Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #7

[Solace]

I keep thinking about the theory that Caylee died accidentally while iCA was supposed to be watching her. I'm not saying I believe it, but just pondering. IF Caylee drowned in the pool, ingested something, or choked on food, etc. and died while while ICA was preoccupied on her laptop, cell phone, etc., then wouldn't she be smart enough to know the consequences would be far less for her to notify the authorities (LE, EMS) immediately, rather than trying to cover it up?

And, if it's true that she told LA a portion of the truth, he certainly would have shared this with the A's. What are the odds one ENTIRE family could continue to carry on this farce? What would they think they had to gain? Surely they would know that there was no scenario in which ICA would just walk away from all this without LE being involved.

I just can't seem to find any scenario that supports the "accident" theory.

Especially with the duct tape wrapped around her head and mouth three times.

 

[CuriousTwo]

Everyone says she was so nice to her. How the hell do they know that. Were they with her all the time? No, they were not and Amy said she disliked the fact that Caylee was around parties, drinking etc. So much for KC never bringing her around booze or cigarette smoke. However, IF SHE WERE AT WALMART and was seen, from the description SHE WAS ABUSIVE to Caylee in that Caylee could have been seriously hurt with the doors.

I so totally agree with you ... I have a relative who is bipolar and around our relatives she was the sweetest, kindest, most accommodating person you will ever meet. She waited on my dear mother and helped in any way she could when my relatives were present. When relatives went home and weren't present, she was abusive, demeaning, and a totally different person. When my dear mother passed away and we relayed this to relatives, they didn't believe us. I know from experience that just because someone seems wonderful and kind in front of others doesn't mean that they are that way at all times, especially when no one is around.

Sorry if OT, just an observation to support Solace's comments, from my experience.

 

[Mystic]

I've been reading this thread off/on all day... great timelines and things I'd missed.

Near the beginning I wondered about a drowning, both accidental and on purpose. If the ladder was up on the pool Caylee could have climbed up and fallen in the pool while ICA was distracted(on the phone). The accident didn't really go far since I couldn't rationalize her getting the duct tape in that moment or that it would even stick or stay on. She could have just thrown her in the pool and walked to the Garage to get the duct tape and bags. The shovel could have been to clean up anything the body expelled. I assumed she did kill her in the backyard since the c.dogs hit back there.

Now after reading the posts how the movement/placement of the gas cans in the backyard being why the dogs hit back there makes more sense.

My theory is that the fight on the 15th was the trigger. CA had previously been told by some therapist/counsellor to boot Casey out and obtain custody but she couldn't follow thru. I tend to think that CA implied this prior to the 15th and ICA made a little vow with herself that she'd kill Caylee before that happened. CA has never revealed the truth about the 15th, but I have a gut feeling that it was a hell of a fight where she finally drew the line. (That would be the trigger for ICA) The only reason I believe that CA wasn't more proactive in finding them for 31 days is the possibility that Casey told her on the 15th that she'll just leave and raise Caylee just fine... that she didn't need CA or GA for anything. Of course these are all assumptions of what may have occurred.

So the next day Casey makes a flurry of calls to establish if CA was just blowing steam. I don't believe she was calling for sitter service after the blowout the night before. CA doesn't answer... so she uses chloroform and duct tape and places Caylee in the trunk of her car.

I tend to think the call to Amy was to ensure she had a place to stay that night if her date with TA didn't turn into an overnight.

Grant it, the plan to us doesn't seem well thought out but its something to do with ICA's personality, she fabricates stories in seconds that people don't call her on... to her it was probably a great plan. Look at Scott Peterson he also had that strange idea. There has to be something about the missing mental processes in these types of criminals that ensure they get caught more often then not.

Casey never intended to live at the A's home again and apparently had difficulty in letting go of the body and/or finding the time to dispose of her. She killed her and went on with her life around people that would not question much.

O/T I feel that all of CA's actions point to her feeling tremendous guilt (not saying it's right) That's why she didn't tell LE that first night about the fight nor did she let them know that Casey probably didn't work at Universal or have a nanny.

moo

 

[CuriousTwo]

I've been reading this thread off/on all day... great timelines and things I'd missed.

Near the beginning I wondered about a drowning, both accidental and on purpose. If the ladder was up on the pool Caylee could have climbed up and fallen in the pool while ICA was distracted(on the phone). The accident didn't really go far since I couldn't rationalize her getting the duct tape in that moment or that it would even stick or stay on. She could have just thrown her in the pool and walked to the Garage to get the duct tape and bags. The shovel could have been to clean up anything the body expelled. I assumed she did kill her in the backyard since the c.dogs hit back there.

Now after reading the posts how the movement/placement of the gas cans in the backyard being why the dogs hit back there makes more sense.

My theory is that the fight on the 15th was the trigger. CA had previously been told by some therapist/counsellor to boot Casey out and obtain custody but she couldn't follow thru. I tend to think that CA implied this prior to the 15th and ICA made a little vow with herself that she'd kill Caylee before that happened. CA has never revealed the truth about the 15th, but I have a gut feeling that it was a hell of a fight where she finally drew the line. (That would be the trigger for ICA) The only reason I believe that CA wasn't more proactive in finding them for 31 days is the possibility that Casey told her on the 15th that she'll just leave and raise Caylee just fine... that she didn't need CA or GA for anything. Of course these are all assumptions of what may have occurred.

So the next day Casey makes a flurry of calls to establish if CA was just blowing steam. I don't believe she was calling for sitter service after the blowout the night before. CA doesn't answer... so she uses chloroform and duct tape and places Caylee in the trunk of her car.

I tend to think the call to Amy was to ensure she had a place to stay that night if her date with TA didn't turn into an overnight.

Grant it, the plan to us doesn't seem well thought out but its something to do with ICA's personality, she fabricates stories in seconds that people don't call her on... to her it was probably a great plan. Look at Scott Peterson he also had that strange idea. There has to be something about the missing mental processes in these types of criminals that ensure they get caught more often then not.

Casey never intended to live at the A's home again and apparently had difficulty in letting go of the body and/or finding the time to dispose of her. She killed her and went on with her life around people that would not question much.

O/T I feel that all of CA's actions point to her feeling tremendous guilt (not saying it's right) That's why she didn't tell LE that first night about the fight nor did she let them know that Casey probably didn't work at Universal or have a nanny.

moo

I see what you're saying, but I can't grasp my mind around how this family thinks that by telling "half truths" or "mistruths" to mislead LE is going to help ICA in any way ... other than to only delay the inevitable ... what kind of people think this way?

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Alright...everybody with less than 100 posts...out on the dance floor! Let's see some new moves :genie:

Hello,

I just want to personally say this is an Excellent Thread ! :rocker:

I am only about halfway through this thread, but I really enjoyed reading the different theories and am looking forward to reading more !

While I have kept up with most of the facts of the case, I really have not kept up with all of the "minute" details of the case ... but this thread has helped answer a lot of questions I had regarding some specific details.


As to my general theory, :cow::cow::cow:

I believe that KC killed Caylee out of "rage" AND "jealousy" ... I think the "fight" was the "straw that broke the camel's back" for KC and she got "desperate." As to the "jealousy" I think KC was sooooo jealous of the attention the family gave Caylee, she just could not handle it !

KC is very impulsive, and it is my opinion KC knew what she was doing when she killed Caylee. But KC, as usual, did not consider the "consequences" and maybe ? when she realized what had happened, she tried to come up with some type of "cover-up".

I think her first attempted "cover-up" was to make it look like a "kidnapping" ... but for some reason that was not able to "work" for KC -- which I think would have worked better than this bizarre "Zanny the Nanny Theory."

My opinion and "theory" may change tomorrow, next week -- LOL -- or during the trial.

Just sooooooo many possibilities in this case to consider ...

Thanks again !

Hope

 

[wenwe4]

Aaargh. I just typed a long response and then hit something an lost it.

I believe KC did the very thing that she could to hurt her parents the most, take Caylee away from them. KC didn't want to be a Mom, CA wanted to be a Grandma. I believe KC threatened to never allow CA to see Caylee again, after the knock-down, drag-out, 'I want to kill you' violence that occurred on that night when CA put her hands around KC's neck. I think this was the last straw, in that CA was threatening to take Caylee away from KC and KC exacted the only pain she could that she had complete control over; Caylee. This is why the statement that KC made to Lee 31 days later about "maybe I am just a spiteful *****" came from.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

You all have excellent theories and I too believe it was that argument which turned physical, was the catalyst for Caylee's demise...

I also recall ICA having a book on tantrums and how to handle it, IIRC, she had one page leafed...what if, bear with me, some mentioned an "intentional" drowning....what if ICA didn't storm out that night, June 15, 2008...but on June 16, 2008 after GA left for "work", Caylee started to have a "fit" about wanting to go swimming..ICA was engrossed with her computer doing whatever it was she does (is still holding animosity due to this physical altercation) is tired of hearing Caylee cry for the pool and in a fit of rage, throws her in and walks away, callous and cold blooded, yes...Caylee's diaper is filled with the water from the pool, which is why there is high levels of decomp in the trunk..from there, after the flurry of calls, she gains her composure long enough to "think" of this great kidnapping theory, and it snowballed from there...:loser:

There has to be a reason WHY the ladder was in the pool when CA knows after they swam, (CA and Caylee) returning from Mt. Dora on June 15, 2008, she is adamant she put the pool away from the ladder. They all knew how much Caylee loved to swim and no one has admitted to moving the ladder back to the pool, it didn't get there by itself, KWIM??? CA made it a point to ask GA if he put the ladder in the pool...but there's something about it that is now gnawing at me...and I can't put my finger on it...then last night I was watching a documentary on ID or Bio, and stated, a person with personality orders does not think long term, they only think for the moment...just like ICA, she never thinks anything through, she does what her impluse demands, at that time...JMHO

Justice for Caylee

 

[Solace]

I've been reading this thread off/on all day... great timelines and things I'd missed.

Near the beginning I wondered about a drowning, both accidental and on purpose. If the ladder was up on the pool Caylee could have climbed up and fallen in the pool while ICA was distracted(on the phone). The accident didn't really go far since I couldn't rationalize her getting the duct tape in that moment or that it would even stick or stay on. She could have just thrown her in the pool and walked to the Garage to get the duct tape and bags. The shovel could have been to clean up anything the body expelled. I assumed she did kill her in the backyard since the c.dogs hit back there.

Now after reading the posts how the movement/placement of the gas cans in the backyard being why the dogs hit back there makes more sense.

My theory is that the fight on the 15th was the trigger. CA had previously been told by some therapist/counsellor to boot Casey out and obtain custody but she couldn't follow thru. I tend to think that CA implied this prior to the 15th and ICA made a little vow with herself that she'd kill Caylee before that happened. CA has never revealed the truth about the 15th, but I have a gut feeling that it was a hell of a fight where she finally drew the line. (That would be the trigger for ICA) The only reason I believe that CA wasn't more proactive in finding them for 31 days is the possibility that Casey told her on the 15th that she'll just leave and raise Caylee just fine... that she didn't need CA or GA for anything. Of course these are all assumptions of what may have occurred.

So the next day Casey makes a flurry of calls to establish if CA was just blowing steam. I don't believe she was calling for sitter service after the blowout the night before. CA doesn't answer... so she uses chloroform and duct tape and places Caylee in the trunk of her car.

I tend to think the call to Amy was to ensure she had a place to stay that night if her date with TA didn't turn into an overnight.

Grant it, the plan to us doesn't seem well thought out but its something to do with ICA's personality, she fabricates stories in seconds that people don't call her on... to her it was probably a great plan. Look at Scott Peterson he also had that strange idea. There has to be something about the missing mental processes in these types of criminals that ensure they get caught more often then not.

Casey never intended to live at the A's home again and apparently had difficulty in letting go of the body and/or finding the time to dispose of her. She killed her and went on with her life around people that would not question much.

O/T I feel that all of CA's actions point to her feeling tremendous guilt (not saying it's right) That's why she didn't tell LE that first night about the fight nor did she let them know that Casey probably didn't work at Universal or have a nanny.

moo

Agreed with 1000%.:seeya:

 

[ZsaZsa]

He also said he saw here about noon but the cell pings show her at home, another seeking the limelight for sure...she didn't leave home that day until gone 4pm.

In truth he had no clue where she was that day, but the Anthony motto kicked in- 'If in doubt, LIE'.

 

[Solace]

In truth he had no clue where she was that day, but the Anthony motto kicked in- 'If in doubt, LIE'.

So you don't think George saw KC leave that day? But in his interview with J. Allen and Yuri (which he does without CA and Lee knowing) he talks of this. He is going there basically to tell them that he smelled decomposition, so why would he lie about seeing Caylee leave on the 15th?

 

[Scamperoo]

So you don't think George saw KC leave that day? But in his interview with J. Allen and Yuri (which he does without CA and Lee knowing) he talks of this. He is going there basically to tell them that he smelled decomposition, so why would he lie about seeing Caylee leave on the 15th?

To cover up the family fight and aftermath, where Cindy attempted to throttle Casey ( according to Lee ) and probably included a threat to take Caylee. Cindy has always said there was no fight while her son and neighbor say there was.
I believe KC left taking Caylee or locked herself and Caylee in her room, I don't believe either parent saw them after that. It's a cover up for the perfect family.

 

[Solace]

To cover up the family fight and aftermath, where Cindy attempted to throttle Casey ( according to Lee ) and probably included a threat to take Caylee. Cindy has always said there was no fight while her son and neighbor say there was.
I believe KC left taking Caylee or locked herself and Caylee in her room, I don't believe either parent saw them after that. It's a cover up for the perfect family.

KC was on the family computer the next morning. Cell phone pings put her at the house. This is science and it does not lie. I forget what she was looking up on the computer. I think it is on the Hinkey Meter.

She was at the house. Geoge is not roaming the streets. He has a job in the afternoon - he would be home.

There is also the fact that Lee voluteers information and is quite forthcoming in his interview and George does also. I think it is as George says and that he saw her on July 16th.

George and Cindy are shocked that the child was taken and you can hear it in Cindy's 911 call - it is horrific.

He was home on July 16th and so was KC. Pings put here there and so does the family computer I believe.

 

[Solace]

To cover up the family fight and aftermath, where Cindy attempted to throttle Casey ( according to Lee ) and probably included a threat to take Caylee. Cindy has always said there was no fight while her son and neighbor say there was.
I believe KC left taking Caylee or locked herself and Caylee in her room, I don't believe either parent saw them after that. It's a cover up for the perfect family.

I think you will find at trial that Lee will say he was told by Cindy that there was a fight the evening of June 15th. I don't think George was home that evening - so he can't say it. But Lee, if Jesse Grund is telling the truth, told Jesse that there was a fight.

Lee seems to be telling the truth on the stand, as he did at the last hearing.

I see that George and Cindy have nooooooooooo problem lying, but I think that Lee will tell the truth.


Here you go re KC using family computer:

16 – Midnight to 1:00 am high user activity on desktop
Midnight to 11:00 am no activity on laptop
1:00-7:00 am no user activity on desktop
3:08 am TL calls KC, 14 minutes conversation
7:00-9:00 am high user activity on desktop
7:45 am Anthony home leaves voicemail on KC’s cell
7:45 am KC calls voicemail
9:00-10:00 am no activity on HP desktop
10:00-noon high user activity on desktop
11:00 am to noon – one file accessed on laptop, most likely system activity
JT states that around noon he saw KC and Caylee at the Casselberry Walmart. (acutally he says lunchtime)
11:27 am KC uploads one picture to her photobucket account from desktop (IP ties to Anthony home).
11:47 am TL calls KC, 18 minute phone call
12:00 noon-1:00 pm no activity on HP desktop. No activity on laptop

Eveyone assumes that the computer salesman says he saw KC at noon, he says "lunchtime" which could have been 1 to 1:30.

 

[celticthyme]

Casey was trapped. Her world was falling apart piece by piece.
She had lied to her friends so many times that most did not trust her any more. She couldn’t go with Amy & the others on their spring break trip because she had no$$, and no one to take care of Caylee for that long. The gig was up with stealing from her mom’s bank accounts and running up the credit cards. She had no job, no income,(which her dad figured out long ago.) She was trapped. Caylee was a smart little girl, and she could tell grandma things, Casey didn’t want her to know. Caylee had put such a crimp on her social life and freedom, resentment was building up, how was she ever going to escape this child and her horribly controlling mother? Cindy had had it with the lies, stealing cheating, babysitting, working full time and trying to hold the family together. She had wanted to take the girls with her on her vacation days, but Casey had taken Caylee, so she spent her vacation alone. Finally, stealing from Cindy’s mom ignited a fuse in her, which just about drove her over the edge. By the time Casey finally rolled in on the 15th she was burning with rage. So we have the big fight and the threat to take custody of Caylee, because Casey was just too irresponsible. Cindy would support poor little Caylee, but not her lying, thieving daughter. I think Casey likely drugged Caylee with an OTC drug which had Benadryl in it (and may have been using this for some time to "babysit" & put her out at night). Then for good measure she ripped off THREE . . . 8” pieces of duct tape and began wrapping them over her mouth and nose around her little head. She was “free” now. This act of taking the time to put 3 pieces of tape over her child's airways equals FIRST DEGREE HOMICIDE!!

 

[pip]

I think you will find at trial that Lee will say he was told by Cindy that there was a fight the evening of June 15th. I don't think George was home that evening - so he can't say it. But Lee, if Jesse Grund is telling the truth, told Jesse that there was a fight.

Lee seems to be telling the truth on the stand, as he did at the last hearing.

I see that George and Cindy have nooooooooooo problem lying, but I think that Lee will tell the truth.


Here you go re KC using family computer:

16 – Midnight to 1:00 am high user activity on desktop
Midnight to 11:00 am no activity on laptop
1:00-7:00 am no user activity on desktop
3:08 am TL calls KC, 14 minutes conversation
7:00-9:00 am high user activity on desktopGeorge or Cindy?
7:45 am Anthony home leaves voicemail on KC’s cellCindy before she left for work looking for KC?
7:45 am KC calls voicemailKC not home, avoiding CA call?
9:00-10:00 am no activity on HP desktopGeorge gone now too?
10:00-noon high user activity on desktopKC goes home since George is gone?
11:00 am to noon – one file accessed on laptop, most likely system activity
JT states that around noon he saw KC and Caylee at the Casselberry Walmart. (acutally he says lunchtime)
11:27 am KC uploads one picture to her photobucket account from desktop (IP ties to Anthony home).
11:47 am TL calls KC, 18 minute phone call
12:00 noon-1:00 pm no activity on HP desktop. No activity on laptopKC leaves around noon? I don't put much stock in the Walmart sighting..I think Caylee was already murdered June 15th.

Eveyone assumes that the computer salesman says he saw KC at noon, he says "lunchtime" which could have been 1 to 1:30.

RBBM.. To me the call from the A Home to KC's cell is a big red flag that she left on the 15th and Cindy was trying to reach her b4 leaving for work. KC, true to her pattern thereafter, calls her VM immediately. She is already paranoid about what happened, IMO.

 

[Scamperoo]

KC was on the family computer the next morning. Cell phone pings put her at the house. This is science and it does not lie. I forget what she was looking up on the computer. I think it is on the Hinkey Meter.

She was at the house. Geoge is not roaming the streets. He has a job in the afternoon - he would be home.

There is also the fact that Lee voluteers information and is quite forthcoming in his interview and George does also. I think it is as George says and that he saw her on July 16th.

George and Cindy are shocked that the child was taken and you can hear it in Cindy's 911 call - it is horrific.

He was home on July 16th and so was KC. Pings put here there and so does the family computer I believe.

That's if you believe George was at home, there is only his word that he was.

 

[Solace]

That's if you believe George was at home, there is only his word that he was.

Scamp,

We have proof that KC was at the home that morning, since she uploaded a picture. Someone else was on the computer that morning also for an hour. And also for an hour the night before from midnight to 1:00 p.m. (when George arrives home). He says he does not immediately go to bed. It was not Cindy the next morning; she is at work. Cell phone pings put KC at home and ALSO Tony Lazarro was questioned by detectives about the length of time he spoke with KC that night. So that takes care of the KC not being home theory the night of June 15th and early morning hours of June 16th.


What is the basis for his lying that he saw her at that time? He went to the detectives unbeknownst to Cindy or Lee to tell them that he smelled decomposition in the car. He is basically telling them he knows KC is guilty of something. It is pointless to accuse him of things that "may" not be true, when pretty much everything points to his telling the truth, about this anyway. Just my opinion.

He changes his story later after he and Cindy and Lee have a huge argument and they tell him he is on the side of the law and not KC's side.

Up until that time, he is telling the detectives what he knows to be true.
`

 

[pip]

That's if you believe George was at home, there is only his word that he was.

Perhaps Cindy sent him out to find KC and Caylee out of worry if she left on the 15th w/ Caylee in a rage after the fight.. worried since they didn't return home? They are busy on the internet that AM, calling KC's cell.. maybe Cindy left for work and George's task was to find KC? Cat n mouse game, as soon as KC knew George was out she went in?

 

[pip]

Scamp,

We have proof that KC was at the home that morning, since she uploaded a picture. Someone else was on the computer that morning also for an hour. And also for an hour the night before from midnight to 1:00 p.m. (when George arrives home). He says he does not immediately go to bed. It was not Cindy the next morning; she is at work. Cell phone pings put KC at home and ALSO Tony Lazarro was questioned by detectives about the length of time he spoke with KC that night. So that takes care of the KC not being home theory the night of June 15th and early morning hours of June 16th.


What is the basis for his lying that he saw her at that time? He went to the detectives unbeknownst to Cindy or Lee to tell them that he smelled decomposition in the car. He is basically telling them he knows KC is guilty of something. It is pointless to accuse him of things that "may" not be true, when pretty much everything points to his telling the truth, about this anyway. Just my opinion.

He changes his story later after he and Cindy and Lee have a huge argument and they tell him he is on the side of the law and not KC's side.

Up until that time, he is telling the detectives what he knows to be true.
`

RBBM
Cell phone pings put KC either at home, at Lee's or nearby in her car. Same pings.

 

[Scamperoo]

Maybe she parked close to home and slept in her car, couldn't stand Caylee's crying and duct taped her face and put her in the trunk. There are many theories, the only thing we do know is the family lies so everything they say is suspect. JMO