTC drug. Knowing she administered this fatal dose, KC found cause to cover up the crime. She knew she would be held responsible.

On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a combination of things that killed Caylee. Meds, asphyxiation, hyperthermia could have all played a part in a sedation, duct tape, placed in the trunk scenario.

You're correct. Plus, if it was Benadryl (or any other cold med with similar ingredients), all KC would have had to do is fill up a TBSP instead of a TSP to put Caylee into a coma ... that is, given Caylee's age (probable height & weight) and all.
 
*snipped*

FWIW...per analysis of the cell pings, it appears Casey may have stopped @ either Walgreens or CVS on her way to Tony's 6/16. There were long periods of inactivity on her cell phone prior to two calls to Cindy ~6PM...the last one being successful, and two calls to Amy @ ~7:20PM. After which, Casey showed up @ Blockbuster w/ Tony @ 7:54PM.

IMHO, this suggests Casey, frustrated @ not being able to establish contact with Cindy in order to drop Caylee @ Gentiva that afternoon, obtained something to sedate Caylee @ CVS or Walgreens.

See post#543 above...
http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3231415&postcount=543

IMEHO, I agree the stop would have occurred between 4:25 and 4:50 PM while en route to Tony's. This is based on the direction of the two pings to Tower 46: 0.5 mi W of Amscot, 2 mi S of TonE L, which bracket the above times. The first ping is consistent with a location at either drug store. The second ping is from a location north of the CVS. Either at Tony's or on the way.

If I were a betting man, I'd have my money on CVS, based on KC standard driving pattern.
 
Lanie,

Don't you find it curious that Casey would be sitting at home on that Monday downloading a video onto her computer of an event where her daughter was reading a book to Papa? That book which many here think was found at the crime scene. The last person verified by a source other than the Anthony family to have had Caylee with her is Cindy. EVERYONE brought up June 9 until the video proved Caylee was alive on June 15. EVERYONE, including Granny Shirley.

Here's a theory for ya. How's about the weekend before June 9, Cindy and Casey have at a fight. Casey takes off without Caylee. We know from Tony that about the 9th she started staying there nearly every night, without Caylee. Cindy and George attempt to figure out how they're going to take care of Caylee. Cindy tells George that under no circumstances is he to let Casey into the house to see Caylee. She left, forget it. She doesn't get to keep messing things up. They struggle with the schedule that first week. Balancing their jobs with a toddler is pretty daunting, even if George doesn't have to go to work until 2 (to start at 3). Discovery docs in this last dump show that he was at work for 40 hours the week "ending" June 12 (Thursday to Thursday). It also was not unusual (according to Cindy's co-workers) for Caylee to be dropped off a couple times a week when Casey "was working" so the gaps COULD be filled with George dropping Caylee off at Cindy's work that week and Cindy simply telling people there that Casey dropped her off. Casey is off on her new adventure and the lies about work are now Tony's problem and the senior Anthony's are adjusting to their new routine.

We know Casey is in the house during that week (9-13) because of computer activity. I'm going to guess that Casey's feelings of "getting to know" George again after being distant for so long has everything to do with him bending the rules while Cindy is at work to allow Casey to come over. Casey gets to pretend that she's working while Tony is at school, and George gets to feel like he's important to Casey. It's a win/win, and Cindy can be in the dark. Though something must have triggered in her at least once, because in the jail house visits, at one point, Cindy asks Casey about things that were missing from the house. That ring, for instance. I'd bet money that Cindy took that from Casey at one point in a snit because it had been stolen or purchased with Cindy's money. Casey went searching for it and found it, and Cindy-the-hyper-vigilant noticed it was gone.



.................anyway, that's ONE theory of why the 9th was so memorable.

Well, RM says Casey showed up with Caylee and spent the night June 9. Casey had Caylee when she went to the mall with AL sometime that same week, and a friend says they went to the park around the 12th, 13th or 14th.
It's too hard to remember everything about this case. I seem to recall the video being downloaded shortly after it was taken, but don't remember when. I do remember thinking how they found the time to get this video downloaded, along with going swimming, having a big fight (still not sure this happened) tucking everyone in, etc. So, are you sure it was downloaded the morning of the 16th, because I don't want to spend hours tracking this info down?
Lanie
 
I agree that KC didn't 100% plan this out. However, she did like to play a whole host of different roles from time to time. She was the career woman, the perfect single mom, the party girl, the big sister to the shot girls, the little sister act for Lee, etc., etc. I think her 'research' into the chloro (and other strange searches) were not really a plan, but more akin to her rehearsing for a new role. And when 'pushed' (i.e., the KC vs. CA fight, among other reasons) she fell into this role quite easily and 'acted out' the murder of her daughter. She may have done this before (in the fantasy land in her head) but this time it was for real. She seems so detached now because she is playing a new role (the victim and justice seeker/law student) and that old role really wasn't 'her'.

Bolded by me.

This is also my train of thought. IMO, she had been thinking off and on of killing Caylee. For whatever reason, on June 16th, everything lined up right for her.
Lanie
 
Well, RM says Casey showed up with Caylee and spent the night June 9. Casey had Caylee when she went to the mall with AL sometime that same week, and a friend says they went to the park around the 12th, 13th or 14th.
It's too hard to remember everything about this case. I seem to recall the video being downloaded shortly after it was taken, but don't remember when. I do remember thinking how they found the time to get this video downloaded, along with going swimming, having a big fight (still not sure this happened) tucking everyone in, etc. So, are you sure it was downloaded the morning of the 16th, because I don't want to spend hours tracking this info down?
Lanie

FWIW...I have in my notes from the computer forensics that the pics (dunno 'bout vid) from the nursing home were downloaded to the laptop @ 3:31PM on 6/17. Owing to Cindy's work schedule and Casey's pings this was performed by Casey.

IIRC, a pic (dunno 'bout vid) from the above downloaded photos based on the content (Caylee reading book @ nursing home matching the video) was last viewed ~10AM 7/2. This may have been a still image from the video. I just don't recall.
 
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