Theory Thread - What happened at Pistorius' house on the night of Feb. 13, 2013?

[JudgeJudi]

SA Super Sleuth still convinced Oscar Pistorius is guilty

Brigadier Piet Byleveld is a retired South African Police officer and is undoubtedly one of the best detectives our country has ever seen. Listen as he sticks to his original verdict that it was premeditated murder and questions the sequence of events that led up to the fateful moment before 4 shots were fired through Oscar Pistorius’ bathroom door, killing Reeva Steenkamp.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su83BE8eCQE

As stated up-thread, this is exactly my opinion too ... premeditated murder.

 

[fox1lady]

Last night I had a dream that seemed so real I had to write about it. It doesn't make any sense to the facts, I think it's just a mish mash of what I've read from here late into the night.

In my dream there was a scenario of Reeva and Oscar in the kitchen upset because Oscar didn't seem to have had anything for her so she was kinda fishing and joking around trying to see if he was going to do anything with her maybe the next day. When it became evident that no plans had been made she got a little upset but didn't say anything. The table was set and food put down and they started to eat but she wasn't very hungry so left it. Sometime later she called him out on it saying that it was their first VD together and he hadn't put any effort into celebrating it. She went upstairs and left him downstairs eating his food.

There must have been a break in my sleep because the next scenario I remember is where she said something that he didn't like and then it escalated into into a tit for tat type argument. It got worse and accusations were being thrown around about her supposed infidelities, he accused of her sleeping with her ex and also of having relationships with guys from Tropika (whatever that programme was called) especially accusing her of having an affair with Da LES whom he got really personal about. She started defending this guy and Oscar got more and more angry and began calling her derogatory names, she was horrified and then got off the bed and went to pack up her things and they were still arguing whilst she was doing that. She went to get the jeans that had been drying in the bathroom and went to put them on but he dragged them out of her hand and told her she wasn't leaving.

A fight broke out and he she reached for the cricket back for protection and held it as though she was going to hit him. She picked up her phone from the side of the bed and said that she was going to call the police if he didn't let her go. He lunged for her knocking her phone out of her hand, she swung the bat and hit the side of his head then threw it and ran for the door. He was raging at this point and went for his gun. She opened the bathroom window to try to escape but saw him coming with the gun so she ran into the toilet. He was coming after her shouting for her to get out of his house and get out of the toilet. She tried to calm him down but he was beyond furious. From there they were arguing through the door and he was shouting and asking her why she was going to call the police, what was she going to say. He told her that no-one would believe anything she said anyway because he was Oscar and no-one ever gets anything to stick, that the police wouldn't believe her. He said that even if he shot her now, no-one would believe her, that he could say that he thought it was an intruder and that would be it. He told her that he would carry on his life and everyone would just forget that she existed. She heard him take the safety catch off the gun and began to panic, she shouted for help and he just said that no-one could hear her, no-one could help her, she cried for help again and he just laughed, he said you need to shout louder than that if you want help and he started shouting it himself. "maybe someone would hear you if you shouted that loud, but still noone would come to help you". At this point she was beside herself and starting backing up to hide but realised there was nowhere to hide, she was begging him she was screaming really loudly, he was telling her to shut up or he'll shoot but she just kept screaming, ...................
In the next scene I remember, he was shouting for her to get down or he'll shoot, she got down from the toilet seat and slipped and her foot kicked the magazine rack slightly, he thought she was opening the window to escape and he instantly shot, he heard more really loud screaming and then what he thought was a click on the window he kept shooting and then he heard nothing more and he stopped. He stood quiet for a while and it was silent, he wondered if she had escaped out of the window so ran to the balcony so he could check. He looked for a while but saw nothing, he went back to the bathroom and realised that Reeva must still be in there, that's when he realised what he had done and started screaming and shouting for help and praying etc. He kicked at the door and I woke up...

And here I am again reading this forum... dear Lord what will I dream tonight! I don't want another like last night as I woke up way too panicked and scared.

 

[JudgeJudi]

My theory is that the call to security is a mistake. I think he was trying to call Johan Stander back (after the NetCare call) and hit the wrong number in his contacts. When he got through, he realised his mistake, was silent and disconnected. His following call was to VoiceMail. I think this was deliberate, to check if Stander had called him back. He then gets the follow-up call from Baba and replies "Everything is fine", hoping that is the end of things .... not realising that Baba is in fact sitting outside his house. Notice how he turns his phone off immediately after this call ... it has thrown him.

All a theory, and if you'd like to help prove (or otherwise) it, try and decipher the name associated with the security number that he stored in his phone. I'm thinking it reads "6797" followed by a blob, indicating it's in his Contacts list, and the name begins with a 'J' or possibly and 'I', making it close alphabetically to "Johan Silverwoods", which is how he stored Johan Stander in his Contacts.

I think it may have been the name of someone in security that he was given when he first bought his house in Silverwoods. Perhaps something like "Jan Pretorius".

Here's the security name (on the right) from the phone usage chart call card. The name is as stored in his Contacts (very fuzzy):

View attachment 57633

Or see the original phone usage evidence here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMPYfZFquM0 @ about 31:45 onwards (watch for the call card above appearing as Moller hovers over the call). Notice also the format of the names on the left hand side (e.g. # Peet, # Johan Silverwoods, etc).

Could it be Justin Divaris because OP did ring him.

 

[AJ_DS]

Perhaps she didn't hear enough to add support to the case for Prosecution.

On this point, I found Roux's position about the uncalled State witnesses quite amateurish and lacking in credibility.

This is not Masipa's first rodeo and Roux is a senior advocate…

… they both know very well how the Judicial process works and that the State is not only, not obligated to bring forth any and all witnesses who may have something to contribute but that they never do so.

 

[Sherbert]

I know… apologies.

I vow to never again post about or reply to post concerning PPD.

Awww...really? All that making up and breaking up had me right on the edge of my seat...I could hardly wait for the next instalment...

 

[Jake18]

"The State also did not call the person who was employed by Dr and Mrs Stipp, Ms Makwanazi, as a witness, as she would also not have supported the State’s case"

This begs the question - why didn't the defence call her? All the defence's witnesses were cr*p, so there must have been a very compelling reason why Roux didn't call her.

Maybe her recount would have been helpful but Nel was worried how she'd fare under Roux's cross examination - he was pretty ruthless to those who did testify but they were able to stand steadfast and not crumble. Maybe - and I'm not trying to be offensive - he thought a black domestic worker would be intimidated by an educated, male, aggressive, forceful, white lawyer. It's not how the world *should* work but IMO Roux was very bullying and sometimes downright dishonest ("We have evidence that Oscar sounds like a woman when he screams" etc) to the State's witnesses. This was in contrast to Nel, who realised that the DT's witnesses didn't damage his case and so largely left them alone.

 

[Sherbert]

To me this is quite different from the present case. Firstly, a knife is not a gun and gunshot wounds are far more likely to kill, and he was using hollow point bullets designed to cause maximum damage. Secondly, whoever was in OP's toilet, they were in a very small room with the door closed. Even if the bullets didn't hit her directly, there was every chance they'd ricochet, and that was the reason OP gave for not firing a warning shot into the bathroom ... it might ricochet and hit him. Thirdly, he fired 4 shots, not one single stab with a knife. Fourthly, according to Prof Saayman, he would have been very surprised if she didn't scream after she was shot in the hip, the first shot. Fifthly, he'd been trained in the use of firearms and knew that it was unlawful to shoot unless he was under imminent attack and he had to "know your target". I rest my case.

I know - I posted the Sihlongonyane case because not only does it explore the distinction between Culpable homicide and dolus eventualis, but, also, it explains that there may be a finding of Culpable homicide where the killing is intentional but the perpetrator has a partial excuse.

Having said that, I think Sihlongonyane was jolly lucky to get CH substituted for murder, given that she ran after her sister and stabbed her twice from behind, once in the neck.

It seems to me that the Appeal Court had a lot more sympathy for the Accused than the First instance Judge who heard the oral evidence first-hand and that the crux of the matter was that, because Sihlongonyane was under the influence of alcohol, the State had not proved beyond reasonable doubt that she had subjectively foreseen that the stabbing would result in death.

What you, the State and most of us are saying is that Milady and assessors will infer from the circumstances that OP must have known that the shots would result in death.

 

[Sherbert]

Last night I had a dream that seemed so real I had to write about it. It doesn't make any sense to the facts, I think it's just a mish mash of what I've read from here late into the night.

In my dream there was a scenario of Reeva and Oscar in the kitchen upset because Oscar didn't seem to have had anything for her so she was kinda fishing and joking around trying to see if he was going to do anything with her maybe the next day. When it became evident that no plans had been made she got a little upset but didn't say anything. The table was set and food put down and they started to eat but she wasn't very hungry so left it. Sometime later she called him out on it saying that it was their first VD together and he hadn't put any effort into celebrating it. She went upstairs and left him downstairs eating his food.

Thanks for sharing fox1lady.

Certainly, I think Reeva would have cottoned onto the lack of any Valentine's Day effort on OP's part and would have been feeling pretty miffed about it.

Also, she may have read his autobiography and known that he made a big effort for Vicky Miles on Valentine's Day - 200 coloured balloons in the trees outside her house, etc.

So, things may well have blown up from there - no pun intended...

 

[Val1]

It's bothered me as well, it seems such a large piece of evidence, blood spatter above where the holster was located but largely ignored by all of those who should have been paying attention. What explanation can there be for blood in that location, and why was no one apparently asking that question?

Personally I always thought it may have something to do with the spare set of door keys kept in the drawer just below the blood spatter/marks/smudge(don't recall what it was identified as) that had been photographed during a previous interview with OP. I'm more interested in what caused the bruises RS had that had been deemed unrelated to the gunshots as per the autopsy.

 

[808]

Comic relief

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x23iwd5_oscar-on-his-way_fun

Comic relief please don't watch if offended by poor pick-up artistry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxjNa5xRubQ&list=PLpXh_xMZwi7PbsDjY5lQFYitUGxSwvEVA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfTcz9p9_J8&index=72&list=PLpXh_xMZwi7PbsDjY5lQFYitUGxSwvEVA

Orange is the new bullcrap!

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x24a9db_accidental-killers-anonymous_fun



I love these Puppet Nation clips:clap:

 

[eimajjjj]

Personally I always thought it may have something to do with the spare set of door keys kept in the drawer just below the blood spatter/marks/smudge(don't recall what it was identified as) that had been photographed during a previous interview with OP. I'm more interested in what caused the bruises RS had that had been deemed unrelated to the gunshots as per the autopsy.

I missed that. Where were the bruises found?

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Thanks for sharing fox1lady.

Certainly, I think Reeva would have cottoned onto the lack of any Valentine's Day effort on OP's part and would have been feeling pretty miffed about it.

Also, she may have read his autobiography and known that he made a big effort for Vicky Miles on Valentine's Day - 200 coloured balloons in the trees outside her house, etc.

So, things may well have blown up from there - no pun intended...

Great observation, Sherbert - it never occurred to me that Reeva may have read his autobiography.

Now that I think about it, there's a good chance she did read it.

I know if I was dating an international sports icon and SA's national hero, I'd want to know everything I could about him - what better source than his own bio?

If she did read it, I feel terribly, horribly sad that she no doubt was expecting something wonderful on Valentine’s day from the guy she loved - and he proved himself not only a selfish, thoughtless b#stard but a murderous one as well.

Previously, I had not really given the murder date a second thought, but the more we talk about Valentine’s Day possibly being the catalyst (or at least a partial catalyst), the more I’m totally convinced it was the spark that set off an escalating chain reaction to horrific tragedy.

 

[Val1]

I don't get why he had to reverse their sleeping positions to begin with, if he's on the left side of the bed, he has to walk around the end of the bed to get to the balcony doors, passing Reeva and being closest to her prone position, she has to roll over to the left of the bed to get out and to the bathroom without him hearing or seeing her, it would have all been much simpler, and at least a little believable, for him to have kept their positions where they really were, he on right, she on left. The only thing then that makes little sense is the holster on the left, but because of the blood spatter on the wall above it, he placed/tossed it there afterwards on one of his trips upstairs, why did he think that was necessary?

Perhaps if we knew just what it was that CS had heard when she went after him upstairs we'd have a better idea. She heard him wallking on the tiles and what else? Perhaps he had noticed the holster lying somewhere that he thought looked bad and just tossed it towards the bed(possibly even just in another moment of anger at the situation RS had put him in....) and she had heard it hit the wall and fall in behind the lamp? Then afterwards when he saw the pics and realized he'd tossed it to the left side started fabricating from there, I still think RS had had no plans to spend the night due to her speech the next day and that's why everything was packed and ready to go. Perhaps he had offered to follow/drive her home and then "fell asleep" while she was working on her stuff and then got all pissy when he woke up in the wee hours and she was still waiting for his escort/ride, especially after discovering that he hadn't even got her a card on a day that she'd described to the shopkeeper as being very important to him?

Yea yea, speculation. I suppose we will have to wait for the Bladegunner to come out.... :/

 

[Val1]

I missed that. Where were the bruises found?

http://www.sabc.co.za/news/a/b7b0618043374ddc87b39f45a23ba143/Steenkamp-sustained-bruising-on-her-back,-buttocks-and-breast

There were also bruises on the upper part of the right thigh that were not linked to the shooting and behind the left knee and the left shin.

 

[Val1]

"The State also did not call the person who was employed by Dr and Mrs Stipp, Ms Makwanazi, as a witness, as she would also not have supported the State’s case"

This begs the question - why didn't the defence call her? All the defence's witnesses were cr*p, so there must have been a very compelling reason why Roux didn't call her.

It's much easier to confuse and upset the other team's witnesses to make them appear less credible than to call them yourself and hope they don't go off script.

 

[Val1]

View attachment 57649

A little picture in between ....


http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/heres-johnny/photos

They could've used his own door.... like I think he did.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Originally Posted by geevee
It's bothered me as well, it seems such a large piece of evidence, blood spatter above where the holster was located but largely ignored by all of those who should have been paying attention. What explanation can there be for blood in that location, and why was no one apparently asking that question?

Personally I always thought it may have something to do with the spare set of door keys kept in the drawer just below the blood spatter/marks/smudge(don't recall what it was identified as) that had been photographed during a previous interview with OP. I'm more interested in what caused the bruises RS had that had been deemed unrelated to the gunshots as per the autopsy.

No one will ever convince me that there wasn’t a physical altercation between OP and Reeva that night.

In my view, it’s illogical and highly improbable that the evening went from discussing contracts at the dinner table, yoga and cars directly to bloody murder in a tiny toilet. Something obviously happened in between, a whole lot of increasingly tense, hostile somethings - a dangerous discovery? accusations? angry confessions?

Domestic violence normally follows a sad, predictable pattern - it almost always escalates in steps from the “minor” to “serious” to sometimes lethal.

Whatever the dispute, OP having failed to control Reeva with words (common speculation she wanted to leave), the next step would be physical control (violence). Failing to control her by physical intimidation/assault (she ran from him into the toilet) the last step for an out-of-control, narcissistic abuser is the ultimate violence - permanent control, permanent silence.

OP’s history proves he’s not afraid of confrontation, not afraid to get in people’s faces, not afraid of making threats. We know from Whatsapp messages that he was a nasty, self-absorbed control freak ... AND that Reeva was sometimes afraid of him.

It all freakin fits.

I believe any marks on Reeva’s body not directly caused by the bullets were a result of assault by OP - this would explain both the bashed bedroom door and the fine blood spatter on the wall over the bed, as well as the spatter on the carpet and duvet. SOMETHING terrible happened in that bedroom FIRST.

He may have struck her head with a hard object, his fist or even his open hand (he's an extremely powerful man), which may have caused fine blood spatter; such an initial head wound may have been forever hidden under the massive bullet hole wounds.

The physical fight could have started downstairs and worked its way upstairs - Estelle van der Merwe did testify to hearing the argument come and go, get louder, softer, etc. (as did Mrs. Stipp, I believe) ... that’s indicative of people moving around (and much of what’s heard/not heard depends on any open doors/windows, of which OP's house had many that hot night).

IF small blood spatters around the house were indeed caused by a physical fight, OP was practically forced to later carry her body downstairs to camouflage those already pre-existing blood spatters downstairs, on the stairs and in the bedroom.

 

[vansleuths]

On this point, I found Roux's position about the uncalled State witnesses quite amateurish and lacking in credibility.

This is not Masipa's first rodeo and Roux is a senior advocate…

… they both know very well how the Judicial process works and that the State is not only, not obligated to bring forth any and all witnesses who may have something to contribute but that they never do so.

BIB.

I think Roux is doing everything possible to defend OP to the best of his ability. I haven't finished reading the defence's full heads of arguments, but in terms of lacking credibility, Roux does reference case law regarding the responsibilities of the PT so he does have some backing to his arguments.

Below is just a small snippet from the heads of arguments on this subject and Hilton Botha

It is also significant that the State was very selective in calling witnesses,
so as to endeavour to avoid known conflicts in the State’s case. This
was contrary to the principle that the State must act without fear, favour
or prejudice. Rather than promote the interests of justice, it did a
disservice to that which should have served the interests of justice.

It is unfair to expect the Accused to call police witnesses, who made
statements as State witnesses, as in such event, the Accused will be
forced to assume the risk that such witnesses may accommodate the
State in cross-examination.
54. An adverse inference may be drawn if a witness is available and
relevant, and he/she is not called. In this instance, where witnesses were
available and able to elucidate the facts for the State, which was
absolutely necessary in view of the conflicts in the State’s case, the
State’s failure to call those witnesses justifies the inference concerning a
fear that such evidence might expose facts unfavourable to or might
even damage the State’s case1
.
55. The law is clear. The party on whom the onus rests (the State) may find
that a failure to call a witness creates the risk that the onus will become
decisive2
in which event the State, bearing the onus, might not be able to convince a Court that it has discharged the onus3
.

 

[Mr Fossil]

second word could be Pretoria, first word unlikely beginning with a J as the J in that font drops below the baseline. assuming op entered contacts as first name / surname and are sorted 'applestyle' [by surname] Pretoria could be close in the contacts to his brother's card.

but my real point is that this is an emergency where every second counts, having been told about the urgency of taking the body to hospital [in his version], he should be picking the body up immediately, not spending the next minute and a half thinking about who to call next.

Thanks

BIB1 Sorting of Contacts can be by first name or second name, depends on the option you choose. I use first name on my personal phone.

BIB2 His brother is recorded in his Contacts as "Deco"

BIB3 He shouldn't be moving Reeva at all, but I agree, by his version ("don't wait for ambulance") he should be getting on with moving her not phoning again, but he had embarked on a different course of action IMO. As I said, I think the call to security was a mistake, he meant to check where Stander was.

 

[Mr Fossil]

Perhaps if we knew just what it was that CS had heard when she went after him upstairs we'd have a better idea. She heard him wallking on the tiles and what else? Perhaps he had noticed the holster lying somewhere that he thought looked bad and just tossed it towards the bed(possibly even just in another moment of anger at the situation RS had put him in....) and she had heard it hit the wall and fall in behind the lamp? Then afterwards when he saw the pics and realized he'd tossed it to the left side started fabricating from there, I still think RS had had no plans to spend the night due to her speech the next day and that's why everything was packed and ready to go. Perhaps he had offered to follow/drive her home and then "fell asleep" while she was working on her stuff and then got all pissy when he woke up in the wee hours and she was still waiting for his escort/ride, especially after discovering that he hadn't even got her a card on a day that she'd described to the shopkeeper as being very important to him?

Yea yea, speculation. I suppose we will have to wait for the Bladegunner to come out.... :/

I think this was when he placed his 4949 phone (from the kitchen, where it was normally kept on charge overnight) under the towel. This was a stalling tactic to allow him to get the 0020 phone out of the house. There is carpet right up to the bathroom entrance, so that's where Carice must have heard him go.