Theories

[Ravyn]

Now since I always heard no signs of struggle how her room looked,staging once again.Or someone being upset or mad. The one thing that always had me wordering,In ST book, well if she hit her head in the bathroom,there's no way she screamed in the basement,so if she screamed this might mean before giong to bed, she was lead to the basement.Maybe told that she had one more gift down there, this is just my opionion,I know I'm just going off the wall here.

 

[Ames]

Now since I always heard no signs of struggle how her room looked,staging once again.Or someone being upset or mad. The one thing that always had me wordering,In ST book, well if she hit her head in the bathroom,there's no way she screamed in the basement,so if she screamed this might mean before giong to bed, she was lead to the basement.Maybe told that she had one more gift down there, this is just my opionion,I know I'm just going off the wall here.

I don't believe that it was JB that screamed...I believe that it was Patsy, when she had realized what she had done. The lady that heard the scream...(Stratton), was inside of HER home, when she heard a scream coming from inside the Ramsey's home...after JB's death, she said that it sounded like a child's scream. How in the heck could she tell?? I believe that she heard a FEMALE scream...and that it was Patsy. I just don't think that she would have been able to definately nail down the age of the person that screamed...considering the walls that it would have had to have gone through, and the distance it would have had to travel. Melody (or was it Melanie), I believe said that her bedroom window was open. But, I find it hard to believe that anybody living in Colorado, would open their windows, in the middle of winter. We used to live in Montana, two states up from Colorado....and there is no way that we would have been able to open our windows, in Dec. We would have froze our butts off.

 

[DeeDee249]

They found very little creatinine on them.........JBR hadn't wet the bed that night.

There was creatinine, though. Dried urine/creatine can't be dated- it is impossible to tell when it was left, so it cannot be said with certainty that she did not wet the bed that night. I happen to believe she never went to bed that night, though she was likely changed out of her pants in her bedroom OR bathroom. The dried urine on the sheets was probably from the previous night- Christmas Eve. The housekeeper LHP was there last on Dec. 23, the day of the Ramsey Christmas party, and LHP said she changed JBR's sheets that day. She wasn't due back until Dec. 26 after the Rs had left for their trip. When LHP was shown crime scene photos of JBR's bedroom she said the sheets on the bed were not the ones she put on when she was last there on the 23rd. So from that we may deduce that JBR wet the bed either the night of the 23rd (the infamous aborted 911 call/"i don't feel pretty tears") or Christmas Eve. Or both. I believe PR changed the sheets herself because LHP wasn't coming and didn't bother to go to the basement to get the blanket (where LHP said it was always washed because it didn't fit in the upstairs washer). That's why the crime photos show JBR's bed with different sheets and no blanket.

 

[Ravyn]

So if this is the case if Patsy changed the sheets after LHP this means she would most likely changed the Christmas morning also.Now ST said there was pull ups in the closet I think outside JonBenet's room,so this shows that she must had used them,cause that the one thing that bugged me if PR changed her it wouldn't be that hard to get a pull up on her. Now if PR had a plastic cover on her bed and pull ups, safe to say she was prepare for little accidents like wetting the bed. As someone said before its hard to see PR doing this but every line is perfectly line is pointing to her.Sometimes I just don't see a little girl dying on wetting the bed.

 

[JMO8778]

I think it was a combo of everything...JB was starting to rebel against Patsy,they had not gotten along Christmas day at all..Patsy appears to have gotten upset that JB didn't like the doll that was supposed to be an extra-special present for her;she didn't want to dress Patsy for the party..LHP says in the days bf the murder,that she had never seen Patsy so upset;she'd been arguing with JB over every little thing..little things like wearing a dress or having a friend over...plus remember that Patsy was a cancer survivor,had a lot on her plate during the holidays that yr,and she may have been taking med/s and or had a drink or two that evening (that much she admits to)..IMO it was a combo of a strong-willed child (completely normal at that age,but I think Patsy was immature and took it personally),and a mother who was NOT going to put up with a daughter who went against her own likes and her own wishes,and IMO there was probably a struggle that lead up to the head injury;they were probably both tired and irritable from a long day and it may have been something as simple as resisting getting her clothes changed for bed that started it all.

 

[Ravyn]

Ok about the I'm not pretty tears,now I heard of this but I heard it was at the White's party.Now on this sound like sexually abuse why I speak from knowing first hand on how this affects a child,the child lashes out on the one the feel like there is to protect them.See when my oldest was six in a half he was molested by someone my mother and I thought we could trust my step-father,now it came to the head when awoke one night with my boy screaming Mommie over and over and ran to him and woke him up he said mommie i had a dream you went to sleep and never woke up.Then everything was set in motion.Now maybe Patsy should had seen or asked JonBenet what's wrong,but the investigators that handle these cases told me that the reason why a child lashes out they been told if they told then they might be pretty or they been ugly.And they wet the bed other than taking the chance than seeing the person during the night.And if JonBenet did make the call that night to 911,she found out just powerful her molestor was.But I honestly heard it was at the White's.

 

[DeeDee249]

Ok about the I'm not pretty tears,now I heard of this but I heard it was at the White's party.Now on this sound like sexually abuse why I speak from knowing first hand on how this affects a child,the child lashes out on the one the feel like there is to protect them.See when my oldest was six in a half he was molested by someone my mother and I thought we could trust my step-father,now it came to the head when awoke one night with my boy screaming Mommie over and over and ran to him and woke him up he said mommie i had a dream you went to sleep and never woke up.Then everything was set in motion.Now maybe Patsy should had seen or asked JonBenet what's wrong,but the investigators that handle these cases told me that the reason why a child lashes out they been told if they told then they might be pretty or they been ugly.And they wet the bed other than taking the chance than seeing the person during the night.And if JonBenet did make the call that night to 911,she found out just powerful her molestor was.But I honestly heard it was at the White's.

I am so sorry you and your child had to through that horrible experience. I hope he is doing well. Abuse is so damaging in every way.
The event where JBR was crying saying she "didn't feel pretty" happened at the Ramsey Christmas party at their home on December 23rd. JBR was found sitting in a stairwell crying and when asked why, "I don't feel pretty" was her reply. No further explanation was ever provided by anyone at that party, though I am sure there must have been more to it and someone there may have probed further.
There was also a 911 call made from the R home that night. When police arrived, the R friend SS answered the door and would not let police inside, saying the call had "been a mistake". Now, I don't know about Boulder, but where I live, when a 911 call is placed, police MUST enter the home to be sure there is no person in distress inside. The Rs managed to elude this, however.

 

[JMO8778]

according to Thomas' book,it was at the party on the 23rd,the same night of the odd hang-up 911 call.the one that Susan Stine answered via the intercom and didn't open the door when LE arrived.

I sometimes wonder if JB's words were paraphrased on that...were her exact words 'I don't feel pretty',or was it something even worse??? KWIM??

 

[BBB167893]

Ravyn, I think you should talk to LinasK. She could help you.

 

[Ravyn]

Same here,where I live the poilce as to check I know my youngest called 911 one night told the police officer that he needed help cause Mommie said no more videos games cause it was time for bed.And the police was there to help people so he looks at the police officer real innocently said help me.And thanks SD sometimes till this day it is still haunting the both of us.

 

[Ravyn]

Now this might not be the last time I bring up the scream.But the coroner did the incident about the brush handle was gone to her while she was alive,could this had happen at the time of scream. But I have to wonder like Tadpole12 what the heck is a negative scream.

 

[DeeDee249]

Now this might not be the last time I bring up the scream.But the coroner did the incident about the brush handle was gone to her while she was alive,could this had happen at the time of scream. But I have to wonder like Tadpole12 what the heck is a negative scream.

Yes, LE had said that the injuries in her vagina would have been very painful if she had been awake when it happened, and it would certainly have caused her to scream.
The "negative" scream you refer to was something the neighbor who heard the scream (Melanie Stanton) mentioned after she tried to recant her statement about hearing the scream. She didn't want to get involved, and many feel her going back on what she said was because the R lawyers had gotten to her and threatened her. So she said maybe she didn't hear a real scream, but "negative" energy coming from JBR. How very "Boulder". Later she did once again admit she did hear a real scream.

 

[Ravyn]

thank you,deep down I always hoped she didn't feel that,so now its very possible this lil angel saw everything coming. I know everything points straight to PR but is there anything link to that JR could had done this and made it look like PR,cause heck with not being able to see the phone records he could had called an lawyer that night. And I also wonder about the lady walking her dog at 1 in the morning shoot she must have been a icicle by the time she got done.

 

[Ravyn]

Does anyone have a link about toilet rage cause they sound like they heard about this alot and please make the link other than the one on PR. I been looking for it and can't seen to find it nowhere.

 

[Ravyn]

And the reason that what happen to my child when he was younger still haunts me cause I didn't see it as a Mom I felt like I personally failed him.But remember he was born Aug 22,1984

 

[DeeDee249]

And the reason that what happen to my child when he was younger still haunts me cause I didn't see it as a Mom I felt like I personally failed him.But remember he was born Aug 22,1984

Please don't feel like that. You didn't personally fail your child if you didn't realize what was happening. The only way a parent can be blamed for failing to protect their child is if they know about abuse and fail to stop it.
It's almost impossible for a mom to not feel guilty. But I am sure if you could have stopped it, you would have.

 

[Ravyn]

Thank you, when my babay was sitting there telling me what happen it was so hard to stay calm but for him I needed to be calm,but deep gown I really just wanted to take my step- father out of this world but I let the police take care of him and what the funny part of this he couldn't understand why my mother left him.

 

[Tadpole12]

Yes, LE had said that the injuries in her vagina would have been very painful if she had been awake when it happened, and it would certainly have caused her to scream.
The "negative" scream you refer to was something the neighbor who heard the scream (Melanie Stanton) mentioned after she tried to recant her statement about hearing the scream. She didn't want to get involved, and many feel her going back on what she said was because the R lawyers had gotten to her and threatened her. So she said maybe she didn't hear a real scream, but "negative" energy coming from JBR. How very "Boulder". Later she did once again admit she did hear a real scream.

How very "Boulder",
ah so.
I was wondering about MS intuitive powers and had wondered why she felt the need to recant or kinda discount her witness statement that way, with the mention of her 'ability'.

 

[Ravyn]

Is it possible other than threatening her the lawyers could had pay her off and when the money was gone wanted more

 

[JMO8778]

even the R's didn't deny there was a scream heard.at least not after Smit 'proved' it could be better heard from outside,if she was in the basement.IF she was in the basement.what if Patsy had gotten hot and had cracked a window a bit?Thomas did mention it got hot in JB's room sometimes,and she would kick the covers back.
it helped the R's cause after Smit pulled that stunt.the thing is,Thomas said the house was so quiet at night,you could hear a pin drop.