this is my opinion of course

[ICU]

Patsy and Burke were both under the care of psychiatrists following the murder, and they still may be. I don't know about John.

JMO

I believe that is common practice that the parents seek psychiatric help after the murder of their child, Ref. the Carlie Brucia abduction, the mother was so distraught after seeing her daughters abduction on the video tape. and later hearing about the body being found, I am almost certain that she would have had to go to the morgue to identify her daughter and seeing what had been done to her. this is not something you can just forget. That is why I don’t understand how Burke could have been involved.
____________________________________________________
”He who angers you, controls you!” (unknown author)
IMO

 

[Shylock]

Shylock You said "What the majority of us agree on is that there was nobody in the house that night except the four members of the Ramsey family." Don't forget the intruder.

One of these day you just might figure out that there was NO intruder. There has never been any CONCLUSIVE evidence of an intruder, and there never will be. That's why the Ramseys are, have always been, and will always be, the PRIME suspects.

 

[Shylock]

Why isn't Burke in a psychiatric ward, do you have any idea what a murder like this could do to the mind of a nine year old boy? Have you ever known a nine year old boy keeping a secret? never mind a secret murder, He would have to brain dead.

If Burke was involved, he has been totally brainwashed since the early morning hours of the crime. Besides writing the ransom note to point the crime outside the house, the ransom note could have also been written to convince Burke that he ultimately was not responsible for JonBenet's death.

This may be why Burke asks, "What did you find?" on the 911 tape. Burke knew he hurt JB the night before - and he was told she would be alright. And now there was something proving she was alright and that someone else was involved in what would eventually be discovered that day.

 

[Barbara]

I'm sorry I do not believe that I said anything about a child sex ring.

But DNA is interesting, What did they try to match FW's DNA to? What was on the body, that did not belong to JonBenet other than the ligerture and tape? They tried to match what piece of evidence that they thought had DNA on it? You have me very curious about that. I know that it is almost impossible to go into a room and not leave DNA there, We are DNA shedders from the time we are born to the time we die, it is like a paper trail of our lives. FW’s DNA must have been all over the house, including the Basement. Now that is really strange about FW’s DNA not being found on her, considering that even if she walked to the basement she should have picked up some of his DNA. What is your thoughts on that? I can not believe that the maid is that good at cleaning house.
____________________________________________________
”He who angers you, controls you!” (unknown author)
IMO

You can't be seriously asking about "what DNA". If you are, you need to go back to reading about this case before you can post on any forum with any sort of opinion. You seem to have very strong opinions about Fleet White which are now null and void, as would be all your opinions if you truly are telling the truth about not knowing anything about DNA. With all due respect of course.

You may not have used the exact words child sex ring, but in one of your anti Fleet posts, you mentioned the California incidents (again, not exact words). The only thing supposedly that happened in California was not very flattering regarding Fleet, but those who like to use that in bashing Fleet conveniently forget that John Ramsey was implicated as well.

 

[twilight]

When reading any good detective novel, there is usually some reference to 'that smell' that all homicide detectives know so well. What I'm wondering, and would be curious to know if any of you could supply, is the time it takes for a body to start to smell? Is it possible that French, and White could have toured the area of the storage room and not smelt the body? What about later when John opened the door?

 

[ICU]

One of these day you just might figure out that there was NO intruder. There has never been any CONCLUSIVE evidence of an intruder, and there never will be. That's why the Ramseys are, have always been, and will always be, the PRIME suspects.

Shylock, What kind of proof would you need if the intruder used a key to let himself in? and has already been in the house before, leaving his prints and DNA allover the place, How could anyone know if an intruder came into the house? the keystone cops were looking for breaking and entering, now to them that is an intruder, If the intruder used a key would that make him an intruder if he came in uninvited? Why is that so hard to understand?
__________________________________________
”He who angers you, controls you!”
IMO

 

[ICU]

When reading any good detective novel, there is usually some reference to 'that smell' that all homicide detectives know so well. What I'm wondering, and would be curious to know if any of you could supply, is the time it takes for a body to start to smell? Is it possible that French, and White could have toured the area of the storage room and not smelt the body? What about later when John opened the door?

The pungent smell of rotting flesh, could take a while, depending on how cold it was in the basement. However if you are talking about the poetic license of the detective in his instinct says “I can smell death in the air”. He would have to have a real good sense of smell, But death does have a smell about it that makes it unique to any other smell. There is just something about it that you can never forget.
______________________________________________
”He who angers you, controls you!” (unknown author)
IMO

 

[ICU]

This is my last posting on the JonBenet case, it has been a pleasure discussing the intricate parts of this mystery, some of you must have a sense of relief that I will not be drudging up the intruder again, but I have not heard any convincing evidence that the Ramseys are responsible for the death of their child.

I will be flying out to the UK. tomorrow, where I will be attending a meeting with some of my colleges to discuss some cold cases. I will return sometime in the future to buzz you again.
Regards: ICU

____________________________________________________
”He who angers you, controls you!” (unknown author)
IMO

 

[Shylock]

Shylock, What kind of proof would you need if the intruder used a key to let himself in? and has already been in the house before, leaving his prints and DNA allover the place, How could anyone know if an intruder came into the house? the keystone cops were looking for breaking and entering, now to them that is an intruder, If the intruder used a key would that make him an intruder if he came in uninvited? Why is that so hard to understand?

Just because "anything is possible" what you wrote could have happened however bizarre the chances. But you need to expand on the theory from there, because right now it doesn't work too well with the pineapple and the ransom note.

 

[little1]

Just because "anything is possible" what you wrote could have happened however bizarre the chances. But you need to expand on the theory from there, because right now it doesn't work too well with the pineapple and the ransom note.

BUt has the Ransom note been DEFINETELY linked to PR? Are they saying now that she DEFINETELY wrote the note?

 

[Shylock]

BUt has the Ransom note been DEFINETELY linked to PR? Are they saying now that she DEFINETELY wrote the note?

It's the old game of "dueling experts" which is why you should view the evidence and make up you own mind.

It should be noted however that NO expert is willing to say Patsy POSITIVELY DIDN'T write the note. They leave themselves an "out" by saying there is a "low possibility" that she wrote it.
On the other hand, the experts that say Patsy DID write it also say they are "100 percent sure" she wrote it.

 

[little1]

Does anyone have any other GOOD books to recommend to me. The more I read this book PMPT, the more I think that PR was involved. I also think that JR was involved, I don't know if he had any hand in the staging or whatnot. I also believe, though too, that Fleet was involved somehow. He was being WAY to involved, always putting his nose in---in most cases, that usually indicates involvement. (I know some on here think of FW as Jesus reincarnate--but does anyone really KNOW anything about this man? His background, etc?)
Anyway, just wanted some feedback, going to buy some more books this weekend. (I bought 4 last week and am working on ALL right now)

 

[Toltec]

A complete 180???

I recommend reading the NE book which is an interrogation of both John and Patsy Ramsey. They get caught in lie after lie.

IMO

 

[Shylock]

Does anyone have any other GOOD books to recommend to me.

You should read Steve Thomas' book so you know what went on between the police and the DA's office. Then you will know why this case was never solved.

 

[BlueCrab]

It's the old game of "dueling experts" which is why you should view the evidence and make up you own mind.

It should be noted however that NO expert is willing to say Patsy POSITIVELY DIDN'T write the note. They leave themselves an "out" by saying there is a "low possibility" that she wrote it.
On the other hand, the experts that say Patsy DID write it also say they are "100 percent sure" she wrote it.

Shylock, not quite. Several of the CBI's handwriting examiners were certain Patsy didn't write the ransom note. Also, please remember that the six examiners used by the CBI who concluded as a group there was a very low probability that Patsy wrote it, all had the ORIGINAL ransom note to work with.

None of Darnay Hoffman's examiners had the original note to work with, which was a significant liability.

Edwin F. Alford, Jr, private examiner: "Examination of the questioned handwriting and comparison with the handwriting specimens submitted has failed to provide a basis for identifying Patricia Ramsey as the writer of the letter."

Richard Dusak, document analyst for the U.S. Secret Service, concluded there was no evidence that Patsy wrote the note.

JMO

 

[little1]

A complete 180???

I recommend reading the NE book which is an interrogation of both John and Patsy Ramsey. They get caught in lie after lie.

IMO

No, not a complete 180, just trying to make sense of all this....it isn't easy. IMO, even if the R's were brought to trial, there would not be enough evidence to convict them. I am just not sure......

 

[Shylock]

IMO, even if the R's were brought to trial, there would not be enough evidence to convict them. I am just not sure......

You got that right. There will NEVER be enough evidence to prove which of the Ramseys caused the actual death and which just participated in the cover-up. As Asst. D.A. Pete Hoffstrum said to Steve Thomas about Patsy, "Just because she wrote doesn't mean we can prove a murder."

And in the worst case scenerio, John and Patsy could just point the finger at each other to give the Jury reasonable doubt.

I think years ago the DA should have charged both John and Patsy with "conspiracy to cover-up a murder" which they quite possibly could have proven to a jury. That would have opened the door to a whopper of a civil suit where the BPD could have sued the Ramseys for every taxpayer dollar that was spent on this investigation. It also would have kept the Ramseys from making money off JonBenet's death with their own lawsuits.

 

[little1]

I think that MOST involved in this case have made money off of it. It is sad, she was a baby! Accident, cover up, intentional, or intruder, this child's death should not have been in vain! IMO, the media had a HUGE role in screwing this case up. (kinda like OJ, please don't tell me you think that OJ is innocent?)

 

[Britt]

IMO, the media had a HUGE role in screwing this case up.

Not as huge as the Boulder Prosecutor's Office, which screwed this case up, down and sideways... and got plenty of help from the Boulder Police Department. Blaming the media here is like blaming the symptoms for the virus.

 

[little1]

Not as huge as the Boulder Prosecutor's Office, which screwed this case up, down and sideways... and got plenty of help from the Boulder Police Department. Blaming the media here is like blaming the symptoms for the virus.

Yup, you are right. I can't believe the leaks that happened in this case! It seems like both sides were very childish, and should have kept their mouths shut!