Theory - Illegal Adoption was EJ's Plan A

[Boo Scout]

Dec. 26 I believe EJ handed Gabriel off to the couple at some point on this day. I think she washed his clothes while she was waiting at the laundromat just to pass the time, or to give to the couple, who may not have ended up wanting them. She spoke to DeLeon at the laundromat and knew for sure she was taking off for FL at that point but she was NOT talkative.

Please weigh in - I know there are holes, but I do believe that as more information on sightings has become available, there's a plausible timeline to support an illegal adoption scenario.

In the first post on this thread, I stopped at Dec 26 and didn't say much about the days following. I'm working on that but I don't believe EJ's known actions starting with the 27th, save the text message to LM of course, are inconsistent with this theory.

I'm reminded by recent posts in the Park thread such as this one that EJ mentioned giving Gabe to a couple she met in a park. I don't know why she'd say that unless she was deflecting (think BeanE mentioned this at some point) or there is a park involved somehow.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4887414&postcount=24"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The Park[/ame]


I don't believe the exact park was ever confirmed although Raymond Russell Park and Six Flags have been mentioned.

IMO, if we give any credence to this, some suggestions I have for where it fits in:

Dec. 22 after hair appt could have been an initial meeting with HG and couple in a local park

Dec. 26 EJ actually gave Gabe to the couple on that day in a park.

Note: if EJ stated that she gave Gabe to a couple she met in a park, you do not have to read that sentence to mean she ACTUALLY gave Gabe away in a park, but that she met the couple in a park. There could be truth to that, jmo.

 

[danisisa]

But, why would she call TS and say that you did this or something to that effect....

 

[Boo Scout]

But, why would she call TS and say that you did this or something to that effect....

Do we have confirmation that the phone call with TS actually happened? I know that we have news reports of it happening, but it seems like all that we really have on that phone call is TS claims as to what was said.

I know that I sound suspicious, but it seems like we'd have independent confirmation that the call happened somehow. EJ was in jail at the time so if she called from jail, there should be a record. The only other thought I saw thrown around was that she used her attorney's cell phone, but I'd be surprised by a public defender allowing her to do that.

That said, I have always been suspicious of T and JS, and I know my theory minimizes their role in Gabe's actual disappearance. I'm certainly open to ideas always.

If the call happened as TS talked about, could EJ have said those things b/c she was trying to deflect attention onto TS rather than on what really happened? Could she have been warned not to talk about it? I have to think on this more...thanks for keeping me thinking!

 

[TXHOPE]

But, why would she call TS and say that you did this or something to that effect....

TS did start this entire mess in my opinion. If it wasn't for her EJ may have never left and the court systems would of awarded LM full custody of Gabriel. So maybe when EJ said "you did this, this was all your idea" or something close to that-she meant you caused this to happen.

I think it was TS's idea to get her out of town to try and get Logan to sign off on the papers to get her back. So EJ left but she had her own plan in place in case LM wouldn't go along with it-she probably knew he wouldn't go along with it. I think she found HG online on her own or was referred to HG by someone, be it JM, a friend or family member.

 

[sleuth2001]

great work fellow sleuthers. I agree with most of the theories. I think she knows the HG because I doubt she would ride in the car with him if she didnt. She picked San Antonio for a reason and I believe he is from there with all her traveling around she did it seems it was either with someone who knew the area or someone that knew the area well enough to tell her places to go. I totally believe the laundromat theory of waching some place close to there to make sure Gabriel was ok. Yes, she is crap of a mother but I still think she had something there for him in her heart even if it did become twisted. I really think she is keeping her mouth shut to protect someone not to save herself or because she killed him. I think she knows who has him...either a friend of hers, a relative or someone close to the HG. If it were some random couple she would spill just to get herself out of as much trouble as she is in. If it truly is a random couple that was set up by HG then I think she knows HG very well too much to get him in trouble. If he was just some smuck that set her up with the couple she would squeal on him to....just my two cents.

 

[BeanE]

Boo, here's a new time for you:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4888348"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Questions for & Info from Gabe's Family **No Discussion**[/ame]

 

[pittsburghgirl]

These phone conversations that were overheard by others point, in my opinion, to an intention to give Gabriel up for adoption, rather than to murder him. She would hardly be yacking about starting a new life in front of other people if that "start" required murder. It's hard to see how she miscalculated the response to "disappearing" with Gabriel, but maybe TS and others involved in shady custody and adoption situations persuaded her that mothers "get away" (literally and figuratively) all the time. She might have also figured that being out of state made a difference. And she came pretty close to getting away with it.

 

[Boo Scout]

Boo, here's a new time for you:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Questions for & Info from Gabe's Family **No Discussion**

With the hair appointment starting at 11 a.m. on Dec. 22, and the sighting of EJ and HG on Dec. 22 with no time but in the morning,

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4891962&postcount=114"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Questions for & Info from Gabe's Family **No Discussion**[/ame]


I really believe HG picked up EJ and Gabe and dropped EJ off at that hair appt. The times fit.

EJ was talking about her new life in FL on her cell phone at the salon - thoughts on who she was talking to? TS comes to mind, but are there others ideas we could float out there - did she have any other confidants that make sense?

I also can't shake the feeling that EJ knew HG previously going back further than a few weeks. At the least maybe a relationship she'd been developing over a matter of months. MOO.

 

[CathyinTexas]

IMO. Believe there was only one couple and not multiple couples. Also believe EJ did meet with them on Dec. 24.

Which makes me wonder if this plot is NOT part of an illegal/underground adoption ring, but simply one arranged illegal adoption? Would not be a situation that dissimilar to TS and JS meeting EJ and EJ giving them Gabe.

Then I would guess that EJ either knew HG in the past, or knew someone that connected her up with HG. But I would lean toward her knowing HG directly.

Again, I think EJ started planning this right when Logan filed for custody. Maybe EJ made contact with someone that said something like "Get that baby to San Antonio and I can hook you up with someone I know that desperately wants a child and they'll pay you something for him and we can make this happen...they're good people."

Thoughts??? I know my mind is going a hundred miles a minute now.

Your theory makes sense, because there had to be a specific reason that EJ went to San Antonio. I still think it is suspicious and telling that she stayed in a hotel that is known for other young mothers giving their children up for adoption staying there as well. She still could have gotten to know this person by phone before coming, he might have been the contact person for the "agency". I also think it is highly possible that there is a lawyer involved who would make this a legit adoption. Don't lawyers have the right to keep their clients business confidential? The clients most likely would be the adoptive parents.

 

[NewMommy09]

With the hair appointment starting at 11 a.m. on Dec. 22, and the sighting of EJ and HG on Dec. 22 with no time but in the morning,

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Questions for & Info from Gabe's Family **No Discussion**


I really believe HG picked up EJ and Gabe and dropped EJ off at that hair appt. The times fit.

EJ was talking about her new life in FL on her cell phone at the salon - thoughts on who she was talking to? TS comes to mind, but are there others ideas we could float out there - did she have any other confidants that make sense?

I also can't shake the feeling that EJ knew HG previously going back further than a few weeks. At the least maybe a relationship she'd been developing over a matter of months. MOO.

BBM, I think there is a possibility that she was talking to her friend in Boston. I can't remember the girl's name right now and can't access MS from work, but she is the friend that EJ had talked about visiting on MS, and also this friend left a message on MS for EJ asking about her "NEW LIFE" and saying she was curious. JMO

ETA: I hope LE has checked her out and found out everything she knows. I'm gonna add that to the questions for the family thread.

 

[NewMommy09]

Boo Scout,
Great work on this theory. It sounds very plausible to me and everything seems to fit.
Any idea's on why she still kept talking to Tammi though? Maybe that "Kiss my azz Suckah's" message was NOT just for Logan. Maybe EJ saw that Tammi was trying to manipulate her and she enjoyed screwing her over along with Logan???

 

[Boo Scout]

Boo Scout,
Great work on this theory. It sounds very plausible to me and everything seems to fit.
Any idea's on why she still kept talking to Tammi though? Maybe that "Kiss my azz Suckah's" message was NOT just for Logan. Maybe EJ saw that Tammi was trying to manipulate her and she enjoyed screwing her over along with Logan???

Funny that you asked b/c I was just mulling over how Tammi truly fits in right before I read your post. I know there are a lot of people that believe Tammi was a mastermind of some kind in this whole thing, but I just don't see it.

That said, I haven't entirely figured out why EJ kept talking to Tammi. Brainstormed thoughts only:

- EJ kept doors open for both plans, possibly believing in a shred of possibility that Logan would change his mind due to the situation, just to get her to come back with Gabe and TS could then adopt him.

- EJ was using Tammi to somehow place blame on or cast attention away from her real plan.

- EJ and TS really did relate to each other, and EJ used TS as someone to talk to throughout this ordeal.

MOO and I'll keep thinking on this.

 

[NewMommy09]

Those are good theories.

I was also thinking, what if EJ never really intended to give Gabriel to the Smith's and was just using Tammi for idea's and information and contacts???
It would make sense that if she was trying to keep Gabriel from Logan, that she would not want him placed with a family so close to where Logan lives.

There is no basis for this line of thought, it's just a theory.

 

[Boo Scout]

Those are good theories.

I was also thinking, what if EJ never really intended to give Gabriel to the Smith's and was just using Tammi for idea's and information and contacts???
It would make sense that if she was trying to keep Gabriel from Logan, that she would not want him placed with a family so close to where Logan lives.

There is no basis for this line of thought, it's just a theory.

I'm thinking there could be something to it...I really think EJ's very smart...and I think Tammi could be susceptible to being used if EJ appealed to Tammi's obvious God complex.

 

[NewMommy09]

I'm thinking there could be something to it...I really think EJ's very smart...and I think Tammi could be susceptible to being used if EJ appealed to Tammi's obvious God complex.

I agree. Also I get the feeling that Tammi is a bit full of herself and I think it's very possible that she got so caught up in her plans and deceiving ways that she would never suspect that Elizabeth was actually the one manipulating her, instead of the other way around.
Where as with Elizabeth, I think her background taught her not to trust people easily, and I'm not convinced that she was Tammi's puppet, more likely, she just played the part.

 

[Litlred]

I'm thinking EJ partially hatched her crazy idea between her 4 hour meeting with TS at her mobile home and while she was in jail on 12/9/09. She started her SA prep work when she got out of jail and was good to go by the time she asked to borrow G-Pa's car. Who knows she might have talked to someone or gotten a tip in jail about who to meet in SA. Just a thought.

 

[DairyGirl]

I'm thinking EJ partially hatched her crazy idea between her 4 hour meeting with TS at her mobile home and while she was in jail on 12/9/09. She started her SA prep work when she got out of jail and was good to go by the time she asked to borrow G-Pa's car. Who knows she might have talked to someone or gotten a tip in jail about who to meet in SA. Just a thought.

I don't think EJ was in jail over the 12/9/09 incidence. Does anyone know?

 

[Litlred]

I don't think EJ was in jail over the 12/9/09 incidence. Does anyone know?

Good point. I assumed since she was arrested. Isn't filing a false police report a felony requiring prints and mugshot? I will have to do some digging. Ty

 

[Kamille]

I think TPS was originally EJ's plan A but she became plan B after TPS was exposed to LM and LE when they went to her house when she had Gabriel. I think at that point EJ knew the only way that TPS could adopt him would be if LM agreed because he then knew who she was and where she lived.

Everything after that, prior to EJ leaving for SA, was TPS's attempts to help EJ gain full custody of Gabriel so that she could pretty much do what she wanted with him and EJ went along with that plan.

But she probably had the SA plan already in the works for if and when TPS's plan to gain full custody didn't pan out. When that didn't happen, EJ was gone the next day.

Staying in touch with TPS kept an opening for plan B. She pretty much told TPS (well according to her anyway) that if she could get LM to sign the papers and agree to the adoption she'd bring him back. If TPS had just worked with LM and LE and lied to EJ I think she might have brought him back and cancelled plan A. I think she may have preferred that option since it was all legal and she could get on with her life without hiding.

MOO

 

[NewMommy09]

Good point. I assumed since she was arrested. Isn't filing a false police report a felony requiring prints and mugshot? I will have to do some digging. Ty

Well in her arrest documents for this case it does list her as having previous charges against her for making a false police report etc. related to the Dec. 9th incident. But it doesn't state if she was physically arrested or not. I would assume so, but you know what they say....