Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #5

[Whisperer]

Thank you so much !

Reason I ask about disposal date is because Tony P, channel 6, went over the pings, he thinks that she was disposed of on the 18th, because ...something about the meeting point of two pings went exactly to that spot..now, I don't know if he knows his stuff or this is just a guess. To someone as inexperienced as me, it sounded like a nice, neat answer !

I don't know either....anything is possible but I thought maybe she left Caylee in the car for a long time. My reasoning is due to the odor that permeated the car for a five month period even with the carpet removed.

My other reason is that the blow flies were small (per GA and tow yard guy)
meaning they were deprived of food long enough to be w/o food but not long enough to be dead.

In looking at the forensics, I am thinking she was dousing that stain with gasoline till she absolutely (excuse me) had no choice but dispose of Caylee.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Thank you so much !

Reason I ask about disposal date is because Tony P, channel 6, went over the pings, he thinks that she was disposed of on the 18th, because ...something about the meeting point of two pings went exactly to that spot..now, I don't know if he knows his stuff or this is just a guess. To someone as inexperienced as me, it sounded like a nice, neat answer !

You aren't the first one to ask that question for exactly the same reason

If you can suffer through a little off-topic explanation...

Truth is, IMHO, the pings provide us with an incredible wealth of information, however...

1) Pings shouldn't be confused w/ GPS coordinates (exact longitude & latitude of the handheld device/phone) which so many people are familiar with now that they have GPS systems (e.g. Tom-Tom, NeverLost, etc.) in their cars. With GPS coordinates (which many phones can be enabled to provide now for a monthly service fee) Tony would be in a position to make the claim that he did. With pings...not so much.

2) Pings only provide information when the phone is sending/receiving a transmission. So...when the phone is not in use...it isn't providing pings. We did some extensive work to determine periods when Casey's phone wasn't in use before the body was found...thinking long periods of inactivity might lead us to the body. You may have read about this lately as it was also a means of determining when/if Casey slept...and where.

3) Pings only provide a general area. For example on one side of the cell tower...within a range of a mile or two from the tower...and owing to changing cell volume throughout the day...2 or 3 towers may carry the call from the exact same location on any given day. This is the case @ G&C's and Suburban....as well as @ Tony's apt. There are 3 towers that form a triangle around both of these areas betwixt which the cell pings bounce.

We made a huge advance when JWG deciphered the directional antenna codes in the AT&T docs. This took us from having to consider each ping coming from anywhere 360 degrees around a tower to a specific 120 degree arc in a predetermined direction (e.g. North to Southeast) of the tower. :thumb: (BTW...he was waaaay too modest regarding his role in the explanation he provided earlier - but then, I'm not too surprised 'bout that )

Hope that helps.

 

[Searchfortruth]

You aren't the first one to ask that question for exactly the same reason

If you can suffer through a little off-topic explanation...

Truth is, IMHO, the pings provide us with an incredible wealth of information, however...

1) Pings shouldn't be confused w/ GPS coordinates (exact longitude & latitude of the handheld device/phone) which so many people are familiar with now that they have GPS systems (e.g. Tom-Tom, NeverLost, etc.) in their cars. With GPS coordinates (which many phones can be enabled to provide now for a monthly service fee) Tony would be in a position to make the claim that he did. With pings...not so much.

2) Pings only provide information when the phone is sending/receiving a transmission. So...when the phone is not in use...it isn't providing pings. We did some extensive work to determine periods when Casey's phone wasn't in use before the body was found...thinking long periods of inactivity might lead us to the body. You may have read about this lately as it was also a means of determining when/if Casey slept...and where.

3) Pings only provide a general area. For example on one side of the cell tower...within a range of a mile or two from the tower...and owing to changing cell volume throughout the day...2 or 3 towers may carry the call from the exact same location on any given day. This is the case @ G&C's and Suburban....as well as @ Tony's apt. There are 3 towers that form a triangle around both of these areas betwixt which the cell pings bounce.

We made a huge advance when JWG deciphered the directional antenna codes in the AT&T docs. This took us from having to consider each ping coming from anywhere 360 degrees around a tower to a specific 120 degree arc in a predetermined direction (e.g. North to Southeast) of the tower. :thumb: (BTW...he was waaaay too modest regarding his role in the explanation he provided earlier - but then, I'm not too surprised 'bout that )

Hope that helps.

TY for the help, tomorrow I am going to read this thread and others, cell pings, in an attempt to get a handle on this. I can't believe this is the first time I have read this thread, but it's fascinating to see all the different theories. Fantastic work !

 

[BondJamesBond]

The pings place kc at Tl's from appr. 9:30 to 7:20 then off to her home. She started texting TL shortly thereafter. She continued to text/talk to TL till almost 3:am. Not to much time there for a full fledged fight. She can multi-task, no doubt, but I don't think she is that good to handle a strangling of her throat and texting....

Downtime was 3:00am to late morning, I think. What time was this alleged fight?

What concerns me about these pings is the order and repeated bouncing between the two towers near the A home. I have not seen that pattern before or after that night.

Is there a reason for the bouncing back and forth? I wonder if that places her in a definite locale? Afterall, one would only have to re-create that ping scenario with an ATT cellphone. I am hoping it gives them a major clue.

FWIW, speculation on the timing of the fight 9:26-10:06PM...explanation provided here got buried.

Regarding the bouncing pings...it happens throughout the period for which we have records. Not uncommon. See post above I was typing about pings in general as you were typing

 

[BondJamesBond]

TY for the help, tomorrow I am going to read this thread and others, cell pings, in an attempt to get a handle on this. I can't believe this is the first time I have read this thread, but it's fascinating to see all the different theories. Fantastic work !

My apologies to everyone for the extra-"ping" discussion on this thread. I hope the connection to the theory building is self-evident.

Searchfortruth, Make sure you spend time in the Case Analysis Forum. When you come to the main forum it is the 3rd section from the top of the page. There you will find a detailed discussion of the events of each date as supported/debunked by cell pings...as well as the best-d@mn maps you'll ever see generated by Georgia PI in post#1 of each of the dated Ping threads. Hope that helps.

OK...back to Theories...

 

[Searchfortruth]

I couldn't be that 'normal' with a dead child, a living child in the trunk, a missing child, or any thought of any of those things happening. How could anyone focus on a rented movie at a time like that? Might as well ask me to take down a recipe over the phone as the house burnt down around me.
I have lived my life around those kinds of people though, and yes, they really can appear perfectly normal, perfectly calm in those sorts of situations. I have asked them about it later, when I found out about something that would have driven me straight into panic mode, they said they just did not allow themselves to think about it. They just concentrate on the business at hand, and if they do think about it, they blame the problem on someone else.

'Not my fault the kids were left alone that night, if their Mom hadn't taken on a second job, she would have been where she belonged, at home looking after the kids.'.. a direct quote from someone who almost lost his kids (ages 6, 4 and 3 months) in a house fire when he left them home alone, and his wife worked two jobs to help pay off his fines.

Reminds me of Casey's response in jail when she heard of the remains being found, "this is not happening". I guess it's as simple as that ? As for her lack of emotions, it sort of reminds me of Cindy. Cindy is not emotionally flat, but how many times have we seen her break down and cry ? She shows anger a lot, but we don't see much of the other real emotions one would expect to see in a Grandmother in this position. Casey just smiles, inappropriately, for the most part..could this have been part of the upbringing, Lee laughs at inappropriate times.

 

[Searchfortruth]

It seems to me that Tony was being very cooperative with LE. I think he has told all he can tell. I hope there is more of his testimony as yet unreleased.

There has GOT to be more on Tony, we haven't heard about the 16th, Blockbuster, all those phone conversations on the 15th and 16th. I have a feeling that Tony knows a lot more than what has been released !

 

[Ripley007]

Reminds me of Casey's response in jail when she heard of the remains being found, "this is not happening". I guess it's as simple as that ? As for her lack of emotions, it sort of reminds me of Cindy. Cindy is not emotionally flat, but how many times have we seen her break down and cry ? She shows anger a lot, but we don't see much of the other real emotions one would expect to see in a Grandmother in this position. Casey just smiles, inappropriately, for the most part..could this have been part of the upbringing, Lee laughs at inappropriate times.

CA & GA must reap what they've sowed. 2 disfuntional, emotionally void offspring.
re: "this is not happening" makes me jump to one and only one conclusion. That KC THOUGHT her family would find Caylee's remains before LE and "re-dispose" of them in a more permanant manner. She did after all, give them blatent clues...

 

[Searchfortruth]

CA & GA must reap what they've sowed. 2 disfuntional, emotionally void offspring.
re: "this is not happening" makes me jump to one and only one conclusion. That KC THOUGHT her family would find Caylee's remains before LE and "re-dispose" of them in a more permanant manner. She did after all, give them blatent clues...

Oh I believe she told someone,or hinted at where the body was...my guess is Lee, but it could be any of them. That PI didn't get it from a psychic, IMO.

 

[Skully]

:shutup::shutup:

And this difficulty envisioning Casey placing the heart sticker post mortem is what makes me believe that the duct tape and sticker were on Caylee BEFORE SHE DIED.
My gut level feeling is that Casey had played a 'game' with Caylee whenever she wanted her knocked out. I can easily see her telling little Caylee a story, with a "let's pretend" angle, which involved her placing duct tape over her mouth. I think the sticker somehow made it "fun" for Caylee to play, in Casey's mind...I have always felt that she taped her mouth, anesthetized her with chloroform or some other type of drug, and put her in the trunk for 'safekeeping' while she slept. Since anesthesia makes many people, especially young children, very nauseous, I believe that at some point on the 16th, Caylee may have aspirated vomit due to the duct tape, and that's how she died.
I believe that Casey panicked, hence the 'flurry' of phone calls to CA and GA, and when she couldn't get anybody, she put Caylee in the trunk to try and work something out before her folks got home and caught her. When the panic subsided, the wheels started to turn on how she could get away with it by blaming someone else, the 'imaginanny' who had been watching little Caylee in the trunk for perhaps many months. I think that somehow, CA got wind of what Casey had been doing, perhaps Caylee told her in some way, and that was the reason for the fight on 6/15. It breaks my heart to think of it...

If KC did in fact panic after Caylee died in this manner, wouldn't KC have had to at least remove that tape, see the vomit, try CPR, something in this panic? I don't think there was panic, I think she meant to tape her up and not remove it until she was dead. Or it was staging. I haven't made up my mind yet on which one. But I do think it was intentional and murder. The only panic as you point out are the calls and that was too make sure she had time to get Caylee out of the house before they got home.

 

[reeseeva]

FWIW, speculation on the timing of the fight 9:26-10:06PM...explanation provided here got buried.

Regarding the bouncing pings...it happens throughout the period for which we have records. Not uncommon. See post above I was typing about pings in general as you were typing

BJB, First, I'd like to thank you & others for all your time deciphering the details....Whew!, painstaking work.:clap::clap::blowkiss:

Regarding the night of the 15th, @ 10:25, when KC starts the "heavy" texting with Tony L, have LE released the contents of those texts? Just thinking there would have to be some substance, in those texts, to support the fight which ensued previous to this time.

 

[JWG]

However...if Casey had a dead Caylee in the house whilst the only other person @ home, George, was asleep...wouldn't it seem the ripe opportunity to get-the-helloutta-Dodge? :waitasec: Instead, Casey sat down and uploaded pics to Photobucket....nline:

...

IIRC, computer forensics show some surfing that afternoon ~3PM, which might be worth another look. If we look @ all of the above, once George FINALLY left the house...if Casey knew she had a dead Caylee on her hands, IMHO, it seems highly unlikely her first George-free hour to act would be spent surfing, etc. nline: Worth another look...:sleuth:...what was she interested in that afternoon?​

~* SNIP *~

Computer activity for that day is pieced together from several pieces of discovery. Unfortunately, what has been released for June 16 does not amount to much.

The first piece of information is an Encase Timeline report. Encase is forensic software OCSO used to analyze the computer hard drives. The Timeline report simply shows activity in the form of files being created, accessed, modified, and deleted. On the HP desktop, what we see is:

• Moderate usage 12 - 1 AM
• Heavy usage 7 - 8 AM
• Light usage 8 - 9 AM
• Heavy usage 10 - 11 AM
• Moderate usage 11 AM - Noon
• Heaviest usage 2 - 3 PM
• Light usage 11 PM - midnight

I won't bother uploading the similar graph for the laptop. It shows no usage for the 16th except for barely perceptible activity at 11 AM, 1 - 3PM, and 4PM.

The next piece of information is from the temporary internet history activity. The desktop had two accounts that were actively used: "casey" and "owner". Ironically, George and Cindy used the "casey" account and Casey used the password-protected "owner" account.

The September discovery release contained internet history for account "casey" but not "owner". Unfortunately, the only piece of internet history for June 16 was at 10:18 PM - after KC was gone. If I am interpreting the full URL correctly, George was looking at a folder in his Yahoo mail called "Job stuff".

The last piece of computer evidence we have is from her photobucket account. In this case a single picture of Fusian was uploaded to her Photobucket at 10:27 AM.

We can infer from computer usage and Photobucket time stamps on other dates that George typically used the computer late at night (after 10PM to midnight) and early in the morning (6AM to 8AM). KC typically used the computer during the late morning and mid-afternoon.

 

[ibyoungr]

There has GOT to be more on Tony, we haven't heard about the 16th, Blockbuster, all those phone conversations on the 15th and 16th. I have a feeling that Tony knows a lot more than what has been released !

Did you read his transcript that was in the last release?
I found there to be more information than the previous release.

He states that the night chats on June 15/16th were "lovey-dovey" stuff.
They had no real set plans for the next day.
He said she did not go out and check on her car during the movie. That nothing seemed unusual.
They slept in and he skipped a day of school on the 17th to have sex until late morning.

IIRC, Sunday (Father's day) they just hung out at the apartment.

 

[ibyoungr]

BJB

I find the discussions of the pings and cell records to be much overdo in the Theory thread. To discuss a theory at this point without the factual information to back the theory up would be a mute point.

Thanks for all your contributions!

I find some of the posters here are forming better theories and this is starting to change the thread from being OPINION BASED ONLY to an actual hammering out the details to create a plausible theory thread.

 

[ibyoungr]

~* SNIP *~

Computer activity for that day is pieced together from several pieces of discovery. Unfortunately, what has been released for June 16 does not amount to much.

The first piece of information is an Encase Timeline report. Encase is forensic software OCSO used to analyze the computer hard drives. The Timeline report simply shows activity in the form of files being created, accessed, modified, and deleted. On the HP desktop, what we see is:

• Moderate usage 12 - 1 AM
• Heavy usage 7 - 8 AM
• Light usage 8 - 9 AM
• Heavy usage 10 - 11 AM
• Moderate usage 11 AM - Noon
• Heaviest usage 2 - 3 PM
• Light usage 11 PM - midnight

View attachment 3442

I won't bother uploading the similar graph for the laptop. It shows no usage for the 16th except for barely perceptible activity at 11 AM, 1 - 3PM, and 4PM.

The next piece of information is from the temporary internet history activity. The desktop had two accounts that were actively used: "casey" and "owner". Ironically, George and Cindy used the "casey" account and Casey used the password-protected "owner" account.

The September discovery release contained internet history for account "casey" but not "owner". Unfortunately, the only piece of internet history for June 16 was at 10:18 PM - after KC was gone. If I am interpreting the full URL correctly, George was looking at a folder in his Yahoo mail called "Job stuff".

The last piece of computer evidence we have is from her photobucket account. In this case a single picture of Fusian was uploaded to her Photobucket at 10:27 AM.

We can infer from computer usage and Photobucket time stamps on other dates that George typically used the computer late at night (after 10PM to midnight) and early in the morning (6AM to 8AM). KC typically used the computer during the late morning and mid-afternoon.

:waitasec: Makes me wonder if FBI or SA is still holding on the the contents of the owner profile. I know there was SOMETHING there if it showed heavy activity between 2 -3 PM.

I am ready to see that in a doc dump.

 

[Mendara]

Thanks Mendara, might be beating an old horse here, but if they had it for that long i suppose it is possible GA or CA dumped the remains

The remains were not in the car - as the towing person looked in the trunk along side GA before releasing the car to them.

However - CA did admit to cleaning out the car and removing clothing and a knife and washing them.

 

[Jolynna]

Did you read his transcript that was in the last release?
I found there to be more information than the previous release.

He states that the night chats on June 15/16th were "lovey-dovey" stuff.
They had no real set plans for the next day.
He said she did not go out and check on her car during the movie. That nothing seemed unusual.
They slept in and he skipped a day of school on the 17th to have sex until late morning.

IIRC, Sunday (Father's day) they just hung out at the apartment.

I haven't a confirmed time for when Tony met up with Casey on 6-16. Was he still on a schedule where he got off from school at 1 p.m.?

 

[Mendara]

There has GOT to be more on Tony, we haven't heard about the 16th, Blockbuster, all those phone conversations on the 15th and 16th. I have a feeling that Tony knows a lot more than what has been released !

Oh me too. I can't wait for him tot ake the stand and be a witness against her while she sits and watches. I DO NOT think he was involved though, I just think he has more to offer as to her demeanor and her comments around that time. Also I am curious to know where her car was during BB night and if he was ever in the car after the 16th. It seems she rode around with him a lot and then on the two gas running out days he still did not actual sit int he car. Also where did she park the car?

I remember him and a roomate stating she would LEAVE to go speak ont he telephone.

 

[sumbunny]

Do we have the text messges between tony and casey on the 15th of June?

 

[Jolynna]

In the latest document dump, Tony did say he believed he drove to Blockbuster.

The 7:45 a.m. on 6-16 was Casey picking up her voice mail. She picked up her messages twice that day. Once at 7:45 a.m. and then again just after 8 p.m.