Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #8

[SMK]

I agree and I think the duck tape was added later to make it look like a kidnapping/murder. That would go along with the zanny the nanny story, and then Casey could of just said oh no the nanny killed her...
Either Casey OVER chloroformed caylee and caylee died or caylee was held under water in the pool by Casey. The duck tape I think casey just added to make it look like a murder don't you? AND THAT REALLY BACKFIRED...Liars lie but always include a lot of truth in the story. (she probably was drowned for real by the hands of her mom, so the story only has do deviate a little like her dad coming around the corner etc... I feel Casey chloroformed her to death maybe even accidentally.. then took her to the pool to make it look like she drowned so she would't get in trouble for chloroforming her...then Casey started calling everyone over and over no one answered she panicked added duck tape to make it look like a kidnapping and it just went on from there.

That might explain the flurry of calls. But wouldn't her parents, if she had reached them, just say, "Call 911"? Or maybe she would have said it was too late. Can chloroform be found in an autopsy after drowning? Maybe she realized the lungs would not be filled with water due to already over dosing on the C, and gave up?

 

[gypsyblue]

So if you can believe she'd resort to that story in one scenario, why is so hard far-fetched to believe that she might consider it in another? No snark, seriously trying to understand.

no prob....

because I am following the evidence in the case which has far from lead me to believe this was as accident covered with a murder. I look at everything as a whole...I cant pick and chose and add non evidential personal theories into my opinion...

if it was to be a staged kidnap then it would be just that....not half of a staged kidnap...

If this was a drowning and a coverup. then it would be just that. There would be no need to add that how the body was discovered was shady, and that LE and ME's and csi, are all crooked and out to frame kc.

I also have yet to see any proof or testimony of kcs sudden healing and newly gained ability to express emotion for her "accidentally drowned" child.

mooc

 

[Ssejors]

i hope we can agree to disagree, because honestly that just doesn't make a whole of sense to either. Even trying to see it from Casey's twisted perspective (which has given me honest to goodness nightmares) duct tape just seems like an odd and unnecessarily sadistic and elaborate choice if the murder was a spur of the moment thing. MOO

Not if you are in the garage.
Not if that Duct tape is on a shelf in the garage.

 

[barbtries]

new to websleuths, just recently engaged in watching the trial. i am up to day 18. have read many interviews, listened to the 911 calls, etc. so this is my theory and it's probably been advanced elsewhere. i don't know all of the initials in use here so will go with first names hope that's ok.

casey getting tired of having to be with Caylee all the time, and very infatuated with Tony Lazzaro. So she decides to put the baby in the trunk when she goes out, putting the duct tape over the baby's mouth so that no one will know there's a baby in the trunk. baby dies.

casey panics when she finds caylee's dead body, drives around for some time, long enough for the body to begin to decompose, for maggots to enter the body, for the smell. she decides to bury the body and leaves it where it was ultimately found.

and this is where i just kind of lose all understanding. her behavior for the next month and beyond. i keep thinking that she must have been so traumatized and she so did not want it to be true that on some level she just went into a coma. but her actions belie that.

i think we'll never know what really happened here. i do think that casey killed her daughter. am not convinced of premeditated murder, but murder nonetheless.
so that's my theory.

 

[GeekyGirl]

no prob....

because I am following the evidence in the case which has far from lead me to believe this was as accident covered with a murder. I look at everything as a whole...I cant pick and chose and add non evidential personal theories into my opinion...

if it was to be a staged kidnap then it would be just that....not half of a staged kidnap...

If this was a drowning and a coverup. then it would be just that. There would be no need to add that how the body was discovered was shady, and that LE and ME's and csi, are all crooked and out to frame kc.

I also have yet to see any proof or testimony of kcs sudden healing and newly gained ability to express emotion for her "accidentally drowned" child.

mooc

I'm going to politely ignore the implication that I'm picking and choosing evidence, and I've addressed all of your points in previous posts. I would disagree that the conclusions you've made from the evidence you've presented are the only ones to be made, but alas I don't think either of us is going change the other person's mind at this point, so I'm just going to agree to disagree. MOO

 

[Ssejors]

new to websleuths, just recently engaged in watching the trial. i am up to day 18. have read many interviews, listened to the 911 calls, etc. so this is my theory and it's probably been advanced elsewhere. i don't know all of the initials in use here so will go with first names hope that's ok.

casey getting tired of having to be with Caylee all the time, and very infatuated with Tony Lazzaro. So she decides to put the baby in the trunk when she goes out, putting the duct tape over the baby's mouth so that no one will know there's a baby in the trunk. baby dies.

casey panics when she finds caylee's dead body, drives around for some time, long enough for the body to begin to decompose, for maggots to enter the body, for the smell. she decides to bury the body and leaves it where it was ultimately found.

and this is where i just kind of lose all understanding. her behavior for the next month and beyond. i keep thinking that she must have been so traumatized and she so did not want it to be true that on some level she just went into a coma. but her actions belie that.

i think we'll never know what really happened here. i do think that casey killed her daughter. am not convinced of premeditated murder, but murder nonetheless.
so that's my theory.

:welcome1: :welcome:

:hi:

Good theory. The longer you stay here, the more that theory changes I promise you that. But you will keep coming back! Welcome!

 

[SMK]

new to websleuths, just recently engaged in watching the trial. i am up to day 18. have read many interviews, listened to the 911 calls, etc. so this is my theory and it's probably been advanced elsewhere. i don't know all of the initials in use here so will go with first names hope that's ok.

casey getting tired of having to be with Caylee all the time, and very infatuated with Tony Lazzaro. So she decides to put the baby in the trunk when she goes out, putting the duct tape over the baby's mouth so that no one will know there's a baby in the trunk. baby dies.

casey panics when she finds caylee's dead body, drives around for some time, long enough for the body to begin to decompose, for maggots to enter the body, for the smell. she decides to bury the body and leaves it where it was ultimately found.

and this is where i just kind of lose all understanding. her behavior for the next month and beyond. i keep thinking that she must have been so traumatized and she so did not want it to be true that on some level she just went into a coma. but her actions belie that.

i think we'll never know what really happened here. i do think that casey killed her daughter. am not convinced of premeditated murder, but murder nonetheless.
so that's my theory.

:welcome5::Welcome1:

 

[krimekat]

casey getting tired of having to be with Caylee all the time, and very infatuated with Tony Lazzaro. So she decides to put the baby in the trunk when she goes out, putting the duct tape over the baby's mouth so that no one will know there's a baby in the trunk. baby dies.

casey panics when she finds caylee's dead body, drives around for some time, long enough for the body to begin to decompose, for maggots to enter the body, for the smell. she decides to bury the body and leaves it where it was ultimately found.

and this is where i just kind of lose all understanding. her behavior for the next month and beyond. i keep thinking that she must have been so traumatized and she so did not want it to be true that on some level she just went into a coma. but her actions belie that.

i think we'll never know what really happened here. i do think that casey killed her daughter. am not convinced of premeditated murder, but murder nonetheless.
so that's my theory.

Respectfully snipped, welcome to WS!

This is my theory as well (KC assuming too many responsibilities 'cause George & Cindy were cutting the cords) EXCEPT she placed Caylee in the trunk until she was able to go home to get black trash/garbage bags & Cindy's laundry bag, placed Caylee in those, drove around with her decomposing body THEN placed her in the "swamp".

All while partying & posting her follies on MySpace/Facebook . . . :banghead:

I believe this is premeditated in the sense that KC never wanted Caylee but was persuaded to keep her & raise her with help from her parents. Something clicked in her childish mind (in March 2008) & she chose a life of a single chirpie 20-something rather than a single MOM 20-something.

 

[sappysoul]

no prob....

because I am following the evidence in the case which has far from lead me to believe this was as accident covered with a murder. I look at everything as a whole...I cant pick and chose and add non evidential personal theories into my opinion...

if it was to be a staged kidnap then it would be just that....not half of a staged kidnap...

If this was a drowning and a coverup. then it would be just that. There would be no need to add that how the body was discovered was shady, and that LE and ME's and csi, are all crooked and out to frame kc.

I also have yet to see any proof or testimony of kcs sudden healing and newly gained ability to express emotion for her "accidentally drowned" child.

mooc

While I'm not sure how everything went down I do agree that just because Casey may have been bad/stupid at planning doesn't mean she didn't have a plan. There isn't anything to convince me she would only follow through on a plan most would think was well-thought out. Also, premeditation doesn't require a plan, only the opportunity to consider what you are doing.

 

[larryphx]

I wish we could REALLY know how extreme the fight was that night between Cindy and Casey. Was it enough to cause such rage in Casey. I think maybe if Cindy writes a book Casey will give her take of that fight from jail one day in a few years.
(Casey won't be able to just sit in jail and say nothing while her mom is on a book tour.)

 

[SMK]

I wish we could REALLY know how extreme the fight was that night between Cindy and Casey. Was it enough to cause such rage in Casey. I think maybe if Cindy writes a book Casey will give her take of that fight from jail one day in a few years.
(Casey won't be able to just sit in jail and say nothing while her mom is on a book tour.)

Well, I think if the reports/rumors about Cindy putting her hands around Casey's throat are true, combined with threats to kick Casey out and get custody of Caylee, that MAY have been enough to provoke a killing. I agree, if she sees her Mom living the high life of an author, she just may want to say a few things.

 

[Kelroy]

Well, I think if the reports/rumors about Cindy putting her hands around Casey's throat are true, combined with threats to kick Casey out and get custody of Caylee, that MAY have been enough to provoke a killing. I agree, if she sees her Mom living the high life of an author, she just may want to say a few things.

I have a question about the fight. I'd never heard of it before coming here (I'm pretty new to the case), so I was surprised it wasn't mentioned in court. But from what I can tell here, it's just hearsay: some friend told Lee that Casey said it happened, and Lee told police, right? And neither of the parties involved have admitted that it happened? If so, it really strikes me as unreliable, though I agree it would make a good motive. Who can believe anything Casey says, and certainly what a third party says a friend says she says? I'm just wondering if I have the source of the info correct; I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything.

 

[Doodlelover]

I've tried and tried and tried to make all the evidence and facts work out a plausible scenario that I like, but it just doesn't work. I don't like any of them.

My mind just does not want to go to cold calculated, duct tape to the face murder. I keep going over every kind of accidental theory I can such as drowning in the pool, accidental OD from chloroform or Xanax, I even thought for a while that she backed in the garage with a sleeping Caylee in the car and thought because it was so hot out, she'd let the car run for air conditioning and accidentally killed her with carbon monoxide and when she found an overheated Caylee, she plunged her into the pool, but it was too late, she pulled her out and layed her in the back yard, thus the dog hits. I could go on and on, but they never sit well with me.

I really really tried to find a plausible scenario. Three years later, I still can't find anything accidental to fit. It ALL comes back to the duct tape.

The only thing that works for me, is a very angry Casey, either because of the fight with CA or because she called all kinds of people the afternoon of the 16th and not one of those so called people who love her will take Caylee so she could be with Tone that night. I think this was a slow boiling rage that built over the almost 3 years of Caylee's life.

I think she just flipped a switch and said "oh ya, all you so and so's who think Caylee is so sweet and just love her, where are you when "I" want to go out and do something for myself. Nobody wants to help ME when I want to do something. It's all about Caylee Caylee Caylee. Well if nobody will babysit then FINE!" I think she very calmly and quickly, went in to the garage, grabbed the duct tape, covered her mouth so there would be no noise, maybe chloroformed her first. I do have my suspicions that chloroform may be a red herring here. She may have made some and it may have leaked or spilled in her trunk or maybe she used it on Caylee, not sure, but for me the key piece is the duct tape. I think she very calmly tossed her in the trunk so as not to see or hear. Out of sight, out of mind, and went on her date with Tone.

I honestly do not believe that there was ever a plan to stage a kidnapping or say the nanny did it. I believe she just did it on the spur of the moment. I think she fantasized what life would be like without Caylee and Tone wanted boys anyway, so all those things that made Caylee a noose around ICA neck came to a peak at that time. CA threatening a custody fight, her new friends, Tone, it just peaked and without thinking it through she did it.

I think that telling people in the begining that Caylee was with the Nanny was just a way to explain her absence. I really don't think she thought more than a day at a time. She just kept hedging her parents, trying to deal with each thing that cropped up, like the smell in the car and so on.

The idea of the Nanny came to her over the month of repeating again and again that the Nanny had her. Who better to blame her disappearance on than the Nanny who supposedly had her all this time anyway. It was just an extension to her lie that was already in place. Caylee was with Zanny.

I don't believe there was alot of thought or planning, I think she just did it and went day by day, knowing all the while that something was gonna give, so she enjoyed every second she had before it all hit the fan. I firmly believe that she would never have reported her missing and that she was starting to formulate a plan on how to get away from her parents so they would never know Caylee was missing. I think she was going to move to California to Mark Hawkins, but she really really liked Tone so kept staying just a little longer, just a little longer thinking soon, I'll figure it all out soon, but then she got caught.

I do believe she is a sociopath and I believe that the A's have been through hell with her. So much so that they just "let sleeping dogs lie" If she wasn't hurting them or Caylee and things were running smoothly they just turned a blind eye to her "job" and other things they suspected were lies. I have no sympathy for the A's because they added the fuel for Casey's fire, but living with a true Sociopath is punishment enough. Unless you've had the distinct experience of dealing with a sociopath it's hard to understand. You do NOT want to rock the boat, it's like walking on eggshells. You try and keep the peace at all costs. Unfortunately for the A's the cost was Caylee.

JMOO, sorry it was so long. I've spent 3 years thinking about this and as much as all these long twisty theories have gone through my mind. I think it was just very simple and unplanned. I honestly think people are disecting it too much and are reading way to much into the most minute thing. Occam's Razor.

 

[GeekyGirl]

I have a question about the fight. I'd never heard of it before coming here (I'm pretty new to the case), so I was surprised it wasn't mentioned in court. But from what I can tell here, it's just hearsay: some friend told Lee that Casey said it happened, and Lee told police, right? And neither of the parties involved have admitted that it happened? If so, it really strikes me as unreliable, though I agree it would make a good motive. Who can believe anything Casey says, and certainly what a third party says a friend says she says? I'm just wondering if I have the source of the info correct; I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything.

That's the way I understand it to be, but then again, I'm fairly new here too. IIRC there my also be something about a neighbor hearing the fight?

 

[SMK]

I have a question about the fight. I'd never heard of it before coming here (I'm pretty new to the case), so I was surprised it wasn't mentioned in court. But from what I can tell here, it's just hearsay: some friend told Lee that Casey said it happened, and Lee told police, right? And neither of the parties involved have admitted that it happened? If so, it really strikes me as unreliable, though I agree it would make a good motive. Who can believe anything Casey says, and certainly what a third party says a friend says she says? I'm just wondering if I have the source of the info correct; I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything.

I have heard that it was so loud that neighbors heard it. Lee would likely be the one who conveyed the fight. Although it has not been part of factual evidence, it surely is believable, given the stealing Casey had done from Cindy and her parents, and the volatile nature of the mother/daughter relationship, and the power struggle over the little child. Recall, Cindy would not WANT to admit that she had inadvertently provoked what happened next. It is a reasonable trigger. (if you can call killing your child "reasonable" which i do not ) But yes, there is no "proof" I know of. altho a doctor speaks of it on her website, body language expert, cannot recall her name now....

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

The last statement in that article is very interesting...

In another story about this lady the last paragraph of the story reads

The night before, court documents show, Megan Hogg had argued with her mother about the children. Hogg later told officers that she had been upset because her mother had threatened to kick her out of the house and to get physical custody of the children.

http://articles.sfgate.com/1999-09-25/news/17699298_1_greg-hogg-medication-sentenced/2

This has a familiar ring to it.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

 

[GeekyGirl]

I've tried and tried and tried to make all the evidence and facts work out a plausible scenario that I like, but it just doesn't work. I don't like any of them.

My mind just does not want to go to cold calculated, duct tape to the face murder. I keep going over every kind of accidental theory I can such as drowning in the pool, accidental OD from chloroform or Xanax, I even thought for a while that she backed in the garage with a sleeping Caylee in the car and thought because it was so hot out, she'd let the car run for air conditioning and accidentally killed her with carbon monoxide and when she found an overheated Caylee, she plunged her into the pool, but it was too late, she pulled her out and layed her in the back yard, thus the dog hits. I could go on and on, but they never sit well with me.

I really really tried to find a plausible scenario. Three years later, I still can't find anything accidental to fit. It ALL comes back to the duct tape.

The only thing that works for me, is a very angry Casey, either because of the fight with CA or because she called all kinds of people the afternoon of the 16th and not one of those so called people who love her will take Caylee so she could be with Tone that night. I think this was a slow boiling rage that built over the almost 3 years of Caylee's life.

I think she just flipped a switch and said "oh ya, all you so and so's who think Caylee is so sweet and just love her, where are you when "I" want to go out and do something for myself. Nobody wants to help ME when I want to do something. It's all about Caylee Caylee Caylee. Well if nobody will babysit then FINE!" I think she very calmly and quickly, went in to the garage, grabbed the duct tape, covered her mouth so there would be no noise, maybe chloroformed her first. I do have my suspicions that chloroform may be a red herring here. She may have made some and it may have leaked or spilled in her trunk or maybe she used it on Caylee, not sure, but for me the key piece is the duct tape. I think she very calmly tossed her in the trunk so as not to see or hear. Out of sight, out of mind, and went on her date with Tone.

I honestly do not believe that there was ever a plan to stage a kidnapping or say the nanny did it. I believe she just did it on the spur of the moment. I think she fantasized what life would be like without Caylee and Tone wanted boys anyway, so all those things that made Caylee a noose around ICA neck came to a peak at that time. CA threatening a custody fight, her new friends, Tone, it just peaked and without thinking it through she did it.

I think that telling people in the begining that Caylee was with the Nanny was just a way to explain her absence. I really don't think she thought more than a day at a time. She just kept hedging her parents, trying to deal with each thing that cropped up, like the smell in the car and so on.

The idea of the Nanny came to her over the month of repeating again and again that the Nanny had her. Who better to blame her disappearance on than the Nanny who supposedly had her all this time anyway. It was just an extension to her lie that was already in place. Caylee was with Zanny.

I don't believe there was alot of thought or planning, I think she just did it and went day by day, knowing all the while that something was gonna give, so she enjoyed every second she had before it all hit the fan. I firmly believe that she would never have reported her missing and that she was starting to formulate a plan on how to get away from her parents so they would never know Caylee was missing. I think she was going to move to California to Mark Hawkins, but she really really liked Tone so kept staying just a little longer, just a little longer thinking soon, I'll figure it all out soon, but then she got caught.

I do believe she is a sociopath and I believe that the A's have been through hell with her. So much so that they just "let sleeping dogs lie" If she wasn't hurting them or Caylee and things were running smoothly they just turned a blind eye to her "job" and other things they suspected were lies. I have no sympathy for the A's because they added the fuel for Casey's fire, but living with a true Sociopath is punishment enough. Unless you've had the distinct experience of dealing with a sociopath it's hard to understand. You do NOT want to rock the boat, it's like walking on eggshells. You try and keep the peace at all costs. Unfortunately for the A's the cost was Caylee.

JMOO, sorry it was so long. I've spent 3 years thinking about this and as much as all these long twisty theories have gone through my mind. I think it was just very simple and unplanned. I honestly think people are disecting it too much are reading way to much into the most minute thing. Occam's Razor.

I'll have to think on this. This is, IMO, the most well thought argument for duct tape that I've heard, and the only one that even comes close to having that gut "ahh, I can see" feeling. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[GeekyGirl]

I have heard that it was so loud that neighbors heard it. Lee would likely be the one who conveyed the fight. Although it has not been part of factual evidence, it surely is believable, given the stealing Casey had done from Cindy and her parents, and the volatile nature of the mother/daughter relationship, and the power struggle over the little child. Recall, Cindy would not WANT to admit that she had inadvertently provoked what happened next. It is a reasonable trigger. (if you can call killing your child "reasonable" which i do not ) But yes, there is no "proof" I know of. altho a doctor speaks of it on her website, body language expert, cannot recall her name now....

I think Dr. Lillian Glass? Could be wrong.

 

[Doodlelover]

I have a question about the fight. I'd never heard of it before coming here (I'm pretty new to the case), so I was surprised it wasn't mentioned in court. But from what I can tell here, it's just hearsay: some friend told Lee that Casey said it happened, and Lee told police, right? And neither of the parties involved have admitted that it happened? If so, it really strikes me as unreliable, though I agree it would make a good motive. Who can believe anything Casey says, and certainly what a third party says a friend says she says? I'm just wondering if I have the source of the info correct; I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything.

I have read two things that stick with me about the fight. One was Jesse Grund saying Lee told him and one from Leonard Padilla also saying Lee told him that CA and ICA had a huge fight and CA tried to strangle ICA and told her she was going to take Caylee.

The other thing is way back when Cindy was asked about the fight, she went into way too much denail. Me thinks she doth protest too much. Now on the stand, she says when she got home from the Retirement home, later that evening when Casey got home they watched home movies and had a big love fest. This has never rung true to me. CA had just talked to her Mom that afternoon about ICA stealing from CA's Mom. I'm sure CA was spitting mad. I don't picture a love fest after dealing with yet another theft by ICA.

I believe the fight happened. There was a report of a neighbor hearing 2 fights close together around that time.
HTH

 

[SMK]

I think Dr. Lillian Glass? Could be wrong.

Yes, thanks! That is the name I was looking for!