this is my opinion of course

ICU said:
Why would Pat or John use a stun gun?


Neither of the parents would have used a stun gun on JonBenet, but Burke could have, especially if he was in the company of one or more other boys. There's almost no limit to what 10-year-old boys might do in groups. If one of them comes across a stun gun, there's a good chance they'll find a way to try it out.

JMO
 
BlueCrab said:
Neither of the parents would have used a stun gun on JonBenet, but Burke could have, especially if he was in the company of one or more other boys. There's almost no limit to what 10-year-old boys might do in groups. If one of them comes across a stun gun, there's a good chance they'll find a way to try it out.

JMO

Here's an interesting re-read I'm sure? :eek:
http://www.crimelynx.com/alexrivlive.html

RIVERA: I'm sure.

Mr. HUNTER: ...who are frustrated about this.

RIVERA: Was a stun gun used to incapacitate the child and facilitate the homicide?

Mr. HUNTER: I'm not going to talk to you about matters of evidence, but I will say that the issue of stun gun was raised long ago and has been looked at thoroughly by my team.

RIVERA: And rejected?

Mr. HUNTER: The team rejects it at this point in time.

RIVERA: And so when the Ramseys...

Mr. HUNTER: Now that doesn't mean we close our minds...
 
Ivy said:
As far as the investigation goes, what difference does it make whether a stun gun was used on JonBenet? If one was, a Ramsey could have used it just as well as an intruder, especially if BlueCrab's fifth person theory is true. If one wasn't, it doesn't prove or disprove IDI or RDI either.

imo
Yup...I totally agree...it doesn't MATTER! What does MATTER is that JonBenet is not here and her parents are...hum??? :cool:
 
ICU said:
Most cases that I have read or heard about, when the mother kills her kids, they try to make up some story of kidnapping or intruder story, something simple so not to get confused when questioned. The Ramsey case has too many complexities to it.
Hello? That's exactly what Patsy (or Patsy & John) DID: they made up a kidnap/intruder story.

The only complexities this case has are the obstacles thrown between the Ramseys and law enforcement: their powerful lawyers and the chickensh*t incompetent DA's office that was intimidated by (and buds with) those powerful lawyers. Then came another lawyer hired to keep the intimidation going indefiintely.

This isn't about complexities... it's about MONEY and power. The Ramseys could afford to make the case "complex."
 
Britt said:
Hello? That's exactly what Patsy (or Patsy & John) DID: they made up a kidnap/intruder story.

The only complexities this case has are the obstacles thrown between the Ramseys and law enforcement: their powerful lawyers and the chickensh*t incompetent DA's office that was intimidated by (and buds with) those powerful lawyers. Then came another lawyer hired to keep the intimidation going indefiintely.

This isn't about complexities... it's about MONEY and power. The Ramseys could afford to make the case "complex."


"BRAVO!" Well said/posted...I agree totally FWIW; IMHO, this whole movie/picture of the R's "life" is what they wanted and benefited from ... for whatever reason(s) they (the R's) know who-what-when-where-why???:D
Surely it's a "control" thing (w/greed)...
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=control
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

control\Con*trol"\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Controlled; p. pr. & vb. n. Controlling.] [F. contr[^o]ler, fr. contr[^o]le.] [Formerly written comptrol and controul.] 1. To check by a counter register or duplicate account; to prove by counter statements; to confute. [Obs.]

This report was controlled to be false. --Fuller.

2. To exercise restraining or governing influence over; to check; to counteract; to restrain; to regulate; to govern; to overpower.

Give me a staff of honor for mine age, But not a scepter to control the world. --Shak.

I feel my virtue struggling in my soul: But stronger passion does its power control. --Dryden.

Syn: To restrain; rule; govern; manage; guide; regulate; hinder; direct; check; curb; counteract; subdue
 
BlueCrab said:
Neither of the parents would have used a stun gun on JonBenet, but Burke could have, especially if he was in the company of one or more other boys.
I have no idea how you could even think such a thing about any nine year old boy, much less about Burke Ramsey.

A stun gun does not prove the existence of an intruder but it makes it so much more likely, particularly since the parents don't own a stun gun and never have owned one.
 
Toth said:
I have no idea how you could even think such a thing about any nine year old boy, much less about Burke Ramsey.

A stun gun does not prove the existence of an intruder but it makes it so much more likely, particularly since the parents don't own a stun gun and never have owned one.

Perhaps people *think such a thing* because they read the newspapers. Sadly such cases do exist - and involving children younger than 9.
 
Toth said:
A stun gun does not prove the existence of an intruder but it makes it so much more likely, particularly since the parents don't own a stun gun and never have owned one.

The above reflects Toth's opinion only and in no way should be regarded as fact or more credible than anyone else's opinion. It is his opinion only.

The FACT is that nobody really knows for sure whether the Ramseys own or ever owned a stun gun. The FACT is that it is not official by law enforcement that a stun gun was even used.

The official reports by law enforcement do not state the use of a stun gun. Until that happens, there was no stun gun.
 
Toth said:
I have no idea how you could even think such a thing about any nine year old boy, much less about Burke Ramsey.
Give it up Toth, this wouldn't be the first time a kid under 10 years old did something that took another child's life.
 
Shylock said:
Give it up Toth, this wouldn't be the first time a kid under 10 years old did something that took another child's life.


That's right, kids under 10, especially when in a group, can cause a lot of damage and pain. It doesn't nearly approach murder of course, but a couple of weeks ago in my town three 9-year-old boys broke into a neighbor's house during the day and totally demolished the inside, causing thousands of dollars in damage. All three are being charged in criminal court as adults.

JMO
 
Trino said:
This is from another posting re: missing. Contrast the way these parents are reacting vs. Patsy and John. Whether Burke was involved or not, I feel the parents know something.
http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/4679619.html
While this article deals with how the parents of MISSING children act, I can see how parents of MURDERED children would behave in similar fashion. The Ramseys of course, never showed any real frustration or rage that their daughter's killer wasn't being agressively hunted down. I think we all know why that is--it's pretty hard to get worked-up over a boogieman who you know doesn't exist.
 
ICU said:
That is interesting. Most cases that I have read or heard about, when the mother kills her kids, they try to make up some story of kidnapping or intruder story, something simple so not to get confused when questioned. The Ramsey case has too many complexities to it. If she were manic depression, would she be able to plan what she did?QUOTE]

Exactly. Occams Razor predicts that complex staging is too improbable to be considered a viable explanation. Our belief that this could be possible comes from watching movies or reading books that suggest hidden subterfuge. Add to it magazines or newspapers that engage in what if or conspiracy speculation. Few people have been directly involved in who-dunits or crime dramas and thus don't know how they work in real life.
 
BlueCrab said:
That's right, kids under 10, especially when in a group, can cause a lot of damage and pain. It doesn't nearly approach murder of course, but a couple of weeks ago in my town three 9-year-old boys broke into a neighbor's house during the day and totally demolished the inside, causing thousands of dollars in damage. All three are being charged in criminal court as adults.

JMO

This is incredible, now we agree that not only one intruder but a group of intruders, Burks friends climbed through the basement window that evening and went to JonBenet’s room to use a stun gun on her, drag her unconscious body down to the basement, use duct tape and tie her hands, then strangle her to death, not to mention hit her on the head with a blunt instrument, after that leave through the window again, said good night boys Merry Christmas oh and by the way thanks Burk for the good time, ya and don’t forget to write the ransom note about us kidnapping your sister.
____________________________________________________
”He who angers you, controls you!” (unknown author)
IMO
 
Toth said:
I have no idea how you could even think such a thing about any nine year old boy, much less about Burke Ramsey.

A stun gun does not prove the existence of an intruder but it makes it so much more likely, particularly since the parents don't own a stun gun and never have owned one.

You know Toth, what I find amazing about all this is that the whole family have to be
Murderers to explain the death of the child, how convenient, open and shut case, why do we need investigators at all, just say they all killed the child. It is a good thing that the Ramseys did not have guest staying over or they would all be accused of have been involved with the death of the child. With this kind of thinking, all you need do is arrest and execute whom ever was in the house, that way how can you miss? That was the way the German Secret police did it.

____________________________________________________
”He who angers you, controls you!” (unknown author)
IMO
 
Barbara said:
The above reflects Toth's opinion only and in no way should be regarded as fact or more credible than anyone else's opinion. It is his opinion only.

The FACT is that nobody really knows for sure whether the Ramseys own or ever owned a stun gun. The FACT is that it is not official by law enforcement that a stun gun was even used.

The official reports by law enforcement do not state the use of a stun gun. Until that happens, there was no stun gun.


For once I agree with you Barbara. Why would a man whom lives in an almost crime free neighborhood have a need for a stun gun in the first place? Now if he lived in the bad part of town maybe. This sort of crime is usually unheard of in the sleepy towns of Colorado where the rich reside. That is why I see a bad seed there, someone with a vengeance. Sorry I had to say that, I could not resist.

____________________________________________________
”He who angers you, controls you!” (unknown author)
IMO
 
Shylock said:
Give it up Toth, this wouldn't be the first time a kid under 10 years old did something that took another child's life.

Shylock That is true about kids killing kids, and that is usually because they are trying to impress there friends with how bad they can be, and it escalates. Now how many kids do you think were in the house at the time of the murder?

____________________________________________________
”He who angers you, controls you!” (unknown author)
IMO
 
vicktor said:
ICU said:
That is interesting. Most cases that I have read or heard about, when the mother kills her kids, they try to make up some story of kidnapping or intruder story, something simple so not to get confused when questioned. The Ramsey case has too many complexities to it. If she were manic depression, would she be able to plan what she did?QUOTE]

Exactly. Occams Razor predicts that complex staging is too improbable to be considered a viable explanation. Our belief that this could be possible comes from watching movies or reading books that suggest hidden subterfuge. Add to it magazines or newspapers that engage in what if or conspiracy speculation. Few people have been directly involved in who-dunits or crime dramas and thus don't know how they work in real life.

Vicktor, the note was not all that complex, and I can not for the life of me understand why all the sleuths here on this site make it so, Pat and John would have to be morons to write it, and I do not mean stupid, I mean dumb down in there thinking, that was not written by them, anyone with a notion of how young teenagers or Pedophiles talk can see that Pedophiles think like teenagers, how else do you think they are so successful in their hits.

____________________________________________________
”He who angers you, controls you!” (unknown author)
IMO
 
One reason I try to keep the stun gun theory alive is because there's a remote possibility a stun gun could have been the murder weapon. The large injury on the right side of JonBenet's face near the ear, if a stun gun injury, could have been from a prolonged stun gun hit (such as 10 seconds or more) that paralyzed her respiratory muscles and killed her by asphyxia.

JMO

Linda the housekeeper and her husband

This theory is in line with many homicide detectives (including retired ones) theory that Linda the housekeeper and her husband committed the crime. Linda probably thought the girl would be released unharmed.

Note: The police did find a stun gun at their residence. Linda and her husband provided alibis for each other.
 

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