Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #5

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Quoting myself...bad form and all.

I was REAALLLLY hoping to get some discussion on the above. Somebody start poking away at this stuff already...:poke:...please.

ok,... I'll bite

you wrote:
After staying up until at least 3:22AM texting w/ Tony...

@ 7:45AM 6/16 we have the call from G&C's home phone to Casey's phone. Speculation that this call served one of two purposes
(a) Casey attempting to locate the phone itself, or,
(b) Cindy attempting to locate Casey



I see one more option. Cindy stated that she had to be to work at 8 sometimes she would go in later.. like 8:15/8:30.

I think she could have CALLED CASEY FROM THE HOUSE phone to try and talk to her right before she left the house. Casey let the call go as she did not have much sleep the night before and sleep to her was more important than talking to her mother whom she fought with the night before. Cindy then does not return her calls later in the day. Kinda like a cat and mouse game or tit for tat.

Matter of fact, as I was walking out the door this morning. I used our house phone to call my son's cell phone as he was still in his room. This is what made me think of the this OTHER OPTION??
 
I posted last night that I was blown away by all the work done here, I guess I am the opinion based poster. I do read many of the documents, but I have not been a member of WS since last year. I have been here maybe two months. I don't see anything wrong with me complimenting a job well done, regardless of when it was done. I don't think the other thread is the correct place to write about this opinion based poster, either. My opinion only.
 
I posted last night that I was blown away by all the work done here, I guess I am the opinion based poster. I do read many of the documents, but I have not been a member of WS since last year. I have been here maybe two months. I don't see anything wrong with me complimenting a job well done, regardless of when it was done. I don't think the other thread is the correct place to write about this opinion based poster, either. My opinion only.

Glad you're here, Search. :)
 
ok,... I'll bite

you wrote:
After staying up until at least 3:22AM texting w/ Tony...

@ 7:45AM 6/16 we have the call from G&C's home phone to Casey's phone. Speculation that this call served one of two purposes
(a) Casey attempting to locate the phone itself, or,
(b) Cindy attempting to locate Casey



I see one more option. Cindy stated that she had to be to work at 8 sometimes she would go in later.. like 8:15/8:30.

I think she could have CALLED CASEY FROM THE HOUSE phone to try and talk to her right before she left the house. Casey let the call go as she did not have much sleep the night before and sleep to her was more important than talking to her mother whom she fought with the night before. Cindy then does not return her calls later in the day. Kinda like a cat and mouse game or tit for tat.

Matter of fact, as I was walking out the door this morning. I used our house phone to call my son's cell phone as he was still in his room. This is what made me think of the this OTHER OPTION??

LOL...you just did a better job of writing what I was trying to write in (b) above :)

I will add that it appears Cindy's cell phone was off, outta signal range (unlikely, IMHO), or dead battery for almost the entire day, except ~6PM when she called Casey and the reverse happened (Casey's phone off, outta range, dead battery) and Cindy's call went to Casey's vmail. For me, this was a signficant revelation.

Cindy had 1 cell phone transmission all day 6/16, and that was to call Casey that single time. No other incoming/missed calls that I see.

Also, no calls between George & Cindy's cell 6/16...so George wasn't tryin' to play peacemaker.
 
My theory is that this was no accident. I believe Casey planned this for months (the One Tree Hill episode searches in March prove this). I don't think she was really "ready" to carry out her plan yet, but after the fight with her mom, she was angry (the truth hurts) and desperate (no more babysitter) so she prematurely put her plan into action.

I believe she killed her sometime on the 16th. I don't know if she left the house before GA left for work, but I guess it doesn't matter as if she did it was only for show, and she returned a short time later to carry out the murder. I definitely don't think she murdered Caylee with her parents still in the house. I would imagine that would be too risky/nerve-wracking. I remember having fights with my parents... I never knew when they would burst into my room with an apology or to continue the argument.

I believe she smothered the baby (possibly used chloroform or OTC drugs to knock her out before hand), then threw the body in the trunk and simply avoided it for days. I think she was even able to avoid thinking about it to some extent. By the 18th, she still didn't have a plan as to what to do with the body - bury it or ditch it. She even goes as far as borrowing a shovel, digging a small hole and returning it. Some have said digging may have been harder, or took longer than expected and that may be the case. Even still, it appears she just puts the body back in the trunk and carries on with her day.

And as for the Anthony's, I'm really surprised that so many people here think CA is domineering and abusive. Is this supported by anything? IMO, there is a huge difference between "wearing the pants" and being domineering and controlling. Actually, I would argue that Casey has mistreated her family a thousand times more than they have mistreated her, before and after the murder. And clearly she is not afraid, and has never been afraid of Cindy. The famous jailhouse visit where she screams at them comes to mind. And all the while, they're walking on egg shells talking to KC.

If anything, I feel KC is a spoiled brat and her parents were clearly not strict ENOUGH with her. They did not ask ENOUGH of her. They never MADE her tell the truth. They never HELD her accountable. THAT is what they're guilty of. Casey's failings as a person are her own. I feel she is from what WAS a relatively normal family. She was given love, support, shelter, fresh air, food, and a beautiful child. She had it pretty freakin' sweet if you ask me. And she ruined it all on her own.

Just my opinion. Don't get me wrong - I am angry at them too because I feel like not only are they' not standing up for Caylee, they're actively trying to cover up the truth. But I do understand the position they're in (losing their granddaughter AND daughter) and I feel for them in a lot of ways.

Well, you guys have some GREAT theories in this thread and I can't wait to read what you all have to say in all the other threads! Loving this forum!
 
ok,... I'll bite

you wrote:
After staying up until at least 3:22AM texting w/ Tony...

@ 7:45AM 6/16 we have the call from G&C's home phone to Casey's phone. Speculation that this call served one of two purposes
(a) Casey attempting to locate the phone itself, or,
(b) Cindy attempting to locate Casey



I see one more option. Cindy stated that she had to be to work at 8 sometimes she would go in later.. like 8:15/8:30.

I think she could have CALLED CASEY FROM THE HOUSE phone to try and talk to her right before she left the house. Casey let the call go as she did not have much sleep the night before and sleep to her was more important than talking to her mother whom she fought with the night before. Cindy then does not return her calls later in the day. Kinda like a cat and mouse game or tit for tat.

Matter of fact, as I was walking out the door this morning. I used our house phone to call my son's cell phone as he was still in his room. This is what made me think of the this OTHER OPTION??

I completely agree.

I don't think KC called her cell to find it.

1 - she would have had to walk out into the main living area to grab a phone and possibly run into her mother (assuming she didn't have an extension in her room and phone line....that's a job for Hercule and his floorplan!)

2 - she doesn't come off as the type that would never NOT know where her beloved cell/lifeline is. She loved her phone more than Caylee.


That said, I have always thought the call to KC's cell that morning was CA trying to smooth things over....or continue the fight.....give one last parting jab.....right before she left for work.

They had a huge nasty fight the night before and it seems most possible that this type of dysfunctional family would play the "avoid" game in the morning and not really deal with what had happened and let time smooth it over.

The fact that CA called her tells me there really was a HUGE fight the night before even though CA contines to deny it.

Calling her on the cell was easier than facing her before work.
 
Well, you guys have some GREAT theories in this thread and I can't wait to read what you all have to say in all the other threads! Loving this forum!
*snipped*

And a fine post-o-el-numero-uno, Brooke. Welcome! :)
 
Thanks BJB for helping me out with the ping at the Anthonys.

I hadn't seen that pattern before the 15/16th where it bounced evenly between the two towers north and south of the home. Looked like a good ping pong match going on all night....lol
 
Cindy had 1 cell phone transmission all day 6/16, and that was to call Casey that single time. No other incoming/missed calls that I see.

Also, no calls between George & Cindy's cell 6/16...so George wasn't tryin' to play peacemaker.

IMO, this single morning call from Cindy to KC's cell means three things:

- KC is NOT home;
- Caylee is NOT home as well. Otherwise Cindy would make another phone call to her supervisor telling that she's not coming to work or will be late because KC is not home to watch Caylee;
- GA/CA are 100% lying regarding events on 6/16 morning.

Just MO.
 
I posted last night that I was blown away by all the work done here, I guess I am the opinion based poster. I do read many of the documents, but I have not been a member of WS since last year. I have been here maybe two months. I don't see anything wrong with me complimenting a job well done, regardless of when it was done. I don't think the other thread is the correct place to write about this opinion based poster, either. My opinion only.


We are glad your here and IN SEARCHOFTRUTH!:blowkiss:
 
IMO, this single morning call from Cindy to KC's cell means three things:

- KC is NOT home;
- Caylee is NOT home as well. Otherwise Cindy would make another phone call to her supervisor telling that she's not coming to work or will be late because KC is not home to watch Caylee;
- GA/CA are 100% lying regarding events on 6/16 morning.

Just MO.

I respectfully disagree. I think the one phone proves KC was home and I'll use my own experience to explain...

I lived with my parents until I was 25 (currently 28), not because I didn't have a good job and I don't have kids, it was because my father was sick and I stayed at home to help take care of him. Anyway, I worked 2nd shift, so I'd meet up with my friends around 12 am and be out sometimes til the sun came up or would stay at a friends. I would usually call to say I was staying (I'm sure my parents loved the 4am drunken phone calls). If for some reason I didn't call, my mother would start calling my cell at around 8. She would call every 20mins or so until I picked up or called back. She wasn't the least bit controlling but she had already lost one child and would worry until she heard from me. Now sometimes she wouldn't hear me come in and would call in the am, she would hear my cell phone ringing and know I was at home. So there would only be one phone call.

I think the one phone call was either Cindy calling KC, she heard the phone ringing and knew KC was home, or it was KC calling her phone to locate it. I usually have my phone on me, but if I fall asleep with it on the bed it can fall off or get tangled in the sheets and a quick call will locate it.

I just can't see Cindy or any concerned parent only calling once if they don't know where their child and grandchild are. This is especially true if there was a big fight the night before.

Sorry, this wasn't meant to be this long. I tend to over explain things.
 
I respectfully disagree. I think the one phone proves KC was home and I'll use my own experience to explain...

I lived with my parents until I was 25 (currently 28), not because I didn't have a good job and I don't have kids, it was because my father was sick and I stayed at home to help take care of him. Anyway, I worked 2nd shift, so I'd meet up with my friends around 12 am and be out sometimes til the sun came up or would stay at a friends. I would usually call to say I was staying (I'm sure my parents loved the 4am drunken phone calls). If for some reason I didn't call, my mother would start calling my cell at around 8. She would call every 20mins or so until I picked up or called back. She wasn't the least bit controlling but she had already lost one child and would worry until she heard from me. Now sometimes she wouldn't hear me come in and would call in the am, she would hear my cell phone ringing and know I was at home. So there would only be one phone call.

I think the one phone call was either Cindy calling KC, she heard the phone ringing and knew KC was home, or it was KC calling her phone to locate it. I usually have my phone on me, but if I fall asleep with it on the bed it can fall off or get tangled in the sheets and a quick call will locate it.

I just can't see Cindy or any concerned parent only calling once if they don't know where their child and grandchild are. This is especially true if there was a big fight the night before.
*snipped (just a wee bit) & bold by me*

Thanks, nephers.

Sounds like you lost a sibling along the way...:hug:

I kinda like the lost amongst the sheets, etc. thinking.

OpenMind - thanks for jumping in the fray here. :)

Consider that George (although prolly still asleep) shoulda been at home after working 'till 11PM-or-so 6/15. So, I dunno if Cindy woulda had to automatically stay home to care for Caylee. FWIW, methinks Cindy would've had no reservation 'bout waking up George to 'handle it'.

Also consider - although not perfect for lining up the motive for the call (or caller) - the Pontiac shoulda been in the driveway as an indication of whether or not Casey was home. Since the cell pings are a strong indication Casey went to bed @ G&C's it seems like Cindy's assumption woulda been that Casey was still there.

I can only speculate that the parking arrangment when Casey was @ home was for Cindy's 4-Runner, and George's HHR to be IN the garage, w/ the Pontiac outside (can't be certain since George's late evening arrivals mighta meant he'd park outside too). IF this was the arrangement, Cindy would likely have had the habit of checking for the Pontiac before she began backing outta the garage each morning.

And yes, I realize Cindy still coulda called the cell before she went out into the garage to leave...hence...not a perfect explanation...just one explanation.

The computer forensics Encase report (thanks JWG) shows decent activity that morning before the time Cindy woulda had to goto work. However, it only shows the relative level of activity, NOT, the activities themselves (e.g. sites surfed, etc.) Sooooo....unless & until we see more detail on specifically what the computer activity was that day (besides the Photobucket upload 10:27AM) I'm @ a bit of a loss to figure out the waking order that morning.

I'm not sure the purpose of the 7:45AM call is all that important in the grand scheme of things quite honestly. However, it does help kinda move the thinking forward to focus on the details of the day at this level IMHO. Maybe some new ideas, or new sleuthing opportunities will present themselves, eh? :)
 
I am now starting to wonder about George and seeing Casey leave...

It has been my theory that he did see her leave and she comes back.

Now I am starting to think.. with all the lies and diversion tatics that they are using and "It will all come out at the trial."

George and Cindy KNEW Casey was not working and that was part of the fight. After all, I read somewhere that Cindy thought Casey was at work and then finds a picture of the ABC Party and figures out she was out partying.

Casey's partying had increased from May to June 16th.

George and Cindy knew Casey was not working, and were upset with her about it. (this will be part of the truth that comes out at trial) They wanted to believe her story that she had this awesome part-time work anytime she wants kinda job that the working hours were the same as the the hours most people party on the weekend.

I think George slept in from his job and between the time after Cindy left and George woke up, Casey went to the kitchen to get something for Caylee to eat. There is a TV is Casey's room so I think (as I myself have been guilty of a time or two) she turned on the TV to cartoons for Caylee (Curious George, Sesame Street) while she dozed back off until she got up to get on the computer(in the other room-while George was still in bed.) She uploaded the pics, Caylee watched cartoons etc. They got showered and dressed for the day. When George got up...Casey hid out in her room with Caylee until close to 12:00 pm. 11:52 was her last text or call for about an hour. (LUNCHTIME and a quick visit with dad)

The reason I think she never left is because she was texting Tony at 12:53, 12:55, 14 min call at 1:00 at the SAME TIME George says he was telling them GOODBYE.

George, knew she did not leave the house, he knew she did not have a job, he knew she was going to not be home that night. She had plans.

George tries to "keep the family image" per Cindy and lies on the police report about seeing them leave "for work."

George feels terribly guilty because he knows they did not leave the house.

Alternate scenario - They did leave between 11:52 and 12:53 to "go to work" but in reality.. she took Caylee to get her last happy meal filled with muscle relaxers.

George upon hearing the Nanny story, he lied to police saying she was going to work to give her "story" more substance.
 
IMO, this single morning call from Cindy to KC's cell means three things:

- KC is NOT home;
- Caylee is NOT home as well. Otherwise Cindy would make another phone call to her supervisor telling that she's not coming to work or will be late because KC is not home to watch Caylee;
- GA/CA are 100% lying regarding events on 6/16 morning.

Just MO.

I respectfully disagree. Here's my opinion. I think she used the extension in her room to call herself on her mobile. Could be a ruse so that she could say she got a call from work. An hour later she texts TL.

Another option is that she could set her cellular up to ring to her home phone extension if she received a call that went to voicemail. So she calls voicemail, gets the home phone to ring, and has "proof" that her job called her that morning.

Just theories that I'm working on.
 
I respectfully disagree. Here's my opinion. I think she used the extension in her room to call herself on her mobile. Could be a ruse so that she could say she got a call from work. An hour later she texts TL.

Another option is that she could set her cellular up to ring to her home phone extension if she received a call that went to voicemail. So she calls voicemail, gets the home phone to ring, and has "proof" that her job called her that morning.

Just theories that I'm working on.

Very interesting theory... Do we see a home phone ext in her rooom in any of the pictures of the house?
 
SNIPPED: "... Also, no calls between George & Cindy's cell 6/16...so George wasn't tryin' to play peacemaker."

I wonder if George, who worked that Sunday, June 15, until 11:00 p.m., was even home during the big fight between Casey and Cindy? Methinks not...so he might not have had any idea just how bad it got... (;) but I could be persuaded otherwise by someone with a different concept...)
 
I've asked her.

ETA: A disagreement between all of our fine cell ping experts is something that worries me, especially since the date in question is possibly the date Caylee died.

I have been working off of a printed copy of the discovery documents, not an Excel file. My post above matches my calendar entries. PM me if desired.

Sunday 6/15
-pings near home until 9:15 AM when cell pings near TL
-then no activity until almost 1 PM; pings start again from TL at that time
-pings near TL until 7:10 PM; then pings from home rest of evening and past midnight

Monday 6/16
-pings near home until 4:14 PM; then pings in travel
-pings near TL from 4:25 PM until 11:17 PM; then no cellular activity until 6/17 at 10:52 AM near TL

Calendar note: BondJamesBond pointed out a discrepancy in my calendar entry for 6/15. I didn't see it at the very bottom. I did a lot of cutting and pasting when I made my entries, so that very bottom portion did not belong on that calendar entry and I've now deleted it. The main entry, the top which shows where the pings came from in what time frame is correct. The bottom blurb totally did not go with that event date. My apologies.

Thanks, QS. I think I see where the confusion happens. Based on the details in post #495 I think we're in violent agreement. I'll PM you to see if you agree w/ what I'm seeing.

Thanks to all of you for setting me straight re: where Casey was on June 15. :D
 
SNIPPED: "I am now starting to wonder about George and seeing Casey leave... George, knew she did not leave the house, he knew she did not have a job, he knew she was going to not be home that night. She had plans.

George tries to "keep the family image" per Cindy and lies on the police report about seeing them leave "for work."

George feels terribly guilty because he knows they did not leave the house...."

You're speaking my language now. I've never believed George saw them leave together the morning of June 16.

You could be right re: why he's lying...

...or George may simply have began his lies starting with the events of that morning b/c that's the first morning George KNEW he should have awoken to see both Casey and Caylee, but he didn't, and in the aftermath, his being near the vehicle June 24, driving it home July 15, he smells the decomposition emanating from the vehicle, ergo he begins lying to cover for Casey starting with that date in time.
 
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