Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #8

[suzihawk]

This is my very first post. I am honored to be permitted to speak on your renowned forum - thankyou.
If I may introduce myself briefly ... I am a middle-aged Australian male, a former armed forces intelligence analyst and have had a keen interest in criminlogy since I can remember. I am a long, long-time lurker, having been snooping around here for the past couple of years, and finally feel I may be able to contribute in some small way.
I have gone over and over transcipts, depositions, evidence, dynamics and your own brilliant summations in this case ... and then, as have so many, gone over them again! But I keep getting sidetracked, thrown off course or am forced to dismiss a theory or conclusion I come up with. It's one amazing puzzle!
If I allow my mind to cast aside the stories of lying, stealing, lost phones, cheese cartons, tire irons and tampering, one thing I find myself continually returning to is the play sand and small plastic toys at the (excuse the expression) dump site.
My latest theory and opinion is this:
The ever-escalating argument (no need to confuse ourselves over the reasons) between Cindy and Casey comes to a head on the night of the 15th.
Everyone goes to bed.
Casey texts and speaks to AL pretty much for hours on end except for one break of more than an hour in the very early hours of the 16th. This is the time she kills Caylee - by choking, smothering, drugging, chloroforming - who knows?
In the dead of night, she carries limp little Caylee out to the sandpit and places her in it, possibly covering her with sand, possibly not - it has a lid. In a rare moment of compassion - the only one she's ever had - she notices that sand is getting in Caylee's mouth and nose. This is where the duct tape and heart sticker come in.
(I do not believe for one minute that Cindy "heard them breathing" the next morning or that George saw them leave the house - they are either lying or confused),
She realises how risky this could be - what if the parents or family dogs discover Caylee in there? After a couple of days of texts, calls and sneaking around to ensure G and C are not home, she gets her chance. But Caylee has become a little bit icky. She backs her car into the garage and borrows the shovel. She picks Caylee up with the shovel and puts her into a bag, then another one. In the process, she has unavoidedly had to shovel some sand and plastic toys into the bag with Caylee.
The laundry basket with handles comes in handy for placing Caylee into the trunk of the car - after all, she doesn't want to have to actually TOUCH her.
IMO The short trip to Suburban is the only time Caylee was ever in the trunk of the car, but it was long enough to create the smell due to leakage.
Play sand and toys are found at the scene.

Why, when Greta van Susteren opened the lid of the sandbox during her backyard stroll with Cindy, was the sandbox set up full of Caylee's toys in an almost "shrine-like" manner?

Welcome to WS, Well Done. And... well done!

From the first moment I saw Greta open the lid on the sandbox and the hair stood up on the back of my neck, I'v never waivered in my belief that Caylee was placed there for a brief time until Casey could figure out what to do with her. I'm not sure she used the borrowed shovel since no DNA was found on it, although that may have been her initial intention.

Yup, I absolutely believe that sandbox was Caylee's temporary coffin.

 

[Well Done 99]

Thanks for your welcome suzihawk. Yes, you may be right about the shovel (no DNA). One further question I have had is, was the remaining sand from the sandbox used for the "landscaping" which was apparently paramount during a time of loss? Forgive me if I've missed the answer somewhere

 

[Schu7]

I am a middle-aged Australian male, a former armed forces intelligence analyst and have had a keen interest in criminlogy since I can remember.

Welcome! I do not feel so alone here now. I worked US Army Intelligence for 10 years before you were born. But the game is the same, as you know. I did work some with a few of your intelligence people in Vietnam. From what I remember, they must have been OK. Mark me down for the low level reconnaissance scout sector. I always worked alone. And did other assignment duties I would rather forget. So you were an analyst? The people that always took my work results and claimed it was never enough.:banghead: Well carry on here in the same way please.:rocker:

 

[erinleigh]

It is astounding how many things worked in Casey Anthony's favor.

So many things could have/should have happened which would have led to a different result. Circumstances dating from 6/15 all the way through the jury selection (at which point the case was lost, in my opinion). ALL of these circumstances have been fortuitous for Casey Anthony. It's weird.

I can't help but wonder why. I'm not sold on the theory that karma will get you in the end - we have all seen too many get away with too much. But it sure seems that something is at work here.

It is almost like a big pile of firewood being readied for a bonfire. I think this story is far from over.

you may be right. for karma to take hard effect you would have to be "on top of the world" for a while. kinda like the bigger they are the harder they fall. maybe karma is bulding her up just to take her down hard someday. im sure KC is feeling mighty invincible about now....at least this is the thought that keeps me going. her behavior is truly disgusting. she seems to break every one of the 10 commadments with no remorse.

 

[erinleigh]

This is my very first post. I am honored to be permitted to speak on your renowned forum - thankyou.
If I may introduce myself briefly ... I am a middle-aged Australian male, a former armed forces intelligence analyst and have had a keen interest in criminlogy since I can remember. I am a long, long-time lurker, having been snooping around here for the past couple of years, and finally feel I may be able to contribute in some small way.
I have gone over and over transcipts, depositions, evidence, dynamics and your own brilliant summations in this case ... and then, as have so many, gone over them again! But I keep getting sidetracked, thrown off course or am forced to dismiss a theory or conclusion I come up with. It's one amazing puzzle!
If I allow my mind to cast aside the stories of lying, stealing, lost phones, cheese cartons, tire irons and tampering, one thing I find myself continually returning to is the play sand and small plastic toys at the (excuse the expression) dump site.
My latest theory and opinion is this:
The ever-escalating argument (no need to confuse ourselves over the reasons) between Cindy and Casey comes to a head on the night of the 15th.
Everyone goes to bed.
Casey texts and speaks to AL pretty much for hours on end except for one break of more than an hour in the very early hours of the 16th. This is the time she kills Caylee - by choking, smothering, drugging, chloroforming - who knows?
In the dead of night, she carries limp little Caylee out to the sandpit and places her in it, possibly covering her with sand, possibly not - it has a lid. In a rare moment of compassion - the only one she's ever had - she notices that sand is getting in Caylee's mouth and nose. This is where the duct tape and heart sticker come in.
(I do not believe for one minute that Cindy "heard them breathing" the next morning or that George saw them leave the house - they are either lying or confused),
She realises how risky this could be - what if the parents or family dogs discover Caylee in there? After a couple of days of texts, calls and sneaking around to ensure G and C are not home, she gets her chance. But Caylee has become a little bit icky. She backs her car into the garage and borrows the shovel. She picks Caylee up with the shovel and puts her into a bag, then another one. In the process, she has unavoidedly had to shovel some sand and plastic toys into the bag with Caylee.
The laundry basket with handles comes in handy for placing Caylee into the trunk of the car - after all, she doesn't want to have to actually TOUCH her.
IMO The short trip to Suburban is the only time Caylee was ever in the trunk of the car, but it was long enough to create the smell due to leakage.
Play sand and toys are found at the scene.

Why, when Greta van Susteren opened the lid of the sandbox during her backyard stroll with Cindy, was the sandbox set up full of Caylee's toys in an almost "shrine-like" manner?

if your theory is correct that may explain why some people early on did not smell anything. maybe since it was leakage it got progressivly worse. meaning on the "gas can incident" day the smell would be bad but since the incident was a quick opening and slaming of the trunk the gas odor was able to hide it for the brief second the trunk was open. i think KC put the gas cans in her car and removed the valve to try and mask the smell.

 

[Eric's_Iguana]

if we believe duct tape is the murder weapon then we would have to believe when casey stormed out on the 15th she took duct tape from the house with her in the car. unless she she left with caylee, drugged her to keep her quiet while she was on phone with TonE all night and then brought the body back home and duct taped her face post mortem.

Or she could have had duct tape in the car, left over from taping her American flag at the anything but clothes party.

 

[Flossie JMO]

she killed her night of 15th /early hours 16th imo

 

[LambChop]

Or she could have had duct tape in the car, left over from taping her American flag at the anything but clothes party.

KC used Amy's graffing tape which is different tan duct tape. jmo

 

[Well Done 99]

So you were an analyst? The people that always took my work results and claimed it was never enough.:banghead: Well carry on here in the same way please.:rocker:

LOL Yes that was us Schu7. I would love to continue on in the same way here, but unfortunately this is a completely different ball game. Waaaay too much "Cindy code" and "Casey cipher"!

 

[Well Done 99]

if your theory is correct that may explain why some people early on did not smell anything. maybe since it was leakage it got progressivly worse. meaning on the "gas can incident" day the smell would be bad but since the incident was a quick opening and slaming of the trunk the gas odor was able to hide it for the brief second the trunk was open. i think KC put the gas cans in her car and removed the valve to try and mask the smell.

The "smell progression" would be my opinion too erinleigh. There were those in the vicinity of the car in later days too, of course, but it seems they quite simply may not have smelled it.
I have always thought that the gas cans had more to do with the smell than running out of gas (after all, her gas gauge was found to be working).
It also crossed my my mind at one stage that she may have intended to go back and burn Caylee's body, but that she was unable to find or create the opportunity, or she chickened out.

 

[Schu7]

LOL Yes that was us Schu7. I would love to continue on in the same way here, but unfortunately this is a completely different ball game. Waaaay too much "Cindy code" and "Casey cipher"!

Maybe a code reversal book would be of help here? And maybe not. These people make their own "players" codes up as they go. And as circumstances warrant. But it has a unique advantage for this old guy. It gives me a clearer picture into the thinking of the younger people.:waitasec:

Oh forget factoring in any common sense in this Casey case. Common sense died early on in this sick situation for the all endless players, sadly.:banghead:

 

[Schu7]

(after all, her gas gauge was found to be working)

The police investigators found the gas gauge did work. That it did not work was a Casey lie. Complicity and all around all the guilty Anthony's here. As usual. So George never corrected Casey's lie to his known truth here. Just as Cindy told George to do. Back Casey's lies any way possible. A lie of omission for George. An overt lie by Casey to her friends. And the prosecutors were just wrong not to expose these lies in any form or way.

 

[BondJamesBond]

This is my very first post. I am honored to be permitted to speak on your renowned forum - thankyou.
If I may introduce myself briefly ... I am a middle-aged Australian male, a former armed forces intelligence analyst and have had a keen interest in criminlogy since I can remember. I am a long, long-time lurker, having been snooping around here for the past couple of years, and finally feel I may be able to contribute in some small way.
I have gone over and over transcipts, depositions, evidence, dynamics and your own brilliant summations in this case ... and then, as have so many, gone over them again! But I keep getting sidetracked, thrown off course or am forced to dismiss a theory or conclusion I come up with. It's one amazing puzzle!
If I allow my mind to cast aside the stories of lying, stealing, lost phones, cheese cartons, tire irons and tampering, one thing I find myself continually returning to is the play sand and small plastic toys at the (excuse the expression) dump site.
My latest theory and opinion is this:
The ever-escalating argument (no need to confuse ourselves over the reasons) between Cindy and Casey comes to a head on the night of the 15th.
Everyone goes to bed.
Casey texts and speaks to AL pretty much for hours on end except for one break of more than an hour in the very early hours of the 16th. This is the time she kills Caylee - by choking, smothering, drugging, chloroforming - who knows?
In the dead of night, she carries limp little Caylee out to the sandpit and places her in it, possibly covering her with sand, possibly not - it has a lid. In a rare moment of compassion - the only one she's ever had - she notices that sand is getting in Caylee's mouth and nose. This is where the duct tape and heart sticker come in.
(I do not believe for one minute that Cindy "heard them breathing" the next morning or that George saw them leave the house - they are either lying or confused),
She realises how risky this could be - what if the parents or family dogs discover Caylee in there? After a couple of days of texts, calls and sneaking around to ensure G and C are not home, she gets her chance. But Caylee has become a little bit icky. She backs her car into the garage and borrows the shovel. She picks Caylee up with the shovel and puts her into a bag, then another one. In the process, she has unavoidedly had to shovel some sand and plastic toys into the bag with Caylee.
The laundry basket with handles comes in handy for placing Caylee into the trunk of the car - after all, she doesn't want to have to actually TOUCH her.
IMO The short trip to Suburban is the only time Caylee was ever in the trunk of the car, but it was long enough to create the smell due to leakage.
Play sand and toys are found at the scene.

Why, when Greta van Susteren opened the lid of the sandbox during her backyard stroll with Cindy, was the sandbox set up full of Caylee's toys in an almost "shrine-like" manner?

Welcome, Well Done. And, (how can I resist)...well done. Nice to see how you sorted through the pieces of evidence and fit them together to arrive at this theory. I always appreciate reading through a theory that makes the effort to fit the available information.

 

[Well Done 99]

Welcome, Well Done. And, (how can I resist)...well done. Nice to see how you sorted through the pieces of evidence and fit them together to arrive at this theory. I always appreciate reading through a theory that makes the effort to fit the available information.

Thankyou BJB. It is certainly flattering to be welcomed by you, one of my favorite posters on WS.
As I say though, this is simply the latest in a seemingly never-ending series of theories for me. No doubt it can easily be proven incorrect .... just as all the others have!

 

[roseofsharon]

I always felt it was suspect, that KC would call/text? AL when she ran out of gas the first time.

Instead of the two of them borrowing a gas can from the gas station that was supposedly close by and putting just enough gas in the car to get it home, the two of them go to the A's home in AL's vehicle, AL takes a crowbar to the lock on the shed door, steals the gas cans and returns to KC's car.

Why would one go to all this trouble, when a gas station has a gas can on site for this very purpose.

I have always maintained, KC was setting up AL to obtain his fingerprints on the crowbar and possibly the shed door handle. KC probably knew GA would contact the police regarding the stolen property.

Jimo

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I always felt it was suspect, that KC would call/text? AL when she ran out of gas the first time.

Instead of the two of them borrowing a gas can from the gas station that was supposedly close by and putting just enough gas in the car to get it home, the two of them go to the A's home in AL's vehicle, AL takes a crowbar to the lock on the shed door, steal the gas cans and return to KC's car.

Why would one go to all this trouble, when a gas station has a gas can on site for this very purpose.

I have always maintained, KC was setting up AL to obtain his fingerprints on the crowbar and possibly the shed door handle. KC probably knew GA would contact the police regarding the stolen property.

Jimo

I don't know about Orlando, but around here(Sacramento) gas stations don't "loan" gas cans out.Maybe sell them, but give them to people who ran out of gas? I don't think they would get many back if they did.

 

[roseofsharon]

I don't know about Orlando, but around here(Sacramento) gas stations don't "loan" gas cans out.Maybe sell them, but give them to people who ran out of gas? I don't think they would get many back if they did.

Really -- where I live, gas stations usually work on an honour system or sometimes a $10.00 deposit for the can and if one choses not to return it, they have bought it.

I say can, but really they are plastic.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Really -- where I live, gas stations usually work on an honour system or sometimes a $10.00 deposit for the can and if one choses not to return it, they have bought it.

I say can, but really they are plastic.

Well, I guess its where you live whether you can trust people.I see you use the British spelling honour vs honor.

 

[Well Done 99]

I have always maintained, KC was setting up AL to obtain his fingerprints on the crowbar and possibly the shed door handle. KC probably knew GA would contact the police regarding the stolen property.

+respectfully snipped+

Not to mention fingerprints on the gas cans themselves. It was probably HE who physically picked the cans up in the shed and it was HE (although she didn't allow him to actually pour the gas) who handed them to her at the car.

Poor old AL may well have been in line to get snared in the big net.

IIRC, KC IM'd Iassen? that she wasn't sure she would be able to continue a relationship with AL due to his plans to move to NY. I read this to possibly mean that she had every intention of breaking it off with him once he had served his purpose.

Were the "all-night" calls and texts to AL on the night of 15/16th designed to create some sort of alibi? Whilst AL obviously and rightly would have claimed he was on the phone, he was still being "used" by KC - something she appears to very good at.

 

[DAWN TREADER]

This is my very first post. I am honored to be permitted to speak on your renowned forum - thankyou.
If I may introduce myself briefly ... I am a middle-aged Australian male, a former armed forces intelligence analyst and have had a keen interest in criminlogy since I can remember. I am a long, long-time lurker, having been snooping around here for the past couple of years, and finally feel I may be able to contribute in some small way.
I have gone over and over transcipts, depositions, evidence, dynamics and your own brilliant summations in this case ... and then, as have so many, gone over them again! But I keep getting sidetracked, thrown off course or am forced to dismiss a theory or conclusion I come up with. It's one amazing puzzle!
If I allow my mind to cast aside the stories of lying, stealing, lost phones, cheese cartons, tire irons and tampering, one thing I find myself continually returning to is the play sand and small plastic toys at the (excuse the expression) dump site.
My latest theory and opinion is this:
The ever-escalating argument (no need to confuse ourselves over the reasons) between Cindy and Casey comes to a head on the night of the 15th.
Everyone goes to bed.
Casey texts and speaks to AL pretty much for hours on end except for one break of more than an hour in the very early hours of the 16th. This is the time she kills Caylee - by choking, smothering, drugging, chloroforming - who knows?
In the dead of night, she carries limp little Caylee out to the sandpit and places her in it, possibly covering her with sand, possibly not - it has a lid. In a rare moment of compassion - the only one she's ever had - she notices that sand is getting in Caylee's mouth and nose. This is where the duct tape and heart sticker come in.
(I do not believe for one minute that Cindy "heard them breathing" the next morning or that George saw them leave the house - they are either lying or confused),
She realises how risky this could be - what if the parents or family dogs discover Caylee in there? After a couple of days of texts, calls and sneaking around to ensure G and C are not home, she gets her chance. But Caylee has become a little bit icky. She backs her car into the garage and borrows the shovel. She picks Caylee up with the shovel and puts her into a bag, then another one. In the process, she has unavoidedly had to shovel some sand and plastic toys into the bag with Caylee.
The laundry basket with handles comes in handy for placing Caylee into the trunk of the car - after all, she doesn't want to have to actually TOUCH her.
IMO The short trip to Suburban is the only time Caylee was ever in the trunk of the car, but it was long enough to create the smell due to leakage.
Play sand and toys are found at the scene.

Why, when Greta van Susteren opened the lid of the sandbox during her backyard stroll with Cindy, was the sandbox set up full of Caylee's toys in an almost "shrine-like" manner?

Welcome aboard WD! Great post!

:wave: DT